<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Best way to use Plasma with IG?"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Best way to use Plasma with IG?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Best way to use Plasma with IG?
Other than that, I don't see any other good uses for them as they're expensive and tend to just miss, or even worse, melt the guy using it. Am I missing some other option here, or are Plasma guns really not that useful for IG? I'm not deadset on using them, but I do feel its kind of a waste to have them just sit in my case every game while the melta guns get to have all the fun. If you guys know of any other good uses for them I'm all ears.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110577.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? MEQ in the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110631.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? CC unless I was using one squad to destract from another squad with plasmas!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110685.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110685.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?
I often take a couple of special weapon squads with x3 plasma. Hide them behind your bigger squads!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110700.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?
195 points for 21 stubborn Ld9 bodies that pump out 7 plasma shots out to 18" isn't that bad, especially for a scoring unit. Compare to an executioner to see my point.

Plus, the blob can also take orders, which means that they can put out 7 twin-linked shots against monstrous creatures and vehicles. Plus, against non-vehicular targets you also get the lasguns which, if they're also twin-linked (or FRFed) are also good for a wound or two that sticks.

In the case of a trygon suddenly appearing out of nowhere, a properly-ordered 21-man plasma blob puts down 4 wounds that stick just by itself, and is still on a big, stubborn scoring unit. Not too shabby really.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110752.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110752.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Jihadnik wrote:I love my plasma, but why are you charging your guard in the first place? Hey if it works for you, then more power, but I'd never deliberately charge them into CC unless I was using one squad to destract from another squad with plasmas!

I've been using "power blobs" lately, especially for big games, because I only own a couple of tanks. One of their main uses believe it or not, is for charging things. Not dedicated assault units mind you, but things like small marine squads, other guard units, etc. They're mainly used for shooting, but no one expects you to charge a 30 man platoon in, so its a nice ability to have. With melta, I can for example, fire into a transport, pop it, and then charge the survivors. With plasma, I could shoot it, but that would be it. That's why I've been putting melta in the platoons, that, and it helped keep people from tank shocking me.

I have tried using a 30 man blob with power weapons, Plasma, and lascannons, and my opponent literally tried to kill it the whole game, ignoring much more dangerous squads (and a tank) in a desperate attempt to make it go away. He even deep struck terminators in to try and deal with it, only for them to get shot off the board the next turn (the captain survived and charged, only to be beaten down in CC that turn) While it worked well in this one instance, it just seemed really points heavy for what it did. I may give it another go however and see what happens, perhaps using it as a firebase to help support other platoons and hold the middle of the map while I'm at it.

I like the idea of a 21 man squad pumping out 7 plasma shots in rapid fire range, I may try that with my Al'Rahem platoon and see what happens. At the very least, it would distract the enemy from other units, and really mess up anything within range. That, or a 3 plasma special weapon squad, but that would get shot up really quick I'd imagine. I would try a few vet squads with plasma, but like I said, I own very little armor at the moment, so I can't really run them the way they're supposed to be done. I only have 1 chimera, and it pulls double duty as a griffon/manticore (magnets are awesome) so it's rarely used for transporting things.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I'm already starting to get some ideas for how I might put those plasmas back to use again!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110949.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

MrMoustaffa wrote:I have tried using a 30 man blob with power weapons, Plasma, and lascannons. While it worked well in this one instance, it just seemed really points heavy for what it did.

Yes, a 30-man las/plas power blob is ludicrously expensive. Give a lighter version a try, though. It may not cover as many bases or be as reliable, but it will certainly be easier for it to win its points back.

MrMoustaffa wrote:I like the idea of a 21 man squad pumping out 7 plasma shots in rapid fire range, I may try that with my Al'Rahem platoon and see what happens.

That's actually a really good idea. Not only does an 18" threat range from either side of the board give you a lot to work with, but al'rahem himself comes with both first rank fire and, more importantly, bring it down. Plus, you're even more likely to get side shots on vehicles.

That and don't forget that you have the windy order, which allows you to move on 6", fire with the plasma pistols, move up to 6" more and then multi-charge vehicles with a throng of frag grenades for 6" more.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4110966.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Ailaros wrote:

That and don't forget that you have the windy order, which allows you to move on 6", fire with the plasma pistols, move up to 6" more and then multi-charge vehicles with a throng of frag grenades for 6" more.

Man I didn't even think of that. There just might be something to this plasma blob thing after all... Lord knows I've got plenty of plasma pistols laying around to convert with!

I'm deffinitely going to give this a try. My last game my Al'rahem blob got creamed by Dark Eldar (they had that evil -6" range upgrade, which really screwed my meltas) and then I whiffed the "like the wind" order to get in close. If I had had plasma, my range would've still sucked, but I could've done a lot more damage than what a couple of meltas got me.

I did try 2 plasmas with Al'Rahem's squad in a chimera outflanking with the blob, and that worked very well. 5 plasma shots from the chimera, along with its weapons, made for a very scary little unit, and it fared much better than the blob. The DE still killed him, but that was more to me not knowing what DE are capable of, then the unit being bad. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4111025.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4111025.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? PCS.
The chances are quite likely that they will turn up on a side where there is a suitable target and they will always be in range for orders.

Sometimes even Alrah'hem can use his plasma pistol.

On the downside: This squad costs 150 points...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4111661.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4111661.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112059.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112059.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? plasma blob (270 w/3 plasma guns, commissar and power weapons) 6 hits, 3 hit, 2.5 wound, 2 dead.
vets(115 points) give 6 shots, 4 hits, 3.3 wounds, 2.5 dead.
So vets get an extra 0.5 kills for less than half the points to boot. I really wouldn't go with blobs if you want killy power. Plasma vets are one of, if not THE best MEQ killer in the game.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112083.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Ailaros wrote:195 points for 21 stubborn Ld9 bodies that pump out 7 plasma shots out to 18" isn't that bad, especially for a scoring unit. Compare to an executioner to see my point.

Plus, the blob can also take orders, which means that they can put out 7 twin-linked shots against monstrous creatures and vehicles. Plus, against non-vehicular targets you also get the lasguns which, if they're also twin-linked (or FRFed) are also good for a wound or two that sticks.

The rest of your suggestions I agree with, but the 'comparison' is flawed.

Plasma blobs are decent for fighting Monsterous Creatures and MSU groups, but expect casualties. There's not an IG player alive that doesn't have his plasma guns over heat and have the operator die from his whimsical +5 armor save. Brings lots of them. I liked the suggestion made with taking special weapon squads and loading them up with plasma.

I wouldn't let the Vets have them. One bad roll and they'll be taking a morale check from their own shooting if you're not careful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112799.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Joey wrote:Assuming you can get Fire On My Target off....
plasma blob (270 w/3 plasma guns, commissar and power weapons) 6 hits, 3 hit, 2.5 wound, 2 dead.
vets(115 points) give 6 shots, 4 hits, 3.3 wounds, 2.5 dead.
So vets get an extra 0.5 kills for less than half the points to boot. I really wouldn't go with blobs if you want killy power. Plasma vets are one of, if not THE best MEQ killer in the game.

Oh yeah deffinitely. Plasma vets are stupid good for their cost. However, you can't outflank them quite as easily (unless you've got creed, a vendetta/valkyrie, or harker) whereas with al'rahem you can outflank a platoon. Add in the extra lasgun shots if it's infantry, as well as the extra bodies for charging, soaking up wounds, etc. and it just might be effective. i'll have to give it a try next time and see how it does. It may be awesome, or it may whiff terribly.

That said, i don't think I would ever use them in regular platoons. Something like that is just way too obvious and my opponent would just avoid them all game long. Although watching a marine player try to play keep away from a 50 man "death blob" armed with 5 plasma guns, and 6 or 7 plasma pistols would be pretty hilarious...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112822.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Joey wrote:Assuming you can get Fire On My Target off....
plasma blob (270 w/3 plasma guns, commissar and power weapons) 6 hits, 3 hit, 2.5 wound, 2 dead.
vets(115 points) give 6 shots, 4 hits, 3.3 wounds, 2.5 dead.
So vets get an extra 0.5 kills for less than half the points to boot. I really wouldn't go with blobs if you want killy power. Plasma vets are one of, if not THE best MEQ killer in the game.

Al Rahem is damn useful, but people often use him to justify blobs in general...except if ALL blobs could outflank and twin-link 4 special weapons, it wouldn't be much of a contest.
A power blob with 5 plasma guns and 6 or 7 plasma pistols is going to be very expensive, and very killable.
I would agree about vets' inability to outflank, but I rarely find this an issue with plasma guns. Plasma Guns' speciality is in killing MEQ who, unless you're facing a gunline, will be charging towards you anyway. Stormies would probably be best if you really, really needed to kill some MEQ who were far away, but even then they'll be in cover.
Though if it's a super-expensive (and powerful) unit like devestators it might be worth it, points wise. I'd have to sit down and figure it out though
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112891.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Joey wrote:
Al Rahem is damn useful, but people often use him to justify blobs in general...except if ALL blobs could outflank and twin-link 4 special weapons, it wouldn't be much of a contest.
A power blob with 5 plasma guns and 6 or 7 plasma pistols is going to be very expensive, and very killable.
I would agree about vets' inability to outflank, but I rarely find this an issue with plasma guns. Plasma Guns' speciality is in killing MEQ who, unless you're facing a gunline, will be charging towards you anyway. Stormies would probably be best if you really, really needed to kill some MEQ who were far away, but even then they'll be in cover.
Though if it's a super-expensive (and powerful) unit like devestators it might be worth it, points wise. I'd have to sit down and figure it out though

All good points. My main thing is right now, I literally only have 1 chimera, so I'm looking at other ways besides the tried and true plasma vets/chimera strat. The other thing I think you would get out of a plasma blob would be the plasma is much more spread out. Instead of having 3 guys with plasma guns, you have 4. That way, when you lose one to overheat (note I said when not if

) it hurts less, as you'll still have other men with plasma. It's not a huge difference, but little things like that i've noticed can be very handy.

As for the guy who asked for a list, I just threw this together to get an idea. It's not very optimised, but I have to drive across Kentucky in a few minutes, so I'll edit it some more when I get back

EDIT: First list is kind of what I normally run with plasma shoehorned in. It's not too strong. The second one was me going nuts and trying to put plasma in wherever I thought I could put it. It's a bit more... interesting... I'll give it that much. Would definitely make for a fun match though...

Spoiler:

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112983.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4112983.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? You do NOT need chimeras for plasma vets to work. Sure they're delicate, but they will rip MEQs a new hole like anyone's business, and with Bring It Down they can pretty reliably take out light armour too (plus avoiding those pesky Gets Hot! rolls).
If you do go for unmeched vets, stick voxes on them to make sure your orders get through. Also depending on who you fight, Forward Sentries may very well be beneficial. People say unmeched guard die quickly, but not with a 2+ cover save they don't (go to ground in enemy shooting phase - > Back in the fight in your turn). Or if you don't fancy risking it (or wasting an order) then a 3+ cover safe will suffice.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113200.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113200.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Joey wrote:So vets get an extra 0.5 kills for less than half the points to boot.

For much less than half the durability. Plasma blobs come with 21 stubborn Ld9 rerollable models. Plasma vets lose a couple of dudes and they're running off the table, an easy-to-kill amount more and they're just wiped out straight away.

KplKeegan wrote:The rest of your suggestions I agree with, but the 'comparison' is flawed.

Plasma blobs are decent for fighting Monsterous Creatures and MSU groups, but expect casualties.

Well... so? The plasma blob is taking casualties regardless of if they cause them themselves. An executioner may not have overheats, but it's far from invincible.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Although watching a marine player try to play keep away from a 50 man "death blob" armed with 5 plasma guns, and 6 or 7 plasma pistols would be pretty hilarious...

yes, yes it would be. To be fair, they'd already be running away from a smaller plasma power blob.

Joey wrote:A power blob with 5 plasma guns and 6 or 7 plasma pistols is going to be very expensive, and very killable.

You think 51-man power blobs are "very killable"? I'd like to hear some justification for this. I know you tried in a different thread, but there wasn't any math or data points, just assertion.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113506.page GMT Re:Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Good advice for all things IG]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113519.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113519.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Ailaros wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:The rest of your suggestions I agree with, but the 'comparison' is flawed.

Plasma blobs are decent for fighting Monsterous Creatures and MSU groups, but expect casualties.

Well... so? The plasma blob is taking casualties regardless of if they cause them themselves. An executioner may not have overheats, but it's far from invincible.

Unless your blob is scuttling around with Al'Raheem or Creed, they'll either be too slow getting into range or simply chewed up before they can make any serious dents. The Executioner is not invincible yes (but AV 14 is nothing to slouch at), but boasting twice the threat range and having the option to shoot five plasma cannon blasts at range can inflict more wounds and pressure than 15 angry wounds protecting 6 Plasma Weapons walking towards the enemy.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113799.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

KplKeegan wrote:Unless your blob is scuttling around with Al'Raheem or Creed, they'll either be too slow getting into range or simply chewed up before they can make any serious dents.

I don't know, I've spent a lot of time running power blobs, and they did just fine despite only having a 12" threat range. Having the ability to have an 18"-24" threat range with shooting is practically a luxury.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113941.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4113941.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Ailaros wrote:

Joey wrote:So vets get an extra 0.5 kills for less than half the points to boot.

Back To The Fight means you have to kill 7 of them before they become useless. And with 2+ cover save they're very tricky to kill at range. And if you're being charged, it means you get a volley of plasma guns at them first.
You think 51-man power blobs are "very killable"? I'd like to hear some justification for this. I know you tried in a different thread, but there wasn't any math or data points, just assertion.

51 man power blob with plasma guns is 250+60+75+35=420 points.
Chaplain+ 16 DC=420
DC do 64 attacks, 56 hit, 47 wound, 31 dead. The Chaplain's attacks cause 2.2 dead.
That's 32 dead after the first round of combat. Difficult to tell how many attacks the IG would get back. Presumably spread out to minimise template risk, they may not get more than 20 or so troops into the fray during the first turn, and they'll have to get through Power Armour and FNP.
They'd probably finish them off the turn after.

And you can forget about your PW sargents being any use - a 51 man blob squad takes up a huge area. You'll have to put your PW troops somewhere and it's easy for your enemy to simply charge you further away from the nearest PW model. You might get your attacks the second turn if you still have a few of them around.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4114934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4114934.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Joey wrote:
A power blob with 5 plasma guns and 6 or 7 plasma pistols is going to be very expensive, and very killable.

That would be more for a fun game than anything haha. I don't think I'd ever run that in a serious game, unless I just wanted to be a jerk to someone (outflanking 56 guardsmen with as much plasma as they can carry? Yeah, that wouldn't get you kicked out at all

)

I've thought about using vet's with plasma as a firebase type deal, say having one or 2 squads with lascannons to camp by the CCS and keep people away from the middle of the board, so they'll go near the edge (so they can get Al'Rahem'd) and I think that might be a good use for them. I guess if you give them forward sentries, you could also run a squad of plasma vets up behind a blob to give fire support while they have a 3+ cover save. Then, once they get to where they needed, you could hide them on an objective, while your blobs run around killing things. Then your opponent would have to decide between trying to kill the vets taking potshots at him with plasma, or try and kill the blobs off first. Both choices are going to end up with him loosing lots of guys, and if you combined a tactic like this with someone like Straken, who could throw "Bring it down" and "Fire on my target" on the vets, as well as the furious charge and counterattack bonuses for the blobs, it could be downright mean.

That said, I would much rather have a vendetta or Valkyrie to deepstrike them in behind enemy lines and what not. Footslogging them behind a blob, even with a 3+ cover save, just seems risky to me. I would run an executioner, but two things stop me from doing it. One, they're ridiculous fire magnets. I don't think I've ever seen one survive past turn 3, as the enemy tends to focus everything he has on them. And 2, I don't have one yet

. Hopefully number 2 will change soon though...

KplKeegan wrote:
Unless your blob is scuttling around with Al'Raheem or Creed, they'll either be too slow getting into range or simply chewed up before they can make any serious dents. The Executioner is not invincible yes (but AV 14 is nothing to slouch at), but boasting twice the threat range and having the option to shoot five plasma cannon blasts at range can inflict more wounds and pressure than 15 angry wounds protecting 6 Plasma Weapons walking towards the enemy.

I don't know if you've looked at some of Ailaros's battle reports, but he puts Chenkov to shame. He'll often field over a hundred guys in a 1500-1850 game, not counting support, and it works better than you think it would. As far as I can tell, his method of thinking is "If they have this much trouble killing one blob, imagine how much trouble they'll have killing 5!

"

Read this one and you'll see what I mean. He beats down an army of terminators with literally nothing but guardsmen, it's a pretty hilarious read http://www.ailarian.com/folera/batreps/blood-conquers-all/blood-conquers-22.html

Basically what I'm saying is, yes, one 20 man blob won't last long, but when your opponent has to focus on 4 to 5 twenty one man blobs (don't forget the commissar) along with various smaller units like PCS and stormtroopers, you'd be amazed how much staying power they have. I often only field three, and it'll take the opponent all game to kill them. That's the rationale behind this strategy. It's like how mech commanders take 6 Leman Russes and 10-12 chimeras. You literally have too many targets for the enemy to kill, aka "more bodies than they've got bullets". Now add 2 plasma guns and 3 plasma pistols to each of those blobs, and you have a Space Marine player's worst nightmare. More bodies than he can ever hope to kill, and they're all packing power weapons and AP 2...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4114945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4114945.page GMT Re:Best way to use Plasma with IG? GL and AC, commissarr with PW and PW's for the Srgs BUT I also run a 20 man blob with LC, PG and same commissarr with PW and PW's for the srgs.

I havent played too many games with my IG army AND I also try to select targets I can "Bring it down!" with my plasma guns. I have not lost an IG to "gets hot" yet.
Each PG guardsman ends up with a 5.56% of death from Gets Hot

Chance of initial failed roll multiplied by the chance of rolling Gets Hot on second roll (reroll from BID) multiplied by the chance of the guardsman failing his armor save
(3/6) x (1/6) x (4/6) = .0555555556 or 5.56 %

This is exactly the same as a Marine PG model (However chance of Marine death with FNP is 2.78%)
Chance of initial Gets Hot roll multiplied by chance of failed power armor save
(1/6) x (2/6) = .0555555556 % or 5.56%

If your rapid firing BID you just add the chances of the outcomes of each dice roll together which is 11.12 % chance of guardsman Death.

Dont listen to the argument either that Veterans miss less often. Yes yes a veteran will miss 33.33% of the time and a regular guardsman will miss 50% of the time, but again with BID (which your chimera plasma vets might be out of range for) your regular grunt has only a 25% chance of missing.

The last time I fielded my marine army I triggered two Gets hot back to back, one on a tac marine the other on a biker, neither had access to FNP and both failed their armor saves and died... go figure... you can never predict the madness but I love it.

~Lion~

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115358.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Joey wrote:Back To The Fight means you have to kill 7 of them before they become useless.

You're putting a lot of faith in vets passing their morale checks all the time.

Joey wrote:And with 2+ cover save they're very tricky to kill at range. And if you're being charged, it means you get a volley of plasma guns at them first.

Likewise. That and blobs can also take "incoming" orders.

Joey wrote:51 man power blob with plasma guns is 250+60+75+35=420 points.
Chaplain+ 16 DC=420

Sure, death company can beat its points in blobs easily. So can khorne berzerkers. Every unit in the game has hard counters. To say that because something is easily killable by its hard counter, it is therefore easily killable in general is false. At best, it would mean that ALL units are easily killable so long as they had a few things that were designed to kill them... which is everything.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115421.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115421.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

MrMoustaffa wrote:I don't know if you've looked at some of Ailaros's battle reports, but he puts Chenkov to shame. He'll often field over a hundred guys in a 1500-1850 game, not counting support, and it works better than you think it would. As far as I can tell, his method of thinking is "If they have this much trouble killing one blob, imagine how much trouble they'll have killing 5!

I've read all of Ailros's battle reports. They're pretty good, and he does credence to his experience when he talks about tactics. While I, unfortunately, cannot take photos or camcorders within my GW Local Gaming Store because someone was an idiot, I do respect his sharing of tactics. That said, I have alot of BA, BT, Tyranid, and Ork players that would eat a foot list like no tomorrow (A BT Deathstar of a Marshal, Chaplain, Honor Guard, and another Character ate through fifty Orks in one setting), and being an experienced Guard player, I know a couple holes in a foot list, just like their is in a Mech List.

Of course his tactics of bodies bested the Terminator list because of the sheer amount of bodies against a serious lack of firepower from the other side. Sure Terminators look scary to other MSU armies, but hordes just laugh.

I'm not saying blobs are bad, it's just that you really can't compare the potency of an Executioner to 15 Angry Wounds to protect 6 Plasma Weapons. It would be like me trying to compare a Vanquisher being as potent as Melta Vets.

Joey wrote:51 man power blob with plasma guns is 250+60+75+35=420 points.
Chaplain+ 16 DC=420
DC do 64 attacks, 56 hit, 47 wound, 31 dead. The Chaplain's attacks cause 2.2 dead.
That's 32 dead after the first round of combat. Difficult to tell how many attacks the IG would get back. Presumably spread out to minimise template risk, they may not get more than 20 or so troops into the fray during the first turn, and they'll have to get through Power Armour and FNP.
They'd probably finish them off the turn after.

Of course. It's a dedicated assault unit plowing into Guardsmen. That's one of the finer balances of Blobs, being a multi-charge pin cushion...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115624.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115624.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

KplKeegan wrote:I'm not saying blobs are bad, it's just that you really can't compare the potency of an Executioner to 15 Angry Wounds to protect 6 Plasma Weapons. It would be like me trying to compare a Vanquisher being as potent as Melta Vets.

You can compare them, though, that's in part what mathhammer is for. Certainly there are some things that can take down a plasma blob that will NEVER take down an executioner (like heavy bolters, for example), but on the other side there are things that will take down an executioner in a darn hurry that a power blob won't even blink at (like deepstriking meltaguns, any Ap1 weapon, lascannon, etc. etc.). Plus, there are a lot of things in the middle. You may talk about how quickly a big mob of khorne berzerkers can clean through a blob, but that same squad of berzerkers is ALSO going to make FC powerfist pudding out of the tank.

Plus, it's easier to get cover for infantry, and infantry can't be stun locked, and tanks never count as scoring, and tanks can't take orders, etc. There are lots of ways to compare, and in most of those cases, I'd honestly rather have the blob.

The vanquisher to meltavets is a bit stranger thing to compare, though, because a meltagun has SO much difference of ranges in their weapons.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115673.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4115673.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?

Ailaros wrote:Plus, it's easier to get cover for infantry, and infantry can't be stun locked, and tanks never count as scoring, and tanks can't take orders, etc. There are lots of ways to compare, and in most of those cases, I'd honestly rather have the blob.

That's what I like about our opinions. We're polar opposites. An Executioner isn't encumbered by terrain, invulnerable to most flame templates, almost immune to S7, not orders dependent, and can engage Death Star units/Large Elite Units at Range (Full Assault Squads with Sang Priests are not fun), and unlike infantry, cannot be locked in assault. I'd honestly rather have the tank.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4116829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4116829.page GMT Re:Best way to use Plasma with IG? btw I quite enjoy reading both sides so far and it is giving me ideas myself)

I've had fairly good results so far with a chimea vet squad with plasma and a lascannon sitting on objectives in the back. Decent range makes them a threat even at range. The las cannon can just snipe people all day with the multilaser and HB on the chimera. I sometimes toss in a heavy stubber but usually don't have the points. The plasma guys surprisingly enough has killed alot of assault marines that come to contest their objective, mow-ed down mepheston with rapid fire, and a las cannon to the face, blew up a necron doom scythe (go go armor 11 lol), taken down wraiths (just sheer number of easy to roll for wounds since it's 2+ for all the weapons on the tank and plasmas/lascannons), and a hive tyrant all in one week of play so I usually have been using 2 of these to just hold back field objectives and they sit there offering some ranged fire and often than not annoy people enough with long range sniping to get them to close enough for the melta vet tanks to come get them.

They offer close range support as far as I am concerned for big tough things that get close and I consider them my "counter charge" unit despite not being able to charge really. Also can offer additional anti-transport as 24' is decent enough to mess up alot of things. *I'm so used to str 7 psycannons at 24', it just feels "right" to me to fight vehicles around there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4117077.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4117077.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?
1. Plasma vets mounted in chimeras. (this one we all know works)

2. Stormtroopers with plasma deepstriking in

3. Running a Plasma "blob" with plasma guns and pistols on everyone that can have one, and just trying to annihilate anything within 12".

4. Plasma vets with lascannons providing fire support, with or without a chimera.

5. Plasma SWS's, either on foot or loaded up in chimera.

6. Executioner Leman Russ tank (I guess it counts, it is a plasma tank after all

)

Out of the 6, only options1, 3, 4, and 6 seem like "optimal" uses for it. Stormies are nice to have with it, but in anything over 1k points, I'd rather have melta for them. SWS's are fun and all, but keeping them alive for more than a turn or two will be a nightmare. Yes, you can hide them in a chimera, but then you're just running a poor man's plasma vet/chimera unit. Running them in blobs would be fun, but more often than not, I think melta would be the best option for them as well. That special weapon is useless if I can't assault after firing it. That said, I'm still going to try that one first, as it may just put out so many wounds that you don't need to assault anything

.

For example, in a 20 man unit, you're either getting 2 plasma pistols and 2 meltas for 4 shots at 12", or, 6 shots at 12" with 2 plasma pistols and 2 plasma gunners. (I didn't give the commissar one because knowing my luck, he'd fry himself on the first shot)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119587.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119587.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG? ST's with plasma in a chimera outflanking? You can also give the SGT a PP and thats 5 Plasma shots in a chimera which also gives you a heavy flamer or a multilaser shooting. This also allows them to move around and potentially contest objectives if they survive the initial strike.

I have also been giving PG's to my ST for deepstriking instead of meltas, its double the shots and if there are no vehicles, they can still lay into almost anything they come across. The only downside I can see would be a Landraider, or other vehicles with 14 around.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119737.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119737.page GMT Best way to use Plasma with IG?
I'm just so used to deepstriking them, I keep forgetting you can infiltrate them and outflank them as well...

Might be worth a shot, and that way if you do choose to deepstrike them, you can always give their chimera to a Plasma SWS

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/440925/4119822.page GMT