Latest posts for the thread "[Tau] 2k tourney"

[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I know this list will seem crazy to some. Just a couple head notes.

Broadsides, commander, and pathfinders are deployed. Kroot outflank. Suits deep strike. FW's and Piranhas are normal reserve.

The commander holds most of the army back until turn 3 or 4. The FW's use the pathfinder's DF's. The suits all deepstrike with re-rolls on scatter due to the DF's.

I am preparing for the Ambassdorial Tourney. I got the Tau army slot. http://www.40kambassadors.com/

++++ [HQ] ++++

Points: 71
% of Army: 3.55

Unit cost: 71
XV8 Shas'el
--- [TL Flamer, Positional relay]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Points: 613
% of Army: 30.65

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]

Unit cost: 211
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, TL Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Points: 402
% of Army: 20.1

Unit cost: 145
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 137
11x Kroot
--- [Kroot rifle]
10x Kroot Hound
--- [Fangs]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Points: 484
% of Army: 24.2

Unit cost: 150
2x Piranha
--- [Fusion blaster, 2x Gun drone, Disruption pod, Targeting array]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- []
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Points: 430
% of Army: 21.5

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]
-----------------------
Total model count: 70

I hope this format works, in case it looks bad, i am working on it to make it look better.

Thank you for looking,
Waffles

[Tau] 2k tourney

Dr. Serling — GMT

I see you are planning on abusing positional relay rules. I would still not put a TL flamer on the 'el, the BS4 is just too good to waste, give him something with some range, even if it was just swapping his gear to a random suit and the suit's gear to him.

Two pathfinder squads might be a bit much, and only 4 railguns may be a bit lacking.

Otherwise, good luck!

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Lol, abusing? i am not sure if that is a joke or not. in either case, the TL flamer on the 'el is a bit of a shame, but i needed to shave points and my HQ has to stay in back and hide for 3 out of 4 missions at the ambassadorial tournament I am attending.

The pathfinder squads I am tempted to go to squads of 4, but I want the two DF for they have the marker beacon on them. That grants me a huge leeway on deep striking so much suit power.

4 rail guns lacking? Most of the time I see 3-5, one or two of them with a railhead. I can see about adding more, but where would I take the points from?

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Positional relays are the best. It gives Tau a fighting chance against some pretty good armies.

4 Broadsides is fine. He's got a lot of ultramobile suits and he only needs to pop a couple transorts at a time so they can wash it with plasma and Melta fire. The target lock should allow him to fire at four targets if he needs to and he's no doubt hitting on 2's.

I'd think about taking 5 hounds and turning them into flechette dischargers for the Pathfinder devilfish's, and also the Piranha's as they are the likely ones to be at the fore of the battle.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:Lol, abusing? i am not sure if that is a joke or not. in either case, the TL flamer on the 'el is a bit of a shame, but i needed to shave points and my HQ has to stay in back and hide for 3 out of 4 missions at the ambassadorial tournament I am attending.

Your Shas'el can still jump-shoot-jump, which you could embellish with a twin-linked missile pod if you keep him stuffed in the backfield.

The pathfinder squads I am tempted to go to squads of 4, but I want the two DF for they have the marker beacon on them. That grants me a huge leeway on deep striking so much suit power.

Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.

Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

KplKeegan wrote:
Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.

Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

Lol. The Blacksun filter is for allocation magic, obviously. But you're right he doesn't need it on the crisis units anyways other than the fact that he has to have three systems.

As an aside thought:

The Super Eclipse Mission may make that piece of wargear useful even coming from reserves. http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:
KplKeegan wrote:
Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.

Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

Lol. The Blacksun filter is for allocation magic, obviously. But you're right he doesn't need it on the crisis units anyways other than the fact that he has to have three systems.

As an aside thought:

The Super Eclipse Mission may make that piece of wargear useful even coming from reserves. http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php

Eh, how much allocation magic can you have with only three models? And if there's night fighting the WHOLE game, I'd really give them to the Broadsides and Hammerheads and Pathfinders...

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

4 models, actually. And when they are as important to the list as these are, you do what you can to keep them shooting.

There isn't nightfighting the whole game. You can read the mission if you want to.

And youre missing it. The BS filter was just the cheapest thing he could put as a third system on the suit. It's just a place holder. Since the suit cant take a Multitracker meaningfully (becauase of TL) he took the BS filter.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Tun_Tau — GMT

Maybe drop a hound and pony up for a flammer over the blacksun filter....it could actually come in handy. And I would go BC/PR/MT over that any day of the week.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

I agree. The flamer option would be better. Don't wanna give up too many hounds though. so he's got a few choices to make here.

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:4 models, actually. And when they are as important to the list as these are, you do what you can to keep them shooting.

At least give them bonding knives. Their only pumping out six shots a turn, somethings going to maul them.

There isn't nightfighting the whole game. You can read the mission if you want to.

And youre missing it. The BS filter was just the cheapest thing he could put as a third system on the suit. It's just a place holder. Since the suit cant take a Multitracker meaningfully (becauase of TL) he took the BS filter.

Turns two and five. Two complete turns where his guns will do nothing, and the latter turn could be a game breaking event where his best guns are out of the fight.

Tun_Tau wrote:Maybe drop a hound and pony up for a flammer over the blacksun filter....it could actually come in handy. And I would go BC/PR/MT over that any day of the week.

This definately. Wound shenanigans don't work on small Crisis Suit Squads. He should pump out as many shots as possible, since they're doing a good protion of the infantry killing.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I can definitely do a few things, but others are going to be harder.

I can put BS filters on the broadsides. I just have a to drop 1 hound to do so.

As far as bonding knives. I dont really think it is worth it. I wound allocate everything. Not really to keep one person alive, but rather to keep the unit alive. 25% is all of one model. putting a bonding knife on the one would meant hat I would have to try to the dickens that the one guy with the bonding knife survives so that when/if he runs, he can regroup. I have seen those suits in action, and they dont falter from shooting, they falter from getting into close combat. At that point, no bonding knife will really help me due to the fact that there is an initiative roll off. With the suits being an initiative of 2, they usually can not get away....

The other thing is the idea of going to more shots in the suits than less quality shots. My army is designed against marines. since most tournaments will have 50+% marines, its a good guess on what I am gonna go up against. With wound allocation, it is both my enemy as well as my friend. The reason I deep strike is that I can take out something in the open. I can choose my targets any where on the board, not just what my weapons can reach. With a squad of 10 jump pack marines with a librarian/character/anything. This is by numbers on what happens: The numbers will be a bit favoring the roller (ie one 1 in 11 dice, not two 1's)

I shoot 4 marker lights in and get 2. one of the marker lights will be used for each team.

between the two teams: 7 out of 8 TL-PR hit
3 out of 4 PR hit
both TL-FB hit
11 hits wounding on 2, 10 wounds.

now after that, he now has to k\pick up 10 marines due to the fact that he can not make saves on.

now the same goes for a bc/pr/mt and a fl/pr/mt squads
still have a marker light each
squad 1) 6 out of 9 BC shots hit
2 out of 3 PR shots hit
both PR wound, 4 BC wound

squad two) flamers touch 18 (6 from each)
2 out of 3 PR shots hit
both PR wound, 9 flamers wound.

I have succeeded in causing a lot more wounds. 4 ap 2 and 13!! ap 5

17 wounds compared to 10 is AMAZING, but here is the crappy part... wound allocation.

11 marine models 1 plasma on the flamer. 1 plasma on the melta. 9 others across. 1 more plasma on the famer and melta, and the remaining 4 on the standard guys.

well, the melta and the flamer definately go down. now there is 11 armor saves on the standard jump packs. 3 of them go down. (again, using favoring dice) and lets say the special character takes a wound.

With the more wounds (NEARLY TWICE AS MUCH!!) he has effectively lost 5 models instead of 10. Guess what, Marines dont fall back every often. so a suit team is getting assaulted with 6 marines instead of 1......

Now, tell me again why you would want more low AP shots mixed in with my expensive plasma rifle shots?

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Vectorz — GMT

Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Fralethepalewhale — GMT

Looks like the usual Jazzpaintball list

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Vectorz — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:
Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Yup. Also, don't you think with bringing 12 pathfinders that twin linking all your PR will go in vain? Why not pick up a FB with them? Since you plan to be Deepstriking anyway. 3 AP 1 and 2 shots, hitting mostly on two's and wounding on two's, might outperform just a single PR. Just a suggestion. Or are you just trying to save the points on the MT?

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Vectorz wrote:
jazzpaintball wrote:
Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Yup. Also, don't you think with bringing 12 pathfinders that twin linking all your PR will go in vain? Why not pick up a FB with them? Since you plan to be Deepstriking anyway. 3 AP 1 and 2 shots, hitting mostly on two's and wounding on two's, might outperform just a single PR. Just a suggestion. Or are you just trying to save the points on the MT?

That was what i did when i started to evolve this list. The only problem is that people are scared of pathfinders (and for good reasons, lol) and are usually the first things to get shot at. because of that, I can never rely on them in turn 3 and 4 when my crisis suits come in.

The pathfinders are mostly there to take away cover on specific models in early game for my broadsides: GK's autocannon dreadnaughts, flat out stormraven, smoked vehicles that contain especially nasty things. They indeed help when crisis suits come in, but there are less of them and 3+ with re-roll means nearly everything hits, 3+ without means only 4 out of the 7 shots hit.

I have been thinking about going to a single 8 man squad of pathfinders and save a kill point and about 20 overall points, but i am a bit reluctant to do so with the mission: Secure the Tarmac ( http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
doing so would leave me with both a weak HQ and a weak fast attack.

[Tau] 2k tourney

SpankingApe — GMT

One thing I don't understand is how much people under value missle pods, I don't even see a single one in your force? have you thought about using mp/pr/mt? it pumps out more shots than twin linked pr, has a far greater range and keeps your suits at a safe distance so close combat isnt an issue, plus its a cheaper suit. just a thought

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

AHH yes, the dreaded fireknife suit. I have used them greatly, but i had one problem after another with them: wound allocation.

It was the same problem, I would shoot in and do plenty of wounds due to the strength 6 and 7 combination, but the problem was that the ap 4 on the missile pod would haunt me due to marines 3+ armor save.

Now instead, I negate their armor by dropping in 2 or 3 suit teams on a lonely area with 2 small squads of marines, or 1 big squad. With all ap 1/2 weapons, I annihilate them and get ready for the others coming after the suits.

The other way around, I can cause wounds, but the 3+ save would grant very little models to actually get plucked off, leaving me to flail with my suits or to go forward and risk getting assaulted by jump marines.

also, I have no idea what you mean by it being a "cheaper suit"

FOR ANY MODS OUT THERE, DELETE THE NEXT PART IN QUOTATIONS IF THIS IS NOT ALLOWED DUE TO SHOWING OF POINTS, PLEASE LEAVE THE REST

"MY SUIT:
BASE - 50
TL PR - 30
Blacksun filter for wound allocation - 3
TOTAL: 83

YOUR SUIT
BASE: 50
PR - 20
MP - 12
MT - 5
TOTAL: 87"

Your suit at 87 points costs 4 more points than mine at 83. Now it is not a big difference, but how is this a cheaper suit? Even with a flamer or a MT (just for wound allocation purposes) it would still be 3 and 2 points cheaper respectively.

I am confused by your math.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

As a fellow Tau player I've always been really curious to try out a list like yours. I have imagined some difficulties with it though.

What do you do against warp quake armies or the tyranid thing that does the same thing as warp quake?
What do you do against super fast armies that will just boost to your board edge on turn one (dark eldar)?
What do you do against true horde armies that will just cover the entire table?

Also, depending on the terrain, its going to be really hard to completely hide your HQ from the 3 Devastator squads/loota squads/dreadnaughts/ etc and it only takes one failed save to ruin your plans.

I'm not saying your list is bad, actually, I really really like it (and think its good) and want to try it (or something like it) and I'm just playing the devil's advocate and thinking of things that could go wrong.

[Tau] 2k tourney

SpankingApe — GMT

my apologies, i compared it to the PR/FB/MT suit doh!!! you make valid points but both versions are bummed when it comes to the new 5th edition catch all. COVER SAVES! on a side note, MP is awesome for transport hunting

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

snufflelupagus wrote:As a fellow Tau player I've always been really curious to try out a list like yours. I have imagined some difficulties with it though.

What do you do against warp quake armies or the tyranid thing that does the same thing as warp quake?
What do you do against super fast armies that will just boost to your board edge on turn one (dark eldar)?
What do you do against true horde armies that will just cover the entire table?

Also, depending on the terrain, its going to be really hard to completely hide your HQ from the 3 Devastator squads/loota squads/dreadnaughts/ etc and it only takes one failed save to ruin your plans.

I'm not saying your list is bad, actually, I really really like it (and think its good) and want to try it (or something like it) and I'm just playing the devil's advocate and thinking of things that could go wrong.

Just remember one thing: Tau are a very very playable, but they are a finesse army. Things going wrong means devastation.

I will go down the list.

Against warp quake and the like armies are a bit of a challenge. Instead of bringing in my suits to devistate a squad, I will usually bait in a quake dealer and bring in the suits behind them. I am not possitioning my self very well for initial shots, for I will only get three the first turn. But i make sure I am 15 inches away and then drop in. With the dual Marker beacons on the field, I can usually get there safely. The first round is not as hard hitting, but as he turns around to come after me, I can now hit him harder, and even better, move in the assault phase away from him. Against nids, its abit harder due to fleet, but still doable thanks to the 24" range and the suits being relentless.

Super fast armies like storm ravens and dark eldar are not as bad as most people think. Due to the fast moving vehicles (transport wise) having an AV of 11 or 12, my broadsides can open them pretty easily. I use the marker lights I have for turn 1 to take away their cover save (either entirely or on a 6). then the broadsides usually have no problem after that on opening up the cans, especially dark eldar since my broadsides get a +2 on the damage chart, making even a glancing 4 devistating for anyone who moved flat out.

Against true hordes, I just bend over and kiss my butt good bye. lol. I still give up a fight, but with this list it is a bit hard. The one advantage I have is that horde armies keep moving further, especially if my broadsides are near/on an objective. This gives my deep striking suits a chance to get a hold of a back field objective and hold it until a devilfish with FW's can get there and control. Granted, I have a bit easier time since adding my kroot squad in. 63 WS4 ST4 attacks on a charge will hurt any green tide squad. but still does not make up for the overwhelming armies.

Yes, my commander is sometimes a bit hard to hide, but really I just need him to survive through turn 2. Usually he can do so, especially when i have him attached to a broadside unit. Still tempted to try and attach an ethereal to one of the broadside units, but can never find the points to try it out.

So in short, I have a lot of difficulty with hordes, but fast and warp-quake armies are more manageable than you might think. I just have to say in tournaments, I dont really see warp-quake armies since they are a bit more specialized, and thank goodness for that.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

Interesting. Tau will never beat a horde army no matter what you do. I tend to think, for your typical Tau list, that Warp Quake armies are your best matchup. I tend to crush Grey Knights (of all flavors) pretty badly. I think I'm going to build your list and play it this week at my FLGS against some MEQ army and see how I do.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

snufflelupagus wrote:Interesting. Tau will never beat a horde army no matter what you do. I tend to think, for your typical Tau list, that Warp Quake armies are your best matchup. I tend to crush Grey Knights (of all flavors) pretty badly. I think I'm going to build your list and play it this week at my FLGS against some MEQ army and see how I do.

Go ahead and give them the waffle's special, lol.

Just let me know how it went.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:I know this list will seem crazy to some. Just a couple head notes.

Broadsides, commander, and pathfinders are deployed. Kroot outflank. Suits deep strike. FW's and Piranhas are normal reserve.

The commander holds most of the army back until turn 3 or 4. The FW's use the pathfinder's DF's. The suits all deepstrike with re-rolls on scatter due to the DF's.

I am preparing for the Ambassdorial Tourney. I got the Tau army slot. http://www.40kambassadors.com/

++++ [HQ] ++++

Points: 71
% of Army: 3.55

Unit cost: 71
XV8 Shas'el
--- [TL Flamer, Positional relay]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Points: 613
% of Army: 30.65

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]

Unit cost: 211
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, TL Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Points: 402
% of Army: 20.1

Unit cost: 145
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 137
11x Kroot
--- [Kroot rifle]
10x Kroot Hound
--- [Fangs]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Points: 484
% of Army: 24.2

Unit cost: 150
2x Piranha
--- [Fusion blaster, 2x Gun drone, Disruption pod, Targeting array]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- []
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Points: 430
% of Army: 21.5

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]
-----------------------
Total model count: 70

I hope this format works, in case it looks bad, i am working on it to make it look better.

Thank you for looking,
Waffles

HQ: Even though you're using the ninja strategy, I would recommend giving your commander some bite, and upgrading him. At this points level, you have to make sure he survives...or the strategy you're basing your list on will fall apart. It is a lot more expensive, but I recommend a Shas'O with Positional relay, Plasma rifle, Missile pod (the range keeps him safe) Multi tracker, iridium armour and 2 shield drones. Despite it being ~twice the cost, it will survive and kill, will soak up damage with two 2+/4++ drones, and will live long enough to use your positional relay. Remember, bringing in only one unit per turn means you will need him to be there for a fair amount of time.

Elite: I do not understand why you would do this with your suits. For one thing, all the squads are the same, which is never a good thing. For another, they are too heavily specialized. For ANOTHER, TL is not something that is generally a good idea with tau weapons. What you're doing with your Team Leaders is powerful, just not for the amount of points you pay. The only weapons worth TL'ing are MP and flamer, and flamer only on cheap suicide suits. There are 4 loadouts that, having played for a while, I support (this is for standard suits, commanders is a different topic): PR+MP+MT, PR+BC+MT, PR+FB+MT, TLMP+flamer. Pick three and stick with it YMMV

Troops: You can afford to drop one unit of FW. Also, as much as I love kroot, carnivores are better than hounds. it's okay to take SOME hounds, but really, they're not going to thin your opponent sufficiently before they attack to make a difference, plus they can't thin them out with their shooting, and I6 GK will be a bitch either way. Because anything charging you will probably either have so many numbers thinning them won't matter, or will be wearing PA, or will be I5. More carnivores is usually the way to go.

Fast attack: actually, not that bad. But switching a unit of pathfinders for a second piranha squadron might be a good idea, it depends on your play style. Also, I've found the FD almost always make their points back, especially in a squadron, since more vehicles=more flechettes. I've found that, especially against orks, two or three flechette dischargers is strong enough to make them take a Ld test, which can prevent their assault from happening wholesale.

Heavy support: You do not, ever ever ever, want to take plasma on your broadsides. SMS is great, and free. All you need is either A.S.S, TL or TA as an upgrade, with a Team Leader who brings two drones. Do not take multiple upgrades, and do not take multi-trackers. If you're firing at a vehicle, used Railguns. If you're firing at infantry, don't, unless he has no vehicles, and use SMS.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

Will do. I've been playing Tau for awhile and recently entered a 2k point tourney and went 2-0-1 with a bit of luck and a slightly unorthodox list. I think I should start writing up some battle reports, I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

Hordes are actually a fairly easy target for tau. All our guns wound them on 3s/2s, and we ignore their armour, have great range, and pretty decent dakka...plus, we have the mobility to avoid assaults, and can field a half-decent horde unit of our own (kroot)...we eat hordes. Plus, good armour saves on everything helps.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

To Hazard:

You have a few decent points in there, but some things I just can not fathom.

Not taking plasma on broadsides? Usually I am taking all four suits with plasma, but since I am stretching for points, I decided to go this route. I never want my broadsides to get assaulted. So why on earth would you not put one of the greatest deterrents on them? Besides, when shooting at an incoming 3+ save squad, I do not want them to be able to wrap wounds with missiles.

Again, with the elites, they are set up so that wound allocation can not help the enemy. I stated this before. I am all for changes, but please state WHY something is better than what I have

The troops i think would be a bad idea to drop. If you look at the missions i am facing, several of them have A LOT of objectives (six in one alone). I do not wish to give up a troop for this tournament. A standard tournament maybe, but not this one.

Fast attack, Definitely a decent idea. I would need to buy another piranha ( I only have 3 at the moment), but is definitely something i have not really considered. Especially if I drop a FW squad it would be highly considerable.

lastly with the HQ: What you have there was my original list. A very heavy HQ that no one could touch. The only problem was that he was a heavy target. The more I cheapened him, the more people did not care about him, especially with pathfinders and broadsides on the board. Through trial and error I have found that the cheaper HQ was the best route to go.

Thank you for the suggestions, but i have to throw out the HQ and Broadside ideas just because I have worked with them long enough to find out that they work for me. The troop idea would be fantastic, but i have to have it with these circumstances. lastly, I will have to give the second squadron of Piranhas a really hard thought over due to it benefiting me in a few of the missions.

Thank you for your ideas.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

Well with the HQ, there is always the middle ground. The points of the other suggestion was to provide an HQ who is almost unkillable, guaranteeing that your positional relay stays on the board. You can always give him TLMP a flamer and a positional relay. That would allow him to snipe form 36" away, in area terrain, and flamer would decourage/thin out assault. Because as is, he is basically a 70 point positional relay, and can't do anything else, or survive anything else.

If you have a six objective game, then the FW spam might be a good idea, but I stand by my kroot suggestion: carnivores>hounds.

For elites, your suit configs are simply inefficient. Having one as a team leader (but without any other differences) is enough to save you a suit per game, in the right condition, you don't need all three to be different. Plus, as any veteran tau player will tell you, losing a suit is not a big deal. YOur suits have no teeth. Cottonjaw made a thorough analysis of effectiveness and efficiency of every crisis suit config against every enemy type, it is very useful, and I will look for it.

Those four configs are good because they are at the peak efficiency for their intended target:

TLMP+flamer is the scariest thing for transports, 1.5 str 7 hits per suit/turn will mulch a medium to light vehicle in a fairly decent turn (4.5 hits) and the flamer discourages/weakens assault, and is very cheap.

BC+PR+MT is great because is has the dakka to thin light infantry, weapons that can wreck light vehicles, and is really good at anti-meq, averaging just under half a tac squad dead per shooting phase (4)

PR+MP+MT is the most versatile suit, perfectly capable of wrecking most vehicles, able to put out decent dakka for anti infantry, anti-meq comparable to BC+PR+MT and huge potential for any role, the only issue is that not being specialized means they cannot excel at anything, really.

PR+FB+MT is one of the best anti-tank choices in the tau codex (behind XV88s, tied with piranhas), able to wreck even land raiders, great for anti-teq, can ID paladins, what's not to like?

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

I have literally, in about 50 games, a solid 15-20 against hordes never come anywhere close to defeated a true footslogging horde army. It's true, we wound on 2/3 but I challenge you to kills 120 boyz + nob squad + big mek while you have 3 loota squads murdering you. Because when it comes down to it, after you've run all over the table, it just takes about 10 boyz with a nob to kill my entire army in the assault.

On a side note, I really like Jazz's list. Maybe a little too plasma-y a little lights on the missiles for my taste, but I really like it. I want to hear how it goes for him. I like original ideas from a Tau codex that basically has two good units. Maybe two and a half.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

snufflelupagus wrote:I have literally, in about 50 games, a solid 15-20 against hordes never come anywhere close to defeated a true footslogging horde army. It's true, we wound on 2/3 but I challenge you to kills 120 boyz + nob squad + big mek while you have 3 loota squads murdering you. Because when it comes down to it, after you've run all over the table, it just takes about 10 boyz with a nob to kill my entire army in the assault.

On a side note, I really like Jazz's list. Maybe a little too plasma-y a little lights on the missiles for my taste, but I really like it. I want to hear how it goes for him. I like original ideas from a Tau codex that basically has two good units. Maybe two and a half.

Our codex has four good units. Piranhas, XV8s, Broadsides and Hammerheads, commanders...we also have a few unit that are decent, but not good like kroot, skyrays, stealthsuits etc. The tau weakness is that we have a lot of units that are terrible too. FW, vespids, krootox, shapers...

But anyways, a strategically placed LBT can kill 10+ orks, and that means that, with BC, a RH can kill 13 ish ork boyz a turn, with good positioning. Also, most crisis suit teams put out about 12-15 shots a turn, with about half hitting, and almost all of those killing. Also, Broadsides cut through meganobz like butter, and no ork vehicle can stand up to them. A centurion attached to a unit of two bodyguards with the Blinding Spear+ config nets around ten on an average round of shooting.

TL flamer suisuits are always an option for killing orks. The best ways to do it are either to go barebones with it, just TL flamer and a BSF, but I've seen them run with TL flamer, shield generator, iridium and vectored retro thrusters, it basically ensures they'll survive combat, and means they can jump out and use the flamer again.

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:For elites, your suit configs are simply inefficient. Having one as a team leader (but without any other differences) is enough to save you a suit per game, in the right condition, you don't need all three to be different. Plus, as any veteran tau player will tell you, losing a suit is not a big deal. YOur suits have no teeth.

This. Though I am a proponent of the MP + BC + MT, his summation is right on point.

jazzpaintball wrote:The reason I deep strike is that I can take out something in the open... Now, tell me again why you would want more low AP shots mixed in with my expensive plasma rifle shots?

Because you assume you're going to hit something in the open, be able to shoot both teams at one squad, have LoS on the Pathfinders for Marker Lights. Considering the Positional Relay only allows one unit Deep Strike for that entire turn makes me wonder how you're going to get both down at the same time...

Any Space Marine player worth his salt will not be sitting out in the open for you to shoot him. He'll either be in cover or behind a building, so shooting TL plasma rifles at regular marines in cover is not going to kill all of them.

[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off. If I hold the army till turn 3 or 4, I can bring in an overwhelming amount of troops onto the field on a roll of 3/2+ respectively. I bring on a single fw team or the kroot, baiting the enemy to come after me and to bring their units into marker light range.

With that, I can nearly garentee at least 2 of my three suit squads are coming in to sqash a week side of the enemy.

That right there is how I know I will get multiple suit sqauds in and how I know something is out in the open. It is ahrder for me to play people I play against regulary, but against someone that does not play me ofter or at all, my list is a bit overwhelming in turn 3 or 4.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is almost like deamon Tau.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

The only Crisis suit config's capable of putting out 12+ shots a turn are Missile/Plasma and BC/Plasma inside of 12" and Missile/BC. Also, if you ever get inside of 18", which you will need to do to shoot your 12+ shots a turn, you will be getting 2 shots per living shoota boy back + 3 shots per big shoota on top of all the lootas shooting every turn. If they have 3 squads of 12 lootas, which is fairly typical, and they average 2 shots per turn, you are looking at 24 hits, ~20 wounds, ~7 failed saves just from lootas. Then lets say they have 81 shoota and 9 big shootas to start. And you kill 30 before they get in 18" range (this by the way, would never happen. Ever. You would need to put 60 wounds out, which is 120 shots assuming that all hits are wounds) you still have 50 shootas (100 shots) and 9 big shootas (27 shots). So they hit with 66 shoota shots, wound with 33, ~roughly 11 failed saves. They hit with 9 big shoota shots, wound with ~8, ~2 failed saves. So if you get 12+ shots with any suit squad, which puts you in range of them (you jump back 6", they walk forward 6" on their turn) you would be taking roughly 20 failed armour saves back. Which is 10 dead suits. This is all in ideal conditions, assuming they are all in range, you are in perfect range etc.

Your also assuming for the LBT that they are grouped as tight as possible, not in cover, and it doesn't scatter. If you are spread out as much as possible you may be hitting 10 models if you are super lucky, then lets assume you roll no 1's and get 10 wounds, then they take a 4+ cover save and you kill 5. To kill 10 orks with a LBT you would have get 20 models underneath the template and I'm not even sure that is possible.

Remember, BC wounds on a two on Orks. Railguns don't make short work of Nobs, each broadside squad is going to kill, on average, just over 1 per turn (1.125 assuming you never roll a 1) and a Hammerhead is going to kill about 1/3 of a nob a turn.

Also, the Big Mek giving cover to everything on the table. There is no way, ever, to have an ork army not in cover.

You also, in some lists, have Snikrot to come in on your back board edge so you can't even deploy on your table edge, you actually have to deploy 12" up to avoid the assault that kills your entire army.

I honestly don't know how to combat Orks as a Tau player.

Oh, and Piranhas are bad. 70 points for a gun that hits half the time and then acts a a minor speedbump for one squad.

And Jazz, please let me know how the Tourney goes, I am super curious. I think you've posted some battle reports here before right? With a similar list?

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

snufflelupagus wrote:The only Crisis suit config's capable of putting out 12+ shots a turn are Missile/Plasma and BC/Plasma inside of 12" and Missile/BC. Also, if you ever get inside of 18", which you will need to do to shoot your 12+ shots a turn, you will be getting 2 shots per living shoota boy back + 3 shots per big shoota on top of all the lootas shooting every turn. If they have 3 squads of 12 lootas, which is fairly typical, and they average 2 shots per turn, you are looking at 24 hits, ~20 wounds, ~7 failed saves just from lootas. Then lets say they have 81 shoota and 9 big shootas to start. And you kill 30 before they get in 18" range (this by the way, would never happen. Ever. You would need to put 60 wounds out, which is 120 shots assuming that all hits are wounds) you still have 50 shootas (100 shots) and 9 big shootas (27 shots). So they hit with 66 shoota shots, wound with 33, ~roughly 11 failed saves. They hit with 9 big shoota shots, wound with ~8, ~2 failed saves. So if you get 12+ shots with any suit squad, which puts you in range of them (you jump back 6", they walk forward 6" on their turn) you would be taking roughly 20 failed armour saves back. Which is 10 dead suits. This is all in ideal conditions, assuming they are all in range, you are in perfect range etc.

Your also assuming for the LBT that they are grouped as tight as possible, not in cover, and it doesn't scatter. If you are spread out as much as possible you may be hitting 10 models if you are super lucky, then lets assume you roll no 1's and get 10 wounds, then they take a 4+ cover save and you kill 5. To kill 10 orks with a LBT you would have get 20 models underneath the template and I'm not even sure that is possible.

Remember, BC wounds on a two on Orks. Railguns don't make short work of Nobs, each broadside squad is going to kill, on average, just over 1 per turn (1.125 assuming you never roll a 1) and a Hammerhead is going to kill about 1/3 of a nob a turn.

Also, the Big Mek giving cover to everything on the table. There is no way, ever, to have an ork army not in cover.

You also, in some lists, have Snikrot to come in on your back board edge so you can't even deploy on your table edge, you actually have to deploy 12" up to avoid the assault that kills your entire army.

I honestly don't know how to combat Orks as a Tau player.

Oh, and Piranhas are bad. 70 points for a gun that hits half the time and then acts a a minor speedbump for one squad.

And Jazz, please let me know how the Tourney goes, I am super curious. I think you've posted some battle reports here before right? With a similar list?

Except your example had most of their army shooting at the one unit of crisis suits. Orks and IG are cakewalks, I've found. Same with DE.

Piranhas are 75 points for a model that hits on a 3 with a weapon that can destroy any tank in the game, and they have a 4+ cover save, and they can take FD which, when in a larger squadron, can shred an entire squad assaulting them. You could charge 3 FD piranhas with an infinite number of boyz, and they will (statictically speaking) all die.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, with your postitional relay, you don't get one unit in on 2+ and the rest on normal rolls, ONLY the one squad can come in that turn, at all. The thing with that wargear is that it limits the quantity of reinforcements you can bring in.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

I didn't specify at all who they were shooting at. I would just assume that once you force a leadership on a crisis suit squad you'd move on to the next. And when you've done that you move back and kill the most dangerous.

Look, I play Tau. I want them to be really good and I do fairly well with them in Tournaments.

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

If you'd like to enlighten me on why Orks are so easy, aside from just saying Orks are easy, I'd really appreciate it. I find them to be one of the most difficult armies to play. Daemons, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Chaos Marines, Vanilla Marines, MEQ Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Eldar are all pretty good matchups for Tau. Basically anything that jumps, teleports, or fleets is pretty rough, anything is universal FNP (Jump pack Blood Angels with their Priests), or anything that is just massive hordes I find to be really hard.

So if you have the answer to that question. I would really appreciate it.

[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

KplKeegan wrote:
jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

No, You got it a bit backwards.

On turn two and three, usually I will roll in a FW squad. They come on the board and go strait into a DF that was designated for the Pathfinders. This gives my scoring unit mobility and protection. This is why I have two of them at the moment. I will bring in kroot if there is a good target on both edges since they outflank anyway. It is always nice to see a set of 5 or 6 scouts off to the side that the kroot can pounce upon.

On turn 4, i will open the "tau floodgates." This is a perfect turn since I will have at least 2 turns to work with, and most likely a third. in turn 4, most people have come out of their hiding holes and there is bound to be a few squads in the open for my suits to come down upon. Also, i can either zoom up to an objective with the piranhas from the board edge(18") or i can hit any tank REALLY hard that came within 18" of my board edge.

Once again, I think you guys were mistaken on how the positional relay works in my army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To Hazard: I know about the 2+ keeping everything else off the field but the one squad. That is what I want.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

snufflelupagus wrote:I didn't specify at all who they were shooting at. I would just assume that once you force a leadership on a crisis suit squad you'd move on to the next. And when you've done that you move back and kill the most dangerous.

Look, I play Tau. I want them to be really good and I do fairly well with them in Tournaments.

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

If you'd like to enlighten me on why Orks are so easy, aside from just saying Orks are easy, I'd really appreciate it. I find them to be one of the most difficult armies to play. Daemons, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Chaos Marines, Vanilla Marines, MEQ Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Eldar are all pretty good matchups for Tau. Basically anything that jumps, teleports, or fleets is pretty rough, anything is universal FNP (Jump pack Blood Angels with their Priests), or anything that is just massive hordes I find to be really hard.

So if you have the answer to that question. I would really appreciate it.

I have played orks too, and the strong builds i can handle, but the green tide is hard to handle. I have play so many others in your list lineup, but daemons I have trouble with. Please PM me and let me know a few of your secrets if you would not mind.

Thanks snuffle,
Waffles

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

Nope. The only FAQ stated that they are a squadron upgrade, meaning for one to have it, they all have to have it. They still all go off.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:
Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

You can only havew three sytems, plus hard wired ones. So this is not actually legal.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

snufflelupagus wrote: I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

Here's three!

http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/tau-empire-vs-space-wolves-battle.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/space-marine-vs-tau-video-battle-report.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/assault-tau-battle-report.html

=)

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:
KplKeegan wrote:
jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

No, You got it a bit backwards.

On turn two and three, usually I will roll in a FW squad. They come on the board and go strait into a DF that was designated for the Pathfinders. This gives my scoring unit mobility and protection. This is why I have two of them at the moment. I will bring in kroot if there is a good target on both edges since they outflank anyway. It is always nice to see a set of 5 or 6 scouts off to the side that the kroot can pounce upon.

On turn 4, i will open the "tau floodgates." This is a perfect turn since I will have at least 2 turns to work with, and most likely a third. in turn 4, most people have come out of their hiding holes and there is bound to be a few squads in the open for my suits to come down upon. Also, i can either zoom up to an objective with the piranhas from the board edge(18") or i can hit any tank REALLY hard that came within 18" of my board edge.

Once again, I think you guys were mistaken on how the positional relay works in my army.

So all that's going to sit on the field for three turns prior are the Commander, Broadsides, Pathfinders, a Devil Fish w/ Fire Warriors, two empty Devil Fish on the your board edge, and possibly Kroot? And its in the hope in the lull of three turns that somehow these units remain intact when the Reinforcements arrive? Two, four-model-count Broadside Teams and Pathfrinders for three turns?

You're sure banking on this stuff not running the moment they lose a couple models (Broadsides would take a Ld Test after losing a shield drone, Pathfinders would take it after losing two models, which isn't unrealistic, considering they'll be the only things on the board.

And what about your opponents outflanking units? Or Space Wolf Scouts? Or Ymgarl Genestealers? Or Vanguard Veterans? Or Drop Pod Army lists?

You're taking a pretty steep gamble by biding your time...

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

KplKeegan wrote:
jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

He WANTS to limit the reinforcements coming in!

I taught him this method and he uses it pretty well. It works.

The Tau present easy to kill targets for enemies and they do so with little fear of the reprisal they will get in many cases, allowing the Tau force to be whittled via LD checks and actual losses while the enemy approaches. There's no sense in allowing it. So don't.

Instead he uses spacer units to keep most of his force off the board and to force the enemy to split his forces up or face the wrath of the Broadsides for far too long and by making Broadsides the only available bait (spaced out of course), as hard as they can be to kill with drones, the enemy REALLY kind of needs to shut them up as quick as possible. Cause with Pathfinders, they just aren't missing anything!

So the enemy splits up to deal with these "curs" and in so doing, allows him to strong side the enemy LATE, without giving the enemy enough time to span the distances and respond. The overwhelming fire power is not whittled in the least in turn 4 basically and just washes over the weaker side.

This is the short version of many numerous posts. Lol.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

Jancoran wrote:
jazzpaintball wrote:
Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

You can only havew three sytems, plus hard wired ones. So this is not actually legal.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

snufflelupagus wrote: I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

Here's three!

http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/tau-empire-vs-space-wolves-battle.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/space-marine-vs-tau-video-battle-report.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/assault-tau-battle-report.html

=)

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

I am all for people not like one army build or another, but please give a reason.

Even if it is a stupid as " i don't like the color scheme," it makes you seem less of a douche.

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:Instead he uses spacer units to keep most of his force off the board and to force the enemy to split his forces up or face the wrath of the Broadsides for far too long and by making Broadsides the only available bait (spaced out of course), as hard as they can be to kill with drones, the enemy REALLY kind of needs to shut them up as quick as possible. Cause with Pathfinders, they just aren't missing anything!

So the enemy splits up to deal with these "curs" and in so doing, allows him to strong side the enemy LATE, without giving the enemy enough time to span the distances and respond. The overwhelming fire power is not whittled in the least in turn 4 basically and just washes over the weaker side.

Two packs of ML Longfangs would mulch those broadsides. Four Rockets hitting at BS3 and wounding on a +2 and causing Instant Death is not something I would expose my Broadsides to needlessly, especially for three turns. And again, outflanking units would destroy anything within reach, especially Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, and Land Speeders. A Deep Striking Space Marine army would absolutely love to fight this army...

I'm still not seeing how a compotent, tournament savvy Space Marine (Guard or Horde Player) would be cowed by four Broadsides for three turns...

[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

KplKeegan wrote:

So all that's going to sit on the field for three turns prior are the Commander, Broadsides, Pathfinders, a Devil Fish w/ Fire Warriors, two empty Devil Fish on the your board edge, and possibly Kroot? And its in the hope in the lull of three turns that somehow these units remain intact when the Reinforcements arrive? Two, four-model-count Broadside Teams and Pathfrinders for three turns?

You're sure banking on this stuff not running the moment they lose a couple models (Broadsides would take a Ld Test after losing a shield drone, Pathfinders would take it after losing two models, which isn't unrealistic, considering they'll be the only things on the board.

And what about your opponents outflanking units? Or Space Wolf Scouts? Or Ymgarl Genestealers? Or Vanguard Veterans? Or Drop Pod Army lists?

You're taking a pretty steep gamble by biding your time...

Now just a heads up: The main strategy is what I said with the positional relay.

Now, luckily for us, we get to see the opponent's army list before the game. This will allow me to decide to go with my original plan or deviate and 'deploy normally.'

Tau are all about giving yourself the upper hand. Allowing my self to choose multiple deployment styles is going to help me, not hinder. This is in comparison with a kroot wall army in which you always deploy the same way every time without an option of deviation.

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:Tau are all about giving yourself the upper hand. Allowing my self to choose multiple deployment styles is going to help me, not hinder. This is in comparison with a kroot wall army in which you always deploy the same way every time without an option of deviation.

I never touch Kroot. I run an all Mech Tau Army.

Now, luckily for us, we get to see the opponent's army list before the game. This will allow me to decide to go with my original plan or deviate and 'deploy normally.'

Remember that your opponent sees your list as well, so despite how or when you deploy, he'll know which units to keep in mind if/when they're not on the board...

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Yes, agreed that they can see my list, and if they fear it, then I am better off for they will turtle in while i pluck away at them,

Now just a heads up, It seems that you are thinking that this is personal. The think about the kroot was not an attack, and you thinking as such is making me question whether the advice you are trying to give is worth anything at all to listen to. Those sentences had nothing to do with anyone in particular, rather just a popular tau build.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Lol. Worst builds ever, am I right? Yeah I imagine anyone who plays a list like that just isn't going to win a thing. In fact, who knows why people bother posting tripe like that eh? I mean can you imagine the gall of a guy writing a list like that and trying to play them at any kind of competitive event?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KplKeegan wrote:
I never touch Kroot. I run an all Mech Tau Army.

Remember that your opponent sees your list as well, so despite how or when you deploy, he'll know which units to keep in mind if/when they're not on the board...

They see it...but they don't understand it. Ican't say this enough: your plan A is this. But the army works fine using plan B (more or less normal deployment) if needed. It's not trapped into one way of fighting. The enemy can stare holes in a list all day long but what good does it do them when theres nothing they can do to stop it? They can't will you to deploy more. They can load up longfangs but Longfangs arene't 72 inch range and they can TRY to kill the Broadsides in cover with 2+ saves with missiles but... Missiles may as well be bolters against them, really.

So while any enemy hasa shot at beating any army, what he is telling you is that the strategy works more often than it doesn't. And if it seems like it's not needed, he just deploys normally. Done.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:
Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Lol. Worst builds ever, am I right? Yeah I imagine anyone who plays a list like that just isn't going to win a thing. In fact, who knows why people bother posting tripe like that eh? I mean can you imagine the gall of a guy writing a list like that and trying to play them at any kind of competitive event?

You post it and not expect criticisms?

Jancoran wrote:They see it...but they don't understand it. Ican't say this enough: your plan A is this. But the army works fine using plan B (more or less normal deployment) if needed. It's not trapped into one way of fighting. The enemy can stare holes in a list all day long but what good does it do them when theres nothing they can do to stop it? They can't will you to deploy more. They can load up longfangs but Longfangs arene't 72 inch range and they can TRY to kill the Broadsides in cover with 2+ saves with missiles but... Missiles may as well be bolters against them, really.

I just don't see this list being very effective in a tournament setting, where you see Longfang Spam, Draigowing, Blood Angel DoA and Fast Mech builds, Mech Guard, Mech Dar; really fast armies loaded in transports or outflanking Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, or Deep Striking Drop Pods. You're not going to have enough shots to kill all of them, especially in a 2K event. And that's just Space Marines...

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:
Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

I am all for people not like one army build or another, but please give a reason.

Even if it is a stupid as " i don't like the color scheme," it makes you seem less of a douche.

Not even going into detail, I can sum it up fairly nicely: Few suits, and he took vespids.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

I run an all Mech Tau Army.

TX-42? That's the most effective way I've found of doing all mech tau. That way you keep those Missile Pods and Plasma shots in your army, without any T values (except commander)

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Yea, too bad the tx-42 is illegal in most tournaments.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:Yea, too bad the tx-42 is illegal in most tournaments.

90%+ of games people play aren't tourneys, and while your thing is, I was talking to him, so your situation is irrelevant. They are just generally a great choice.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I am not trying to sound self centered, but isn't the thread for critiquing a tourney list?

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote:I am not trying to sound self centered, but isn't the thread for critiquing a tourney list?

Conversations sometimes wander, and considering this is dakka, this is pretty mild

Anyways, I've made my suggestions, and everyone else has made theirs. Post your new list and we'll critique it too, other than that, I don't see why we're still posting.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Not a problem. I will go through and make the changes and test it out. I will post up the findings and new list later this week.

Thanks for everybody's help.
Waffles

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

KplKeegan wrote:
You post it and not expect criticisms?

I just don't see this list being very effective in a tournament setting, where you see Longfang Spam, Draigowing, Blood Angel DoA and Fast Mech builds, Mech Guard, Mech Dar; really fast armies loaded in transports or outflanking Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, or Deep Striking Drop Pods. You're not going to have enough shots to kill all of them, especially in a 2K event. And that's just Space Marines...

My list wasn't up for criticism. Someone said they wanted to see battle reports and I posted some. Enjoy.

As for him doing well: he won best overall recently at, YES a tournament and he won 4th at a 43 player GT qualifier with it.

So yeah. It can win. And its current form is sligfhtly more optimized now. So all in all, I'd say what he's REALLY looking for is tweaks that will optimize it further, not wholesale changes to what is already a potent list.

Are there armies he may struggle with? well of course there are. I know of no list that is indomitable. So, focusing back on Jazzpaintball now..

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Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Not even going into detail, I can sum it up fairly nicely: Few suits, and he took vespids.

So it is then your opinion that Jazzpaintballs army would be superior to mine? After all, he has 10 Crisis suits. I have 1. He has no Stingwings. I have 9. So his list is better correct? Bacause of that right? That's what you said I think.

Stingwings would work well for a player like Jazzpaintball. He is already very comfortable with HOW to use a drop army. It plays to his experential strengths. Until you said this, I had not really consdiered what Stingwings would look like in his force.

But now I needs must... hmm... I have the models to test out anything he could possibly think to do with Tau. Could be a fun exercize.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Total Roster Cost: 2000

1 Commander Shas'el+ Twin Linked Flamer + Positional Relay

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone

6 Fire Warrior
1 Devilfish+ Disruption Pod

6 Fire Warrior

6 Fire Warrior

10 Kroot Carnivore Squad +2 Kroot Hounds

5 Pathfinder
1 Devilfish + Disruption Pod + Flechette Discharger+ Sensor Spines

5 Pathfinder
1 Devilfish + Disruption Pod + Flechette Discharger+ Sensor Spines

1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Hard-wired Target Lock+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
1 Broadside Battlesuit +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+ Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone

8 Stingwings
1 Strain Leader

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:As for him doing well: he won best overall recently at, YES a tournament and he won 4th at a 43 player GT qualifier with it

Do you have a battle report because I just don't believe that at all.

So yeah. It can win. And its current form is sligfhtly more optimized now. So all in all, I'd say what he's REALLY looking for is tweaks that will optimize it further, not wholesale changes to what is already a potent list.

There's nothing wholesale changing about my recommended tweaks. Bonding knives keeps a Crisis Suit or Two in the game instead of running off the table and a cheap burst cannon can add wounds to an otherwise lacking unit. But frankly I just think the strategy is just plain erroneous against a seasoned tournament player.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

TL plasma on broadsides is Terribad. You shouldn't fire your secondary weapons ever, and this 20 points x 3 would be enough for almost another broadsides, or to turn his HQ into a powerhouse.

Stingwings...the worst unit, in any codex. A unit of 10 (costing more than a tactical squad, and clearly designed to take out tac squads) was originally designed with the thought of clearing out a tac squad by devastating it with low ap and then assaulting. This doesn't work, however. 10 shots, five hits, four go down. Even if they don't assault, they will all be killed by the survivors. Flamer accounts for two or three kills, ML kills another two or three. Should be about 6 bolter shots, accounts for another 2 vespids. Now we have 6-8 dead vespids. You might kill one more in shooting next turn, but next time they either shoot or assault you're dead.

So your unit, which is more expensive then his, and with him being THE ideal target for your guys, still defeats yours.

Vespid suck.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Well, the 4th place GT qualifier does have a battle rep on it. look up the 10 threads I started, it is the one that says bat rep. I played three games. The I lost the first one with a squeek by him. I won the second against marines, and the third against marines. Now I will say that The second game was against an easier opponent. Not a new player, but not a seasoned vet as it were.

The last guy was a seasoned vet. Looked at my list and asked to play someone different for he did not think i was "enough of a challenge for his final game" to the store owner. After turn 3 he started complaining about how my list is BS and by turn 4 he was cussing and throwing dice, saying: "It is dice," and "I did not bring a 'proper' army."

I play a lot with very very good players. I know you all will never consider them good because apparently I am so bad I wouldnt know the difference.....

I dont win many games, I usually tie. I play a lot of dark angel termies, A LOT of blood angels (Storm raven, priests, maphiston, etc), quite a bit of vanilla and space wolves. DE, Eldar, and grey knights are more occasional.

Laugh as you see fit, but the list works. It is not perfection, and I do not really think it can ever take some really high up tournaments. I dont think Tau will get very many chances at that until after 6th ed comes out, but until then this list wins me tournaments. I hope there are a few Tau players out there that can go "Hmmm... something different, may be it might work." instead of "OMG< ITS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I PLAY<< IT WILL NEVER WORK AND YOUR STUPID FOR TRYING>>>>."

Thank you for the people that gave me usable suggestions. I have no problem with criticism, but if you dont explain yourself on why you think it is worse/better to do something, then you are just coming across as a douche.

Waffles

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

The reason "different" lists are shunned so amongst tau players is that the peak efficiency of tau units falls within very, very specific parameters.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

snufflelupagus — GMT

Dear Je Suis,

I play competitive Tau. I like Waffles list. Like I said before, not quite what I would run if I was going for what he is.

Also, you like Pirahnas and Hammerheads and you think those are the most efficient?

That aside, this is place to exchange ideas. If you have some personal experience that supports the things you say, talk about them instead of just calling everyone else an idiot. If you don't have personal experience, use math. Math is good. Also, support any claim you have with something.

Dear Waffles,

I read that battle report of your victory. To be honest, I think you got a bit lucky in the second game (but this a game about luck!) with the fellow forgetting his reserves. But honestly, marines are a great match-up for us and you probably would have won anyway. Good luck on the next tourney and I look forward to reading another report.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

KplKeegan : you dont have to beleive it. It happened. And I didn't say your suggestion was sweeping. I just said that hes not looking for sweeping changes.

As for the way he finds being "erroneous" trust me. You're talking to a tourney player and I can tell you it works. So can my opponents. Jazzpaintball, where would you rate my performance as a player?

Je suis2 au hazard: Have you read the codex? It's not 20 x 3. TL Plasma is only 10.

Also you probably didn't notice the text on Stingwings. They can use Markerlights. So no. What they do is alight, fire up to 11 times, hit 9 times and kill 6 Marines. Great assassin unit. Not only that but they can land in cover with little risk while doing it. And when you shoot them, they can go to ground in anticipation of the charge and get 3+ saves. When you charge them with whats left, they are tough 4. That is how you use them properly. IMproperly used without support, sure. They look bad. But with support: nothing better for clearing out Marine nests. No more or less valid than using Markerlights to assist suits. They actually pump out a LOT more shots than suits and kill a lot more.

Trminators on the charge average 6.25 kills. Stingwings kill 6 this way. Not too shabby. Not too shabby at all. And since his list is already set up to support him doing this, hey: why not. They survive longer than any Piranha that stops to take a shot for sure. And they are the best perimeter assassins you can find outside of Crisis units themselves.

Not that I will convert you. In fact lets agree that you are sold on "how much they suck" and I'll NEVER move you from that position. Okay by me. But if you look deeper than the skin you just never know what you might find. In this case he could actually try this and I think with his style of play and his game plan they could be a real strong play for him.

Grey KNights certainly dont look forward to seeing a unit like that around. Hehehe. bye bye Psycannon unit!

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

jazzpaintball wrote: I play a lot with very very good players. I know you all will never consider them good because apparently I am so bad I wouldnt know the difference...

Kinda hard to grade your competition without their lists, so your feigning sentiment is moot. All I could see from the Battle Report thread was a picture of the enemy army and your perspective in two of those games with no pictures. There's no possible way to tell how savvy your opponents really are without some sort of insight into their play style; either through their list or pictures of their gameplay.

I dont win many games, I usually tie. I play a lot of dark angel termies, A LOT of blood angels (Storm raven, priests, maphiston, etc), quite a bit of vanilla and space wolves. DE, Eldar, and grey knights are more occasional.

Laugh as you see fit, but the list works. It is not perfection, and I do not really think it can ever take some really high up tournaments. I dont think Tau will get very many chances at that until after 6th ed comes out, but until then this list wins me tournaments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you win best in show at a tournament after that Battle Report with a losing record:

Battle report for last saturdays game:

Lost first two games.
Won my last game against a kid who really did not know the game at all.
Due to bonus points, having an 89% percent for a paint score, a 100% sportsmanship score; the 36% for the actual games I tied for best overall. According to a rule by the store owner, a tie is broken by the highest sportsmanship score.

Yup....I won best overall with only one win....

Its hard from my perspective to take your victories without a grain of salt. Perhaps I'd be more convinced with more in-depth battle reports, but I digress. Local Tournaments and Special Tournaments like Ard Boys, Adepticon, Nova, and the Gamesday GT are two complete different beasts. I'm scrutinizing your list for cases of the latter, so if the scalpel seems too sharp it is for that reason.

I play a very unorthodox list (that doesn't use ForgeWorld) in the form of a Mechanized and Aggressive Tau Army, complete with ten suits, three hammer heads, and four Devil Fish with squads of ten Pulse Carbine fire warriors and two Pathfinder squads. I know where your batting from and I staunchly support it. But pride in originality is a terrible thing in a Gamesday GT, where your army got sucked up by the Leaf Blower Brigade when the IG Codex came out...

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

He took 4th at the GT Qualifier with two wins and a tie I think.

I find attacks on opponent quality the weakest possible argument for anything, from anyone. It has no substance so I wont address HIS opponents too much. I think its incredibly unfair to even go there.

But the lists used in the big tournies are on the internet if you want them. It isn't as if Tony Kopach (of Adepticon fame) won with a different codex. In fact if you saw his army last year it was surprisingly...simple. It really was. And it works for him.

My list is COMPLETELY different from Waffles, but his army has game changing firepower where mine wears you down (a trait I find more desirable because when facing hordes its all about the volume). The enemy knows those Crisis suits in his list are coming and they have to meneuver just to control the landing grounds for the suits which disallows them from acting optimally all the time. Its jarring when he lands those suits and an entire unit vaporizes, with no enemies close enough to charge them afterwards.

My last game against Waffles, I was unable to kill a single Crisis suit because he slew the main things that could hurt them and they then fired down on me the whole game. They chose a great landing zone, took advantage of their range and made everything inbetween a killing field. Basically I just had to accept it.

When he plays it smart like that, what can you do? Can't be everywhere at ones. I watched two entire units get vaporized on his Deep Strike and a firebase get created for him that was simply unassailable.

Now I did win that game, but it was close and had there been another turn it might well have gone the other way.

So I can attest to the craziness of the firepower. The Stingwings would give him yet ANOTHER and much FASTER addition to his method of clearing out areas. Added insurance if the Suits somehow cant finish the job on an important sector of the board.

Anyways, food for thought Waffles. Food for thought...

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Tun_Tau — GMT

What I'd like to convey Is that I love the strategy they have developed. It follows a logic that is unique to the Tau.

What I've boiled it down to is: Fire power, Mobility and Timing.

Other armies might have the firepower or the mobilty, or even both , but timing belongs soley to the Tau.

I could see this working with a list made of any unit in our codex with practice.

As far as small suggestion for improving your list.

Upgrade a broadside to a Shas'vre and slap the positional relay onto him. Would give you back your HQ so you can use his higher stat line to cause some havoc.
Edit:Nevermind they do not have access, just looked it up. Maybe on a elite slot crisis then.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Yeah its fun to do. It took a long time to get my list to where it conformed to the strategy and I find it interesting how well he has adapted the idea for his list. Which reinforces your point basically.

[Tau] 2k tourney

KplKeegan — GMT

Jancoran wrote:
I find attacks on opponent quality the weakest possible argument for anything, from anyone. It has no substance so I wont address HIS opponents too much. I think its incredibly unfair to even go there.

What attack? What is there to attack? All I know from the battle report is what I can see from the single picture, so I can't attack an opponent who has absolutely no substance within the Battle Report itself. And when you declare he wins tournaments and impress that it was skill, when in the details provided, he won a tournament's Best Overall through Generalship and Painting. It's misleading.

While I like Jazzpaintballs' originality, and while I may have been a bit stubborn, he was willing to listen. If he posts more descript battle reports, I'd probably change my mind. I like his honesty.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Yeah he's pretty straight forward. Sensitive too. Dont get on his bad side. Lol.

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Tun_Tau wrote:What I'd like to convey Is that I love the strategy they have developed. It follows a logic that is unique to the Tau.

What I've boiled it down to is: Fire power, Mobility and Timing.

Other armies might have the firepower or the mobilty, or even both , but timing belongs soley to the Tau.

I could see this working with a list made of any unit in our codex with practice.

As far as small suggestion for improving your list.

Upgrade a broadside to a Shas'vre and slap the positional relay onto him. Would give you back your HQ so you can use his higher stat line to cause some havoc.
Edit:Nevermind they do not have access, just looked it up. Maybe on a elite slot crisis then.

That is a great idea, but the only problem would be is that the positional relay has to be on the board for it to work. If I put it on a 'vre elite, I would have to bring one squad on. Would be a great idea for a 2500 point army list, but with me stretching for points already, I am not sure about doing so. I will try it out and see how it works.

Thanks for the idea.

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KplKeegan wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
I find attacks on opponent quality the weakest possible argument for anything, from anyone. It has no substance so I wont address HIS opponents too much. I think its incredibly unfair to even go there.

What attack? What is there to attack? All I know from the battle report is what I can see from the single picture, so I can't attack an opponent who has absolutely no substance within the Battle Report itself. And when you declare he wins tournaments and impress that it was skill, when in the details provided, he won a tournament's Best Overall through Generalship and Painting. It's misleading.

While I like Jazzpaintballs' originality, and while I may have been a bit stubborn, he was willing to listen. If he posts more descript battle reports, I'd probably change my mind. I like his honesty.

What would you prefer more. I can play a few games later this week. I can fully tape them. Now that youtube allows longer videos, I can put a whole 2 hour game online. Would you like a short recap 30 of video after every player turn? would you like more pictures and in depth notes.

I have never really asked, nor searched, for what is the most preferable way to do a battle report.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jancoran wrote:Yeah he's pretty straight forward. Sensitive too. Dont get on his bad side. Lol.

Yea, I know. It takes a lot to crack me, but when It happens I just need 5 minutes away from the situation. That or a target and a dozen arrows/box of ammo. That is my usual stress outlet, but have not done so for quite a while. Sad really....

[Tau] 2k tourney

Je suis2 au hazard — GMT

Je suis2 au hazard: Have you read the codex? It's not 20 x 3. TL Plasma is only 10.

Also you probably didn't notice the text on Stingwings. They can use Markerlights. So no. What they do is alight, fire up to 11 times, hit 9 times and kill 6 Marines. Great assassin unit. Not only that but they can land in cover with little risk while doing it. And when you shoot them, they can go to ground in anticipation of the charge and get 3+ saves. When you charge them with whats left, they are tough 4. That is how you use them properly. IMproperly used without support, sure. They look bad. But with support: nothing better for clearing out Marine nests. No more or less valid than using Markerlights to assist suits. They actually pump out a LOT more shots than suits and kill a lot more.

Trminators on the charge average 6.25 kills. Stingwings kill 6 this way. Not too shabby. Not too shabby at all. And since his list is already set up to support him doing this, hey: why not. They survive longer than any Piranha that stops to take a shot for sure. And they are the best perimeter assassins you can find outside of Crisis units themselves.

They do not shoot more than crisis suits. Crisis suits can have up to 15 shots per unit, at a much smaller cost.

As you saw in the other tau list thread, BC+PR+MT suits kill and average of about six marines a turn with the same markerlight support, but they have noticeably more range, survivability, maneuverability, better at avoiding assault...Plus, with the plasma rifles they are a threat to vehicles. And it costs less. They also do better when cover is involved since their BCs kill with dakka and not low ap.

And I did notice the text on Stingwings with MLs, the problem is you can't mathhammer them with ML and not their competition and keep things fair.

3+ cover saves if they go to ground in area terrain? You mean they're like ever other unit in the whole game?

They are T4...which is average. Marines are also T4, with the benefit of 3+ saves and S4, so they will smash vespids in CC. Also, the Sarge will likely have a fist. Retaliatory shooting will be devastating because they will keep their special weapons and sarge alive, and they alone could kill your unit.

The fact is they can't kill a squad of marines in one round of shooting, and the return fire/assault WILL destroy them. Not destroying a full squad means they won't get their points back. Even destroying a full squad they wouldn't get their points back.

My bad on the broadside thing. Even if the plasma was default and SMS was +10 points, I might still go for it. It's that much better.

Actually, probably not because using the secondary weapon on a broadside means you're not using the primary.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Its infinitely fair to use Markerlights. Plasma+fusion kills 6.25 Marines WITH Markerlights and cost an identical amount. Problem is, they aren;t in the same FOC. So there's no need to choose. You can get a StingWing Squad to do what the Crisis suits do, freeing them up for antitank duty where they really should be with those fusion. Unless of course the Broadsides did their job in which case it'll REALLY be fun to have them.

But unfortunately the Crisis units have to be right in the enemies charge range to do that the most effectively which also means that while killing tanks should be their first job, it might be all they do. Here, the Stingwings are there to empty a can of painsauce into whatever the Crisis suits blow from their shell. Perfect combination.

If the Suits are over 12" (the range thing you mentioned) they cant kill as many and the further away you are, the more cover/troops/melees/dead tanks get in the way.

So imagine the synergy when 4 units jump in and all of them can annihilate troops, or pop tanks then annihilate troops. Its a beautiful thing. In fact it'll freee up a crisis suiot to do its magid elsewhere also!

So we can go back and forth all you want, but the bottom line is, Im replacing Piranhas with this in his particular list and I think its a STRONG addition for how he plays his force. Round 2, they can move in and jack-move the enemy Retributors from cover OR they can swoop in in turn 4 with the Crisis units and utterly crush anything so follish as to be out in the open. Cant hide forever. Or even just use them to contest while the "more important" Crisis unit (with the lower LD) works on giving them cover fire.

I hope he tries it. Devastating to some armies. average against bugs but better againts bugs/bugs than a Piranha is and ultimately, fast enough if absolutely necessary to even charge a small group if needed to contest or pull an enemy off the objective. Lots of plus's.

Piranhas cant do most of what I just said. =)

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I did a battle report with this list. I will post it up as soon as I figure out how. I went through and did 30 second video burst sessions after every player turn.

I hope this works out,
Waffles

[Tau] 2k tourney

barnowl — GMT

Looking forward to seeing it.

[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

Just wanted to thabk everyone for their input. I will post up my list changes soon (I am using my phone at the moment). I placed second and lost 1st by a miss understandind of a quarky objective were a unit has to kill something worth twice its point total. My kroot took out a lemun russ squadron by themselves giving me the objective, and the oponent used 4 units\vehicles of between 55 and 100 points to take out a suit squad of 202 points. Since the highest was only 100 points, even though psykers and chimeras shot at my suit squad with the 100 point squadn he also got the objective making it go to a tie and he had the breaker.

Still very proud of my tau and I want to play against IG more. He is a good friend and an EXCLLENT player that deserved the sword.

Knowing what I do now, I would have shot at different things (damn psyker squad, lol) and maybe the game would have changed. As soon as I get ahold of the pictures I will do up a few battle reports.

Thabk you again for your help guys, and just a heads up: I won using vespid: haha!

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

Tun_Tau — GMT

and just a heads up: I won using vespid: haha!

Nice

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

STINGWINGS for the WINXOR

Automatically Appended Next Post:
He borrowed MINE I am proud to say

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snipped and paraphrased for clarity:

jazzpaintball wrote:
I placed second and lost 1st place by misunderstanding the secondary objective to kill something worth twice a units point total.
My kroot took out a lemun russ squadron by themselves though I just as easily could have attacked it with other units but did not) giving me the secondary objective (worth 6 points).
The IG oponent happened to use a combination of 4 units\vehicles to take out a suit squad of 202 points. Since the highest cost unit AMONG them was 100 points, he also got the Secondary objective making it go to a tie and he had the breaker.

I won using vespid: haha!

Misunderstanding the objective didn't GIVE those points to the IG enemy. The enemy took it by force as you did by kiling his Russ.

Part of being a tactician is recognizing when killing stuff might be less advantageous than position. You exposed a unit, no doubt to kill stuff, and left it where the secondary objective could be gotten and like a good opponnet does, the enemy took advantage and blew it up. My question on that one is: if we asked your opponent what that Crisis unit was killing, would he tell us it was mission critical?

I understand that several units contributed to the kill and that's why we instituted the rule that only the highest point unit counts beforehand. He had to use inferior units to kill you but he managed it. That's what the Legendary Heroes objective is all about.

So while it brought you to tie breakers, I have to say: you brought him down to the wire and there is NOTHING wrong with that, especially when you're talking about a guy whose placed 3rd at Ard Boyz nationals twice and has won a lot of tournaments. =)

I'd say you had a good day at the office. Congratz.

[Tau] 2k tourney

GoDz BuZzSaW — GMT

This list needs some Tetras, They are the Filth

Re:[Tau] 2k tourney

jazzpaintball — GMT

I would love to play with some tetras, but until we get a new codex that has tetras within, I wont be paying for them. I enjoy the game, but I can not bring myself to buy models I can not always play with.

[Tau] 2k tourney

Jancoran — GMT

Tetras are tasty.