Gharron wrote:HQ

Big Mek - KFF- 75
Big Mek - KFF -75
These are underpriced, they are 85 pts.
Troops
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
29 Boys 1 Nob PK/BP 225
Like someone has allready said. they can't fit in the Battlewagons. They need to be dropped to 20. Are they sluggas or Shootas? If they are Shootas might want to add a bshoota or 2.
Heavy Support
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Battlewagon Grot rigger Deff rolla kannon - 125
Not bad. Could use plank and plates. If a Mek goes in here then you don't need Grot riggers as he can fix it even easier then the grots can.
Elites
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal -175 - BW Same as heavy -125
Nobs - Cybork -painboy/PK Banner/PK/PK BP/ Big choppa/normal - 175 -BW Same as heavy -125
I think you might have one to many PK's. I think 2 is more then enough. but this is a personal choice of course.
Fast Attack
1 Deff kopta TL rokkit -45
1 deff kopta Tl Rokkit -45
Agree with Woodhouse, make them Rokkit buggies. They will help you a bit more. They can protect the BW's from assaults. If you want the Koptas, then the alpha strike koptas could be the answer.
So I think this is the standard list I got down to fast attack and didn't really know where to slam home the last 100 points so there are 10 to spare could I put a skorcha/shoota on the normal nob for a bit more DAKKA in on the wagons? Let me know what you guys think!

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

@Madmax: The burna wagon is nasty, but it is target number one for most people( at least those that knows what it does). Its just hard to justify taking it anymore.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I also tend to do shooty Orks more then CC Orks. I try not to get my Boys out of the BW's.

For the most part Sluggas would probably be better. But I just like to shoot with Orks. Its funny seeing people face when they die to Ork shooting.

I personally like Meganobs more as they are just so fun to play. Besides after you equip all your nobs they end up being just as much if not more then the Megnobs IMHO. But its reallly personal choice there.

Do you want Painboy? Do you want the Banner? Do you want better wound allocations? Do you want 2+ save models? All these are question that you should ask yourself to figure out which is better for you.

I honestly think Both squads are fun to use and just as good as the other. Its more what you feel you need to win.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:What do you mean expensive buggies? They are 40 points each the way I have them. Thats pretty cheap for what they do.

Well the whole Nob/ Meganob debate is really ultimatly your choice. You might want to try both out and see what you like better in the game. I feel both have there place and both are worth there points.

Ghazzy coming in with Snikrot is fun to do. But I am not really a big fan of it. You are holding up a 250 some point character in reserve. You don't know when he will come in and you don't want to waste that IMHO.

nitrodaddy1324 wrote:How is it possible to take more then 3 battle wagons, i mean according to the force organization chart you can only take 3. I would just like to know how?

nitrodaddy1324 wrote:And how afective is this????

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well its Slow & Purposeful. It means when the move they ahave to roll 2d6 and they get the highest die for there movement.

I don't think Ghaz is really neccesary. You can take just a normal Boss with them. Or none at all really.

Equiping them is pretty simple. You can give them a kombi weapon. Either Skorcha or Rokkit. If you were to do either of those I would do the skorcha. You don't have to roll to hit as its a template weapon. You can get more hits with it as well.

Tau can't hold up to Ork shooting.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well I would say you want the Meks BW's to be able to keep moving providing that cover save. So those first IMHO.

Ok, so switch the Kannons to BShootas. You are going for close combat, so you are going to be moving full speed. Won't be able to shooot kannons anyways. You just want the shootas to give you that wound from immobilized.

That should give you enough points to give both Nobs BW's and Both Mek's BW's Plates. That should be the first targets for most people anyways. You shouldn't really need them on the last BW. Again IMHO.

Leaves you 7 points if my Math is correct. Could upgrade one BW to have a kannon just in case type thing. Or try a plank on one BW.

Cheers!

AresX8 wrote:Ghaz is an absolute requirement for any Wagon list at 2k. Getting a guaranteed turn 2 assault is more than worth his points. EDIT: Plus, you can send him at a unit that neither the Boyz nor Nobs can handle, ie Paladins/Purifiers.

Mega Nobs also won't last as long as normal Nobs due to a lack of invuls, FNP and wound allocation shenanigans.

Also never take more than 4 Wagons. When you above 4, you start to put too many points into the Wagons, which takes away points from the absolutely vital support for the Wagons. The list right above me can be absolutely kited all game since it has ZERO support, it even has TWO KFFs! TWO! That's not necessary AT ALL!

I also have come to truly appreciate the power of Burnas. Having the option of dropping 15 Flamers from a transport on units that die through weight of die or remembering that they're still Boyz, so they're swinging with a max of 45 power weapon attacks on the charge really helps against units with FNP/have good armor is also worth the points.

AresX8 wrote:Ghaz is an absolute requirement for any Wagon list at 2k. Getting a guaranteed turn 2 assault is more than worth his points. EDIT: Plus, you can send him at a unit that neither the Boyz nor Nobs can handle, ie Paladins/Purifiers.

Mega Nobs also won't last as long as normal Nobs due to a lack of invuls, FNP and wound allocation shenanigans.

Also never take more than 4 Wagons. When you above 4, you start to put too many points into the Wagons, which takes away points from the absolutely vital support for the Wagons. The list right above me can be absolutely kited all game since it has ZERO support, it even has TWO KFFs! TWO! That's not necessary AT ALL!

I also have come to truly appreciate the power of Burnas. Having the option of dropping 15 Flamers from a transport on units that die through weight of die or remembering that they're still Boyz, so they're swinging with a max of 45 power weapon attacks on the charge really helps against units with FNP/have good armor is also worth the points.

Reckoner wrote:Ghazkull works best in a Green Tide style list, where you just footslog tons of boyz. The guaranteed 6'' Waaagh! gives your boyz an 18'' assault range.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well a regualr Boss can do that too. So Ghazz for that ability isn't worth it. Ghaz is a good character and his abilities are awesome. I just think he is better suited in the Tide which has allready been said.

I feel that Manz are better then Nobs. You just have to choose you target better with the Manz. I wouldn't try to fight a squad of Terminators with my Manz, but a Tac squad sure. I would rather use the Regualr Nobs for the terminators as they will have a save and have better diversity to deal with them. I tend to go towards the Manz more then the Nobs. The nobs squad can get pretty expensive.

As far as 5 BW's I don't think it is all that bad. Amror 14 is going to be hard to deal with at range for most armies out there, Especially armor 14 that gets saves all the time. Support would be an asset for sure. But its hard to choose what to take out to get that support. I am sure you will do good enough tonight to see what it lacks or has to much of. Go from there. Its really hard for us to know how you play, how the other player plays as well. Its all trail and error at this point.

Cheers and good luck!

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I do believe you have a pretty strong list. Now as long as you are not a complete idiot. No offense intended. You should do pretty well IMHO.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I would do 3 Skorchas. The rokkit probably won't hit. The skorchas also don't need to roll to hit. Its win win with the skorchas.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Yeah, Orks have no kind of Psychic defense at all.

Koptas seem to be hit or miss really. i myself have not had them work, but I do see the potential of them.

Glad to hear you pulled out the win. Its good to see Orks win. Especially when there was fun involved.

Now that you have seen what the list can do. What are some changes that you might want done to the list. I always ask this to people learning how to build lists and play new armies. Its a good exercise. I think anyways.

Runna wrote:Playing Space Wolves when running orks is always bittersweet because of JOTWW
It is so easily an ork heavy point killer that it can be really disheartening, and yet the orks still win, because the boyz just run over the wolves.

I run bikes with a nob Klaw or Nobz on bikes which is unneccesary in a BW list. So Bikes with a klawed Nob or Buggies would work for you.

Your playstyle, based off of your posts and wordings...I imagine you might enjoy the bikes more, but they are also less loved and you technically (I've been often told) get less for your buck.

They never fail me though, even...when they are just used to soak up fire...poor guys. You might try both and see which you like.
Though 2 squads of six with PK is exactly 350, I believe, wait, no, 370, sorry. You'd probably also want BP's. So, 380...
I guess buggies are better for your buck...

Inigo Montoya wrote:You need to drop 2 boys to put the meks in their wagons. I threw that together without fully thinking it out. Why cant you take the kannons - the frag is defensive. If you aren't taking kannons, put the points into armor plates on a couple of wagons and the 9th rokkit buggy.

dakkaguy wrote:I run a Speed Freaks Ork list at 1500 points, and the most recurring thing that I find is that Nobz are overkill. The only thing they'll be needed for is dealing with Termies. Otherwise they're kind of a waste of points. Don't get me wrong, I love my Nobz/painboy, but they're not worth it. Get another BW, or more Deffkoptas, or a Looted Wagon or 2.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Here is how I would run it:
Big Mek - kff
Big Mek - kff

5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla
5 Nobz - painboy, pk, pk+bp, waaagh! banner, slugga+choppa, battlewagon w/ kannon, boarding plank, red paint, deff rolla

20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp
20 boys - Nob w/ pk+bp

2 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits
3 warbuggies w/ rokkits

Here's my question. I wanted to run 6 nobs would I have to lose more buggies?

Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla
Battlewagon - kannon, red, deffrolla

That will clock you in at 1997 and it is dead killy.

This List is very mean. I think the Wagonsneed plates on them, but other then that. 5-6 nobs is really about the sweet spot. to mjuch more then that they are a points sink as they are to over powered.

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Reckoner wrote:

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

I've tried wagons with and without kannons. For 5 points more you get some more versatility and you can shoot at some armor if need be. It's never been a determining factor in any game I have played, and if you're using your wagons in a way that maximizes their mobility then just take the Big Shoota.

I have to ask, why do you think Ghazkull is a good addition to your BW list? For the load of points Ghazkull costs, his largest benefit is the upgraded Waaagh! which is a guaranteed 6'' fleet. That gives your forces (on the second turn or later) a 25'' assault range provided you have Red Paint on the wagons (13'' in the BW, 6'' run, 6'' assault). Without Ghazkull, this range will be somewhere between 20-25'' when you call your Waaagh! This is also not including the distance you disembark your boyz from your vehicle from. So with Ghaz you're guaranteed the maximum assault range, without it you're probably averaging about 2 feet. For me, I think 2 feet is plenty considering I moved 13'' in the first turn with the wagons before I could call my Waaagh! So you're looking at about 3 feet range from deployment to assault on turn 2 with Waaagh! Unless there is some weird deployment, you should be able to make that assault on turn 2. So that is why I do not think Ghazkull is necessary.

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

mercer wrote:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins


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Gharron wrote:

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Ghaz is better in a foot list than Battlewagon list as a foot list is slower. You should have a turn 2 assault in considering you start 12" from the board edge, move 13" thanks to RPJ, then next turn move 13" again, bail out 2" and run and assault 4" (average dice roll) giving you a total of 48". I don't think Ghaz is needed, you have speed already.

Hmmm, a Deffkopta would certainly help you for alpha strike, you using any of them? What wargear you got on the Battlewagons?

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

Reckoner wrote:

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

I kind of think you're going a little fast. You need to either sit down and read through the Rule Book more, not just your codex, or you should play some smaller point matches to get an idea for how the game is played. As it stands, there are some really basic rules you are unaware of and that is totally fine. But playing a 2000pt list before you know the rules very well, it won't matter how competitive looking the list is...if you don't have a solid understanding of the rules and tactics you won't have fun and you won't win.

For instance, you should definitely know that Lootas can not move and shoot because they are infantry, and their Deffguns are Heavy D3. Infantry can not move and fire Heavy weapons unless they have the Relentless rule. Vehicles can more and fire Heavy weapons because they are vehicles. You should be able to know off the top of your head the rules for Rapid Fire, Assault, Pistol weapons etc.

A KFF provides a Cover Save. It extends in a 6'' radius from the Big Mek or 6'' from the hull of any vehicle he is in. It provides a 5+ cover save for infantry, 4+ cover save for vehicles (the vehicle counts as being obscured). You should definitely know the difference between your saves. Cover Saves can only provide the save against shooting, you can't really take cover when someone is hacking your face with a close combat weapon. You should know off the top of your head how cover, armor, and invulnerable saves work.

And if someone has a unit that can outflank, if it allows them to choose any table edge like Snikrot does, then your Lootas are not safe near any table edge. That shouldn't really be a concern of yours though, because Lootas will run from some ranged fire sooner than someone successfully rolls for reserves and kills them. That's why you try to get them in cover or out of range of your enemies weapons and start targeting light armor first. If your opponent deepstrikes or outflanks the Lootas, well that's too bad but they just used that whole unit to take care of some Lootas. That's why I like splitting mine into units of 5, because if I lose one that way it's no big deal. These are things you learn by playing, not by talking about it. If you want my opinion, you need to step back and start thinking of some smaller lists and games that you can familiarize yourself with. Starting at the top with 40k will probably make you frustrated. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just went through the exact same thing when I started.

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

Reckoner wrote:

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

It's alright dude, I admire your interest in the game and it's great. Given your situation I understand that going through a more general introduction to the game is difficult.

My point is, this part of the forum is not for asking questions about rules that can be quickly and easily referenced in a rule book. We build and discuss army lists and tactics. Learning the rules comes through gradual introduction to the game and studying.

I have to ask, you mentioned you read your codex three times but do you have a rule book? That's really what you need to be studying. A rule book will help you understand the game, including other armies. As you have probably noticed, there are many rules in the ork codex that require the 40k rule book to be understood. I know that when I started out warhammer I thought I would just need my codex and I'd be fine learning on the go. This was certainly not the case for me, and I still frequently reference my rule book when I'm drawing up lists and while I'm playing. When an opponent asks you for clarification on a rule, are you going to come ask Dakka every time you don't know? Of course not.

A very handy condensed rule book (has all the rules, just not the fluff writing) comes with every set of Assault on Black Reach. You could probably find one of these for sale cheap on ebay or on the Dakka swap shop if you need one. If you do have a rule book, that's where you should be looking for answers for basic queries.

Until then, I still think you should try to get into lower point games first even if your closest store is an hour away. Heck, I used to play my armies against each other, it's a good way to learn!






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins

Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Reckoner wrote:

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Well assuming your Nobz are costed correctly, it's an interesting list...but a one-trick pony. 5 Wagons is bold, however no support from Lootas or Rokkit Buggies could really play into your opponent's hands. It's the sort of list that would be really successful against a standard gun-line army. But against something more complex, you would probably have to break the BW formation and having only 1 KFF will make it tricky.

Personally, I sort of like it. You leave nothing behind and the whole list is just one big charge. Give it a shot to determine its strengths and weaknesses. If you have points left over, Grot Riggers can be a good addition to your BWs (in every wagon except the one the Mek rides in, since Mek's tools does the same thing).

Edit: I just noticed this, your Big Mek with KFF definitely does not cost 170 pts. He should be 85 pts. Your wagons are also costed wrong, they should be 130 pts each. So I really don't know what your Nobz cost....you need to work out the math and come back with a revised list bro.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:I personally don't bother with grots anymore in KPs they are just a liability, In capture and control/Seize ground the enemy doesn't have to put that much on them to make them lose their objective. Maybe in Seize Ground but in Capture and Control I don't trust them to hold an objective so end up putting another troop unit there instead.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Warbuggies with Rokkits or Koptas?

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

Gharron wrote:

BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
Those are the BW's for now. Was going to look at them and see what I could do to them. I tried the kopta last time it just kinda sat there lol I dunno I also couldn't bring him in because of my opponents deployment so I had to swing him in the side and try to get rear armor it was a mess...I'm trying to lighten the load to get some buggies or make this list work in some way. Lol I'm not really sure what ghaz brings to the table a normal/meganob doesn't except more attacks and the big WAAAGH

Grace wrote:

Reckoner wrote:
Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Before you recommend all those, have you already calculated the odds?

Also, you send in boys squad with Pk Nob into Paladins? Really? Would you show me the odds?

Runna wrote:Give some shoota-skorcha's to some nobs somewhere. People who don't like shoota-skorchas...well...maybe you'll be one of them, but I love 'em. (TL is always TL, skorcha is one shot extra but template ST 5 AP 4 what a shot. Course you might ruin a good charge...with burnt bodies...muhahaha.)
Two Koptas, TL rokkits, 90pnts, buzzsaw on one...buzzsaw on both...140pnts...but you do not have it...you can afford to drop a WAAAGH!!! Banner. gives you 15pnts there.
A squad of 20 shootas in the back, 120pnts solid. Make it 21. 126.
2 seperate squads of ten shootas, whenever they get shot at, go to ground. They'll never run.
I usually do that, always saves my objective, one squad guarding the other squad, (but I also always add big shootas to my boyz. It helps pick off infantry, hasn't failed me)
DeffDread with two megablastas. Wait, how much is that, I never use those...um...might be exepensive...nope, 105pnts

Could also try five warbikers...but...125 pnts and they'd only be good for shooting and exsorbing fire. (3+ cover save on turbo)

I'd personally go 20 shootas, split in to two squads of ten or just as a whole.

My other pick is koptas. I love koptas, though they are hit and miss.

I didn't mention warbuggies, but 3 with TL rokkit is only 105, and you can field them seperately, which is really nice. Have extra points to give to nobz or wagons now.

Dred might be interesting, use extra points on your nobz or add a kannon to some of your BW's. (alla buggies.)

Ghaz has never failed me in a 2k point game, does anyone have a memory of Ghaz failing in a 2k pnt game?? That's my only defense for him against math or common sense which says just bring more boyz.

I love warbikers, but they don't get love from a lot of others, or without a nob with PK, their guns really are beautiful gunz though.

Did I mention that my big shootas on the boyz that stay in the back have more than once knocked Dark Eldar Vehicles out of the sky on their way to my objective, and that made me pretty happy I tell you.

Just throwing ideas

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

This is the problem with the game right now. People feel that they have to table people to win. You win by playing for the objective. If you by chance table him then Good for you. No one should ever try to table someone.


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I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well when I play Orks. I don't worry about "my home" objective. Which really is in only one mission. You only need one to win. Let it be theres. Why waste points sitting on an objective? Marines can do it because they have the armor, and the weapons to still give some support.

Now with the mission that you have d3+2. Well that is simple. Put the objectives where you plan on being. Towards the middle of the board or the other side of the board. That is where Orks should be. In the deployment zone by the end of the game. If you are not then you have allready lost, IMHO. Especially if you are Mech like you are.

Lootas are awesome, but I have never used them in a BW list. I just don't feel they fit. Even though I am a big Lootas fan. They don't really have the protection that they really need.

Its really tough for me to help, as I play my Wagon list totally different.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I have only played it once as a proxy. I have yet to get all the BW's I need. Non the less here is what I ran.

Mek:KFF
Mek:KFF

Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks
Manz x5: 2x Skorchas
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18: (Mek)
-Nob: PK, BShoota
Shootas x18:
-Nob: PK, BShoota

Kopta: Saw, Rokkit
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits
Buggies x2: Trakks, Rokkits

-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Planks (Mek)
-BW: Kannon, BShoota, Plates, Rolla, Riggers, Planks

My plan is to stay in Wagons with boys. Shooting everything, opening up vehicles with Rollas and Planks. Trakks provide cover both with shooting and assaults. Kopta hopefully gets a kill first turn.

Thats my plan, it worked pretty good the one time I played it to try it out.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I have mixed feeling about koptas. I have tried them. They have not worked. I feel adding one is not a problem. It adds that lone chance to kill somehting that could hurt. If you do use more then one, make sure they are in seperate squads. Their low LD makes them useless in bigger squads.

You can try them out, but They might not pay out for you all the time. They do have their potential though.

Grace wrote:
I can send in Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins and have a good chance of winning combat. You can't.

Grace wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

BW list don't use Dreads. What do you use to shoot at paladins?
True! I just use shootas to deal with them. The are only terminators after all. Small arms fire can kill terminatos just as easy as High str ones.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

It's not really a choice. He is the only efficient choice to deal with things like Paladins and TWCs.
Until his waagh is over, then he is just as good as a regular boss, IMHO. For almost double the points.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

Of course when you use him, make sure it counts. But this argument holds for anything. Also, I forgot to add something. You can charge Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins + Draigo, but you can't comfortably do that with 30 boys squad.
I do shooty Orks, so yeah I don't charge into most squads. I shoot them, comfortably I might say. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. It also depends on how they are coming at me. Are they DS'ing? Walking acrossed the oard? In a Land raider? Maybe even in a Stormraven? All of this really makes a difference.

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:You never answered my question, what can Ghaz do what others can't when against Paladins?

I can send in Ghaz into a squad of 5 paladins and have a good chance of winning combat. You can't.

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Reckoner wrote:
Uhh...yes. I play GK and Orks. Calculate the odds yourself. 120 Attacks on the charge in a unit of 30 boyz (not including the PK) vs. what, 7 attacks from Ghaz? Bear in mind that the Paladins can focus their attacks on a single character and not on a Nob, and also that Paladins get 2 attacks each for a total of 10 (assuming they are in a unit of 5). If they make those count against a single Character, there goes your assault. Against a mob of 30, it's not nearly enough to slow them. A mob of 30 boyz with pk bp nob costs roughly the same as Ghaz, and doesn't take up an HQ slot. A mob of 20 boyz is the largest size squad you can use in a BW list, which costs about 60 pts less. You're still getting over 80 attacks, you still should have a fearless squad after the first assault. Paladins lose to overwhelming dice rolls.

Ok. You just lost all your credibility.

First of all, the Paladins strikes first. Ok, so you didnt even get the basics right.
Next :-
5 Paladins, 10 attacks, 6.666 hits, 4.444 wounds, 4.444 dead orks.
25 orks, 4.16 wounds on the squad of Paladins.
1 Nob, 1.66 wounds on the Paladins, 0.693 unsaved wounds on Paladins (assuming 1 is allocated to Stave)

So ALREADY ASSUMING you get the charge, your odds of winning combat is only marginally higher than 50%.

Ghaz - 7 attacks, 3.889 wounds, 2.106 dead Paladins - 4 wounds
Paladins on Ghaz - 10 attacks, 0.416 unsaved wounds on Ghaz.

Ghaz COMFORTABLY wins combat.

My argument is simply - without Ghaz (in BW list), you don't have EFFICIENT ways to deal with Paladins. Key word being EFFICIENT.

Oh ya, also ANYTHING lose to OVERWHELMING dice rolls ; anything dies to 1,000 dice rolls, don't they?
It's the efficiency that counts.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Why would ghaz not have a 2+ invulnerable when he assaults the paladins? If he had the waaagh! used up then he will most assuredly be in a nobs mob or a mob of boys.

Any savvy player is going to save the waagh! for the charge on the paladins! That is how you use it. To assume that he just blindly charged into your deathstar is disingenous.

The paladins cannot stand up to ghaz on the waagh!, no amount of what-ifs will change that.

Is he the best choice for a battlewagon list? Not in my opinion.
Will he decimate 5 paladins on the charge with his waagh!? Nearly every time!

Gharron wrote:Sounds like I need some shootas XD
I think (Only talking with my list as everyone else has had shootas) We would be letting the rollas and like my first list of lootas or even now burnas get ahold of pallys after being rolled and some shooting. It just doesn't seem smart to charge GK's with no ability like wolves to stop their psychic powers (Without having softened them up in someway)
Overall I know I have ALOT of gk players in my area. I know of 4 just off hand some playing henchman some playing purifiers and of course draigowing...I just haven't had the great and wonderful chance to play them (sarcasm) I've only played space wolves as of yet and I had my meganobs and the got tied up with wolf cav. so it just felt like they fell short =[
How does ghaz do so well against paladins? I know he's like a warboss on steroids (with his waagh) but I don't see him going completely ham on a squad and walking away unscathed and ready for the next potential 2-3 squads...

Reckoner wrote:

Gharron wrote:Sounds like I need some shootas XD
I think (Only talking with my list as everyone else has had shootas) We would be letting the rollas and like my first list of lootas or even now burnas get ahold of pallys after being rolled and some shooting. It just doesn't seem smart to charge GK's with no ability like wolves to stop their psychic powers (Without having softened them up in someway)
Overall I know I have ALOT of gk players in my area. I know of 4 just off hand some playing henchman some playing purifiers and of course draigowing...I just haven't had the great and wonderful chance to play them (sarcasm) I've only played space wolves as of yet and I had my meganobs and the got tied up with wolf cav. so it just felt like they fell short =[
How does ghaz do so well against paladins? I know he's like a warboss on steroids (with his waagh) but I don't see him going completely ham on a squad and walking away unscathed and ready for the next potential 2-3 squads...

]

A lot of the previous posts were debating how useful Ghaz is. The result seems to be that he can perform well against a Paladin squad when he charges in during Waaagh! However once that wears off his save is no longer invulnerable and therefore his survivability drops drastically.

Inigo Montoya wrote:He is a beast. In a foot army he is indispensable - giving what is left of 180 boyz fleet to charge - holy cow that is unreal.

In a battlewagon list he is overpriced for what you need. He is still beast, but not really needed.

Reckoner wrote:I've seen Mad Dok used in a foot slogging list, not very successfully though. The concept was that he would be attached to a large boyz mob in the front which would have the invulnerable save and then screen the mobz behind it. Sort of pointless when you could just take a Big Mek w/ KFF and do almost the same thing.

With independent characters you really have to look at the special rules they provide first, then look at their cost. If they are providing something to your list that is worth the points difference between them and a regular HQ then they might be worth taking. However, most lists involving a character are built mostly around that character to maximize the benefit they provide. (Crowe Purifiers, Draigowing, Wazdakka Bikers, Ghazkull Tide etc...) As far as I know, there is no Ork IC that provides a dramatic benefit to a Battlewagon Rush list.

LOL. It's the same. You don't even know the BASIC. I need not say more.

Grace wrote:

Reckoner wrote:Sorry to spoil your nerdgasm. The base strength for Ork boyz is 3. The base initiative for Ork boyz is 2.

LOL why are you speaking the obvious. I think almost everyone knows that. At least anyone who plays ork. Not sure what you trying to prove here

Reckoner wrote:You can comfortably win one combat. If Ghazkull makes it to that combat. Multiple boyz squads means more areas of the field can be covered. The flexibility added to my combat choices with Ghaz is that I have one extra unit that will perform better, for the one turn I Waaagh! Apart from that, not amazing returns on my investment.

"More areas of the field" ? I seriously don't know what GAK you are talking about, LOL .
For the turn that Ghaz waaghs, he performs MUCH MUCH better than a squad of 30 boys at the same cost. (Ghaz takes 0.416w, deals 4Ws)
For the turn that Ghaz does not waaaghs, he still performs better than a squad of 30 boys at the same cost. (Ghaz takes 1.6w, deals 4Ws)
So seriously, I once again don't see what you are talking about, except that you are arguing for the sake of arguing, LOL.

Reckoner wrote:
Yes, a second Big mek. In a list with 5 BWs, a second KFF is valuable. It means more protected flexibility and mobility options with the wagons.

Please show us your list at 1750 or 2k. We would like to see how "AWESOME" it is. Without that, i can't comment on your choice.

Reckoner wrote:You did the math and found out he was more efficient in killing Paladins for one turn out of the game. Good job. How about the rest of the game, or other Paladin squads?

I did too Did you even READ? Not only you can't get the basics right, you can't do math, but you can't read as well. You know what? Throughout the whole argument, you were just riding on my mathhammer. I suspect you don't really know how to calculate your odds when considering the pros and cons of units.

Reckoner wrote:
Again with the excessive acronymized nerdgasming. It has to stop. The way balsak plays is he shoots from the Battlewagons. If played correctly, Paladins can't scratch the AV14 front with ranged. He just kites them. It's a way of dealing with Paladins; is it the best way? Nobody ever said that. You've just lost all your credibility for being a douche.

LOL? And then what? Paladins hit your wagons on 4+ in assault. AWESOME.

Reckoner wrote:Yeah, you proved me wrong alright. I didn't think it was possible for someone on this forum to have a more bloated and misconstrued opinion of themselves.

Maybe I am. But the opportunity arose because the person i m speaking against has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. I think if you had talked sense (or maybe at least got the basics right), that wouldnt have happen

Grace wrote:LOL. Then lets forget about the argument. Because the 2+ is one of the best thing Ghaz has. You might as well say I play with 500 points handicap . It is for that 2 players turn that I set up myelf to make it count. If you do not know how to make the best use of it to make it count, then it's your problem as a general, not the unit.

Runna wrote:Doesn't the mad Dok give those 30 boyz 9FnP as per his wargear special rules??? (not gonna check tired, lazy.)
I always wanted to run him in a tankbusta heavy list for some reason.
That's a random notion I can throw at you, I love Tankbustas, I love fielding them, and I win with them, but a lot of people don't like them.
So, the more you play, the more you'll find what units work better for you.
If you don't like shooting, man, run the sluggas. (Though I bet you grow into liking the dakka ork lists can put out.)
I'd say keep the two KFF's because you also have two meks who can repair your wagons on hand with it.
Warbuggies get the 4+ cover save from that forcefield, which is also useful if you go the way of the buggy.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

reds8n wrote: Apologies for the above.

It's truly astonishing how barren and meaningless some people's lives are eh ?

Ah, I missed what he had to say. lol

It takes all types I guess..


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grace_laughs wrote:
Amusuing, isnt it?

Why, Yes you are!

Brother Taurinus wrote:Oh yeah, flame wars. When I saw Balsak, Reckoner, and Mercer here, I knew I couldn't say anything they wouldn't cover so I just bowed out of this thread

Gharron, I'll tell you right now, those three won't steer you wrong. I have a weird gamer fantasy that someday the lot of us could meet up and start a WAAAGH!!! that would consume the better half of Imperial space.

After reading all that, it's difficult to remember some of the questions, so:

Lootas do mesh well with the Battlewagon rush. Being stationary doesn't matter, just leave them in terrain and let them blast away....they're happier for it.

Meganobz are fine, and a fantastic "bang for your buck" purchase. A nob w/PK and 'EA costs 50 points, and only has a 4+ save. No, you can't get FNP, Cybork, or full diversified benefits....it's a trade-off.

You don't necessarily need shoota boyz. It's just a different strategy.

Ghaz is a beast, but IMO, overpriced for a BW rush. I believe that he shines within a Green Tide, where many massive units of boyz can benefit from that 6" run. Incidentally, someone mentioned that he gives them fleet. The WAAAGH!!! gives them fleet, with or without Ghaz. He just guarantees a 6" run and gives them fearless(but the mob sizes probably means they are anyway), and himself an invulnerable save.

I'm not a fan of Kommandos in a mechanized list. I think they're fine for foot slogging.

Here:
My Sampler Platter 2k Battlewagon list

It's a bit of everything, and you can use points to substitute meganobz for nobz.

Brother Taurinus wrote:Well, like I've said before, I've never run the same list twice so far....I just throw things together....now the difference may be subtle, like dropping a couple warbikers for a couple more lootas, or whatever, but it's different each time. I do like having a burna wagon, though it replaces a boyz wagon.

The IC is Mad Dok Grotsnik....and yes, any infantry or jump infantry can take cybork for 5 points, but he's a pain to use, since he and his unit gain rage. This isn't necessarily a BIG problem, but placement dictates your target, and you can't exercise your discretion. Other than that, he's an underpowered warboss with a PK and dok tools(FNP).

Hmm, I have the five wagons and I have burnas and lootas to cover most lists that you guys have thrown up...I just worry with lootas because there's a guy who has snikrot in his army and I worry about leaving lootas behind to get cut down by them...

Gharron wrote:
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Brother Taurinus wrote:

Gharron wrote:
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

This one?

So it's 2 KFF's for the points, and you took two mobs of 19 obviously to go within.

Those battlewagons only cost 130 points for what you have listed. You've spent 1848 points, leaving you with 152. If you leave it the way it is, you could take a couple suicide koptas and add a couple shoota/skorchas. I'm not big on suicide koptas....when they work, they work well.....when they don't, they're lost points. Crap shoot. You could take a unit of 10 lootas...I'd rather field 2 x 5 but there are two elites taken up with nobz.

This list is killy, Gharron. It's a great "In your face" list. I personally prefer a little ranged punch, which I normally get with some lootas and/or rokkit buggies. They can pick off dreadoughts, small units pestering you, pop tansports, etc., and give your list a whole new level.

If I were to make minor tweaks, it would be like this: Drop a PK from each nob unit...while I like 3, I believe that 2 will carry you to victory. 202 points. Add 3 rokkit buggies. 97 points left. 5 lootas. 22 points. 4 x shoota/skorchas. 1998 spent. Move that WAAAGH!!! Banner to the PK/BP nob.....I like leaving him for last. Add a couple shoota/skorchas to each unit....say 1 on the nob who USED to have a PK....and the other on any except the regular nob. You still have wound allocation....and a charge will most likely get you around 5 MEQ deaths from the PK's alone....which will wipe out a small unit, or most likely get them during THEIR assault phase which is even better.....you don't get shot, and you're available to move, shoot, assault again on YOUR next turn.

The lootas give you some transport popping capability....though I prefer a couple units. The rokkit buggies do the same, and also screen your wagons, gaining the cover save and can block enemy assaults.




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Reckoner wrote:[ As for your fantasy, weird? I wouldn't say so. Unlikely? Yeah...only because half of Imperial Space would just be an appetizer

Hah! So true! I eat marines for breakfast. Seriously. I pour pancakes into marine shapes and eat them. My daughter has taken a liking to Orks and 'nids, so I've begun the process of training for a second generation MEQ eater

Oh, you can't keep the Dok in a transport, he has rage, gives it to any unit he joins, and can't leave the unit until it's destroyed. The FAQ allows for him to enter a transport....as long as it's used to get him closer to the closest enemy unit(at max movement though flat out isn't required).

Brother Taurinus wrote:Don't worry or stress too much, bro. You'll find that Orks are a very resilient race and army to play.....you usually have room for a few "mistakes" here and there, and even if you don't win, you'll have put up a good fight and show for it.

I used to post constantly, but recently my workdays are 12-20 hours....so I hit a couple here and there on my crappy phone....but home sick today so I could look into more posts....though I really should be modeling....lol....guess I'll pull them out in a few. With luck, I'll finish modeling all my Orks and can start the laborious process of painting the rest. I also need to see how many 25mm bases I have unused so I know how many "sprue-magants" I'm gonna make.....cause God knows I don't have enough for my Tervigons, lol.

Don't worry or stress too much, bro. You'll find that Orks are a very resilient race and army to play.....you usually have room for a few "mistakes" here and there, and even if you don't win, you'll have put up a good fight and show for it.

I used to post constantly, but recently my workdays are 12-20 hours....so I hit a couple here and there on my crappy phone....but home sick today so I could look into more posts....though I really should be modeling....lol....guess I'll pull them out in a few. With luck, I'll finish modeling all my Orks and can start the laborious process of painting the rest. I also need to see how many 25mm bases I have unused so I know how many "sprue-magants" I'm gonna make.....cause God knows I don't have enough for my Tervigons, lol.

Runna wrote:I remember that faq about the Mad Dok now, and thus I remember why I don't run him.

(But one day I will field a horde of Cybork Gretchin, I swear it.)

Also, definately go with the buggies, or the two koptas with buzzsaw, as you have the points.

Fielding Lootas in a squad of 9, I completely agree with that. I want to field two squads of 9 myself, or 8, (model reasons, damn burna box.) Lootas are in all my all comer lists.

I love Ghaz, please don't throw him away, mine is all in pieces from moving, made me sad, the though of someone tossing a good one out on the account of someone who isn't making their point without sounding condecending or being rude by attacking or belittling someones personal character is unneccesarry.

It's not that you didn't make a point Grace, it's more the way you made it, and then hypocritically threw down the argument where players said they had other options and simply didn't agree Ghaz was "neccessary", you could have met them half way, but you did what you accused them of doing and completely threw down any points they tried to make whilst putting yours back up with obvious spite.

Seriously though, don't throw Ghaz