<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV
disclaimer: I am pretty new to 40k and thus don't have a huge stock of miniatures to play around with and neither have the budget to stock up on a lot of stuff (just bought a new apartment). Any help is greatly appreciated

So, let's begin.

Enemies:

I play at our local scene that is dominated by vehicles. My main enemies are Blood Angels (mech) and Imperial Guard (mech). Both BA usually field a Stormraven and at least 2 Dreadnoughts including a Libby Bot and the infamous "wtf balance" blender dread. The IG player plays very friendly lists including biped vehicles thus is much less of a bother than those dreaded BA.

What I fear:

1) The Stormraven + Dreadnought. When it manages to drop the blender dread, it's pretty much gg for any troops we can field besides Wraiths. Our usual AV aka scarabs are utterly useless unless Wraiths reduce the Dreadnought's I to 1 first. Else, he just mows through those bases. Furthermore, the Stormraven can always fire at least one weapon. Sigh.

2) Death Company. FNP makes Tesla pretty weak, not to speak of Gauss. And, of course, once they get in melee, I am done for.

3) Transpors: The usual overpowered garbage of under-costed transports...less of a problem as they usually field 1-2 Razorbacks, but still a bother.

What I planned to do:

HQ

1 Overlord on Barge (Gauss)
- MSS
- Warscythe

No-brainer, he can easily shred vehicles...when given the chance to. As he is my only vehicle, I fear him melting (literally) in turn 1-2, hopefully, he managed to deal some damage first.

Court
- Destruction
- Destruction
- Destruction
- Destruction

Pretty bland. S8 DS2 allows me to bypass FNP and hopefully shut that damn Stormraven / Razorbacks / Dreadnoughts down.

Troops

5 Immortals
- Tesla

5 Immortals
- Tesla

Those guys are slightly more expensive than Warriors but are supposed to take care of the infantry I will still have to face.

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

The average escort group for my Harbringers.

As you can see, standard MSU. What I fear, though, is that the units are too small and get killed before they can be used to their maximum effectiveness aka spam rockets. My main reasoning behind MSU though is that once in melee, I lose anyway, so smaller units mean less losses on my part.

Fast Attack

2 Heavy Destroyers

Their main purpose is to shut heavy vehicles down at range, especially that dreaded Stormraven and the Dreadnoughts.

8 Scarab bases

Nomnomnom stuff in melee (anything but the Blender), maybe even get the Stormraven down. Is a unit of 8 bases a good idea though? Can't get higher due to the point limit, could maybe squeeze out one more by taking the MSS away.

3 Wraiths
- 2 Whip Coils

Kill stuff in melee, take care of the Dreadnoughts, maybe help the Scarabs. And, of course, look awesome. I don't really want to get rid of them in the list as I am downright in LOVE with the models


That's about it...I am highly interested in any feedback and help regarding the list or how to tackle the problem in general...but overall, I really feel Necrons lacking some solid AV (yes, I am looking at you, lack of melta weapons!). Then again, keep in mind that this comes from a newbie

That's my overall stock of models:

20 Warriors
10 Tesla Immortals
5 Gauss Immortals
10 Scarabs
4 Heavy Destroyers
1 Destroyer Lord
1 Overlord
1 Lord
1 CCB / Annihilation Barge
1 Monolith (unassembled, since a monolith at 1k seems rather pointless to me)
3 Wraiths
5 Harbingers

(I can still turn 10 Warriors to Deathmarks, but don't see the point...)

Thanks in advance for any helpful comment!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301057.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301057.page GMT [Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV (or "better" stuff, anyway).
I don't think that list is going to be able to do much of anything.

Against asaulty armies, MSU is just offering them up delicious kill points. If I was playing that game, fight fire with fire: balls-to-the-wall aggression... but that's going to call for some new/different stuff.

You have one real threat at the moment (the Command Barge), and any competent player will just take it out from a distance, and the game is theirs.

3 Wraiths? 3 Wraiths won't be able to accomplish much of anything, apart from basically be a speed bump (I really hope that's not how you were hoping on playing them, or you'l be wasting one of the best units in the codex).
I'd say either 5 minimum, or don't even bother with them.
Get another box of Wraiths, attach your Destroyer Lord... suddenly that blender dread don't look so scary anymore.

Alternatively, a couple of Doom Scythes would be an interesting twist.
As would a couple of Stalkers and a bunch of Destroyers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301210.page GMT [Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV
skoffs wrote:Frankly, you might need more stuff.
(or "better" stuff, anyway).

3 Wraiths? 3 Wraiths won't be able to accomplish much of anything, apart from basically be a speed bump (I really hope that's not how you were hoping on playing them, or you'l be wasting one of the best units in the codex).
I'd say either 5 minimum, or don't even bother with them.


This.

As Skoffs said, you are probably going to need more stuff if you want to deal properly with the problem. However, given you aren't in a position to buy more stuff, have a play around with a couple of ideas below and see if any of them help.

a) Use a named overlord. Given your models, check out Anrakyr, because Mind in the Machine may let you take over the storm raven and use IT to shoot the dread. He will also upgrade one squad of immortals to eternals (free)

b) You need to think about the cryteks you are taking in the msu units. so, maybe think about using a Chronotek in combination with a lancetek to improve your chances of actually doing something with the shot. So, your MSU squad may be something like 5 warriors, lancetek, chronotek. Also, remember you can can re-roll 1 D6 EACH PHASE. So, once for shooting and once for assault (maybe to reanimate).

c) Use the lords more to make the msu tougher. So, maybe have a lord with war scythe, mss combined with a lancetek in with the warriors.

d) use the royal court as a royal court. So, split out a couple of lanceteks to msu, but keep say 2 lanceteks, a chronotek and a lord with MSS, Scythe, SW and 1 orb (or even 2 lords) as a mini death star.

I'm interested in this because I play a lot of 1000pt games (mainly for time reasons) so I'll have a think and post a list. However, I don't have destroyers or wraiths so you may want to play with whatever I post a bit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple of list ideas, working within your models. These may not be any better, but may give you some ideas anyway . With these lists, I'm trying to give a bit more survivability to the smaller msu groups, while creating something else for the opponent to worry about.


AnakCron (1000)

1000 pt AnakCron

HQ
Anrakyr with CCB (245)
Overlord (Scythe, MSS, SW) (130)

Royal Court A (110)
Lancetek X1
Chronotek
Stormtek, Lightning

Royal Court (b) (90)
Lancetek x2, Pulse

Troop
Warrior x 5 (65) (Lancetek X2, Pulse.)
Gauss Immortal x5 (85) (Lancetek, Chronotek)

10 Immortal X 10 (170) (Upgrade to Eternals, Stormtek, Overlord)

Fast Attack
Scarabs x 7 (105)

The idea with this is that you play aggressively with Anrakyr (MitM - use their vehicles to shoot their other vehicles - but note you have to disembark from the barge to use it) and the Eternals. The StormTek Voltaic staff with Haywire is a good vehicle stopper, and the Eternals have Furious Charge and Counterattack. Having another overlord allows some wound allocations and provides a bit. It would be better for the overlord to have a res orb (which you could do by dropping a lancetek). Now, the opponent has a CCB plus this unit, as well the Gauss Immortals (not a fan of these, prefer tesla, but see where they might be useful) whose lancetek should be more effective with the chronotek.


Now, the royal court deathstar idea



1000 pt Court Cron

Anrakyr with CCB (245)
Overlord (Scythe, MSS, SW) (130)

Royal Court A (110) (Joins Overlord)
Lancetek X1
Chronotek
Stormtek, Lightning

Royal Court (b) (90)
Lancetek x2, Pulse

Troop
Warrior x 5 (65) (Lancetek X1, Pulse.)
Gauss Immortal x5 (85) (Lancetek)

Tesla Immortal X 10 (170) (Upgrade to Eternals)

Fast Attack
Scarabs x 7 (105)

Basically the same list, but now the overlord and the royal court are walking around together. I haven't play tested this, and have concerns that it would die fast. However, it will certainly distract attention. To make it more survivable, you'd probably want to play with points to get a res orb (and preferably a Lord with SW or PS) into it because as it stands massed shooting will probably down this lot pretty quickly. You could do that by dropping the warrior squad and putting the points into a res orb and Phase shifter for the overlord). You can always then detach the overlord for more fun and target separation later.


Finally, a slightly more mobile list based around the destroyers you have.



1000 pt Destroyer Cron

Destroyer Lord SW, MSS (160)
Overlord, Scythe, MSS, SW (130)

Court (165)
Lancetek X2, Pulse
Chronotek
Stormtek, Lightning

Troops
5 x Warriors (65) Lancetek, Chronotek
5 x Gauss Immortals (85) Lancetek
5x Tesla Immortals (85) Stormtek, Overlord

Fast Attack
Destroyers x4, 3 Heavy (220)

Heavy Support
Annihilation barge (90)

I don't have destroyer models so can't tell you whether this is workable. Note however, that now you have a Destroyer Lord plus destroyers running around as well as the AnniBarge (AP- is not the best, but at least it is twin linked and you get extra hits with Tesla).


Hope something in these lists gives you some ideas. I'm sure Dakka will improve on the above anyway!!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301265.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301265.page GMT Re:[Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV
I forgot to mention that we play without named characters, so Anrakyr is out of the list (pity, I would have certainly included him else, also thought about Zandrekh making my Destroyers AP 1...).

Regarding the MSU issue of quickly being wiped - would it be different with bigger units? Especially vs. BA, I don't see any way on how Warriors / Immortals would stand a chance against their assault troops, let alone the ridiculous Death Company. Any experience on that matter?

The problem with letting the squads join more Harbringers / Lords is that it requires you to buy a second Overlord...that comes at at least 100 points aka 1/10 of the point limit. Thus your last list is illegal since a Destroyer Lord does not unlock another Royal Court...screw you GW! HE IS A LORD!

I also like the idea of the super-deathstar aka Wraith + Destroyer Lord, but that's almost 50% of the point limit

I guess I'll play around with the Wraith idea, let' see what you can do with them...thanks again so far, keep it coming

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301522.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301522.page GMT Re:[Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV
Sigvatr wrote:I also like the idea of the super-deathstar aka Wraith + Destroyer Lord, but that's almost 50% of the point limit
Necron lists tend to get that way in low point games (you usually have to pick one tactic and throw everything into it, eg. Scarabs Farm, Wraith Wing, Tremor-Crons, Stalker-linking-shooty-army, etc. All of them will require you to invest a lot of points in a particular idea, and at the under 1500 point level, that ends up taking about half of the points).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would HIGHLY recommend you invest in either a second Wraith or Command Barge box (or both!) to round out your army.

If you go for the Wraiths, maybe try something like this:

1000 Wraith Leader
Overlord (MS.Scarabs, P.Shifter, W.Scythe, Command Barge) = 240
2 Ho Destruction (1x Pulse) = 90
Destroyer Lord (Scythe, MS Scarabs, Weave) = 160

5 Immortals = 85
5 Immortals = 85

6 Wraiths (3x Coils, 2x Caster) = 250

TOTAL = 910
Now, you'll have 90 points left. With that you can either get some Scarabs, an Annihilation Barge, or another unit of Immortals/buff up your existing ones.

Alternatively, you can drop all of the Overlord's gear except the Warscythe, a Wraith with the Particle Caster, as well as a Lance-tek, which would free you up 225 points, while still giving you all the basic things the list has/needs (two MAJOR threats in the deathstar and the Barge-Overlord, as well as the Solar Pulse for a turn of long range protection). With that, you'll have plenty of points to fool around with... though, to synergize with that list, you may need to invest in some additional models (second Wraith unit + drop the Destroyer Lord and add a second Barge Overlord).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301579.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4301579.page GMT Re:[Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV
I really like the list you posted though I do fear losing my standards soon...then again, the BA player is likely to field only up to 2 capturing standards himself (Death Company squad of 10 + GG-bot can't hold objectives, leaving his squad of 10 assault troops that might be split in 2x5), so there's a chance this could work out!

Considering the other idea of 2 CCB, what about this list?

HQ

Overlord on barge w/Scythe
- MSS
- Weave

Overlord on barge w/Scythe
- MSS

2x Harbringer of Destruction

Troops

5 Immortals
5 Immortals
5 Warriors (reserve, walk in to capture the home objective)

Fast Attack

2 Heavy Destroyers

4 Wraiths
- 2x Coils
- 1x Blaster


I forgot about my old Wraith conversion I made back when there were no models for them, aka "Lychguard on snake tail". I like the look of the model and it might simply represent the squad's "leader".

Might also drop the HD to give the other OL another Weave and replace the HD with 7 Scarabs...I am kinda bent to use the HD as I just finished the conversion of 2 regular Destroyers, but I like the idea of having scarabs around...yet the HD might also deny the dreaded DC's FNP.

I do love the idea of a CCB hovering over a flying Stormraven just to split it apart...lovely.

On further regard, I recently read something about scarabs surrounding a Stormraven's base thus destroying all of its crew when it's destroyed...can anyone elaborate on that strategy? Right now, I don't see how you can surround your enemies in 1 charge action.

Keep it comin' ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4302755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4302755.page GMT [Necron] [1000] Metal on Metal, in need of AV CCB, larger unit of scarabs to focus attention away from the troops and to provide a couple of credible threats.

In smaller lists, whenever possible, I use Immortals because of the 3++ save. Against assault armies (I play vs Nids, BA, vanilla SM (although we play for fun and the lists aren't optimised) beefing up the squads with a cryptek (or cryptek and lord) helps to provide a deterrent to assault - and maybe you'll tie up one of their units for a turn. They aren't going to be brilliant, but they may tarpit for a turn. If the dice gods are (very!) kind you may actually not get swept and might win (against 5, not 10).

I'm currently testing a larger blob (15-20) warriors with a phaeron and ghost ark support (1000pt list). Problem with this is that once it gets assaulted it either runs off the table or gets swept. So, vs Nids particularly, not that great an option for me.

Skoffs' advice was spot on. You'll need to get another CCB barge kit and wraiths and give yourself more options.

Re your revised list 4 wraiths and 2 HD strike me as a bit of "having it both ways" and as a result I think both are less of a threat.

Why not focus on one or the other (so drop wraiths in one list, add your remaining HD/Destroyers, use remaining points for another cryptek then in the other drop HD) and see how that looks to you.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4303296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450630/4303296.page GMT