<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list I've been using a pdf of the codex to plan out what to get, what do you think?
I'm going to be buying these in August.

HQ: Vargard Obyron

Elites: Lychguard w/ Warscythes

Elites: Triarch Stalker

Troops: 10 Warriors

Troops: 10 Warriors

Troops: 5 Immortals

Fast Attack: Canoptek Scarabs (5 Bases)

Fast Attack: Canoptek Wraiths w/ Whip Coils

Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark

Heavy Support: Monolith

Vargard would be attached to the Lychguard, that means 19 S7 Power Weapon attacks that roll 2d6 for armour penetration on the charge, also they can take advantage of Vargard's ghostwalker mantle to deep strike around as they wish, pulling out of assaults if they have to.

The wraiths will target ICs and other tough units, taking advantage of the whip coils (enemy models in base contact strike at initiative 1)

The Doomsday ark will sit back and fire

the Triarch stalker will hunt down tanks and vehicles

The monolith will deep strike in a couple of turns in and kill things

everything else will just advance like usual.

Opinions? Remember I haven't played Necrons before

Thanks,

Omegaspectre.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303121.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list You're going to need crypteks. You need to take advantage of the abilities and powers they provide.
Monoliths, as of now, are not as good as they used to be. Get a CCB instead so either your HQ can fly around or to make an Annihilation Barge.
Also, since you're just starting out, you should wait on the lychguard until you can play in larger games.
Hope that helps!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303342.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303342.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
a. Wraiths are usually a better CC unit than Lychguard. They are faster, tougher, and have a better Invuln save. Lychguard are slow and hard to catch anything with, though they are devastating to anything they do chase down.

b. Royal Courts are great. Plan out getting some - converting Lychguard with Deathmark heads and the Praetorian staffs make great Crypteks.

c. Your HS choices aren't good. Annihilation Barges are awesome in all ways, and Doom Scythes are scary powerful, if expensive and fragile.

c. Some transports will help tremendously. I love Ghost Arks and Warriors, but Veil Crypteks and Immortals are good too. I can't say if Night Scythes are a good choice for Immortals, but they are the only game in town for that purpose.

d. Catacomb Command Barges are really good, even though Obryon can't get one.

e. The Triarch Stalker is good, but more anti-vehicle shooting (Eldritch Lances mostly) is necessary to get the most out of it. 150 pts for the Heat Ray is expensive for that kind of fire platform on its own.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303831.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4303831.page GMT Re:Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list )

As you look like you are basing your army around a battle force, I suggest you check this thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450105.page

There were a number of suggestions about how to get the most models out of the battle force kit. Couple of other things:

1) You are going to want more crypteks and lords.
2) CCB/Anni Barge. These have overlord models in the boxes.
3) Get 6 wraiths, as general consensus is 3 is not enough.
4) Consider building the Lychguard with Swords and Boards, cos the 4+ invul save. That leaves you with staffs to make the crypteks.
5) Perhaps don't buy the monolith straight up? consider spyders or another stalker with another doomsday ark (noting that doomsday arks are generally accepted as easy to kill).

With the Doomsday ark model, I read somewhere (might even have been on Dakka!) that you can magnetise the model to give you the option of the DA or the GA (if you can live without the damaged necrons in the GA).




]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304081.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list

So if I built the barge as an annihilation barge, I can then build an overlord as well for a second HQ choice?

Or should I get an annihilation barge + spyder instead of the wraiths? Or even tomb blades?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304095.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304095.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Yep, the barge will give you another overlord.

Re the lychguard with Obyron, it is a damaging unit. However, not near my codex, but I don't think Obyron has an invul save. Using sword and board lychguard give you invul saves which I think are essential given where you will want that unit to be (in the enemy face!!). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304125.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304125.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304131.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304131.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list CC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304529.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304539.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304539.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Overall I see a HUGE lack of anti-tank and a HUGE lack of protection/speed for your forces (no transports and no solar pulse).

Omegaspectre wrote:
HQ: Vargard Obyron


I really don't feel that this guy fits. It also looks like you're building a mini-deathstar here. Personally I don't like them at all, they tend to be one-dimensional and fail miserably whenever you aren't playing against noob lists or players.

Elites: Lychguard w/ Warscythes

If you really want a Lychguard deathstar (a bad idea IMO), they need the shield+sword combo. Lychgaurd are slow and have no transports. They are going to get shot to pieces by all assortment of scary weapons so you need them to survive. You'll especially need it in CC as well since they aren't that great at it (I2, WS4, average armor, expensive as heck).

They have a long, long way to walk to get into CC. And if you use Obryons veil you can't assault, which means once again you are easy to avoid and will get you shot to pieces. Plus it's a huge risk to mishaps when trying to DS that close to the enemy.

Lychgaurd are a much better counter-assault unit than an assault unit.

Elites: Triarch Stalker

What gun do you have on this? Be very careful, it may be AV13 to start, but it's one of the only vehicle you have so it will take a LOT of the enemy's AT fire.

Troops: 10 Warriors

Troops: 10 Warriors

Troops: 5 Immortals


No Phaeron or transports will hurt here. Not a bad set-up, but you may be hurting very fast very quickly as you'll spend 1 to 2 turns walking to shooting range.

What guns to the immortals have?

Fast Attack: Canoptek Scarabs (5 Bases)

Decent enough sized unit.

Fast Attack: Canoptek Wraiths w/ Whip Coils

You are hitting in three distinct waves with your list. Wraiths + Scarabs (in small numbers which are easy to kill), Lychguard + Obryon (slow and vulnerable), and the rest of the army. That's a big no-no in an assault focused list...even more so in an assault list that doesn't even assault very well.

Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark

Meh, I think you need Annhilation Barges instead. You really need a way to reliably deal with enemy transports. A single large blast is really never worth 175 points. Heck Leman Russes and Demolishers really aren't worth the 150 or 165 you pay for them (and I play IG too).

Heavy Support: Monolith


Meh, the monolith lost a lot of what made is special. Now it's really just a giant piece of mobile terrain that is as easy to kill as a landraider (IE, not hard). I really feel that they've become nearly useless unless you build a list around them....and even then they're just mediocre.


Vargard would be attached to the Lychguard, that means 19 S7 Power Weapon attacks that roll 2d6 for armour penetration on the charge, also they can take advantage of Vargard's ghostwalker mantle to deep strike around as they wish, pulling out of assaults if they have to.


If they survive that long. Without and invuln save and only hitting at I2, they can't take a lot of fire at close range and then survive the assault. And if the entire unit is wiped out in one go they won't even get the chance to self repair.

Opinions? Remember I haven't played Necrons before


Honestly I don't think it's a good list and it could really use a revamp as detailed in my comments.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304892.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304892.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
I would add in another Triarch Stalker, a single one will be taken out pretty quickly.

Then ditch the Doomsday Ark as they are pretty naff, have to stay still to fire is pretty poor. Also ditch the Monolith, you don't really need is as Lychguard can veil about with Obi Wan and the Wraiths are fast enough.

With the points add triple Annihilation Barges, these will give you more shooting and anti tank.

I would then consider ditching the Wraiths. They are cool, but you've got Obyron as a HQ and he works with the Lychguard nicely. With the remaining points get another Triarch Stalker and boost the Scarabs to 10 strong, 5 won't last long.

Hope that helps.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304945.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
I do want to try the lychguard/vargard combo, at T5 they're quite resilient in my opinion. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304970.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304970.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list . ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304985.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Omegaspectre wrote:I do want to try the lychguard/vargard combo, at T5 they're quite resilient in my opinion.


Not when walking for 2 to 3 turns. T5 is nice, but all the big,scary rapid-fire guns really don't care. IG Multilasers and Eldar Scatterlasers will eat them almost as easily as they do marines. Dark Eldar don't care and will just torrent them down. Tyranids will just swamp them in wounds, etc, etc.

Then when things like plasma, melta, battlecannons, dark-light weapons and power weapons start chewing them up you can kiss the unit goodbye. Heck even if one or two survive, even guardsmen can probably handle them in assault.

You need a way to keep them more survivable and get them to the enemy without having to sit around directly in front of enemy guns for an entire turn when using the Ghost Mantle.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4304995.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list

As for your comment, I don't want to ditch the doomsday ark as I get one in the battleforce anyway, although could build it as a ghost ark.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305000.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list . ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305009.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305016.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305016.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305024.page GMT Re:Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list imho wraiths dont work well as independant assault units, so if you do get rid of the lychguard could consider removing the wraiths. Its problem is as the only assault unit in the list means it has a lot on its plate, and since the necrons arent an assault force, its better to not try to boost your melee power.
Lastly.
Get royal courts. Get them all. Get crypteks with cool gear and maybe a lord with res orb for the warrior horde if you go that way.

Hope this helps. :]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305037.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305037.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305052.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4305052.page GMT Re:Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
The advice above is all sound. Your original list has a full helping of Necron which is not a bad idea if you have the money to buy all the models and you don't mind losing (but having a ball of fun doing it ).

Most Necron lists work well because they focus on units which combine well together. They also have to work with your play style. Do you prefer shooty lists, foot, mech, non competitive fun?? As a guide, 2 of anything is always better than 1 UNLESS your tactics/list compensate for it. I suggest you check out army lists for wraithwing, scarab farm, MTO Necrons and there are some foot and mech lists in this forum as well. The idea is to have a look and see how you are going to play, then style a list that you are going to have fun with . If you want non competitive lists with check out my FunCron lists.

To answer your question:

a) 10 sword & board Lychguard will work as a deathstar, but that will consume just about all your list - so it's not effective. It is a matter of finding a combo that works for you. In my experience, 5 lychguard with swords and boards, with a named character, a veiltek (or Obyron) and a lord with res orb is a VERY tough unit to kill. Sure, the opponent can focus all their fire on them, but I can bounce anything under AP3 to any enemy unit within 6 inches (on a 4+roll). Most importantly for me, that means that they are not shooting at anything else!! The most important thing is your purpose for having them there, because wraiths are cheaper, faster and more effective. I use them to back up death& despair combos (5x deathmarks + veiltek). Drop the Death&Despair and the Lychguard at the same time, use the D&D to blast something, then present a choice to the enemy - shoot the D&D or the lychguard. Sure they can do both, and assault both - fine cos the units are disposable and next turn the scarabs, spyders and wraiths are going to chew the enemy up.

b) Deathmarks are good, as long as they with a veiltek, and you use them as a suicide squad. Pick a unit in the enemy back line worth more than 150pt, drop the deathmarks in, watch it die. Then, watch the deathmarks die! job done.

c) Crypteks. Crypteks are cheap force multipliers but are not going to turn 5 warriors into terminators (mainly because you can only get 1, max 2 into a squad with 5 warriors) But you need to combo them properly. Don't put lanceteks into tesla immortals, because you aren't going to be shooting them at the same thing (unless you are babysitting a doomsday ark, in which case ok, imho ). Don't use veilteks with blocks of warriors (unless they are relentless) etc etc.

d) 5 Man warrior squads with a lancetek are, in my experience, fine at any points level IF you have enough other stuff for the opponent to be shooting at. Sure, they can go for your warriors, in which case you win by tabling them . If you don't have enough other stuff (i.e. stuff that will kill them if they ignore it) well, you are going to lose anyway so have fun doing it .

e) I find that invul saves are ALWAYS worth their points if you can afford it. That's because in my games we generally play friendly so there are loads of power weapons and low AP weapons around. A lot of accepted knowledge says that phase shifters aren't worth points. Sure, I can get more warriors instead, but I would rather that my Overlord lived because he is a threat by himself (love a war scythe!).

As you are buying stuff new, I'd suggest you get a battle force, 6 wraiths and 2-3 anni barges, an extra box of warriors (for conversions) with your Lychguard. You can convert up your own crypteks (check my user page for the ones I made from warrior parts with leftover praetorian bits if you like). From there see what style of army you prefer to play. Shooty? go stalkers (plural!) doomsday arks, tesla immortals, destroyers,. Assault? more wraiths.

By then, you'll know what works for you.


PS. Don't EVER walk Lychguard . If you are doing that, you are doing it wrong. Use wraiths instead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307261.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307261.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Codex: Necrons - £20

Necron Battleforce - £65
- 2x Warrior Squad (10 Models each)
- 1x Deathmark Squad (5 Models)
- 1x Doomsday Ark
- 5 Canoptek Scarab Bases

HQ:
---
Vargard Obyron - £9.50

Overlord w/ Res Orb - MADE FROM BARGE SPARES

Royal Court of Two Lords with res orbs - £19

Elites:
-------
Lychguard - £20.50

Triarch Stalker - £28.50

5 Deathmarks - BATTLEFORCE

Troops:
-------
10 Warriors (with lord attached) - BATTLEFORCE

10 Warriors (with lord attached) - BATTLEFORCE

Fast Attack:
------------
Canoptek Scarab Swarm (5 Bases) - BATTLEFORCE

Canoptek Wraiths (6 Wraiths) - £28.50 x2

Heavy Support:
--------------
Doomsday Ark - BATTLEFORCE

Annihilation Barge - £20.50


Both Vargard and the Overlord are attached to the Lychguard, that way they get the 4+ for reanimation, plus the support of the warscythe-wielding overlord. And obviously they can use the ghostwalk mantle to hop around as they please.

The two lords with res orbs from the royal court are going to be attached to each warrior squad, to help them advance.

Annihilation barge to move up and support warriors

Doomsday ark to sit back and fire

Wraiths to either be in two squads of three or 1 squad of 6, either way they'll hunt out units in close combat

Scarabs will try to take out what they can

Triarch stalker will hunt down vehicles, and after that, infantry. It'll have the heat ray.

Deathmarks will pick a unit and kill them

But yeah the Mega-Overlord-Vargard-Lychguard combo is the most expensive unit.. but the most damaging if most of them can reach the enemies alive. Which thanks to the 4+ from the res orb should be easier. I'm still going with warsycthes on them though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307274.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Did you check out the thread I posted earlier?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450105.page

If you get another box of warriors, you can make both deathmarks AND immortals from the battleforce as well as some crypteks. You'll also get an extra three scarab bases which helps!

The AnniBarge kit has an overlord in it, so you won't need to make it out of parts. Just put the overlord on the stand.

Happy gaming!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307382.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
On to business...

HQ - The SC are all pretty good. The Overlord ones are universally awesome.

Elites - The Triarchs and Guard are not all that. The Guys with Shields are ok as long as the list is tailored to CC, but Wraith are tons better. The C'tan are ok in Tremorcron lists and the walker unit is pretty kool. Don't ask about the Fleshy guys - they are quite possibly the worst unit in the game.

Troops - Both great choices, just take a Phaeron if the Immortals have Blasters.

FA - Other than Destroyers, all FA is awesome.

HS - Barges are just amazing for their cost (both points and money wise). Monolith took a nerf, but it's still playable in some lists, Ark is very good, but if it loses it's gun it's screwed. The Scythe is pretty good.

Transports - Personal taste really. The Barge is outstanding, the Ark (personally, I can't stand them as they are expensive) have their uses, the Scythe is very very good for their cost. Cannot wait for the model.

BTW - anyone who says get the Battleforce is correct. It is one of the best in value and has tons of units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307461.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4307461.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
Omegaspectre wrote:updated list
... um, it seems like you missed what people were trying to tell you.
- if you're going to take Stalkers, take two. One is a fire magnet. (though, you said your army is more assault based, so I'm not even sure why the Stalker is here in the first place. If it's only for anti-vehicle service, there are most cost effective ways to handle that).
- speaking of assaulty units, I sincerely hope you've factored in for Mindshackle Scarabs on everyone that can carry them.
- speaking of guys that can carry MS Scarabs, sticking Orb Lords with groups of less than 15 Warriors is kind of a waste. Stick one of them in with Obyron's deathstar.
- if you're running Deathmarks but NOT including a Harbinger of Despair, that is a waste of one of the best combos we have at our disposal.
- I see the Doomsday Ark is still there... well, everyone tried to warn you, but okay...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308019.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308019.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
skoffs wrote:
Omegaspectre wrote:updated list
... um, it seems like you missed what people were trying to tell you.
- if you're going to take Stalkers, take two. One is a fire magnet. (though, you said your army is more assault based, so I'm not even sure why the Stalker is here in the first place. If it's only for anti-vehicle service, there are most cost effective ways to handle that).
- speaking of assaulty units, I sincerely hope you've factored in for Mindshackle Scarabs on everyone that can carry them.
- speaking of guys that can carry MS Scarabs, sticking Orb Lords with groups of less than 15 Warriors is kind of a waste. Stick one of them in with Obyron's deathstar.
- if you're running Deathmarks but NOT including a Harbinger of Despair, that is a waste of one of the best combos we have at our disposal.
- I see the Doomsday Ark is still there... well, everyone tried to warn you, but okay...


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308663.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308663.page GMT Getting Necrons soon, want some opinions on this work in progress army list
1.) Get a Battleforce

2.) Nab some CCB's because they can be your buggy or your Anni Barge (swappable parts FTW!)

3.) I like Lychguard, but Wraiths are more survivable and cheaper (points wise) and can be shoe horned into any Necron list IMO, and your enemies will soon learn to hate them.

4.) I know you want to do Lychguard and Obryon, but the stock Overlord w/upgrades is the best HQ choice for beginners, except maybe Anrakyr. I find myself using him a lot

5.) Overall, base your army on synergy. Doomsday Barges are alright, but that template can scatter like crazy and start dropping your 175 pt models shots to S4. Poop town.

6.) Take advantage of the D&D combo

7.) Take advantage of durability. Plop out 20 warriors with an overlord(phaeron, so the warriors are relentless) and a Res Orb, but support them with a grot squad and a Lance tek in a Ghost Ark. Reanimation on 4+ and having equal odds of getting 1-3 guys back on that 20 an squad? Awesome.

8.) You don't have to listen to us, but it's all sound advice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450747/4308805.page GMT