http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net HQ:

Chosen x 5:.......................................................140(+165)pts
-Flamer x 4
-Asp. Chp. w/ lightning claws

+Chaos Sorcerer (+170)
-Personal Icon
-Familiar
-Winds of Chaos
-Gift of Chaos

Chaos Terminators x 5:............................................200pts
-Chain Fist x 1
-Reaper Autocannon
-Aspiring Champ x 1

Troops:

Noise Marines x 7.................................................205 pts
-Personal Icon
-Sonic Blasters x 6
-Aspiring Champ. w/ power weapon

Khorne Berzerkers x 7.............................................172 pts
-Skull Champion w/ Power Weapon

Lesser Deamons x 7................................................91 pts

Lesser Deamons x 7................................................91 pts

Fast Attack:

Chaos Raptors x 5.................................................180 pts
-Icon of Khorne
-Melta
-Aspiring Chapion w/ Lightning Claws

Chaos Raptors x 5.................................................160 pts
-Melta x 2
-Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist

Chaos Spawn x 2...................................................80 pts

Heavy Support:

Obliterator Cult (3)..............................................225 pts

Defiler...........................................................150 pts

Chaos Predator....................................................135 pts
-Lascannon Turret
-Heavy Bolters

Total: 1994ish (pretty sure)?

-My first 40k army I started back in 2007, it is a Black Legion army (completely under the black-gold palette to keep the theme going, most people see black legion armies as boring but I was intrigued by the color scheme and tried to spice it up alot). After a lot of painting and assembling I finally got around to structuring it. I'm trying to keep it at a 2000 pt army and wanna sneak in my two rhinos, what should I change/drop to do so? Its for friendly games against almost every army. The current setup has the raptors as anti tank/CC units that jump around, the Chosen squad with the sorcerer lay down alot of template fire and will hopefully get their own rhino, the terminators will arrive to battle via teleporting and act as a shock troop while the noise marines are versitle enough being able to move and shoot. The zerkers will also hopefully end up with a rhino and move up early. The lesser deamons can arrive thru multiple units to add to the confusion. The spawn hopefully draw fire and reach a round or two of combat to distract. All in all, alot of unexpected arrivals and CC tie-ups Obviously this is an unorthodox setup so suggestions would be much appreciated, i have left over thousand sons, vanilla csm, and a termi lord with a deamon weapon if that could be of any use, in order to keep new purchases to a minimum. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4307464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4307464.page GMT Change the Predator to Autocannon/Lascannon Sponsons. Two shots is better than twin-linked. Maybe add extra armor or DP.
Give the Defiler a CCW instead of the Autocannon. He can't fire the Battlecannon and it anyways, and if the Battlecannon gets destroyed, he has Fleet so he should be running.
I am not a personal fan of Raptors, but YMMV. I find they die all the time before doing anything useful, especially with only 5 per squad.
Put the Bezerkers in a rhino, give it a combi-melta and give the Champ a fist and give someone an Icon. If you're deep-striking the termis for CC, the Bezerkers will likely be in the best position. I'd also up them to 10 models.
Can you play the lord as a non-termi lord? If you can, give him a mark of Khorne and stick him with the Bezerkers (dropping them to nine models, obviously).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4307721.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4307721.page GMT CSM army. Chosen with Sorcerer lose their infiltrate capability. Footslogging NM and Berzerkers are bad. Raptors are questionable as are Spawns and Lesser Daemons. You need to streamline the army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4308075.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4308075.page GMT
As for spawn being poor "foot-sloggers", they do move 2D6 a turn and can assualt 12' after, and have 2D6 in the combat. I'm not arguing if this is already a known fact that they are worthless, but to me spawn are great fire sponges for 6 W at 80pts if they can cross 24' a turn and have decent assault stats.They are basically a small thorn in your side you can't ignore but don't wanna deal with. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4310831.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4310831.page GMT Bezerkers beat raptors any day. Fearless, Furious Charge, a better WS, and an extra attack all for just one more point.
If you really like raptors, take one squad of five with a champ w melta-bombs, and two meltaguns. Then Deep-Strike near the enemies rear to kill long-range fire. And then the squad will get roasted. It's risky, but it can be incredibly effective.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311153.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311153.page GMT would sacrificing either the defiler or predator be worth it in order to beef up the raptor squads and give the berserkers a rhino as well?

I don't want to sound like I'm defending a broken unit, but raptors get deep strike and jump packs, and thus erratic arrival and mobility make them harder to prepare for, zerkers are infamously brutal and as result find themselves forced to assualt the CC heavy troops which isnt necessarily a bad thing, but isnt what id want, rather a CC unit that takes out less Hand to Hand equipped squads or heavy armor that otherwise seemed somewhat protected for the turn. The terminators will hopefully cut down heavy infantry formations and the Demons will be dropped onto the mainline units to support the anti-horde sorcerer and chosen squad. All in all, a very improvised acting army relying on deep striking raptors, oblits, demons, and termis with the other squads (chosen, zerkers, and noise marines) in rhinos pushing to the front lines to have unsuspecting arrivals for both parties and forcing the enemy to react rather than run a certain plan. Is it viable, or too cheesy and unrealistically situational? Sorry for all the questions, you guys obviously know your stuff and I ask with utmost respect in that aspect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311350.page GMT You can have an unexpected CC squad or two, but when most of the army is that, you'll have problems. As well, Lesser Daemons were heavily nerfed in 4th. If you were running, say, two squads of Plague Marines and a squad or two of bezerkers with Icons, then Deep-striking termis/Oblits/raptors off them, that could work. Add in a defiler and a predator, and you're looking at a solid list with unexpected results. Just remember you can't Deep-Strike and then assault, so they end up sitting ducks for a turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311839.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4311839.page GMT HQ:
Chaos Sorcerer.........................................................170 pts
-Personal Icon
-Familiar
-Winds of Chaos
-Gift of Chaos

Chaos Terminators x 5:............................................200pts
-Chain Fist x 1
-Reaper Autocannon
-Aspiring Champ

Troops:
Noise Marines x 7......................................................240 pts
-Personal Icon
-Sonic Blasters x 6
-Aspiring Champ. w/ power weapon
+Rhino

Noise Marines x 7.....................................................240 pts
-Sonic Blasters x 6
-Personal Icon
-Aspiring Champ w/ Doom siren
+Rhino

Lesser Deamons x 7................................................91 pts

Lesser Deamons x 7................................................91 pts

Fast Attack:
Chaos Raptors x 8.................................................216 pts
-Icon of Khorne
-Melta
-Aspiring Chapion w/ Lightning Claws

Chaos Raptors x 7.................................................179 pts
-Melta x 2
-Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist

Heavy Support:
Obliterator Cult (3)..................................................225 pts

Havocs x 14.............................................................230 pts
-Flamer x 4
-(Joined by Sorcerer)

Better? Trying to get a more stable army, but still Deep Striking anything that can. Havocs will run as non-scoring pyrotechnic csm troops, so would cutting them down to 9 and giving em a rhino be a smarter choice or could they handle the hike? I might throw them an IoN for both defense and an extra DS beacon instead though. As always, your help is much appreciated.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4320356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/450960/4320356.page GMT