<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
SInce theres been quite a habit of dramatic reversals of fortune in the book I think the following things could come about.

*Daenerys has pretty much every city in the East including Yunkai, Qarth and New Ghis moving at her beleagered army in Mereen. Since she has left things are probably even grimmer. It is possible that she could find some way of manipulating the Dothraki into rejoining her cause. Perhaps this might even involve Kal Drogo's prophesised return. Personally I think it is well past time that the Eastern plot-line was wrapped up. If theres only seven books from what I've heard then it kinda needs to happen next book.

*Given that Tyrell and Dorn hate eachother they will end up on opposite factions. Because Danny, technically rebuted, and caused the death of their male heir; they might attempt to marry one of their women (who can still rule under Dornish law) to this new Aegon Targarian. They could also attempt to push the claim of the girl Marcella I think (also under Dornish law) to Casterly Rock. It could be the Tyrells since they have been fracturing but they are still under a marriage alliance. My view is that Aegon may sieze Kings Landing whilst Jamie is away in the Riverlands with the Lannister army and essentially gain vengence by murdering Tommen and his wife. History repeating itself has been a theme of A Song. This could involve Arya as an assasian since Aegon and Varys have connections in the East and she wants (plus deserves) her vengence against Cersei Lannister. That would leave the door open for Tyrell and Lannister to join Daenerys. This would make sense since Tyrion could get a Royal Pardon of Danny and be made heir to Casterly Rock.

*I haven't made my mind up on Petyre Baelish, I want to say that hes going to turn out alright. Petyre got all his holdings from the Lannisters. But, he only has real power over the Vale because he has the young John Arryn as his ward. So if he wanted to press his claim against the Freys 'hard' power in the riverlands he could end up siding with Aegon as well, although the Varys connection makes me skeptical. Or he could just sit this one out in the tower and hope hes last man standing. He really is the wildcard in all this. There is something likable about him despite being a Machiavellian schemer. Does he actually know that Varys is behind Aegon? Wait, wouldn't it be lol worthy if he asked to marry Danny in exchange for the Vale; the man does wish to rise above his station?

*One of the prequel dexcriptions online mentioned the coming of the others and old fueds being put aside. I think Stannis will do well against the Boltons initially but when they ally with him to face the Others they will betray him once their (presumably vanguard) is pushed back the wall. This may result in Stannis being killed. Or it could be that Stannis has a change of heart and gets the Greyjoys on side using Theon and its Theon who betrays him.

Can't wait like.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4321700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4321700.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Totalwar1402 wrote:My thoughts...

Spoiler:


SInce theres been quite a habit of dramatic reversals of fortune in the book I think the following things could come about.

*Daenerys has pretty much every city in the East including Yunkai, Qarth and New Ghis moving at her beleagered army in Mereen. Since she has left things are probably even grimmer. It is possible that she could find some way of manipulating the Dothraki into rejoining her cause. Perhaps this might even involve Kal Drogo's prophesised return. Personally I think it is well past time that the Eastern plot-line was wrapped up. If theres only seven books from what I've heard then it kinda needs to happen next book.

*Given that Tyrell and Dorn hate eachother they will end up on opposite factions. Because Danny, technically rebuted, and caused the death of their male heir; they might attempt to marry one of their women (who can still rule under Dornish law) to this new Aegon Targarian. They could also attempt to push the claim of the girl Marcella I think (also under Dornish law) to Casterly Rock. It could be the Tyrells since they have been fracturing but they are still under a marriage alliance. My view is that Aegon may sieze Kings Landing whilst Jamie is away in the Riverlands with the Lannister army and essentially gain vengence by murdering Tommen and his wife. History repeating itself has been a theme of A Song. This could involve Arya as an assasian since Aegon and Varys have connections in the East and she wants (plus deserves) her vengence against Cersei Lannister. That would leave the door open for Tyrell and Lannister to join Daenerys. This would make sense since Tyrion could get a Royal Pardon of Danny and be made heir to Casterly Rock.

*I haven't made my mind up on Petyre Baelish, I want to say that hes going to turn out alright. Petyre got all his holdings from the Lannisters. But, he only has real power over the Vale because he has the young John Arryn as his ward. So if he wanted to press his claim against the Freys 'hard' power in the riverlands he could end up siding with Aegon as well, although the Varys connection makes me skeptical. Or he could just sit this one out in the tower and hope hes last man standing. He really is the wildcard in all this. There is something likable about him despite being a Machiavellian schemer. Does he actually know that Varys is behind Aegon? Wait, wouldn't it be lol worthy if he asked to marry Danny in exchange for the Vale; the man does wish to rise above his station?

*One of the prequel dexcriptions online mentioned the coming of the others and old fueds being put aside. I think Stannis will do well against the Boltons initially but when they ally with him to face the Others they will betray him once their (presumably vanguard) is pushed back the wall. This may result in Stannis being killed. Or it could be that Stannis has a change of heart and gets the Greyjoys on side using Theon and its Theon who betrays him.

Can't wait like.



Spoiler:
I get the impression stannis is dead. I'm curious to see if the king slayer is going to get out of his predicament or if he's doomed as well. I just hope it doesn't take 5 years for that book to get finished.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4322682.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4322682.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Spoiler:
The wiki suggested Stannis was still alive and that Bolton was lying to Jon Snow


TBH, I'am surprised how much stuff gets done plot wise in Storm of Swords but how little the plot appears to advance from there.



Spoiler:


At the end of Storm of Swords

Danny is in Mereen. Where she is still after two books (or is it technically three books?).

Arya is on her way to the assasian guild-where shes still training by the end of Dance with Dragons

Stannis is at the wall. By the end of Dance he is still in the North.

Sansa is with Petyre Baelish. Where she remains at the end of a Dance.

So much stuff happened in Storm of Swords in terms of moving the plot on, especially part two I'am hoping Winter is Coming is another of those which speeds things up.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4322840.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4322840.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Spoiler:
well actually at the end of dance, danny just re acquired her big black dragon (OH that just sounds wrong) Plus come across another kalisar from one of her previous blood riders. so from the looks of things she just got her army she needs to recross the sea. so while ya she's still around mereen she won't be there for long.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323031.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Spoiler:


I know she gets Drogon back and meets some annoyed Dothraki but thats not a big shift for two books.

Also, shes had the army since Astapor (Part one Storm of Swords) when she took eight thousand unsullied. If she had moved to the city where Master Illyrio was and waited for the Martells to pledge their support she could have gotten there a lot sooner. But she decided to have a personal crusade and that she needed to proove herself as a military leader and Queen. She also has every city in the East wanting her dead and they destroyed her allies in Astapor. So they are coming for Mereen. So she won't be leaving for a long time, even if the next book does cover a lot; she will essentially have to conquer most of the East. Also, the Dothraki Khal is one she swore vengence against for stealing a slave child off her; so a few are getting burned. In fact they might simply capture her and Drogon; since she belongs in Vaes Dothrak as widow to a Khal. Even with the dragons on the cusp of being able to fight and having the unsullied she'd still struggle. If and its a big if, she somehow gets the Dothraki on side she would have the best horse archer cavalry and infantry in the world. Which, with Dragons pretty much means she'll land like a thunderbolt in Westeros.

For that reason it honestly wouldn't surprise me if she arrives with Others at the gates of Kings Landing.

Don't get me wrong, the stuff with Danny is good in terms of character development. Its not a quick jump from virgin child to Aegon the Conqueror reborn. Plus, I don't get what historical period GRR Martin is referencing with the East; its annoying because they seem far less believable than the ones in Westeros. Certainly not the Saracens of the Middle ages. They used armour and the cultural look is wrong. The Dothraki could be Turks but again they didn't fight half naked. The lack of armour in general and the emphasis on cities means it might be Assyrian I suppose; maybe the classical period given the names Qarth(Carthage) Ghis Legionairres (Roman Empire) but the aesthetics are way off. I guess hes going more for the oriental feel rather than representing a historical equivalent.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323136.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323136.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) Daernarys
Spoiler:
She is not in Mereen, she is in the wastes with Drogon and has just met a Khalasar let by one of Drogo's bloodriders.
They will take her to Vaes Dothrak as an ex-khaliessi must go. This is for the best as the advice given her is that she needs to go back to go forward. I think she will be able to find recruits there. it will end with her just about to start the journey back, with her Dothraki, aiming to collect the Unsullied and ex-slaves along the way.


Tyrion and company
Spoiler:
Jorah Mormont will hand him to Daenarys, eventually, but not in this book. instead he will wait in Daenarys's court in her absense. Dany must realise sooner or later he is not the 'betrayal for love' threat.
Tyrion will survive probably because of a good word put in by Barristan Selmy, while Selmy didn't witness Tyrion's actions he knows an honest man when he sees one and will stand up for him.
I think they are safe, barring perils on the road.


Jaime Lannister
Spoiler:
GRRM has tried to sell us a line here. Jaime Lannister is a master swordmen and always will be, he just isnt used to fighting left handed and of himself never will be. Jaime Lanister is however a natural fighter. Once his life is actually threatened, or Briennes as he pretty near loves her, his fighting skills will 'unlock' and Dead Cats minions will face a Kingslayer style beat down. Endgame: Jaime may not have a happy ending but he has clearly moved to redeem himself. if he survives he will end up back home or on the Wall, depending on how well known it becomes that he killed the mad king to prevent him from immolating king's Landing. It is greatly to his credit that he never gave that excuse, except to Brienne, and if anyone stands up for his name it will likely be her


Jon Snow
Spoiler:
Jon Snow is dead, but wont be long. Now his watch is over, he is free to do other things. He is headstrong and may reenlist or just continue as normal though. In any event Dead Cat and the Blackfish both know that Jon Snow was named Robbs heir, as the Blackfish is missing he is probably going north to relieve Jon Snow of his watch by (final) order of King Robb. This is all the excuse Jon Snow needs to sieze the North, either in Stannis' name, or for himself. He knows better than to neglect the threat beyond the wall, no matter how many Boltons and Freys there are to kill.
Sooner of later Mellisandre will realise this is the Prince she seeks, he will get a flaming sword and a dragon, and maybe the Throne of Westeros, but that will wait for book seven.


Secret Character
Spoiler:
Aegon is a hothead, Tyrioons realised this from his chess games. He will lead the assault on Storms End and die pretty much as the Knight of Flowers did. Conniston will look at his hands and wonder if it was worth it. More to the point so will Varrys.


Varrys
Spoiler:
Varrys is one of a handful of characters for whome everything fits into place for, another exception being Petyr Baelish. Its about time Varrys left the rug fly from under him, and his smugness while dispatching Kivan Lannister makes the fall sweeter to read. Expect a lot of flapping around and attempts to contact Moparis and 'activate' Daenarys, who has disappeared by all accounts. the man with all the knowledge doesn't know and he is now playing chess without a king. This will be fun to watch.


Petyr Baelish
Spoiler:
And his pet Stark. They will not move much. Baelish knows that his power rests on being the last man standing, not the strongest man. He will keep the Vale out of the fight until the fight is spent. Its a pity that the Aeris is not dragonproof though. Given enough warning Baelish could still be one of the big winners in the endgame.
Sansa isnt a character, she is a pawn, this is her fate for betraying her sister and losing her wolf. The old gods don't like their gifts being despised.


Bran
Spoiler:
Sit under tree and wait for the end. Jon Snow/Targaryen will feel real guilty when he sticks a flaming sword into him to save the world.


Davos
Spoiler:
No idea frankly, other than he has what it takes to rescue Rickon. Once Jon Snow knows Rickon is alive he will cede the North to him, no ifs or buts and remain as his seneschal or reforces northwards and let Davos do the rest.
Davos is one of the characters I want to see make it through to the end.


Stannis
Spoiler:
Stannis lives, Ramsay Bolton is just a liar. whether he makes his next move wisely is unsure. He could take Winterfell is the Stark loyalists in disguise make it inside the castle. This all depends if Rickon is found and declared or the Blackfish reasches Jon and declares him lord of Winterfell. otheriwse he has nothing else to do but watch snow fall. This character is in mortal danger if he refuses to respect the elements and change the timing of his plans.


Asha
Spoiler:
Will see Theon put out of his misery. She might offer Stannis a truce: give up Ramsay Bolton to Ironborn justice and my men and I will join yours in the fight for Winterfell I wouldnt want to be Ramsay Bolton right now, her has more on his plate than a missing Reek, Asha is not someone to cross.


Arya
Spoiler:
Will do rather little, as she is still in training. I think most of the time she will be training and getting more than a little frustrated. her handlers will know this of course, this will make for interesting characterisation. She, and we, will have to wait to see her unleashed in book seven, until then it is still moderately safe to go by the name of Frey.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323461.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4323461.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Spoiler:


Thats a bit harsh. I doubt the Gods would curse Sansa for a childs mistake. She didn't know, nor did she want her wolf to die and was only forced to do so because of Cersei's spite. I really pity Sansa. But they can't keep her as a victim forever, at some point the character has to mature and open her eyes; what the Hound and Baelish have been telling her.

Daenerys being made to grovel with the Dothraki is irritating since they will never follow a woman and violate their traditions. Unless Kal Drogo comes back and means she is no longer a widow. A Khaleyse cannot rule, even if she has a dragon and even if these crones can be manipulated into bringing all the Dothraki to her side it would take a pretty far-fetched reason. Short of some religious prophecy where she is some sort of messiah I just can't see it happening.The trouble with Danys story is that its resolution can only end one way with her bringing an army to Westeros, GRR Martin has simply spent 6/7 books throwing various obstacles to her reaching this goal, at least with Jons story the others and Wildlings DEFINETLY have a massive effect upon the rest of the world. But what happens in the East isn't important except for Danny to develop as a character; which starts to run very thin after so long without any significant relations with the rest of the arcs; again unlike Jon Snows plot. Basically hes built up something thats going to be wrapped up extremely quickly in the final book and would just end up falling flat. I mean, it really isn't relevent whether Danny gets ten ships and sails to Westeros with a few thousand or if she (as it seems to be leading up to) conquers ALL of the East; because she just happens to disapprove of slavery.

My mate reckoned Jon Snow is dead and Melisandre is going to try and sacrifice his blood to awaken the dragons. But in fact merely returns him as Azzor-Hai reborn.

The trouble with Arya is, we are a little late in the day to be in training, I mean, I know getting to be a master assasian takes time but: the character is meant to be about vengence and is having her list go down of its own accord.

GRR Martin has said hes only doing seven books and because hes refusing to do montages for some of them or skip a few years that means the last book is going to have to cover A LOT of ground. You know things like Danny being introduced to Westeros and learning about the Game of Thrones. Aryas vengence. These are pretty big things that need, especially the former a lot of work and I just don't see how he can do those things justice. I mean, the Dragons are still too small to be an insta-win and he'll never let them get as big as Balerion so its not as if Danny would have had an easy time of it.




BTW since I'am in A Song of ice and FIre mood I changed my avatar. Can you tell what that picture is meant to be of? Its a little too white and was a much larger image I got off the wiki. Lovely picture and a sweet part of the book mind you; very endearing.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324000.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324796.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324816.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4324816.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Hazardous Harry wrote:As far as Daenerys and the Dothraki are concerned, she is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.


Drogon only has a twenty foot wingspan so he isn't even a Skyrim sized dragon. With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325015.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Totalwar1402 wrote:
Hazardous Harry wrote:As far as Daenerys and the Dothraki are concerned, she is sort of packing a living, breathing, doubledecker bus-sized (at least) flamethrower which is capable of laying waste to entire armies. A show of strength, such as roasting the more aggressive Dothraki leaders, would go a long way in subduing them. I get the impression that she's reaching the point where should wouldn't hesitate to do something like that at all.


Drogon only has a twenty foot wingspan so he isn't even a Skyrim sized dragon. With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?


That would be an interesting interpretation of the Targaryens 'riding' their dragons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325026.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325026.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
It makes sense since, how on earth could Aegon have controlled or even ridden a dragon the size of godzilla?

Can you imagine though, all I can compare it to is a princeps linking up to a Imerator Class Titan, you'd have to conted with such a powerful spirit; much stronger than a direwolf. Does doing this alter the character of the people who do it; I know they keep mentioning about Bran losing himself but?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325042.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4325042.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Bromsy wrote:With a lot of arrows he could be killed and one pit fighter in Mereen nearly did that.


And think you're underestimating the durability of a dragon, after all these creatures laid waste to Harrenhal, and you can bet that the defenders were shooting them with arrows the whole time. I also think that the pit fighter was nowhere near as close to killing the dragon as you imply.

BTW, Danny dreamt of herself as a dragon several times. Is it possible for her to skin-shift into a dragon like a warg?


That would be an interesting interpretation of the Targaryens 'riding' their dragons.

I think it would also go a long way in explaining her immunity to fire.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327067.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327067.page GMT Re:A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327235.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327244.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Hazardous Harry wrote:I'm not saying Drogon means Danny will have an instant-win. But he is certainly a very powerful tool that might see her at the head of a Dothraki horde.


Only if they believe that she is the only one capable of controlling the dragon. Also, each Khalesar is seperate, Drogon spent years ammasing his khalesar and even if he did return he wouldn't have his Khal. The only way Danny can gain the Dothraki is if the Crones at Vaes Dothrak endorse her since they represent the entirity of the Dothraki 'nation'. Given the amount of prophecies it might involve something along the lines of, 'if Danny loses then the Others will destroy all life' or somethingelse to the effect that her cause becomes the Dothraki cause. Otherwise some Khal will simply try to capture and tame Drogo. Even if a Khal wises up to the need for Danny he is honour bound to hand Danny over to the crones as widow of a Khal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327298.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327298.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4327408.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Plus she swore vengence on the Khal who found her for taking that slave girl (or it may have been one of his leutenants) but that means they're not going to get off to a good start.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4328153.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4328153.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
the one thing is I'm not really sure who it was that sliced up Tyrion, its a shame they didn't mess him up more to look like he lost his nose.

but it was an impressive battle.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330508.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330540.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330540.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
sirlynchmob wrote:I don't want to start a new GOT thread, but speaking of tonights episode, I was really impressed with the battle. OK so the ships exploding was cheesy looking, but overall I think it was done well.

the one thing is I'm not really sure who it was that sliced up Tyrion, its a shame they didn't mess him up more to look like he lost his nose.

but it was an impressive battle.


I thought this episode was great. I have been wondering how they were going to handle a nose-less actor... It would be a stupid use of money to CG the nose out of Peter Dinkledge's face for the rest of however long the show runs! I'd rather see more cool effects, TBH. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4330674.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Orlanth wrote:Daenarys will be able to prove that she is not ordinary woman, and thus the restrictions do not apply to her.


They only stopped viewing her as an ordinary woman once she got an army and got the dragons. Which you can easily argue aren't the result of her own abilities, indeed she avoided the Dothraki Khals on getting her dragons for this very reason. I'am not saying they won't reach that conclusion eventually, but its going to take time and some new revelations to happen. Also, if Danny opposed the slavery on the coast she can hardly consider the Dothraki culture any differently. So they would pretty much need to believe she was the messiah to follow her.

Personally I think the crones on Vaes Dothrak will teach Danny how to use her dragons and realise the fate of the world rests on her getting her dragons to Westeros; so they call all the Dothraki nation to join her. At that point the slaver cities of Qarth, New Ghis and the others simply can't resist that level of force. At the very least it would force them to pull back behind their walls. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4331545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4331545.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Totalwar1402 wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Daenarys will be able to prove that she is not ordinary woman, and thus the restrictions do not apply to her.


They only stopped viewing her as an ordinary woman once she got an army and got the dragons. Which you can easily argue aren't the result of her own abilities, indeed she avoided the Dothraki Khals on getting her dragons for this very reason. I'am not saying they won't reach that conclusion eventually, but its going to take time and some new revelations to happen. Also, if Danny opposed the slavery on the coast she can hardly consider the Dothraki culture any differently. So they would pretty much need to believe she was the messiah to follow her.

Personally I think the crones on Vaes Dothrak will teach Danny how to use her dragons and realise the fate of the world rests on her getting her dragons to Westeros; so they call all the Dothraki nation to join her. At that point the slaver cities of Qarth, New Ghis and the others simply can't resist that level of force. At the very least it would force them to pull back behind their walls.


1. Dany got the dragons because she was special, mother of dragons, unburned etc. Exception can be made right there.

2. Women might not be allowed to lead by tradition, but Dany is the defacto leader of the only military the Dothraki respect by tradition. Dothraki don't mess with Unsullied, Dany has 10k of them. A point could be made for an exception right there.

These aren't instant fixes, but with Dany nothing is, she has been swaying to and fro for four books now. GRRM is taking his timwe with her, I think he sees that for her the journey is more interesting than the destination. After all when she arrives with dragons its a Deus Ex Machina entry, almost irregardless of their size because she has a better claim than anyone else, has enough guards to keep herself alive and people are sick of the usual bickering. Plus Dorne will automatically side with her, so she will have one of the kingdoms guaranteed. The story only really lasts as long as she is not around so Dany is off to the see the ex-Khaliessi for book six and will be cutting through barbarian red tape to allow woman to lead horde.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4331713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4331713.page GMT A Song of Ice and Fire: The Winds of Winter speculation (spoilers from previous books)
Just because she has a good claim doesn't mean the other houses are going to roll over. I mean a good theme has been that the smallfolk don't care who wins the game of Thrones and aren't 'sowing dragon banners' in their spare time. I doubt Tommen is going to abdicate. Plus if they betrayed House Targarian (although GRR Martin is conspicuouly picking off most of them) like Jamie Lannister she is going to want their heads and so they are compelled to fight her. Plus, some like the Tyrells, Freys, Boltons and arguably Peter Baelish have all of their authority and newly acquired titles resting on patronage gained from the Lannisters n the current King. So again, they will probably fight her since I doubt Danny would view the Freys/Bolton betrayel at the Red Wedding in a positive light and this will force them to resist Danny. Plus, Stannis (another traitor to the Targarians although probably least culpable) believes he is god-annointed to save the world in his own brusk way and is going to have to oppose her as well. Of course, some like Tyrell can always make new deals. Whats left of the Tulleys might rebel to regain what has been dispossesed from them. Whats left of the Stark factions are in with Stannis until an heir is produced either from Sansa, Jon Snow, or Rickon.

Plus, the Martells may be untouched but the Tyrells have the numbers, the Lannisters may be tired but are hardly spent and the Vale remains undecided. As I pointed out with the Dorn vs Tyrells, or with the Greyjoy heirs if Danny sides with one group she will make enemies of the others. As it stands, GRR Martin seems to be making it unclear which factions Danny may end up backing. So I'am not really expecting a Dues Ex entry for Danny. Even Aegon found enough idiots to fight him and his dragons were godzilla size. Basically its a very complicated plot and I doubt its going to end with a Dues Ex entry and everybody being cowed into submission. If anything her list of allies remains frighteningly thin and tenuous. True, the girl is "Dovahkiin", but still I don't think shes going to have an easy time gaining Westeros and convincing everyone she isn't another mad Targarian.

Thats the thing, the journey is interesting for her as a character, but the Eastern world itself has little appeal for me since its too oriental and feels less realistic than Westeros. Plus, the journeys only relevence to the destination is Danny gets more awesome or Dannys in trouble. It really doesn't matter if she leaves the place a mess or not and I'am not really given much reason to care because I only see the world through her perspective n goals.


I just had a thought. I think Peter might try to marry Danny. But do you think he might be the one who betrays for love because he loves Sansa? Or do you think Baelish's resolution is bound to involve Cat?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4332226.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/451607/4332226.page GMT