Dr. What wrote:Trukks were awesome in 5th.

The ability to get into CC on turn 2 due to a 20 inch relieable (without 5th ed fleet) assault range was just awesome. All that had to be done was take 11 boyz + 1 nob with PK, put them in a trukk and run them at the enemy (best done with at least 3 copies of this).

Unfortunately, with the rise of hull points and the addition of overwatch, 12 isn't a number that's strong enough. Trukk boyz can still be done, but you'd need many more and it'd be much more of a glass cannon.

Now,what was your HQ? A suggest a Big Mek with a KFF. If any part of a unit (each member of a vehicle squadron counts as its own unit for this) is within 6" of the Big Mek (if he's in a vehicle, then it's 6" from the hull), then that unit get's a 5+ cover save.

Now, the 6th edition has made some interesting changes for Orks. The common tactic is no longer "Rush! Rush! Rush!" Now, shooting is better (you can still assault, but it's tougher to do). Orks can do shooting quite effectively (A mob 30 shoota boyz pumps out 60 shots per shooting phase!).

The Nob with Power Klaw is no longer as much of a required thing. With challenges and a change in wound allocation, he must be more bubble wrapped. If you want to take a nob, then a bosspole is all you might need. Sitting back and shooting while protected by a cover save is safer and can be more effective than charging headlong towards the enemy.

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Brian P wrote:The PK Nob has a little bit of an edge compared to power fists due to his base Initiative being 3.

When you charge in you must position the PK carefully. You want the Nob to be unengaged when combat begins so he can't be challenged.

(If I have this rule wrong please do correct me. I've only played one game of 6th and it was not with Orks.)

Anyway, you charge in and the PK Nob is unengaged. Chances are you're going to be running through fight sub-phases 6, 5, and/or 4 before any of your mob gets to strike back. Many Orks in your front row will be dead by the time you get to I3.

Now Initiative phase 3 comes. Models with base I of 3 must do a pile-in move. Your Nob is it. He piles in to replace some of the boyz that died but he has a klaw so he does not get to strike yet.

Next it's I2 and your Orks get to pile in and strike.

Finally it's I1 and the Nob is still alive because he was unengaged during the phases when the enemy got to strike.

Brian P wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Yes, you can. The battlewagon in this case would be a heavy support choice and the boyz would be a troop choice, purchased separately.

The Trukk, by contrast is always a dedicated transport. Notice how in your codex there's no option to just buy a trukk as a standalone unit. Not so with the Battlewagon.

KOBossy wrote:

Brian P wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Yes, you can. The battlewagon in this case would be a heavy support choice and the boyz would be a troop choice, purchased separately.

The Trukk, by contrast is always a dedicated transport. Notice how in your codex there's no option to just buy a trukk as a standalone unit. Not so with the Battlewagon.

I do see that. Awesome. That gives me some ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question-Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport as long as it doesn't have a Killcannon. Can I take Nobz and a Battlewagon separately and put a Killcannon on the Battlewagon, then put the Nobz inside since the BW will have a capacity of 12? Does not taking the BW as a dedicated transport get around this rule or as long as a Killcannon is equipped, the Nobz can't enter?

Dr. What wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

Brian P wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Yes, you can. The battlewagon in this case would be a heavy support choice and the boyz would be a troop choice, purchased separately.

The Trukk, by contrast is always a dedicated transport. Notice how in your codex there's no option to just buy a trukk as a standalone unit. Not so with the Battlewagon.

I do see that. Awesome. That gives me some ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question-Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport as long as it doesn't have a Killcannon. Can I take Nobz and a Battlewagon separately and put a Killcannon on the Battlewagon, then put the Nobz inside since the BW will have a capacity of 12? Does not taking the BW as a dedicated transport get around this rule or as long as a Killcannon is equipped, the Nobz can't enter?

Here's a very easy answer: Never take a kilkannon. They're pricy and TBH, they're crappy. Boomguns are better (or an ally).

And you take a battlewagon as a heavy support and stick nobz in it, but it's not a designated transport. Nobz can get in a heavy support BW with a Kilkannon, but not a Designated Transport BW can't take a Kilkannon.

KOBossy wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

Brian P wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Yes, you can. The battlewagon in this case would be a heavy support choice and the boyz would be a troop choice, purchased separately.

The Trukk, by contrast is always a dedicated transport. Notice how in your codex there's no option to just buy a trukk as a standalone unit. Not so with the Battlewagon.

I do see that. Awesome. That gives me some ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question-Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport as long as it doesn't have a Killcannon. Can I take Nobz and a Battlewagon separately and put a Killcannon on the Battlewagon, then put the Nobz inside since the BW will have a capacity of 12? Does not taking the BW as a dedicated transport get around this rule or as long as a Killcannon is equipped, the Nobz can't enter?

Here's a very easy answer: Never take a kilkannon. They're pricy and TBH, they're crappy. Boomguns are better (or an ally).

And you take a battlewagon as a heavy support and stick nobz in it, but it's not a designated transport. Nobz can get in a heavy support BW with a Kilkannon, but not a Designated Transport BW can't take a Kilkannon.

Really? Killkannons aren't very good? They seem pretty solid, Strength 7 AP 3, that ignores anything up to Marine saves, it can possibly penetrate armor up to 12 and its large blast. 24 inch range seems to be not too shabby either. The only downside seems to be the 60 points they cost to equip.

Are Big Guns worth taking? Which ones would be the best? What does the Codex mean that it doesn't come with the crew? Does that mean the kit doesn't come with Gretchin or that you have to spend more points to get a Gretchin crew to fire it? How does that work, considering the Big Guns normally automatically have the Gretchin included in their cost?

DeffDred wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

Brian P wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Another question-can I put 20 Slugga Boyz in a Battlewagon? It only says that 12 or less in a mob can take a Trukk as a dedicated Transport, so I don't know if its possible. The Battlewagon itself only says it has a max capacity of 20 models.

Yes, you can. The battlewagon in this case would be a heavy support choice and the boyz would be a troop choice, purchased separately.

The Trukk, by contrast is always a dedicated transport. Notice how in your codex there's no option to just buy a trukk as a standalone unit. Not so with the Battlewagon.

I do see that. Awesome. That gives me some ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question-Nobz can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport as long as it doesn't have a Killcannon. Can I take Nobz and a Battlewagon separately and put a Killcannon on the Battlewagon, then put the Nobz inside since the BW will have a capacity of 12? Does not taking the BW as a dedicated transport get around this rule or as long as a Killcannon is equipped, the Nobz can't enter?

Here's a very easy answer: Never take a kilkannon. They're pricy and TBH, they're crappy. Boomguns are better (or an ally).

And you take a battlewagon as a heavy support and stick nobz in it, but it's not a designated transport. Nobz can get in a heavy support BW with a Kilkannon, but not a Designated Transport BW can't take a Kilkannon.

Really? Killkannons aren't very good? They seem pretty solid, Strength 7 AP 3, that ignores anything up to Marine saves, it can possibly penetrate armor up to 12 and its large blast. 24 inch range seems to be not too shabby either. The only downside seems to be the 60 points they cost to equip.

Are Big Guns worth taking? Which ones would be the best? What does the Codex mean that it doesn't come with the crew? Does that mean the kit doesn't come with Gretchin or that you have to spend more points to get a Gretchin crew to fire it? How does that work, considering the Big Guns normally automatically have the Gretchin included in their cost?

The big gunz dont have a "gretchin" crew. In other words its BS 2.

loota boy wrote:killkannon is actually only ap 4, not 3. So basicly, you are paying 60 points for a large blast autocannon with half the range that chews into your transport capacity. Still sound good?

And yes, the big gunz that are heavy support are bs 3, but big gunz on a wagon are only bs 2.

Also, if you like buggies, you'll like dakka jets even better. Trade in those 9 TL bs 2 big shoota shots for 9 TL bs 3 supa-shoota shots that are doubled on the turn you waaagh! And it's also on a flier.

I'll second the bit on no 'ard boyz. The boyz are attractive because they are cheap, and when you pay four points for measly 4+ saves, they aren't cheap anymore, and not very resilant.

Foot slogging burnas are also a no-no. They die just as fast as boyz, but they cost almost three times as much. They need a wagon to cart them around, and magnify their shooting strength. See, when you have 11 burnas on foot, you need to place every single template from each burna, which means that some burnas will get lack-luster shots, and some may not even get to shoot at all. When they shoot from a wagon, you just place one template in the best spot, and declare that all your burnas fire from that spot.

If you wanna run kans, you need a lot more of them. Get a couple more squads of them, and then they can shield your boyz, and overwhelm the enemy anti-tank.

KOBossy wrote:

loota boy wrote:killkannon is actually only ap 4, not 3. So basicly, you are paying 60 points for a large blast autocannon with half the range that chews into your transport capacity. Still sound good?

And yes, the big gunz that are heavy support are bs 3, but big gunz on a wagon are only bs 2.

Also, if you like buggies, you'll like dakka jets even better. Trade in those 9 TL bs 2 big shoota shots for 9 TL bs 3 supa-shoota shots that are doubled on the turn you waaagh! And it's also on a flier.

I'll second the bit on no 'ard boyz. The boyz are attractive because they are cheap, and when you pay four points for measly 4+ saves, they aren't cheap anymore, and not very resilant.

Foot slogging burnas are also a no-no. They die just as fast as boyz, but they cost almost three times as much. They need a wagon to cart them around, and magnify their shooting strength. See, when you have 11 burnas on foot, you need to place every single template from each burna, which means that some burnas will get lack-luster shots, and some may not even get to shoot at all. When they shoot from a wagon, you just place one template in the best spot, and declare that all your burnas fire from that spot.

If you wanna run kans, you need a lot more of them. Get a couple more squads of them, and then they can shield your boyz, and overwhelm the enemy anti-tank.

Uh I just checked my Codex again and it says Killkannon is AP3 Strength 7. So either there's a mistake in my book or one of us is wrong.

What about a Boomgun? I just read another article on this site (old, though) that you replied on saying that Battlewagons can take Boomguns, but the Codex doesn't give the option of taking them or say how much it would cost. Can Battlewagons be given Boomguns? When was this changed if its true?

Also, is an 'Ard case worth taking on a BW? From what I see it gives you only extra places to fire out of, or do they do more than that?

Does anyone know where I can find the rules for the Ork Bommers? They're in the June White Dwarf but I don't have a copy.

loota boy wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

loota boy wrote:killkannon is actually only ap 4, not 3. So basicly, you are paying 60 points for a large blast autocannon with half the range that chews into your transport capacity. Still sound good?

And yes, the big gunz that are heavy support are bs 3, but big gunz on a wagon are only bs 2.

Also, if you like buggies, you'll like dakka jets even better. Trade in those 9 TL bs 2 big shoota shots for 9 TL bs 3 supa-shoota shots that are doubled on the turn you waaagh! And it's also on a flier.

I'll second the bit on no 'ard boyz. The boyz are attractive because they are cheap, and when you pay four points for measly 4+ saves, they aren't cheap anymore, and not very resilant.

Foot slogging burnas are also a no-no. They die just as fast as boyz, but they cost almost three times as much. They need a wagon to cart them around, and magnify their shooting strength. See, when you have 11 burnas on foot, you need to place every single template from each burna, which means that some burnas will get lack-luster shots, and some may not even get to shoot at all. When they shoot from a wagon, you just place one template in the best spot, and declare that all your burnas fire from that spot.

If you wanna run kans, you need a lot more of them. Get a couple more squads of them, and then they can shield your boyz, and overwhelm the enemy anti-tank.

Uh I just checked my Codex again and it says Killkannon is AP3 Strength 7. So either there's a mistake in my book or one of us is wrong.

What about a Boomgun? I just read another article on this site (old, though) that you replied on saying that Battlewagons can take Boomguns, but the Codex doesn't give the option of taking them or say how much it would cost. Can Battlewagons be given Boomguns? When was this changed if its true?

Also, is an 'Ard case worth taking on a BW? From what I see it gives you only extra places to fire out of, or do they do more than that?

Does anyone know where I can find the rules for the Ork Bommers? They're in the June White Dwarf but I don't have a copy.

Weird. My codex lists it at ap 4, but when i looked in my friends, it says ap 3. Then I grabbed a 'dex off the shelf in the store, and it said ap 3 as well. It appears that i have a mis-print! I've been playing it wrong for 3-4 years!

Still, even with ap 3, it's still not that great. Short ranged, lower transport, can't move very fast when firing it, and way overpriced. Wagons are transports primarily, not battle tanks.

Battlewagons cannot take boomguns. Only looted wagons.

'Ard case is not worth it ever, it's just a down-grade. It actually gives you fewer places to fire from, because a wagon is open-topped, so all the occupants may fire out of the wagon from any point. It also prevents you from assaulting out of your wagon.

If you just do a quick forum search, you can find lots of old discussions on the fliers that will answer all the questions.

KOBossy wrote:

loota boy wrote:

KOBossy wrote:

loota boy wrote:killkannon is actually only ap 4, not 3. So basicly, you are paying 60 points for a large blast autocannon with half the range that chews into your transport capacity. Still sound good?

And yes, the big gunz that are heavy support are bs 3, but big gunz on a wagon are only bs 2.

Also, if you like buggies, you'll like dakka jets even better. Trade in those 9 TL bs 2 big shoota shots for 9 TL bs 3 supa-shoota shots that are doubled on the turn you waaagh! And it's also on a flier.

I'll second the bit on no 'ard boyz. The boyz are attractive because they are cheap, and when you pay four points for measly 4+ saves, they aren't cheap anymore, and not very resilant.

Foot slogging burnas are also a no-no. They die just as fast as boyz, but they cost almost three times as much. They need a wagon to cart them around, and magnify their shooting strength. See, when you have 11 burnas on foot, you need to place every single template from each burna, which means that some burnas will get lack-luster shots, and some may not even get to shoot at all. When they shoot from a wagon, you just place one template in the best spot, and declare that all your burnas fire from that spot.

If you wanna run kans, you need a lot more of them. Get a couple more squads of them, and then they can shield your boyz, and overwhelm the enemy anti-tank.

Uh I just checked my Codex again and it says Killkannon is AP3 Strength 7. So either there's a mistake in my book or one of us is wrong.

What about a Boomgun? I just read another article on this site (old, though) that you replied on saying that Battlewagons can take Boomguns, but the Codex doesn't give the option of taking them or say how much it would cost. Can Battlewagons be given Boomguns? When was this changed if its true?

Also, is an 'Ard case worth taking on a BW? From what I see it gives you only extra places to fire out of, or do they do more than that?

Does anyone know where I can find the rules for the Ork Bommers? They're in the June White Dwarf but I don't have a copy.

Weird. My codex lists it at ap 4, but when i looked in my friends, it says ap 3. Then I grabbed a 'dex off the shelf in the store, and it said ap 3 as well. It appears that i have a mis-print! I've been playing it wrong for 3-4 years!

Still, even with ap 3, it's still not that great. Short ranged, lower transport, can't move very fast when firing it, and way overpriced. Wagons are transports primarily, not battle tanks.

Battlewagons cannot take boomguns. Only looted wagons.

'Ard case is not worth it ever, it's just a down-grade. It actually gives you fewer places to fire from, because a wagon is open-topped, so all the occupants may fire out of the wagon from any point. It also prevents you from assaulting out of your wagon.

If you just do a quick forum search, you can find lots of old discussions on the fliers that will answer all the questions.

Much appreciated info! Too bad about your Codex, but better to find out now I suppose.

What's the most optimal layout for a BW then? I was thinking about putting a squad of Nobs in one with a Painboy and 20 Slugga Boyz in another so they can move out and take objectives. I plan to put 2 in my revamped army. I wanted to load both with 4 Big Shootas, 1 with Deff Rolla, and on the other put a Kannon for some increased firepower.

I know people will say just load them up with Lootas but I don't want to make my entire army so dependent on that one unit, since I like variety.

loota boy wrote:The big shoota isn't there to shoot, it's there to make sure that a weapon destroyed result doesn't become an immobilized result because you don't have a weapon to remove. Not as important in this edition, but still worth the five points. You'll be moving 12" anyway, so you aren't shooting anything.

mrfantastical wrote:

loota boy wrote:The big shoota isn't there to shoot, it's there to make sure that a weapon destroyed result doesn't become an immobilized result because you don't have a weapon to remove. Not as important in this edition, but still worth the five points. You'll be moving 12" anyway, so you aren't shooting anything.

Actually in this edition all vehicles can still shoot at cruising speed, but you follow the snap shot rules. And so Because of that currently all the buzz is around running 4 rokkits + 1 Kannon to fire 5 STR8 AP3 shots per turn.

loota boy wrote:
I can't comment on nobz in this edition because you can't do wound-allocation shenanagins with them anymore. However, the rule used to be that you took only around 7 nobs, three with pk, three with big choppa, and one doc, all cyborked. I'll assume it holds true in this new edition. 10 nobz is widely considered overkill, but I just don't know how nobz compare in this new edition. I'd play around with loadouts until you found something you think works.

I may be wrong but I don't think wound shenanigans is dead. With Look out Sir it seems like you can accomplish what Nobz use to do in 5th on a 4+ per wound.

KOBossy wrote:

mrfantastical wrote:

loota boy wrote:The big shoota isn't there to shoot, it's there to make sure that a weapon destroyed result doesn't become an immobilized result because you don't have a weapon to remove. Not as important in this edition, but still worth the five points. You'll be moving 12" anyway, so you aren't shooting anything.

Actually in this edition all vehicles can still shoot at cruising speed, but you follow the snap shot rules. And so Because of that currently all the buzz is around running 4 rokkits + 1 Kannon to fire 5 STR8 AP3 shots per turn.

loota boy wrote:
I can't comment on nobz in this edition because you can't do wound-allocation shenanagins with them anymore. However, the rule used to be that you took only around 7 nobs, three with pk, three with big choppa, and one doc, all cyborked. I'll assume it holds true in this new edition. 10 nobz is widely considered overkill, but I just don't know how nobz compare in this new edition. I'd play around with loadouts until you found something you think works.

I may be wrong but I don't think wound shenanigans is dead. With Look out Sir it seems like you can accomplish what Nobz use to do in 5th on a 4+ per wound.

That's loading 50 extra points per BW that have a 1/6 chance of hitting. Its nice for anti-tank and vehicle but seems kind of expensive for what you get.

And yes, with Look Out Sir that allows your Painboy/Leader Unit to have the Nobz take the hit for them, so basically its a Painboy with a possible 18 Wounds assuming you make all your rolls (at least, that's how it is in my idea of 9 Nobz + Painboy). And don't forget, the Painboy gives the Nobz Feel No Pain, which is very nice.