Latest posts for the thread "6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)"

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

Enigwolf — GMT

Hey guys, I've been lurking on Dakka for a while now, and with the advent of 6th Ed I thought I'd throw up a GK list I've been rolling with for feedback. It's done mediocre so far, but against a Vendetta spam or Necron Doomscythes and Canoptek Wraiths it's struggling.

I'm trying to avoid the typical GK lists of Draigowing and Purifier spam and do something a little mixed and different. Tactics after the list.

The List
HQ
---
Librarian with Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Summoning, Vortex, Warp Rift [185]
Inq. Coteaz [124]

Elite
---
Techmarine with Warding Stave, Psychotroke, Rad grenades and 3 servo-skulls [149]

Troops
---
5-man GKSS with Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo and Razorback with Lasc+TL Plas and Warpstab Field [215]
Henchmen with 2 Servitors (Plasma Cannon) and 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith [75]
10-man GK Terminator with 2 Psycannons, Bro Banner, Psybolt Ammo, Justicar with Warding Stave [515]

Fast Attack
---
Stormraven with TLMM and TLLC [205]

Heavy Support
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Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta, Psyflame Ammo, Warpstab Field [275]
Psyfleman Dread [135]
Psyfleman Dread [135]

Total: 1989 Points

Deployment
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GKT splits into 2 Combat Squads
Librarian and 1st GKT Combat Squad deploy inside the Stormraven
Techmarine and 2nd GKT Combat Squad deploy inside the Redeemer (Techmarines can repair from inside the vehicle!)
GKSS deploys inside the Razorback
Techmarine bolsters the strongest piece of terrain (should go from a 4+ to 3+)
Deploy servoskulls to cover the middle of the board (12" radius means 24" diameter... 72" zone of no deepstrike)
Coteaz attaches to the Henchman squad, sit on objective if possible, inside the bolstered terrain piece
Psyfleman Dreads sit on either side of my force for maximum fire coverage, if possible, have one sit with Coteaz's squad inside the bolstered terrain for the 3+ cover save

Tactics
The idea behind this is to push up with the Redeemer and Razorback fast, hugging cover and popping smoke if need be. There's enough troop choices (including 1 static one in the henchman squad) to grab objectives or sit on them if need be. The servoskulls prevent nasty deepstrike shenanigans in the middle of the battlefield, while the GKSS has Warp Quake. It's rare anyone would deepstrike near Coteaz either, since that'll allow 2 plasmacannons and a lascannon to do a free out-of-turn shot at them, which tends to be quite nasty. In a game I played, this meant that my Tau opponent's Crisis battlesuits had to deepstrike in his own deployment zone, spending a full turn moving before they could be effective.

Hopefully by Turn 2 the Stormraven comes in, and depending on layout and how the game is going, either:
a. Zooms across to the enemy's deployment zone, Shadow Skies drops the GKT (which have terminator armor, so if I'm not wrong, don't roll for Shadow Skies scatter). Full round of shooting from here into exposed rear armor, Librarian can do his Warp Rift template to insta-pen vehicles in a flamer template.
b. Hover moves, and drops the GKT+Libby who can shoot as above, then charge.

If the front Redeemer and/or Razorback end up in trouble (either if the vehicle is popped or in a nasty situation), or if the tactical situation calls for it, he can use The Summoning to move them to him for even more shooty shenanigans.

Personal Thoughts
The downside I see with this is that the Redeemer and Razorback could end up in some really nasty situations. In the above mentioned game against a Tau opponent, his Pathfinder+Markerlights and Broadsides essentially wrecked the Redeemer, a Psyfleman, and immobilized the Razorback in one round of shooting. Ow.

I played around with using 2 Stormravens or 2 LRs instead of 1 Stormraven+1 LR. The former option meant that there was a risk of half my army not showing up till later and the rest getting shot to bits, and the latter easily meant 2 wrecked LRs. Also, the Stormraven is my soft-counter to other air units, which hopefully it can wreck with the TLLC and TLMM (using POTM if there's multiple enemy fliers). If not, I'll kinda have to ignore the other fliers...

I've thought about using Paladins instead of GKTs, but that would leave me with only 2 Troops (GKSS and Henchmen) to capture objectives. Also, huge points sink.

Staves for GKSS Justicar, Techmarine allow them to be challenged/challenge other ICs and have a good shot at staying alive.

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

Enigwolf — GMT

A little bit of a shameless bump.

Thoughts on this, people?

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

invisiblade — GMT

I believe Terminators scatter, only jump infantry don't. They're not really in danger of dieing much anyway because now that you can use the 2+ for Dangerous terrain it should be ok.

Psybolt ammo on the GKSS seems like a waste, as does Vortex on the Lib. Not sure exactly where to spend the extra points though.

You don't have much against flyers, nore 2+ armor saves, but that seems to be a GK wide issue atm. At minimal though, I would say you need 1 or 2 hammers in your Termy squad to help take down 2+ armor.

You could do two SR's, and use the extra points for a Solodin. Nothing more than to hide out of LOS from the enemy so you don't loose due to nothing on the board.

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

Enigwolf — GMT

My bad, I didn't include the Hammers in the entry since they're free, and I usually swap the arms (they're magnetized) between swords, halberds, and hammers depending on what I need.

I'm more afraid of Deep Strike mishaps, so I might remove the Psybolt ammo and the Vortex and give the Stormraven a Teleport Homer or something.

Regarding flyers, the 2 Psyflemen Dread and the SR have been pretty successful in shooting down other flyers. But I know this has mainly been due to good dice rolls, so... Point there.

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

DutchSage — GMT

Some points that I am wondering about:

1). How did you get to 124 points for Coteaz? I guess that's a typo?

2). The small Henchman squad. With just two servitors and a jokearo they are going to be picked off quite easily, making Coteaz quite vulnerable in the process as well. I suggest adding a couple of warrior acolytes as meatshields.

3). Psybolt ammunition is best used on 10 strong units. 20 points to upgrade 4 stormbolters makes expensive troops even more expensive. I suggest removing that (use the saved points for some additional Henchman bodies).

4). Since you will be combatsquading the terminators I am unsure a brotherhood banner will be effective.

5). I think you might be misreading what servo-skulls do. They offer NO protection at all against deepstrikers (reread the rules).

6). 4+ cover is a lot less common than it used to be. There is no guarantee that there will be a 4+ piece of terrain in your deployment zone. And even if there is, most often only the walls of the ruin will give a 4+, while the area of the base will give a 5+.

7). Unless I missed something "Shadow Skies" does not allow you to ignore the part of Zoom that disallows (dis)embarking. Please correct me if I am wrong.

8). When in hover mode I believe you still follow all the normal rules for disembarking, meaning you have a max move of 6" before disembarking. This means there isn't an option of coming out of reserves and immediately disembarking (at least I believe the Stormraven is longer than 6"?).

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

darwinn69 — GMT

I hate to say it but I think you are going to have to go with a little bit of cheese in order to make what you are doing work. With two of your troops locked up in combat most of the game tbat really just leaves the SS and henchmen to capture objectives and do stuff. You bought Coteaz you might as well use him. Drop the SS and get as many 3 man units of henchmen in psybacks as you can fit.

Also I dont think I would mess with the librarian summoning trick. Its really just a gimmick that requires a lot to get it to work and doesn't really do that much in the end.

6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

Enigwolf — GMT

Hey folks, thanks for the feedback. I've pretty much since abandoned this list till I can figure out how it properly works (and once people stop bringing out so many damned twin-linked lascannons when they decide to play against me). I've migrated over to this list I posted up here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/462930.page

Would appreciate some feedback on that as I've incorporated advice from here into there!

DutchSage wrote:Some points that I am wondering about:

1). How did you get to 124 points for Coteaz? I guess that's a typo?

Yeah. >.<

2). The small Henchman squad. With just two servitors and a jokearo they are going to be picked off quite easily, making Coteaz quite vulnerable in the process as well. I suggest adding a couple of warrior acolytes as meatshields.

Applied to new list, thanks!

3). Psybolt ammunition is best used on 10 strong units. 20 points to upgrade 4 stormbolters makes expensive troops even more expensive. I suggest removing that (use the saved points for some additional Henchman bodies).

Truth. As above!

4). Since you will be combatsquading the terminators I am unsure a brotherhood banner will be effective.

I can't see any other way to deliver a termie or paladin squad safely without transports... Which requires combatsquadding to do effectively, so should I just remove the banner altogether?

5). I think you might be misreading what servo-skulls do. They offer NO protection at all against deepstrikers (reread the rules).

Also truth. After a few games of preventing infiltrators and outflankers, I kinda forgot it doesn't apply to Deepstrikers!

6). 4+ cover is a lot less common than it used to be. There is no guarantee that there will be a 4+ piece of terrain in your deployment zone. And even if there is, most often only the walls of the ruin will give a 4+, while the area of the base will give a 5+.

My FLGS has a LOT of 4+ cover... Tailoring in a sense? Maybe. 6th Ed rules dictate players take turns to plop down terrain, anyway.

7). Unless I missed something "Shadow Skies" does not allow you to ignore the part of Zoom that disallows (dis)embarking. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There are lots of threads on this. Technically, since the Blood Angels Stormraven got FAQ'd to allow it, I've since played that someone forgot to Errata it in the GK FAQ.

8). When in hover mode I believe you still follow all the normal rules for disembarking, meaning you have a max move of 6" before disembarking. This means there isn't an option of coming out of reserves and immediately disembarking (at least I believe the Stormraven is longer than 6"?).

Flyers in Hover mode are Fast Skimmers, I believe this lets them move up to their max cruising speed and still disembark? I don't remember, I don't have my BRB handy right now.

Thanks folks!

Re:6th Ed Grey Knights 2000 Points (Avoiding Cookie-cutter Cheese)

valace2 — GMT

Keep the banne it's good for negating the eldar an tyranid psychic defenses, at least for activating your force weapons.