http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/17.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net first 3 games of 6th edition

Asgard 501st Imperial Guard Main force 1405 pts
HQ
CCS 3 Melta gun Astropath Chimera "Odin" HHF 165 Warlord
Troops
Veterans 3 Plasma Gun Chimera "Tyr" HHF 170 pts

Platoon
PCS 3 Melta Gun Chimera "Sif" HHF 115 pts
Infantry Squad Melta gun auto cannon Chimera "Hermodr" HHF 125 pts
Infantry Squad melta gun auto cannon Chimera "Hodur" HHF 125 pts

Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship "Hirst" 130 pts
Vendetta Gunship "Lenneth" 130 pts
Vendetta Gunship "Silmeria" 130 pts

Heavy Support
Manticore "Freya" with Hull Heavy Flamer 160 pts
Manticore "Frei" with Hull Heavy Flamer 160 pts

Blood Angel Allies 590 pts
HQ
Mephiston 250 pts

Troop
Assault Squad w Plasma gun in Las plas Razor 170 pts

Assault Squad w Plasma gun in Las plas Razor 170 pts

6 scoring units 3 vendettas 2 manticores + mephiston for counter assault sounds decent.

R1 vs Dan playing Grey Knights
HQ
Coteaz
Elite
5 purifiers w MC TH on Juisticar, 2 psycannons in Rhino w SL, Dozer
5 purifiers w MC TH on Juisticar, 2 psycannons in Rhino w SL, Dozer
5 purifiers w MC TH on Juisticar, 2 psycannons in Rhino w SL, Dozer
Troops
5 Strike Squad w psy cannon in Razorback w HB, psybolt ammo, SL
5 Strike Squad w psy cannon in Razorback w HB, psybolt ammo, SL
5 Strike Squad w psy cannon in Razorback w HB, psybolt ammo, SL
5 Strike Squad w psy cannon in Razorback w HB, psybolt ammo, SL
5 Strike Squad w psy cannon in Razorback w HB, psybolt ammo, SL
Heavy
Dreadnought w 2 TL autocannons psybolt ammo
Dreadnought w 2 TL autocannons psybolt ammo
Dreadknight w personal teleporter, heavy incinerator

Mission: Crusade w 4 objectives worth 3 vp each
secondary objectives, slay the warlord, first blood, linebreaker
Deployment pitched battle
Night fight for first turn

His Warlord Trait - Strategy stealth + move through cover in ruins (pretty good as it helps his cover saves alot)
My Warlord trait - Strategy redeploy units (pretty good as I was able to react and move up my plasma vets to take shots at his dreadknight)

His list is pretty similar to Nick's before he added the dca but has a dreadknight instead of the last dread. He usually plays wolves and we exchange info to talk about wolves

Table has alot of ruins and actually has some water features yay I get to use amphibious chimeras.

I get first turn and am lazy and stay on my side of the table. I deploy my manticores behind terrain on the left supported by ccs, infantry squad objective right side gets the pcs, las/plas assault squad, plasmavets and is and meph


Plan is to rush the pcs las plas and meph forward and rest camps objectives.

He deploys with his dreads in the ruins and most of his stuff in the multi level ruins in the middle for cover with the dread knight and a couple rhinos on the right

I redeploy the plasma vets to get shots at his dreadknight and move some infantry squad up .

I spotlight and shoot his dread and dread knight, taking a couple wounds off the dreadknight but he makes his cover saves on the dread
or I just miss. Shooting wasn't all that good with just 2 manticores, 2 las cannons, 3 plasmas and some multilasers. Miss having vendettas available turn 1.



He rolls up a bit with the dreadknight and 2 rhinos rushing on the extreme right. Dread 1 takes off a hull point from my CCS, dread 2 kills the left las plas. He kills the right las plas and vets with plasma chimera with other stuff.

2 vendettas come on and I manage to kill off one of his dreads. shoot his dread knight but don't kill it. dread knight shunts to toast my vet squad with the incinerator. rhinos advance on the right and he moves to make it hard for vendettas to shoot stuff. I end up having to turbo a Vendetta to the left because I can't target anything. (vendetta las cannons are actually on my paint table cause I forgot to put them back after 2 broke from a vendetta getting knocked off the table which happened again in game 3)



Dan gets out his knights on his objectives and advances on my objectives on both the left and the right (can't see the right because they behind that building)



Right Vendettas try and stop Dan's right side push for my right objective. CCS pushes up to try and toast the advancing rhino. Left most Vendetta enters hovermode and takes out the Rhino in the middle.



Rhino on the left drives up and the Knights get out but don't wreck my Chimera. Rest of the knights on the right take pot shots at my Vendettas not doing much. Right rhino advances.



Infantry on the left get out and the CCS and Manticore move up to flame the Knights and I manage to kill them off. Right side infantry squad gets out on the objective as well. Meph kills off a squad that is threatening my right objective.



Dan's left rhino tank shocks my infantry squad off my left objective they fail their leadership for the death or glory and his right unit pushes into my deployment zone for linebreaker to pull out the win.



MVP: Vendettas took out his dreads and some razors.
Oops it did nothing: the assault squad razors just got killed early with the assault squads unable to do much with just pistols and getting nailed by storm bolters. grey hunters at least have bolters. Plan to rush got axed when their Razors died really early.

Analysis
Should have hung back in cover more first turn to get benefits from night fight. Should have just rushed with mephiston even with the razor for cover getting destroyed but was afraid of the dreadknight. By the time it was dead didn't get to advance that much. Mephiston slaughtered the 5 man squads he did get in combat with. Vendettas are alot tricker target things with having to move 18 and can only turn up to 90 degrees. You can drop to hover mode if you feel its safe or to drop off troops but he had alot of psy cannons. I did drop to hover mode with one of them that had to just fly over and turbo to try and get off the board but didn't quite make it out of range of psycannons.

R2
Ed playing Grey Knights

HQ
Coteaz

xenos inquisitor w psychobroke grenades,m, psyker w hammer hand

Elite
Vindicare Assasin

Purifier Squad x10 w 4 psycannons, 2 daemon hammers and 2 falcions in
razorback w tl assault cannon

techmarine w psychobroke grandes, psyker

troops
5 death cults + 1 banisher in chimera

5 death cults + 1 banisher in chimera

2 warriors w melta + 1 warrior w plasma in chimera

2 warriors w melta + 1 warrior w plasma in chimera

2 warriors w melta + 1 warrior w plasma in chimera

Grey knight terminator x 5 w incinderator, 1 falchions 1 hammer

fast
storm raven w tl multimelta, tl assault cannon, psybolt ammo search light

heavy
purgation squad w 2 incinerator in razorback w tl heavy bolter


Mission Emperor's Will
primary 2 objectives each worth 3 vp. (draw mission from 5th ed)
secondary objectives, slay the warlord, first blood, linebreaker
deployment - diagonal

his warlord trait don't remember (wasn't useful)
My Warlord trait outflankers get acute senses (kinda worthless cause
of astropath)

My objective is in my corner. His is pretty deep into his side but towards the middle.

table kinda sucks for cover with just a hill in the middle and some forests all around and some water features yay I get to use amphibious.

He gets first turn and deploys accros the line with a row of chimeras and a unit on his objective. termies + raven in reserve.


I deploy in the corner with manticores behind with auto cannon infantry by the objective.



Idea is to camp my corner and hopefully get first blood and kill the warlord while preventing him from getting into my deployment zone.

my mysterious objective is a skyfire nexus while his is half charge distance.

Ed rushes forward but I was so far back he doesn't have much shots. I shoot him get first blood.



Storm raven runs in turn 2 going for my fire base but wiffs

I Have left Vendetta, skyfire nexus on my objective and a tl plasma kill his raven and right vendetta kills off coteazes chimera shooting it in the butt.



He fires 4 psycannons at my vendetta and we both realize he doesn't have a scoring unit there and he rushes back with a scoring unit to nab it.

Doesn't quite work out that way I would like as he is really ballsy with termies and drops the right next to my firebase and I spend a whole turn killing them so he gets into my deployment zone with coteaz's unit for line breaker and I can't kill coteazes unit darn must fire barrage and coteaz's 2+ save when he's in the front. The 3 henchmen die really quick once their chimeras and I kill all of those units.

MVP: Vendettas shot up his Raven and some chimeras.

Oops it did nothing: Assault squads really didn't do a whole lot. Should have rushed with them.

Analysis
Should have made a push with the 2 fast las/plas and mephiston for his objective even with his dcas with psychobroke grenades and make him fight me in the middle to keep him away from my deployment zone. Manticores having to fire barage is really hit or miss. Sometimes you can nail multiple vehicles but other times you just scatter a large ammount and miss. Hopefully this gets faqed. The old ordinance barage weapons may choose to driect fire or indirect in 5th was good. Might have to try out Demolishers or Russes.

This table was also kinda gimp on cover were we were generous giving cover if your unit was behind or in one of those patches that was supposed to have trees.


Round 3 vs Kyle with Black Templars
HQ
Master of Sanctity w Artificer Armor, bolt pistol, holy orb of antioch
Command squad 9 initiates, apothcary, standard berear w holy relic, fighting company champ, sarge w terminator honors + powerfist, holy relic, x 2 flamer

emperors champion

elite
dreadnought

troops
crusader squad w 7 initiate x 3 neophytes 1 power fist, 1 melta gun, 5 bolters, 3 shotguns, drop pod with deathwind missle launcher

crusader squad x 9 initiates x 5 5neophytes bolt pistols close combat weapons

crusader squad x 7 initiates x 3 neophys, 1 power fist 1 plasma, 3 bolt pistol close combat weapon x 2 bolters, in rhino w smoke launchers

fast
assault squad x 10 ininites, power axe and melta combs

heavy
vindicator w dozer blade power of the machine spirit smoke launchers

land raider w smoke launchers

Mission The scouring
6 primary objectives worth 1-4 points each, each fast attack destroyed 1point.
secondary objectives, slay the warlord, first blood, linebreaker
deployment hammer and anvil the short table edges.

his warlord trait: his warlords unit gets fnp. (useless cause they have fnp already)
my warlord trait strategy stealth in ruins + move through cover ruins (pretty good cause there are ruins on the table)

This is the random value objectives. I put my 3 deep in my side and camp my back corner with a las plas with mephiston poised to rush and load up the pcs in a vendetta to make a play for his objective.

He puts two in his backfield and 1 farther up in the ruins. Big unit goes on the farther up objective with emperor's champ. rhino unit goes on one of the back ones. he reserves the pod full of guys and the jump packs.

I have the 3 on my left, 2 in the middle in the ruins with my infantry squad and the 1 on the right behind the rock with infantry squad there

He has the 3 in the corner, the 2 in the ruins with his big unit on it and the 4 on the right with the rhino unit on it.

Joy I have to go to him.

Mysterious objectives didn't do much my two had anti charge and skyfire nexus. The left one later had skyfire nexus again. His had anti charge (2) and increased cover (4) The 3 I dropped my pcs on ended up being yay another skyfire nexus.

I'm so far back he litterally has no hots so just moves up turn 1 hiding in ruins for cover.

I take some pot shots my multi lasers and auto cannons don't really do much to guys on foot, las plas wiff shooting the vindicator. Manticores takes off 2 hull points from his land raider and 1 off his dread.

His vindictor nails my left las plas and shakes it. his pod drops back in his area so he can support his objectives. The jump troops drop near me in ruins for cover.

2 empty Vendettas come in and shoot at his rhino and vindicator but get no kills. I divert manticores to the jump pack guys and kill a few and pin them. las plas on the right advances along with meph who hids in a building.



his back field starts shooting at my vendettas wiffing. vindicator toasts a 3 of the left assault marines.



its hard to maneuver the vendettas so I use them to help kill off the jump pack guys. Finally kill his vindicator with the 3rd vendetta with the pcs in it which comes on near his 3 objectives. Run Mephiston into his pod unit and take 2 turns to kill it as its fearless.



I then run mephiston into the emperor's champs unit and get stuck there as he challenges and we both have 2+ saves and he has lot of rerolls. Should have went for the unit on the 4 objective but he was on the second floor which was farther away. assault marines on the left push for the 3 point objective on the left.



his jump pack marines push for my objective but I counter with the ccs moving in and light them up killig them off. Infantry squad on the right gets out to take the objective



he runs his land raider squad into the combat in the middle to help take out mephiston but wait challenges.....




Far vendetta drops to hover and drop the pcs on his 3 objective and melta the dread by it and he shoots them down to the sarge who passes leadership check and holds the objective for me



I win with 9 objective points for 3 objective + 2 for First Blood, Line breaker for a total of 11.
He has 6 objective points for the 4 in the back field 2 guys left on it and the 2 in the middle with his big unit on it.

MVP: The PCS blew up the dreadnought and survived to hold the objective for 3 vp.

Oops it did nothing: The Infantry squad chimeras really did nothing as they were too far back to fire at much should have just left the infantry squads on the objectives and rolled the chimeras up after I saw where his drops where.


Analysis
Thinking cheap infantry squads to load up in vendettas might be worth it but what to cut. Really missing Alrahem platoon in chimeras in this case. Maybe should put him back in but he can be mediocre for
book missions with player placed objectives because the opponent can place them in the middle and dunno how good alrahem will be arrivng really early on a 2+ with the hits on 3+ in assault on vehicles. Should have run Mephiston to the unit with no character on the 4 pt objective.

Question also came up can we place objectives on the second floor of a ruin? It says it can't be in buildings though. Kinda cheesy for calvary and bikers can't get objectives on second floor.

Unit Review
CCS w 3 Melta in Astropath in chimera. B
Was alot more conservative with them because of the new warlord gives up a vp if killed so they didn't do all that much other then sit in the back and give the vendettas +1 to come in except when the opponent got to me when they were foced to act.

Plasma vets in chimera B
were good for hurting the dreadknight but I had a bunch of overheats in my first 2 games. didn't get any marines caught in the open to capitalize on plasmas.

Platoon command w 3 meltas in chimera. A.
Scored and won a game for me. Took out a dread.

Infantry squads with melta auto cannon in chimera B-
They didn't do a whole lot other then score which is still very good.

Vendettas - A.
They killed their share of vehicles and marines. Much harder to kill but much harder to keep on target with having to move 18 and turn max of 90. I think I lost one vendetta at most each game witch is alot different then in 5th when they would all be dead often. This might change as people start to take skyfire emplacements or more twin linked weapons.

Manticores - B.
The whole barage and 5 doesn't wreck on the damage chart made them weaker but they still have their moments.

Mephiston B
He was pretty good for killing troops but got stuck in vs an emperor's champion with a 2+.

Assault squads C
These just sucked offensively and just functioned as a scoring unit pistols just don't cut it and that 1 plasma wasn't all that. Their razors got blasted first being av 11 instead of 12 of my chimeras.

Match up Analysis w potential changes.
MSU GK
I think I want more ranged fire power turn 1. Waiting for Vendettas to show up just doesn't seem like the best. 2 auto cannons, 5 multi lasers, 2 las/plas just doesn't seem good enough. Wolf allies might give more firepower w living lightning, dread, 2 las plas, missle long fangs. Manticores were mediocre because of the nerf to 5 not wrecking but template is strength 10 not just hole so more likely to score damage. Demolisher might be a good replacement for Manticore if Manticores have to fire barage as its still strength 10 and kills Marines and termies but there are less explosions and units can get out behind their wrecked tank for cover so dunno how good it is. Plasma Executioner might be worth considering for killing marines but again with less explosions they can hide behind wrecked vehicl.

Vs Black Templar
Really needed more 48 range. Not much action till Vendettas showed up. For this mission scoring more units in vendettas would have been nice. Thinking maybe infantry squad or two just to carry in vendetta might be worth it but where to find points. Plasma Executioner might be ok or some way of killing marines better.

Some thoughts

6th ed impressions
6th is its a lot more random. Random warlord traits can be really awesome depending on circumstances like redeploy can be pretty good, as can stealth ruins + move through cover ruins if your board is full of ruins. Or your warlord trait can be just useless. Mysterious objectives make it so that the exploding objective can really hurt units with weak saves and you can get skyfire nexus which can be good if there are fliers but is useless otherwise. Random charge distance can have you failing a charge you would have made in 5th but it can also make you charge farther.

Fliers aren't quite as awesome as people think. They are somewhat hard to kill if you don't have skyfire but are still killable and i can be difficult for a flier to target what you want to given having to move 18 and can only turn up to 90. Opponent can just move to minimize what they can shoot at like Dan did really well. Vendettas can drop to hover mode which makes them vulnerable so its only something I did if it was the last turn of the game or there wasn't much that could shoot them.

Games tends to take longer with us learning the rules and taking time to premeasure. Only made it to turn 5. Hopefully this gets better with practice.

Thoughts on missions
Old d3+2 objectives is fair if its 4 objectives.

The old 2 objective draw mission has secondaries now to help it not be a draw yet it still can be a draw.

The random objective value mission is sort of dumb. The person with the 4 has the advantage especially if they can get a 3 in their deployment zone.

Deployment thoughts
Pitched battle is the same as it ever was.

Diagonal is pretty much like spear head still bad for the 2 objective mission.

Hammer and Anvil sucks. Having to huff it all the way to the opponents backfield for objectives is rough. Maplewood had freestanding tables so it was easy to play but in a tournament environment with tables lined up in a row its unplayable.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4575887.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4575887.page GMT IG army is perfect, no more no less

I think you should give LRBT and Executioners a try instead of manticores. They'll back your line up and give your opponents second thoughts before rushing at your deployment zone.

I like BA, if I take them with my Guard army I'd probably take Assault squads in jump packs instead. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4584851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4584851.page GMT
Fortification with a Quad gun might be worth working in. Who ever goes second has the advantage for objective missions as well as the flier advantage as their fliers come in second to shoot the going first players fliers. Found my Vendettas getting nailed by Night Scythes in one game vs Grey Knights with Necron allies.

I feel I need more decent ranged anti vehicle shooting turn 1. I really miss having Vendettas turn 1. Manticores don't pull their weight having to fire barrage and stuff only dies on a 6 now. In the same game vs Grey Knights I did nothing to the dreads turn 1 and the return fire hurt.

Thinking I will swap the Manticores out for Demolishers need to make 10 points though. Range of 24 might bite me in the ass with Hammer and Anvil Deployment. Could also try Medusas.

Manticores took a huge nerf in 6th having to fire barrage scattering the full 2d6. In 5th you could direct fire and get up to 3 templates on a target. Manticores in 6th are still ok if your opponent has a parking lot or large units of infantry but not so hot if your trying to shoot an individual target with not much around it.

BA might not be the best ally.

Mephiston while great for killing troops that aren't terminators runs in to problem fast vs anything with a 2+ save. Dunno if he is worth running because of this. He does counter nob bikers which is a big concern but can be pretty bad vs lists with 2+ saves.

Wolves gives you options for jaws and a bear wolf lord who also insta gibs nob bikers. Big question is if you can get 2 HQs with allied wolves. Points also is a huge problem here.

Sons of Vulcan
Well if your playing large games with double FOC then you go with 6 single vendettas in the 6 slots otherwise yeah 3 is the correct number.

Dunno I never liked LRBT. Single shot can just miss. Not good vs vehicles and not good vs terminators.

Executioners I stopped liking since everyone started going MSU and they got rid of the mystics. They were so good to nail deepstriking termies with mystics or large units of marines that just got their rhino toasted and were clumped. Might give them a shot again but sponsons are a no go too expensive and they gets hot.

Leaning towards Demolisher tho. Strength 10 to instagib nob bikers + damage vehicles and ap2 for killing terminators and the +1 on the vehicle damage table

Dunno about assault squads with packs. They don't offer long range and aren't that great in close combat. I actually found the assault squads pretty bad as their razor would get toasted first being av11 to the chimera av12 and they only had pistols. Going with jump packs also lowers the number of vehicles you have on the board.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4593536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4593536.page GMT
If your going to run Mephiston. You really need to be more aggressive with Mephiston. I usually see him played as rushes the opponent along with the advancing assault squads. If your going to ally blood angels with Imperial Guard you need to take the Storm Raven.

Maybe run your platoon like

Platoon Command Squad
- 3 Melta Guns
- Chimera

Infantry Squad
- Flamer
-Chimera

Infantry Squad
- Flamer
-Chimera

Special Weapon Squad
-3 Melta Guns

Special Weapon Squad
-3 Melta Guns

You have the special weapon squads commandeer the chimeras from the infantry squads who are loaded into Valkyrie Vendetta variants. Cheaper and you have more scoring units then using Veterans.

Only 2 units with melta guns means they can get shot first and might not get where you want.

You don't need Strength 10 to deal with nob bikers. You can torrent them down with lots of shots. Try to outflank or use fliers to shoot out the pain boy.

Space Wolves or Grey Knight allies are better then Blood Angels unless you want the storm raven since they shoot better while being alright in close combat. Twin linked auto cannon dreads and long fangs would help your ranged fire power on turn 1.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4631341.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4631341.page GMT I agree that I needed to get in there with Mephiston if he dies so what he's not my warlord. Dunno if Meph is worth it if 2+ saves become popular. Meph just sucks vs Brad's Deathwing and GK Draigowing.

I dunno if I going to stick with BA for an ally. Might go with Wolves for psyker protection with long fangs for fire support since I actually have it painted.

I'll try the raven when I get a chance.

As far as that platoon build:

Rethinking the infantry squad in the Vendetta. Yeah its great for scoring but tt hurts when one gets shot down and you lose your infantry squad too.

My sisters list has SWS w meltas taking chimeras from squads that blob up and that seems decent so far. Cheaper but your bs3 and ld7 which sucks if you have to issue bring it down and are only 6 guys for getting shot and you can start in your transport. BS4 ld8 and 4 more dudes is 35 pts mor

Dunno about torrenting nob bikers IG chimeras don't have tl psybolt hbs and you don't have psycannons and storm bolters.

Haven't tested Space Wolf or Grey Knight allies just yet. Will be testing Wolf allies next.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4637274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/465339/4637274.page GMT