<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "C&C On Custom Master Pt.2..."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... Previously I posted a thread by the name of 'Homebrew Chapter Master, need C&C, first timer' with my character Kaijjajj. Things didn't go very well and I do admit he was extremely OP, and I mean EXTREMELY OP, even after two more versions he was extremely OP. I apologise to all of you who posted on said thread for my attitude, and for how brunt I was being. If I was wrong, I am sorry, AlmightyWalrus I apologised to you also so I hope there are no hard feelings. Well, this story starts with the Horus Heresy novel Fulgrim. I've recently been reading it and although I've always had a love for the tech-freaks that are the Iron Hands, I haven't seen them for what they are since I began reading Fulgrim. The events have inspired me to change the progenitor of my marines from Blood Angels to Iron Hands which resulted in a load of drastic fluff changes to suit the progenitor switch, and a new chapter name of course. To go with this I completely scrapped Kaijjajj and started my chapter master anew. Using previous advice from my thread with Kaijjajj I have took Vaylund Cal, the Sons of Medusa character from the Badab War books, as the base for this character. He is now being used for Codex: Space Marines too, I just felt I should add that in. He has one piece of unique wargear. As for his rules, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independant Character, and Chapter Tactics are baseline for Vaylund and a standard Chapter Master so no fuss there I hope. He only really has one unique special rule and that is Scientific Application which is essentially Born Ferociousness from Kaijjajj. Wrought From Iron on the other hand is technically not a rule and just explains a reason for his stats and something else. Akin to Kaijjajj I wish for some C&C, as I said above I apologise to those of you I was brunt with, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen eh? so I'm taking a new approach now and I will listen to C&C. As a note, the Obelisk's Tip is based off of the Fist of Dorn sorry, I am using it for now until I can think of my own rules for his thunder hammer, anybody have any ideas for me? I am rather stumped? Also I need a hand with a points cost again if anybody could give me a hand on that subject. Without further ado I present my character!



HENCHRCHON ELV'RIAR'SSEVI
Lord High Thane of the Iron Sons, Forgefather, Spirit of the Forges, Iron Thane of the Qaijjit Conclave

WS.....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld.....Sv
..5........5.......5.....6......3.....4....3.....10......2+

Unit Composition:
1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
Infantry

Wargear:
Artificer Armour
The Obelisk’s Tip
Storm Shield
Servo-Harness
Digital Weapons
Iron Halo

Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear
Combat Tactics
Independent Character
Chapter Tactics
Scientific Application
Wrought From Iron

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Obelisk’s Tip: Resemblant of a great hammer from the outset, upon closer inspection one can see that where the heads of the hammer should be, there is instead barbed mace heads specifically designed and constructed to inflict maximum damage against the foes of the Iron Sons. A massive, barbed, mace-tipped hammer that is a deadly bane to the witch, traitor, and daemon alike, and is crafted from the same ultra-dense Voltajjin material as the weaponry in the Iron Sons armoury and the Obelisk itself, only one as heavily cybernetically enhanced and brutally muscular as Henchrchon could hope to wield it. The Obelisk’s Tip is a master-crafted thunder hammer. All hits from the Obelisk’s Tip are resolved at Strength 10 and add +1 to rolls on the vehicle damage table.

Chapter Tactics: If you include Henchrchon in your Space Marine army then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army count as master-crafted, and all units in your army suitably modified to represent their cybernetic augmentations gain the Feel No Pain universal special rule, but due to it may not run or make sweeping advances.

Scientific Application: Should an enemy drop its guard, Henchrchon is swift to take advantage utilising his cybernetic enhancements to reveal the opening, and lashing out with a swift punch, kick, or headbutt to knock the foolhardy foe to the floor. For every roll of ‘1’ to hit Henchrchon in close combat, Henchrchon may make an additional close combat attack at Strength 5 to represent him using his biotic advantages to take advantage of this opening. He may only direct the hit towards model(s) in base contact.

Wrought From Iron: Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi’s augmetic body is a testament to his lifetime’s work and what little remains of his organics are shot through with bionic and auto-sanguinary systems that increase his strength and endurance beyond even the superhuman levels of a Space Marine. The game effects of this have already been included in his profile and he also should be modelled on a 40mm base.

Lord of the Iron Sons: Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi is a HQ choice for a Codex: Space Marines army. If you use Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi in your army, then you may take no other Space Marine Chapter Master, named or otherwise. If Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi is in your army, you may also include one Honour Guard squad. On top of standard upgrades in the Honour Guard entry, due to the presence of Henchrchon and the traits displayed by their Progenitor, the unit of Honour Guard may exchange it’s artificer armour for terminator armour at the additional cost of +5 points per model. This unit does not count towards your HQ allowance.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4640508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4640508.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... OP.

The character you based it off is 215pts, and you added an additional attack, which by most codexes is around 10pts.

The upgraded weapon (master-crafted and a +1 damage table) would be another 15pts, at least. You upgraded the original character's rule (FnP on devs only) to army wide, which is a HUGE boost. Its actually too much, no matter how many points you make him. His rule in CC to hit people on 1s is worth another 10pts, as S5 hits are nothing to sneeze at.

Not mention he's a beatstick in CC, this should be at least 260pts, whithout even considering army wide FnP.

My honest recommendation is to just use the character you based him off. Either that or change one rule, maybe two. Army wide FnP is a big no, so change chapter tactics to fearless, like the original character.

My biggest problem is that he's both a monster in CC and a huge boost to the army. Most SC are either a close combat monster, or a boost to the army.

So in short, either use the base character with no changes, or change very minor things (not making them better).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641127.page GMT C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... .

Okay so first IMO the stats are okay, especially for someone as revered as a Chapter Master, the initiative seems a bit low, but since he will strike at I1 anyway (Thunder Hammer) it dosent matter

Second, since the The Obelisk’s Tip is a Thunder Hammer and he is S5 he would strike at S10 anyhow, so i suggest leaving that out. The rest seems fairly reasonable.

Third Chapter Tactics are seriously OP, the Master crafted TH part is okay but army-wide FNP even with the movement nerf. Its like giving an entire army a second Invulnerable Save that can be taken after other saves. its really too powerful

Fourth: I think Scientific Application Needs some balancing since its a powerful tool against something like 30 ork boyz in CC but nearly useless against a terminator squad.

Fifth: You can leave Wrought From Iron out, since now we get the extra 3" move in combat during assault, so it would barely change anything.

Overall its okay, but Chapter Tactics needs a serious re-write.
The The Obelisk’s Tip seems powerful, but its 'only" a master crafted TH with the +1 vehicle damage.
Also add "Xeno" in the "that is a deadly bane to the witch, traitor, and daemon alike" sentence. we wouldnt want anyone to think its useless against xeno filth now would we?

I suggest a value of 265 points
125p
+15p (Artificer Armour)
+40p (The Obelisk’s Tip)
+25p (Servo-Harness)
+5p (Digital Weapons)
+55p (Special Rules value)






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its 265 points without the army wide FNP by the way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641570.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641570.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2...
Blacksails wrote:I hate to say it, but this character is also pretty OP.

The character you based it off is 215pts, and you added an additional attack, which by most codexes is around 10pts.

The upgraded weapon (master-crafted and a +1 damage table) would be another 15pts, at least. You upgraded the original character's rule (FnP on devs only) to army wide, which is a HUGE boost. Its actually too much, no matter how many points you make him. His rule in CC to hit people on 1s is worth another 10pts, as S5 hits are nothing to sneeze at.

Not mention he's a beatstick in CC, this should be at least 260pts, whithout even considering army wide FnP.

My honest recommendation is to just use the character you based him off. Either that or change one rule, maybe two. Army wide FnP is a big no, so change chapter tactics to fearless, like the original character.

My biggest problem is that he's both a monster in CC and a huge boost to the army. Most SC are either a close combat monster, or a boost to the army.

So in short, either use the base character with no changes, or change very minor things (not making them better).


Alright, alright. Thanks for your comment and criticism. I added the additional attack seeing as Attack 2 seemed small, I mean SMALL, but seeing as he has a master-crafted hammer I'll just reduce it back too 2.

His CC rule, Scientific Application is there by personal favour, I will change it for a buff straight away should I think of one, so anybody got any ideas?

I would love to use the original character, it's just... he's already a FW character I doubt anybody would let me field him not in his own colours... I just wanted to add some personal Iron Sons flair onto him, so I would really appreciate any help on this.

The Chapter Tactics... I need help with this one then. I want my army to benefit as a whole, rather than just the dev squads so could anybody give me a hand here, I do realise how OP it is now.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641652.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2...
if you really want to buff your army i suggest make "Chapter tactics" change all special melee weapons master crafted (ie. anything thats not a basic chainsword / combat blade)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4641805.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... OP and so I have reduced it so although the unit still has to be suitably modelled for the rule to work, all units within 6" of Henchrchon receive Feel No Pain and it isn't an automatic army wide deal. I hope that makes him less OP and less OTT, I just wanted to have Feel No Pain in his Chapter Tactics without restricting it solely to dev squads which I feel is a little useless for me. I calculated everything with help from my IA book and my SM codex and I am thinking Henchrchon should be around 265-270 points with all the upgrades on top of the basic 215 points for the character he is based off. Thoughts?

HENCHRCHON ELV'RIAR'SSEVI
Lord High Thane of the Iron Sons, Forgefather, Spirit of the Forges, Iron Thane of the Qaijjit Conclave
265 Points

WS.....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld.....Sv
..5........5.......5.....5......3.....4....3.....10......2+

Unit Composition:
1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
Infantry

Wargear:
Terminator Armour
Lightning Claw
Multi-Melta
Servo-Harness
Digital Weapons
Iron Halo

Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear
Combat Tactics
Independent Character
Chapter Tactics
Preferred Enemy: Chaos
Wrought From Iron

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapter Tactics: If you include Henchrchon in your Space Marine army then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead all units in your army suitably modified to represent their cybernetic augmentations within 6” of Henchrchon gain the Feel No Pain universal special rule, but due to it may not run or make sweeping advances.

Wrought From Iron: Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi’s augmetic body is a testament to his lifetime’s work and what little remains of his organics are shot through with bionic and auto-sanguinary systems that increase his strength and endurance beyond even the superhuman levels of a Space Marine. The game effects of this have already been included in his profile and he also should be modelled on a 40mm base.

Lord of the Iron Sons: Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi is a HQ choice for a Codex: Space Marines army. If you use Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi in your army, then you may take no other Space Marine Chapter Master, named or otherwise. If Henchrchon Elv’riar’ssevi is in your army, you may also include one Honour Guard squad. On top of standard upgrades in the Honour Guard entry, due to the presence of Henchrchon and the traits displayed by their Progenitor, the unit of Honour Guard may exchange it’s artificer armour for terminator armour at the additional cost of +5 points per model. This unit does not count towards your HQ allowance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4652271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4652271.page GMT C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4653993.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4653993.page GMT C&C On Custom Master Pt.2...
Panopticon wrote:I like this most recent iteration actually, and would be comfortable playing against it at that point cost.


Oh really? Well then that is rather good for me at least, it proves the recent version of him isn't totally flawed and that I might actually be able to field him.

Until I have other opinions however I won't hold my hopes up sooooo Dakka, everybody else, opinions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anybody? Anybody got any more C&C for the latest incarnation of Henchrchon? I need your help Dakka, please aid me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4655194.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4655194.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2... FNP is if you stack a lot of units in one place a well placed demolisher shell would do a lot of damage. but sounds good besides that ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4666385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4666385.page GMT Re:C&C On Custom Master Pt.2...
Daemonhammer wrote:One disadvantage of this 6" FNP is if you stack a lot of units in one place a well placed demolisher shell would do a lot of damage. but sounds good besides that


And I thank you for your comment Daemon. If he proves to be a success with anybody else you may very well be fighting him at some point.

Any other opinions people?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4667258.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/469190/4667258.page GMT