<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1500 Daemons first try CC welcome"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1500 Daemons first try CC welcome"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
I'm looking at building a new army and was thinking of Daemons. I have not purchased any models yet so am completely open to change on this list. I'm looking for combined firepower + close combat. This list also has 6 troops (MSU) as I beleive it to be important for taking objectives.

BloodThirster Blessing of the Blood god

Flamers of Tzeentch x5
Flamers of Tzeentch x5
Flamers of Tzeentch x5

Pink Horrors x5 Changeling
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Bloodletters x7
Bloodletters x7

Daemon Prince Wings Mark Khorne Blessing of the Blood God
Daemon Prince Wings Mark Khorne Blessing of the Blood God

1499

I beleive this list could handle most things except flyers....I have no clue how Daemons handle flyers at all really. I can't see much in their codex without using allies (open to suggestions there as well).
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4729354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4729354.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
The real core of the new Daemons imo are the Heralds, who make all your units much better. I would bring along 1 Herald of Tzeetch per units of Flamers so you can distribute wounds, upgrade to a Pyromancer to eat challenges (or keep the Flamers alive in a pinch).

The Daemon Princes are a bit underwhelming imo for what you have there, I think they are going to be crushed. Also, Bloodletters are overpriced for what they do now - I would swap them to Daemonettes or more Pink Horrors.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4730231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4730231.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
DP - Wings, Hide = 170 + specialization if ya feel like it

FMC are the new cheese, so many flyby attacks and hammer of wraths its silly. I spammed 6 fmc yesterday against DE. They took down one off the bat but they other 5 wrecked face!

Calypso - can you please explain the pyrocaster for me? I see no use for it. As well, shouldnt we be sticking to the MSU 3x rule for the flamers? It seems since the new white dwarf theyre have been a ton of changes in the flamers role in the army.

Also please explain more about the Tz Herald ideas... =]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4730725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4730725.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
I went back and took a second look at heralds, they just seem overpriced for what they can do. I guess you can distribute one wound away but your pay more then twice the cost of a flamer to do so with half the firepower. I also see your points about being challenged but really how often do units of flamers get charged? They are probably the best unit for overwatch fire that I can think of i can't see too many opponents charging them versus trying to shoot them down.

What worries me about daemons is flyers, especially if they have to rely on vector strikes and screamers as your basically looking at few hits where you need to roll 5 or 6 to just get a single glance. Maybe just the Daemons codex is too old to deal with flyers right now but its too bad their codex update only added chariots (which dont seem that great to me) and did nothing for flyer killing support.

Also, how did you get 6 fmc into an army? Was it double foc? or allies with chaos? I can see 3 from heavy and 2 from HQ from a single foc.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731010.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731010.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731204.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

guyvian wrote:
I think it's great seeing more players using daemons. Firstly: Don't give the bloodthirster blessing of the blood god since it really only works well against psychic powers and there are some armies that don't use that many psychic powers, so it is not worth the points. I like the idea of getting a bloodthirster since they look epic. The units of flamers are definitely worth getting except you should get them in units of 3.

I have to disagree with both of these statements.
BotBG is 5 points well spent. If you go to a tourney, expect to see a lot of psykers and a lot of grey knights. Basically everything that the grey knights will throw your way, you can put a 2+ save against.

Flamers are not really just a suicide unit anymore. I know, this seems backwards, as they got cheaper, but they also got ALOT bettter. Taking large units of flamers gives you a lot of utility.
Have a pesky tank that you need to destroy? Flamers.
That blob of infantry peppering your FMCs with shots? Flamers.
From playing in 6th, and from talking to others that have, I would have to say that flamers and screamers are probably the two best units in the Daemons codex at the moment. FMCs are nice, but a couple of lucky/unlucky rolls (depending on your pov) and those FMCs are grounded and dead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731235.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
Fatecrusher (variants needed for opponents army)

DEPLOYMENT:

Warp Pad: (Skyshield Landing Pad) - 75

WAVE 1:
Fateweaver - 333
Masque - 100 (Draw in squads to the crushers and flamers. DO NOT FORGET TO BRING IC AND Ch MODELS TO THE FRONT!)
3x Crushers - Fury - 130 (Rending for mech killing pwr, trust me... 4 attacks ST6 Rending? Yes please)
3x Crushers - Fury - 130
3x Crushers - Fury - 130
3x Crushers - Fury - 130 (4th squad variable for fiends! Also, consider more Flamers for troop heavy armies)
3x Flamers - 69 (new white dwaft rules w/ 2 wounds! Use these as suicide flamers, DS in and flame away.)
3x Flamers - 69

WAVE 2:
Soulgrinder - Phlegm - 160 (DS on pad, raise shields for 4+ IV save)
Soulgrinder - Phlegm - 160*
5x Horrors -Bolt - 95 (DS near squishy units or the back of mechs)
5x Horrors -Bolt - 95
5x Horrors -Bolt - 95
5x Horrors -Bolt - 95
7x Plagues - Icon - 130 (In case you get the wrong half. DS in a far off objective if needed)

*(sub one SG and 1 horror squad for a decimator w/ conversion cannon and Butcher cannon)

TOTAL: 1999 ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731356.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Agree with all the above. Run princes like this

DP - Wings, Hide = 170 + specialization if ya feel like it

I am starting to like this loadout as a way to deal with flyers

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

FMC are the new cheese, so many flyby attacks and hammer of wraths its silly. I spammed 6 fmc yesterday against DE. They took down one off the bat but they other 5 wrecked face!

Overall I think their damage output and ability to threaten on a broad scale is rather low - if they were 6 wounds like Tyranids we would be talking.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

Calypso - can you please explain the pyrocaster for me?

I see no use for it.

Pyrocaster provides a 4+ Look Out Sir! roll for the flamers - that means you can pop wounds onto any model in the unit within 6". For a large unit of 6 or 7 Flamers, that makes it (assuming you pass your Look Out Sir!) 6 or 7 wounds until you lose a model. I think 5 points is worth the trade off on wounds and the extra Flame Templates it leaves behind.

If they do happen to eat an assault, the Pyrocaster can either Challenge to isolate a dangerous character (how much worse is Abaddon when he can at most deal 2 wounds) or the Pyrocaster can protect your Herald from a challenge until a CC unit can bail out the flamers.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

As well, shouldnt we be sticking to the MSU 3x rule for the flamers? It seems since the new white dwarf theyre have been a ton of changes in the flamers role in the army.

The Elites slot is the best slot in the Daemon Codex (in my opinion). It has the most staying power, the killyest, most durable and fastest units (Fiends, Crushers, Flamers are ALL still good although crushers took a SLIGHT hit with AP 3 weapons now). 3x Flamers is a waste of that slot - the new Wall of Death makes you want a larger unit of flamers to discourage them from being charged - something we never could do anything about before. They are much cheaper and strip hull points like champs - so you want more of them. With units not being able to assault out of a vehicle (in most cases) they will survive the following turn without being in CC much of the time.

Those are all reasons we avoided large flamer units before - along with the cost of flamers in general. The new ones have more wounds, T4, a 5++ (downgraded but potential allocation to keep models on the board) a decreased cost and the mishap table is essentially a 2+ save against being destroyed.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

Also please explain more about the Tz Herald ideas... =]

Going to 2 wounds a piece is the first reason to take a Herald in a Flamer unit. If you put him/her in front they can pass wounds onto models on a 2+, and in that 1 in 6 chance to have to take a save has a 4+ lined up against it. On 20 Bolter shots Flamers take 13 hits, 6 wounds and the Herald eats 0.5 wounds while passing off 5 to the Flamers who take another 4 spread out across different models. The Flamers still remain combat effective at this point, losing no hitting power.

Another reason to take the Herald is it is a great place to throw Bolt - which is still good for taking down vehicles and can fire at a different target than the Flamers with We Are Legion. Gaze provides the same utility which lets a single unit drop down blow up some devastators, take a shot at a vehicle and burn the snot out of another target. On top of that, the base for a Herald of Tzeetch on a Disc is a large flying base - which lets you stack more flamers up against one another in the case of an aggressive drop so you can have more than 3 templates pop out - I have had opportunities to throw down 5 templates when crowding around that base. All this for the cost of about 100 points fully kitted out - and 45 points cheaper if you decide to leave Bolt, We Are Legion and Master of Sorcery at home.

Heralds of Slaanesh, Tzeetch and Khorne are the new black. Slaanesh provides full wound allocation for a unit of Fiends, and gives Hit and Run to Daemonettes or Seekers - while pushing casualties being pulled to the back rank rather than the front. Khorne Heralds do the same for Blood Crushers and Bloodletters (although I would argue Daemonettes are superior to Bloodletters overall now).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731378.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731378.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Agree with all the above. Run princes like this

DP - Wings, Hide = 170 + specialization if ya feel like it

I am starting to like this loadout as a way to deal with flyers

indubitably. I just ran 6 fmc at 2k and it was HILARIOUS.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

FMC are the new cheese, so many flyby attacks and hammer of wraths its silly. I spammed 6 fmc yesterday against DE. They took down one off the bat but they other 5 wrecked face!

Overall I think their damage output and ability to threaten on a broad scale is rather low - if they were 6 wounds like Tyranids we would be talking.

Theyre cheap, flying, vehicle killed, ST10 when ya smash. Sure, they soak up TONS of fire, but think about it. For their points their absorb 2x as much in shooting. Tanks usually try to shoot these down, and they cost avg 160.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

Calypso - can you please explain the pyrocaster for me?

I see no use for it.

Pyrocaster provides a 4+ Look Out Sir! roll for the flamers - that means you can pop wounds onto any model in the unit within 6". For a large unit of 6 or 7 Flamers, that makes it (assuming you pass your Look Out Sir!) 6 or 7 wounds until you lose a model. I think 5 points is worth the trade off on wounds and the extra Flame Templates it leaves behind.

If they do happen to eat an assault, the Pyrocaster can either Challenge to isolate a dangerous character (how much worse is Abaddon when he can at most deal 2 wounds) or the Pyrocaster can protect your Herald from a challenge until a CC unit can bail out the flamers.

Please explain the 2 red areas, flamers get more tempates?
.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

Also please explain more about the Tz Herald ideas... =]

Going to 2 wounds a piece is the first reason to take a Herald in a Flamer unit. If you put him/her in front they can pass wounds onto models on a 2+, and in that 1 in 6 chance to have to take a save has a 4+ lined up against it. On 20 Bolter shots Flamers take 13 hits, 6 wounds and the Herald eats 0.5 wounds while passing off 5 to the Flamers who take another 4 spread out across different models. The Flamers still remain combat effective at this point, losing no hitting power.

Another reason to take the Herald is it is a great place to throw Bolt - which is still good for taking down vehicles and can fire at a different target than the Flamers with We Are Legion. Gaze provides the same utility which lets a single unit drop down blow up some devastators, take a shot at a vehicle and burn the snot out of another target. On top of that, the base for a Herald of Tzeetch on a Disc is a large flying base - which lets you stack more flamers up against one another in the case of an aggressive drop so you can have more than 3 templates pop out - I have had opportunities to throw down 5 templates when crowding around that base. All this for the cost of about 100 points fully kitted out - and 45 points cheaper if you decide to leave Bolt, We Are Legion and Master of Sorcery at home.

Heralds of Slaanesh, Tzeetch and Khorne are the new black. Slaanesh provides full wound allocation for a unit of Fiends, and gives Hit and Run to Daemonettes or Seekers - while pushing casualties being pulled to the back rank rather than the front. Khorne Heralds do the same for Blood Crushers and Bloodletters (although I would argue Daemonettes are superior to Bloodletters overall now).

How? Explain this nonsense!

EDIT: Caly - we should sit down and make a 6th ed daemon tactica for dakka. The current one is outdated and these new tactics could be useful. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731531.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731531.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
Since a wound is allocated to the Character you can attempt to Lookout Sir! the wound. This succeeds on a 4+ for an upgrade character and a 2+ for an independent character.

Lookout Sir! allows you to assign the wound to another model within 6" of the character - choose an unwounded model to assign the wound to. Roll your saves, if you fail you lose 1 wound of 2 (or 3 or 4 how you like it). Rinse and repeat until your IC fails enough Lookout Sir! attempts and saves to die, you run out of unwounded models or you run out of wounds.

The extra flame templates refers to the plethora of 1 wound models floating around the place who can still shoot, where normally you would have been removing models from the front rank.

Some USR (Fearless, Counter Attack, Preferred Enemy) are transferred to the squad now from an IC. Soporofic Musk on a Slaanesh Herald gives the unit it joins Hit and Run (Daemonettes, Seekers specifically).

Edit: Someone please correct me if I am reading this rule incorrectly - it seems to be at the heart of the new allocation tricks used by Nob Bikers who are all Characters and pass wounds out on a 4+ and by Paladins, and by the Harliestar with Vect and that 2+ Eternal Warrior Phoenix Lord.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4731614.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
The Masque (goes with Daemonettes)
Herald of Tzeentch Disc, Bolt, Legion, Master of Sorcery (1 with each flamer unit)
Herald of Tzeentch Disc, Bolt, Legion, Master of Sorcery

Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster
Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster

Pink Horrors x5 Changeling
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Daemonettes x10

Screamers x6

Daemon Prince Wings Hide

1496

Is this list now too weak if I get assaulted?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732373.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome IC, so she canto join the Daemonettes - also 10 is too few, might as well grab some more screamers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732495.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome MSU for daemons is not the most effective way to go. It seems like it gives you the ability to contest/hold more objectives, but those units are really too weak to do so. I've been operating pretty comfortably with 3 troops at 1850, with all the troops being fairly resilient.

I'm also becoming a huge fan of maxed out flamers and screamers, as opposed to multiple smaller squads. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732575.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732860.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732860.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome MSU is the way to go. I've been fairly successful with MSU lists as I hide my daemonettes until they are meeded late game. I agree that we max out on screamers and flamers, use heralds and I see no reason to take a DP when Screamers do more for less.

Well you need troops. Some troops to grab objectives are required. Daemon troops clearly suck. So I want them cheap. I want them MSU as well. I need four troops at 1500-1750 and five at 2000 as a rule of thumb.

I have three choices that I feel viable in 6ed ...
Nurglings - only placeholders. I will win by decimating my opponet (first blood, slay the warlord, etc) and contest everything else.
Deamonettes - Well they aren't strong but they are fast. So hide them until you need them. They will not likely be prioritized if you load up on good elites and fast attack.
Plaguebearers - They are durable but often never get to the objective, If they scatter to far you are running them all game to get them to an objective. Still a squad can be useful.

So what are we afraid of? Warp quake and Night Scythe spam head the list. We can mitigate warp quake with Fateweaver rolls. The only durable squad vs. Night Scythes are Bloodcrushers which are feasible at 1500 but better at 1750+.

What are the best codex options?
Fateweaver - At 1500+ try very hard to include him.
Flamers - Led by Blue Scribes and/or Heralds these guys are simply excellent. Fit in as many as you can.
Screamers - Yep. As many as you can again.
Bloodcrushers - As mentioned - do you see IG and Necron lists out there a lot?

Below 1500 you can experiment a bit with Soulgrinders or DPs as they are a lot more difficult to deal with at lower point levels. At 1500+ Screamers are simply better at killing things.

I've been running a hybrid Fatecrusher with good results ...

Kairos Fateweaver 333
Blue Scribes of Tzeentch 130

2x 6 Flamers of Tzeentch (Pyrocaster) 286
1x 7 Flamers of Tzeentch (Pyrocaster) 166

5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle 75
3x 5 Deamonettes of Slaanesh 210

2x 6 Screamers of Tzeentch 300

-1500-

1750:
- drop the large flamer squad -166
- add skulltaker and 6 bloodcrushers +415

2000:
- add 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle 75
- add 7 Screamers of Tzeentch 175

At 1500 Skulltaker and Crushers are debatable and expensive - they are resiliant against Necron scythe spam - a main weakness we have playing daemons. I also like to use escalating lists. So bBlue Scribes only a 1500 and at 1750 the list starts to shine when skulltakers and crushers are added in.

The Masque just does not cut it. Take the Scribes for your flamers.

I will note that at Nova the list that made the finals had DPs. But he lost because he did not have a durable enough squad against IG dakka. Weaver/Crusher/Herald are just that. That said it was a great result.

edited for clarification]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732896.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732896.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

Slagmar wrote:
Hmm..so i should remove the Masque then? I dont see how having a T3 model worth 100 points out on its own is a very good idea. Seems like an easy kill. I liked the idea of being able to push other units around but it doesn't seem viable anymore. Anyone had luck with this model?

I have, but it really only works with an MSU list. This isn't really a contradiction - I agree that MSU can work, I just think that its not the best way to do so.

But if you want a pavane, take the Bluescribes.

Daemon troops have really one purpose: holding objectives. Anything else they can do is just gravy on top, which is why I've been running mainly horrors with a large block of daemonettes. The horrors can stand off and shoot, contributing that way, while the daemonettes, in the right circumstances, are surprisingly resilient.

Vs. Night Scythes, massed horrors can actually do a half-decent job of swatting them out of the sky. But your best bet against flyers, for now, is vector striking blood thirsters. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4732946.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
On paper it seems pink horrors are one of the best troops units. Getting 3 str 4 shots for 17 points is decent for a troop plus you can throw in a bolt for cheap if you want to.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733020.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733020.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
In 6th, he's just gotten better, because of the flying monstrous creature rules and smash. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733076.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

Vs. Night Scythes, massed horrors can actually do a half-decent job of swatting them out of the sky. But your best bet against flyers, for now, is vector striking blood thirsters.

Horrors have not swatted anything out of the sky for me yet. That is why i dropped them from my lists ... We need allies to swat flyers and I'm going to wait for the new daemon codex before adding them. I imagine lots of autocannons and a squad behind an AGL w/ autocannons as well will do the trick. Then I'll drop the crushers. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733243.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733243.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
Im also still sticking to the idea of MSU for Flamers, purely based on alpha strike options, I use they as a suicide drop squad (Hell only 1's are bad on the table) and their firepower at 3 is enough in most cases to break a squad, If not two squads could deepstrike on either side.

You can probably use anything you want in a daemons list at the right number, I think it would be a good idea for some clever clogs to make a handy dandy list like Daemonettes/Seekers take 15+ to be really effective or such like.

Heres how i'm playing at the mo at 1500 for comparison.
Kairos
Bloodthrister - Blessing, Might

3 x Flamers
3 x Flamers

10 x Plaguebears
8 x Horrors - Bolt, Changling
8 x Horrors - Bolt

6 x Screamers

1 x Daemon Prince - MoN, NT, IH

My advice as a semi noobie myself is to go ahead and buy some units: Horrors, Plaguebears etc and have some games, just avoid Beasts of Nurgle lol. Im sure you'll find your sacred number]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733312.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4733312.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome Ch and IC to front. Bonus: 3+ Iv w/ reroll near fate. Soaks up firepower. At least 2x points worth

2) Fateweaver is well worth the risk

3) Flamers+ Pyrocaster+ Blue Scribes = BANNANNANANANANANAS]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4734401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4734401.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome
Lord of Change
Herald of Tzeentch Disc Bolt Legion Master of Sorcery
Herald of Tzeentch Disc Bolt Legion Master of Sorcery

Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster
Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster

Pink Horrors x5 Changeling
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5

Screamers x6
Screamers x6

1486]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4744210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4744210.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

Slagmar wrote:
thanks all, i think I'll try out a tzeentch list and see how that goes. This is the list I will give a shot at first and am now curious what type of armies or units I might struggle against? (aside from Grey Knights as I think all Daemons struggle against). Also not sure whereto put the last 14 points.

Lord of Change
Herald of Tzeentch Disc Bolt Legion Master of Sorcery
Herald of Tzeentch Disc Bolt Legion Master of Sorcery

Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster
Flamers of Tzeentch x6,Pyrocaster

Pink Horrors x5 Changeling
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5
Pink Horrors x5

Screamers x6
Screamers x6

1486

Looks like a good tzeentch list man, good luck wth it. I think its got a good amount of killy stuff and 5 scoring units with 4+ invuls at 1500 should serve you well. Be careful with LoS now though, as wounds allocated by LoS with the faq require the wound to be allocated to the model nearest the character instead of any within 6". If you juggle the wounded guys to the back it might still be worth it, but if folk pour fire on a unit over one turn you'll start losing flamers quicker than before the faq. That said, the amount of 2 wound units you have should encourage your opponents to split their fire, and you should be able to weather enough fire to get off a strong second turn assault/flame. How are you splitting your waves?

Lists you might struggle against are those who put out large amount of lower strength fire - I find my 5+ save units like screamers and flamers do not like massed bolter fire, as you will eventually fail those saves. However, I think you will munch terminators easily with all those flamers and screamers. Close combat armies will really struggle against this army, and even carparks should get munched if your army survives the initial round of shooting, which I believe it should.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4744866.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4744866.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome FaQ things have changed pretty radically. First LoS is not nearly as effective as it was. I don't f need to take heralds or scribes to front my flamers as they are not as effective anymore. I'll take the Pyrocaster just for my initial DS. The good news is we can now skyfire and don't need allies. Kind of lovks us in to Tzeentch DPs ... So I would rather have a DP than two heralds.
Daemon Prince, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery 240
Master of Soercery is your ten point , I can fire twice and vector strike upgrade.
Flamers, Screamers - still effective.
Horrors are unchanged but do we need bolts as much now on them? If I'm running breath, bolt DPs ( Fateweaver and one heavy) I think 'bearers are better. I would take one squad of horrors though w/changeling.
So for your list ... no changes really needed except maybe a DP over the heralds. This assuming your Horrors have a bolt each - no?

I'll be playing my 1500 list a bit differently but hey - yours should work fine. I'm now revamping my list to accommodate the FaQ. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745031.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

felixcat wrote:Well with the the new FaQ things have changed pretty radically. First LoS is not nearly as effective as it was. I don't f need to take heralds or scribes to front my flamers as they are not as effective anymore. I'll take the Pyrocaster just for my initial DS. The good news is we can now skyfire and don't need allies. Kind of lovks us in to Tzeentch DPs ... So I would rather have a DP than two heralds.
Daemon Prince, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery 240
Master of Soercery is your ten point , I can fire twice and vector strike upgrade.

Master of Sorcery is probably unnecessary. I think that you're going to be happy firing two weapons a turn. Without We Are Legion, you're not going to get opportunities to fire all three weapons as often as you'd like.

felixcat wrote:Horrors are unchanged but do we need bolts as much now on them? If I'm running breath, bolt DPs ( Fateweaver and one heavy) I think 'bearers are better. I would take one squad of horrors though w/changeling.

I think its a nice option, for only 10 points. If there's something else to be bought, I think you can live without them, but it gives your squad some flexibility. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745217.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745217.page GMT Re:1500 Daemons first try CC welcome FAQ's so now that I have I can't see taking heralds anymore which has been stated. Now that FMC can skyfire it makes adding the DP more attractive for sure. Time to go back to the drawing board on my list lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745323.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome Master of Sorcery allows you to vector strike and fire two weapons. It's pretty cheap at the cost but not necessary. Vector strike and skyfire is what your flying DPs should be doing all game. So I would add it but it's a choice. What three weapons are you firing, btw? I fire two - breath and bolt. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/474240/4745992.page GMT 1500 Daemons first try CC welcome

felixcat wrote:

Master of Sorcery allows you to vector strike and fire two weapons. It's pretty cheap at the cost but not necessary. Vector strike and skyfire is what your flying DPs should be doing all game. So I would add it but it's a choice. What three weapons are you firing, btw? I fire two - breath and bolt.

Ah, I see. My point was that you rarely get a chance to fire three weapons. Didn't think about vector strike + 2 weapons.

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