flaming tadpole wrote:I think this list is pretty solid the only thing i might do is trade out the megaboss for a big mek w/ shock attack gun, that way you have something else softening up the enemy before your main forces get there, plus i thought the shock attack gun was insane in 5th but now you can move and shoot with it! and the best part is your bs is only going down by one!

Anyways whatever you choose im sure you'll do fine and I wish you the best of luck!

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

skyfi wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

looted this reply from the-waaagh

"Just so its clear and specific; if you go to your Ork Codex and look at the entries for Ork Boyz you'll notice for the weapons section it says that for every 10 Orks in a mob, one Ork can exchange etc. " It says ork, not ork boy I think. An ork nob is still an ork and can be given a big shoota upgrade.


If you refuse a challenge you can't use that characters leadership that round, but I didn't know if that extended to bosspoles too?

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

skyfi wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
Yes. The only thing you lose should you not accept the challange is their attacks.

If you look at the codex under under what wargear the nob boss upgrade can take it doesnt allow a big shoota. Only an ork boy can and only for every 10 boyz. When you upgrade a boy to nob he no longer counts as a boy and cant take a big shoota.

looted this reply from the-waaagh

"Just so its clear and specific; if you go to your Ork Codex and look at the entries for Ork Boyz you'll notice for the weapons section it says that for every 10 Orks in a mob, one Ork can exchange etc. " It says ork, not ork boy I think. An ork nob is still an ork and can be given a big shoota upgrade.


If you refuse a challenge you can't use that characters leadership that round, but I didn't know if that extended to bosspoles too?

yes a nob is an ork, but if you look p100 of the ork codex in the bottom right hand corner of the ork boyz troop selection it reads,

CHARACTER:
-One Boy may be upgraded to Nob..Xpts
-He may replace his choppa with one of the following
--------big choppa...Xpts
--------power klaw...Xpts
-He may take one of the following:
--------eavy armor(if not an Ard Boy Nob)...Xpts
--------bosspole...Xpts

once you upgrade an ork boy to a nob those are the options/wargear available for him, nothing else.

as for the bosspole you can use it to re roll any failed morale test, then one wound is inflicted on the unit except the character with the bosspole.

skyfi wrote:


Above where it says the wargear allowed for the character, it lists upgrades for ANY ork in the mob... Army builder lets me take one.. and giving your nob a big shoota seems to be a pretty common tactic around these boards esp. after 6th/precision shots.

More or less the argument is from my understanding.... A nob is an ork, who like a boy, is also an ork therefore the line "any ORK may replace his shoota/slugga for a big shoota etc"

I know that if you refuse a challenge with your warboss, you can't use his LD9 that round... but does it actually extend to the bosspole? ie. can't re roll nob's LD 7 with warboss' pole because warboss was cowering that tturn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1060144

skyfi wrote:
so this is RAW you're arguing?

1. A nob isn't an Ork (codex ispeciic 1 of 10 orks not boys.
2. The mistake on game workshops website is just that and nothing more?


I just don't agree with you. I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either. Really comes down to your local area.

My argument is, a nob IS an Ork, the fig in website shouldn't. Be unfixed with illegal wargear for that long...

And could you not just upgrade a boy to a big shoota, then upgrade him to a nob? No where
In FAQ does it say he would switch out a big shoota if he had one, ONLY a regular shoota....


So logical deduction tells me if the boy with a big shoota got strong enough he could be promoted by way of his taking control of his mob (with big shoota from his boy days in hand still...)

Not sure where rules as written disallows this?? And no I'm not giving the nob a bi shoota, give it to a boy who is then upgraded to nob..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also seems properly orky! Wouldn't the biggest and best have da beat stuffs?

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

skyfi wrote:
so this is RAW you're arguing?

1. A nob isn't an Ork (codex ispeciic 1 of 10 orks not boys.
2. The mistake on game workshops website is just that and nothing more?


I just don't agree with you. I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either. Really comes down to your local area.

My argument is, a nob IS an Ork, the fig in website shouldn't. Be unfixed with illegal wargear for that long...

And could you not just upgrade a boy to a big shoota, then upgrade him to a nob? No where
In FAQ does it say he would switch out a big shoota if he had one, ONLY a regular shoota....


So logical deduction tells me if the boy with a big shoota got strong enough he could be promoted by way of his taking control of his mob (with big shoota from his boy days in hand still...)

Not sure where rules as written disallows this?? And no I'm not giving the nob a bi shoota, give it to a boy who is then upgraded to nob..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also seems properly orky! Wouldn't the biggest and best have da beat stuffs?

1. the issue isnt whether or not a Nob is an ork. the issue is whether he can be upgraded with a big shoota. if the wargear is not under what that upgraded model can take then that model can not take that upgrade. end of line.
example: dark eldar kabalite warriors can be put into squads of 5-20 kabalite warriors. for every 10 kabalite warriors 1 can take a dark lance or a splinter cannon. 1 kabalite warrior may be upgraded to a sybarite(dark eldar sergeant) both a kabalite warrior and a sybarite are dark eldar, but the sybarite has wargear options under its "CHARACTER OPTIONS" that only it can take. if a warrior was upgraded to a have a splinter cannon and then upgraded to a sybarite, then it would have to drop the splinter cannon and pick from the option available to that model and that model only.
the same example can be seen in the marine codex and the other MEQ codexs as well as the ORK codex.

2. if you apply to much logic to GWs decisions you lose, its as simple as that. we've all done it and lost. alot of the stuff they do or rules they FAQ dont make sense. for example a model that is being tank shocked by an ork battlewagon with a deff rolla is allowed to take a cover save. really, a cover save from a molten roller of spiky death that is spinning at thousands of rpms?

3.the fact that GW has a "old model" labeled wrong on their website isnt surprising. they durp up in proof reading their content all the time. whats funny is that they dont even include the "big shoota" in question in his wargear under his stat line. also if you apply the W.Y.S.I.W.I.G.(what you see is what i get) rule to that model it would only have a shoota or a TL shoota.
example: in one of the editions of warhammer fantasy their was screw up with "rules as written" with a rule that stated "...after rolling to hit, re roll all failed misses." the context in which the sentence was written and where it was written in the rules was an indication that GW meant to write "re roll misses", but if you read that part of the sentance as "rules as written", it is actually saying to re roll your hits. some power gamer during an ard boyz tournament used that to his advantage and after that GW ard boyz tournament, GW had to FAQ/ERRATA that specific rule.

4 the reason why they havnt FAQed this spevific issue is that their isnt a general problem understanding that when an "ork BOY" is upgraded to a NOB he is only allowed specific wargear optoins. check other peoples lists for ork army lists and one can see that they have not upgraded their nobz with big shootas simply because the option isnt there.

5.even "if" you were able to give a nob a big shoota then it still would be a negative for the nob. if you give a nob a 2 handed weapon then they would lose their CC weapon bonus attack on the charge. this in turn causing your now S5 model with 3 base attacks to loose 1 out of a possible of 5 attacks on the charge.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes on p88 of the ork codex their is a bit bashed nob that is holding a bit that is a big shoota, but the issue is still the same. the big shoota is not available to the nob because it is not in his wargear options.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
simple answer is as stated before if the option isnt available for the nob then they cant have that peice of wargear. end of line.

if youre trying to apply fluff to rules then 1. it should be in a different category on this forum and 2. applying fluff doesnt get you any further on the table top... unfortunately.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
using that poll, it further disproves the statements that the "plenty of other people including reputable ork generals on Dakka are running nobs with big shootas" and "I don't think there is a consensus on the matter either". if one looks just at the poll by itself 80% said its illegal, granted theres only 20 votes total.

 maxpower3579 wrote:
Ok, no. you cannot have a sybarite with a dark lance. it says, "for every 10 models in the squad, one KABALITE WARRIOR may replace his splinter rifle with:..." it does not say sybarite, and what makes you think its give weapon THEN upgrade to sybarite? im pretty sure this all happens at the same time. so you cannot do the give gun then make a sybarite. so its the same with the nob issue, its not like its in parts, you would do it all at once, not this part then this one.