<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! 40k, although I can't remember what I was playing at the time. I remember walking into the local hobby shop and laying my eyes on one of the most glorious things I had ever seen: The brand new Cadian Plastic Army Box Set, a few hundred dollars of pure awesome. I had always fancied Cadians, but because they were metal minis prior to this time, that was a terrible proposition for a young man with little to no cash flow. These new plastics were so much more affordable on the other hand. I impulsively bought the gak out of that box, took it home and put some of it together. Now for a variety of reasons I gradually fell away from the game, and it got shelved. Several changes of address and towards the end of my university career, i stumbled upon 40k again. I got reading the fluff and fell in love all over again. So at first chance, I went home and found some of my guard miniatures, the ones i had put together. I desperately looked all over for the rest of it and couldn't find it, so i began a new journey with Imperial Guard. Eventually I ended up with more than 2500 points of assembled IG. Vendettas, a Manticore, Executioner, Plasma/Melta vets, 3 chimeras etc, etc. Something for every role basically.

Fast forward a year and a bit later. I helped my mother move again, and what did I find? An old rubbermaid container labeled "Warhammer Stuff." Praise Jesus, I found so much useable stuff it isn't even funny. I found a LRBT assembled (with the worst weapon loadout ever) and already converted it to an exterminator, a built chimera, a shrink wrapped LRBT from the 3rd edition (i think) and so much more, Now to the point of all this... I want your opinions on what type of Leman Russ I should make with this, assuming i can get my hands on whatever parts I need.

Due to choices I made in the past I have an Executioner with a Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons and this new Exterminator with 3x HB that I can't modify. I also have a sponsonless LR chasis that I was using as a demolisher, but due to the new rules, i'm wondering what you all think i should turn the unassembled LR/previously Demolisher into. I can throw sponsons on one and use it as a punisher, or keep it as a demo, and build a sponsonless LRBT but im really not sure what I should do.

So, if you had these 4 russes, how would you run the second two? and keep in mind im not necessarily using them all the time in the same game. I have many models to choose from. Yes I am looking to magnetize options on these 2.

TL/DR:

Have Executioner with LC/PC sponsons, and Exterminator with 3 HBs. and 2 Russes I don't know what to do with. What would you do? I have the pieces/conversion power to make just about anything.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960810.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960810.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
That way, you don't have to settle on one single tank type, you can run them as whatever you want!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960822.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960865.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! Link 1, and Link 2.

As for what you've got, I'd keep the exterminator as-is for infantry killing and swatting at annoying AV10 vehicles. The demolisher I'd keep as a demolisher, and that's honestly what I'd probably make the other one into if you fancy a little conversion work.

Never been the biggest fan of executioners. Small blasts don't work well against displaced troops and S7 is only so-so against most vehicles. Plus, there are new 6th ed things that put me even farther off, namely that we now have fliers (which an executioner can't target), and the plasma sponsons on a russ can now hurt the tank itself with overheating.

Most importantly, in this setup, the tank is INSANELY expensive. Given that it's going to look scary, it's probably going to be 250 points thrown down the drain every game your opponent brings deepstriking melta, or railguns, or any of a host of things that can handle russes.

Nice find on the old minis, BTW.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960890.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4960890.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
 Ailaros wrote:
Link 1, and Link 2.

As for what you've got, I'd keep the exterminator as-is for infantry killing and swatting at annoying AV10 vehicles. The demolisher I'd keep as a demolisher, and that's honestly what I'd probably make the other one into if you fancy a little conversion work.

Never been the biggest fan of executioners. Small blasts don't work well against displaced troops and S7 is only so-so against most vehicles. Plus, there are new 6th ed things that put me even farther off, namely that we now have fliers (which an executioner can't target), and the plasma sponsons on a russ can now hurt the tank itself with overheating.

Most importantly, in this setup, the tank is INSANELY expensive. Given that it's going to look scary, it's probably going to be 250 points thrown down the drain every game your opponent brings deepstriking melta, or railguns, or any of a host of things that can handle russes.

Nice find on the old minis, BTW.



Are you suggesting I run two sponsonless demolishers?

I thought I recalled you advocating HBs in threes in one of those threads though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961601.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961601.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
Scippio Martinez wrote:
I thought I recalled you advocating HBs in threes in one of those threads though.


Probably an old thread. Now that LRs lost their old rule that let you fire the turret in addition to anything else you could fire that turn you're stuck with snap firing the sponson guns if you use the main gun (and you always use the main gun). With that in mind it's no longer worth putting sponsons or hull LCs on any LR that has an ordnance main gun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961614.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
I guess I can possibly still see the bolter boat russ. You're looking at 20 points for a heavy bolter hit per turn. If you take heavy bolter HWSs, it costs you 17 points per bolter hit per turn, but those 3 extra points spent are EASILY covered by the fact that the carrier its mounted on is practically indestructible when you compare it to the risible fragility of HWSs. Plus, a vanilla russ is going to want to stay much further away than a demolisher.

That said, I'm not so hot on LRBTs right now. They got better against vehicles with glancing to death and an easier time hitting, but they also got half as likely to wreck vehicles outright. A demolisher is just so much killier than a regular russ nowadays, I find it harder to justify the other type.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961647.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4961647.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
 Ailaros wrote:
I'd take demolishers with just a hull heavy flamer.


I don't think that is such a good idea, as the flamer is unable to snap fire and so can't fire with the demolisher cannon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4962340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4962340.page GMT Re:Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4962713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4962713.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
Trickstick wrote:I don't think that is such a good idea, as the flamer is unable to snap fire and so can't fire with the demolisher cannon.

You're only ever looking at a heavy bolter hit every other turn with a hull heavy bolter. That's not that far up from doing nothing.

Meanwhile, the demolisher is going to be getting in people's faces, which means it might well have range to get a solid flamer hit off later in the game. Being closer also means that you're going to be closer to your opponent's objectives, and heavy flamering troops off of an objective is a very good thing.

Basically, a heavy bolter will always do virtually nothing. A heavy flamer will virtually always do literally nothing, but occasionally win you the game. The latter seems more useful to me.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4963673.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4963673.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! I know it's a lot of points but in fun games I have commander pask in a demolisher will a hull lascannon and sponsors so you got a good chance at hurting stuff with bs4 at range and with the cannon you plus 1 to the penetration roll with crack shot so against vehicles you got a strength 11 ap2 cannon... Just for fun!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992741.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
Shadows7x wrote:
I don't think sponsor are terrible, With a 24inch range on a demolisher cannon you need something to shoot before you get within that range... Then you bring the pain!
I know it's a lot of points but in fun games I have commander pask in a demolisher will a hull lascannon and sponsors so you got a good chance at hurting stuff with bs4 at range and with the cannon you plus 1 to the penetration roll with crack shot so against vehicles you got a strength 11 ap2 cannon... Just for fun!


A. An argument isn't very good when you advocate for something, then say "I know it's X but..." especially when that 'but' is "but in Fluffy/fun games".

That tends to translate to "Its good. Well, its not good, but in fun games its cool."

B. Pask doesn't help snap shooting at all, so in addition to wasting points on sponsons, AND a hull lascannon, youre wasting points on pask. Essentially netting yourself 1 less inch on scatter (woohoo?) and +1 to pen? 6 snap shot bolter shots and a snap shot lascannon (xD what) are virtually worthless. Adding pask doesn't help that worthlessness.

You already get to roll two dice and pick highest for the demolisher. If you're shooting at anything tougher than AV12, you're being kinda silly with that massive pie-plate of doom.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992809.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992809.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
And that's assuming that you're snap firing the heavy bolters. If, for whatever reason, there isn't something within 30" to hammer, you can always fire the bolters instead. Were russes still able to flat-out, then of course you'd want to be doing that with a demolisher that's out of range, but as you can't, the sponsons DO give a little bit of insurance. They also help against those pesky AV10 vehicles that are superfast and rush around with melta and lance weapons.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4992898.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
 Ailaros wrote:
And that's assuming that you're snap firing the heavy bolters. If, for whatever reason, there isn't something within 30" to hammer, you can always fire the bolters instead.


So why not spend fewer points on a hull LC as your insurance against being stuck doing nothing? Even at full BS a pair of HBs are mediocre for 20 points, while a hull LC has the potential to do something useful if the tank is stuck in a bad spot with no targets for the main gun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993187.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993187.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993336.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993336.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! Tbh If I'm spending that amount on the tank and whatever upgrades I'm doing 20points isn't that bad for 6 strength 5 shots kill a marine or two and you've Got your points back, I would only really consider this with the demolisher because of the range, would hate to get popped by something before I even got into range with the Cannon..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah I would defiantly take the lascannon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993344.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4993344.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
Shadows7x wrote:
Tbh If I'm spending that amount on the tank and whatever upgrades I'm doing 20points isn't that bad for 6 strength 5 shots kill a marine or two and you've Got your points back, I would only really consider this with the demolisher because of the range, would hate to get popped by something before I even got into range with the Cannon..


I would just like to raise a couple of points from observations/math I have made.
1. With the maximum distance between deployment zones being 24 inches, I've rarely seen a Vindicator (which has the same gun as a demolisher) not be able to fire on T1 if it is able to fire at all. Admittedly the Vindicator does have the advantage of a Siege Sled allowing it to ignore terrain, meaning that it can deploy behind cover if they are going second and still get in range, but generally speaking you will, at the most, have 1 turn before you start firing the Demolisher Cannon.
2. With Snap-Fired 6 Heavy Bolter shots you have a 22.222% chance of killing 1 Space Marine, or in other terms, you will about 1.1 space marines for every 5 turns you are snap firing your heavy bolters. While it is true that against marines you will statistically make your points back over 6 turns if you snap fire your HB's every turn (you will kill an average of 1.32 marines over 6 turns worth 21.12 points on average), the question is whether or not those 20 points are better spent elsewhere than on something that MIGHT kill 2 marines a game.
3. Additionally, if you assume that you fire your HB's regularly during the first game turn (before you get into demolisher range) you will kill 1.78 Marines over the course of 6 turns (or 28.48 points), assuming you are able to fire at a target every turn. On the first turn you will kill 2/3rds of a marine, and you will kill 1/9th of a marine a turn every other turn.

Overall, while the math says you could do worse things with your 20 points (assuming the tank survives), the returns that you are getting on your investment are extremely low. So if you desperately need to fill the last 20 points of your list, I would say go for it, but if not you might be better off investing in something else, or even seeing if there are other upgrades you can skim off of other units to buy something new entirely. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994241.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994241.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! LRBTs and never looked back.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994296.page GMT Re:Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994327.page GMT Imperial Guard Commanders - I need your advice!
RegalPhantom wrote:
Shadows7x wrote:
Tbh If I'm spending that amount on the tank and whatever upgrades I'm doing 20points isn't that bad for 6 strength 5 shots kill a marine or two and you've Got your points back, I would only really consider this with the demolisher because of the range, would hate to get popped by something before I even got into range with the Cannon..


I would just like to raise a couple of points from observations/math I have made.
1. With the maximum distance between deployment zones being 24 inches, I've rarely seen a Vindicator (which has the same gun as a demolisher) not be able to fire on T1 if it is able to fire at all. Admittedly the Vindicator does have the advantage of a Siege Sled allowing it to ignore terrain, meaning that it can deploy behind cover if they are going second and still get in range, but generally speaking you will, at the most, have 1 turn before you start firing the Demolisher Cannon.
2. With Snap-Fired 6 Heavy Bolter shots you have a 22.222% chance of killing 1 Space Marine, or in other terms, you will about 1.1 space marines for every 5 turns you are snap firing your heavy bolters. While it is true that against marines you will statistically make your points back over 6 turns if you snap fire your HB's every turn (you will kill an average of 1.32 marines over 6 turns worth 21.12 points on average), the question is whether or not those 20 points are better spent elsewhere than on something that MIGHT kill 2 marines a game.
3. Additionally, if you assume that you fire your HB's regularly during the first game turn (before you get into demolisher range) you will kill 1.78 Marines over the course of 6 turns (or 28.48 points), assuming you are able to fire at a target every turn. On the first turn you will kill 2/3rds of a marine, and you will kill 1/9th of a marine a turn every other turn.

Overall, while the math says you could do worse things with your 20 points (assuming the tank survives), the returns that you are getting on your investment are extremely low. So if you desperately need to fill the last 20 points of your list, I would say go for it, but if not you might be better off investing in something else, or even seeing if there are other upgrades you can skim off of other units to buy something new entirely.


I think the guy doesn't know that you have to snap fire them, so he's speaking for their killyness at full-firing capability.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/487893/4994527.page GMT