<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "cultists close combat or ranged?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net cultists close combat or ranged?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4966551.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4966551.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
The main weakness is that Cultists have really low Ld. That means that even if they are making their points in combat manyfold due to sheer number of attacks, they are still likely to run and get sweeped if they lose more men than the opponent, which they generally do.

So if you killed 2 terminators and lost 4 cultists, you are still 50% likely to run away. It's silly, but true.

Hence, you really need a Chaos Lord or Dark Apostole to give them, Fearless or high Ld. Once they do get that, a mob of 35 cultsts with 3 flames and marks of Khorne are actuallly fairly terrifying, for quite a small price.

So yeah, generally you want your Cultists in the back of the board with autoguns and heavy stubbers, being dificult to put down, rather than risk flamers. They might not be as good as the IG, but they do really well as a cheap scoring unit that's hard to kill.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4966947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4966947.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
i figured having a unit of 20+ would create a nice big annoying unit which costs hardly any points but can hold an objective if needed.

from what you have said for that purpose it should be pistols and flamers plus mark of khorne

thanks for the info, its certainly food for thought]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967116.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967116.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
- While a CCW blob of them are a option, the CSM codex is filled will so many CC options that they dont really stand up to it even if your break it down in points.

- So it can become a case of what will the cultists perform better against then all the other choices I have? The answer? TH-Terminiators, and any CC unit that is either heavily 2+ or sporting ap2 weaponry.

- If you are planning on a melee blob another option is take Typus for Plague Zombies. They get fearless, FNP, and slow and purposeful. However they cannot purchase any upgrades or fire there guns.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967695.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
so you think a ranged combo would be better? run up to enemy or grab objective and overwatch anything that tries to assult, and come in with a better close combat unit later to finish the enemy off?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967765.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged? ccw/pistol. That's 60 attacks, and while I was hitting on 4s and wounding on 5s, the sheer number of attacks was enough to actually allow me to win the combat that round (I think I dealt 3 wounds with them when all was said and done).

My experience with the auto gun has been less than stellar. str 3 ap - is all but useless against marines, and it has pretty limited range. If you're able to shoot at them, they're able to shoot at you, and they're gonna win that firefight. Even if you have tons of guys, it's not gonna take a lot to force a leadership test, and while there's no negative modifiers associated with it, you still only have 7 leadership. You'll also presumably be fairly close to the edge of the board if you're taking them to hold back field objectives, so if you do fail that leadership test, there is a very real chance that they'll be fleeing of the table edge.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4967861.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968301.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
as i previously mentioned, my original thought was to put a dark apostle in the unit to stop them from running so i guess that pidgeonholes them for combat, it would also be more characteristic of the word bearers

ideally they wouldnt be assulting on their own, just taking the brunt of the attack and allowing assult specialists to charge in without getting shot at on the way in

i get what you say about losing a straight firefight, the heavy stubber is a little feeble, not worth saying still for a turn to shoot with flamers are probably better all round]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968344.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968344.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
if you just want chaff to run around and grab objectives keep them cheap, ccw and pistol

if they are going to hare a fearless character with them, ccw and pistol

if you want them to do something, take the rifles, but then you are paying 25% more points than guard for troops that are worse than guard. Ally in IG]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968405.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968405.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
maybe in a large army a second, shooty unit may be an option, but i could always convert those from cadians/catachan models

OR take an allied contingent of imperial guard

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4968955.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
If used right the LR should prevent that large mob from being victims of Overwatch, and the Champion or Typhus can take up challenges to protect you're warlord.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4969645.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4969645.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? FNP ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4969928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4969928.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? SMs, which generally means 3.33 dead marines. Closer to 4 with heavy Stubbers. That is pretty good for a throaway unit. Even at long range, you are killing 2.

You get 2-3 more kills if you assault with ALL your cultists, AND with the shooting at assault. Around 2-3 more from flamers.

So yeah, 30 cultists can potentially kill a unit of SM on the charge, or put a serious dent on nearby marines. With Mark of Khorne assault cultists, you most definitely kill the marine unit, and probably make a great anti terminator unit too. The problem is, if you DONT kill them on the charge, you expect to kill 3, and they expect to kill more than that. so they might rout you with like 1-2 marines remaining.

With a duelist lord, cultist are actually amazing melee units, since they make such great bodyguards due to the 35 wounds and fearless, while giving you masses of attacks, which means they are good at taking down elites like terminators. We are talking potentially 140 Str 4 attacks on a charge! And that's WITHOUT the 32 autopistol shots on the way in, and the 3 flamers! For 235 points. With 35 wounds. That's not bad at all. It will take ages for people to shoot all these off, and you don't particularly care about it either. You are pretty much guaranteed to get your lord into melee.

Basically, with mark of Khorne, you have your very own Ork Boyz with slightly worse melee, but much better shooting due to the 3 flamers.

The main issue is, like others have said, is that the Lord NEEDS to survive, so he needs to be an umber killy duelst, like a Khorne Lord with Axe of Blinding Fury, or Lucious/Kharn/Slaneesh Lord. Ironically enough, a Dark Apostle does not work very well in such a unit, due to the powermaul not being a good dueling weapon.

If you ARE set on running a Dark Apostle, you need to have him close but in a different squad for the Ld 10 6" bubble. Possibly on a squad of shooty cultists, following two squads of assault cultists. He's clearly meant to lead a cultist horde army from the back, not doing duels himself.

Also Ironically enough, I dont think Typhus's zombies are as good at all. As mentioned, they do make good tarpits, but frankly with slow and purposeful they dont really make good bodyguards, and with 1 CCW they make terrible melee units as well. And ofcourse, they dont really work with everybody's favorite Epidermus+Typhus's ally list.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4970228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4970228.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4970463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4970463.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? meq list. The amount of shots in the air is just dumb. let me break it down. 35 cultists vs ig. 70 shots. 35 hits. 17 wounds. 11 kils.
vs marines 35 hits 12 wounds 4 kills.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4971053.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4971053.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged?
I was thinking Melee with 3x flamers and MoK
Possibly have Abaddon attached for Fearless

Or

Have them all with Autoguns and either no mark or MoN
With this I would bring Dark Apostle or Ahriman for some ranged or sorcery

A quest I have though for going melee, if you have a cultist champion and an HQ attached, can you decide on which one does the challenges or does it have to be the HQ?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972415.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972415.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? CC options than them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972430.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972628.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged?
 Solomongrundy wrote:


A quest I have though for going melee, if you have a cultist champion and an HQ attached, can you decide on which one does the challenges or does it have to be the HQ?


according to the codex you get to choose who accepts any challenge

really it all comes down to, are the overwatch shots + ranged attacks better than the extra attacks and less points

i dont think you can realistically expect to charge all the time, also i imagine it would be hard to get all 35 attacking in close combat, however a stinging round of overwatch might reduce the impact of any charge

however, having never fielded them or played 40k since 4th edition i'm not really sure, hence starting the thread, i'm really interested to hear how others have actually used this unit

i'm sure plenty of people have got dark vengance and therefore have the cultist models]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972758.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972758.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged?

So I can do 2 squads of 35 and 30

So I think I may just go ranged with 35x cultists, all autoguns and 3 Heavy Stubbers
See what happens

Not sure if I am going to take any Lord or anything with them, probably not]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972794.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
35 Shooty cultists make for deceptively amazing denial units. The enemy has to commit a lot of firepower to them if you can get them into a good cover save. (BTW 70 overwatch shots = lol)

35 CC mok cultists relies more on your enemy underestimating them, They can actually overwhelm meqs fast but they wont benefit from all the coversaves 6th ed has to offer and thus will evaporate much quicker with or without a solid leader.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972882.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972882.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged?
 muleyyy wrote:
 Solomongrundy wrote:


A quest I have though for going melee, if you have a cultist champion and an HQ attached, can you decide on which one does the challenges or does it have to be the HQ?


according to the codex you get to choose who accepts any challenge


but you also must issue challanges, so if you are in combat you will never be in the position of getting to accepting challenges unless you are playing another chaos player

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972993.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4972993.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973016.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973016.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
If you're holding objectives though, definitely don't go ccw.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973026.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973026.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
 Solomongrundy wrote:
That's true since I must issue challenges my opponent is forced to accept who I choose on his side to challenge whichever character I want on my side.


no you are at a disadvantage, if you have 2 characters and so does he, you have to choose which one goes into the challenge first. so if you have a cultist champ and a lord with just a 3+ and he has a chump sergeant with a maul and a captain with a 2+ and a sword you cant wait. you must declare first, so he can either pair his chump sergeant against your cultist or his captain against your lord, depending on which you pick. You cannot wait for him to challenge and put your lord against his sergeant or your cultist against his lord. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973222.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4973792.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
use just cultists to fulfill your troop choice obligations, save for one squad of marines

then take havocs instead of regular marine squads - they cost the same per model but can take twice as many heavy or special weapons with no restrictions on unit size

so essentially in a 1k (small) battle you would have 2x20 man cultist units, sling the hq in one, then take a nice big unit of marines and put them in a rhino with dirge casters
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4974552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4974552.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
 Exergy wrote:
 Solomongrundy wrote:
That's true since I must issue challenges my opponent is forced to accept who I choose on his side to challenge whichever character I want on my side.


no you are at a disadvantage, if you have 2 characters and so does he, you have to choose which one goes into the challenge first. so if you have a cultist champ and a lord with just a 3+ and he has a chump sergeant with a maul and a captain with a 2+ and a sword you cant wait. you must declare first, so he can either pair his chump sergeant against your cultist or his captain against your lord, depending on which you pick. You cannot wait for him to challenge and put your lord against his sergeant or your cultist against his lord.


Page 64 of the 6th Ed rule book says that only one challenge can be issued per close combat, so with that I don't think that more than 1 character can do a challenge if they are in the same unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975055.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975055.page GMT Re:cultists close combat or ranged? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975109.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975109.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
 muleyyy wrote:
ok so how about this for an idea;

use just cultists to fulfill your troop choice obligations, save for one squad of marines

then take havocs instead of regular marine squads - they cost the same per model but can take twice as many heavy or special weapons with no restrictions on unit size

so essentially in a 1k (small) battle you would have 2x20 man cultist units, sling the hq in one, then take a nice big unit of marines and put them in a rhino with dirge casters


Like you say, okay for a small battle but anything larger and the force will suffer from the heavy support slots being filled with tactical equivalent marines.

I tend to get a bit into the battle and frequently fail to leave a troop choice sat on objectives in my own half. So I'm pondering taking a rhino for my havoc marines and then filling it with 10 cultists with either a flamer and two rifles or a heavy stubber and a single rifle(depending on the force I am facing) and an additional combi bolter on the rhino. Then basically sitting it near the objective in my deployment zone (somewhere to give the rhino a cover save) and using it as a gun platfrom until one of the later turns and then piling out onto the objective. I'm hoping that by keeping a havoc of a combi-plas/melta off the rhino people will not see it as a threat and let me merrily pump out shots each turn. Also pondering putting spikey bits onto it to give me the hits if I chose to tank shock anything which turns up to kill the cultists once they are on the objective. If a flyer shows its rear armour I get the four TL bolter shots to try and glance it.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975183.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975183.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged? IG allies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975194.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975194.page GMT cultists close combat or ranged?
20 Cultists with autoguns and 2 heavy stubbers comes in at nearly 30 points cheaper than a naked 10 man marine squad.

i cant see myself using marks on them thoguh as that kind of defeats the object of keeping them cheap.
That'll do nicely.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/488220/4975350.page GMT