<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
I've always enjoyed the fluff behind the Triarch Praetorians, and their models. There is also a weapon in the Necron codex, that I want to like but would never take because it's just not that effective, The Gauntlet of fire. So this is a (Fun) Exercise in combining the two! I'll start with the fluff behind them, and then to their Statline/Special rules.


In the times of Civil War, before the Bio-transference, Triarch Praetorians ensured that the Dynasties and their leadership followed the Necron Codes of battle. Many obstinate Lords however, would sometimes refuse, much to the Chagrin of the Praetorians. If the Triarch deemed it so, the Triarch's enforcers were summoned, to the forefront. These enforcers, known as Triarch Centurions, were ruthless. They themselves, in an ironic twist, were not bound by Codes of battle. Thus, when they were unleashed, they burned the offenders into naught by ash. Nothing but complete eradication would serve their purpose. These Dynasties were made powerful examples, and continued to serve as a deterrent for any that would dare defy the Triarch. During the War in Heaven, the Triarch Centurions were outfitted with the best bodies, and weaponry. Armed with two dreaded Gauntlets of fire, they left a trail of burning corpses in their wake, earning them a fearful reputation among the Old ones and their allies. Awakened now, from their long slumber Triarch Centurions find themselves in a galaxy full war, a delightful playground, where they can ply their trade to the insufferable races that stand in the way of Triarch, or the glory of the Necron Dynasties.


WS BS S T W I A SV
4 4 5 5 1 2 3 3+



Composition
5 Triarch Centurions. Unit Type (Infantry)

Wargear 2 Gauntlets of Fire
Special Rules: Reanimation Protocols, Searing Destroyer.

Searing Destroyer-
In addition to following the standard rules for Gauntlets of fire, (Rerolling failed to hit, and failed to wound rolls, +1 attack for two CCW weapons) Triarch Centurions are allowed to fire both gauntlets in the shooting phase, and during Overwatch. In addition, they may also choose to combine the flames of both Gauntlets, into a single powerful cascading blast. If this is method is chosen, Each model only fires one template, and uses the following profile:

S3 AP3, Template, Torrent, Heavy 1.

This profile may be used in Overwatch as well. All models in the unit must use the same profile.

Cost: 40 PPM. May take an up to an additional 5 Triarch Centurions for 40 PPM
Upgrades- The Unit May purchase Sempiternal Weaves for +5 PPM. (May not be enough, but at +10 we're talking 50 points for a model with a single wound, and no invul save. Seems a bit to much then)
May take a Night Scythe as a Dedicated Transport
Royal Court Members may be attached.

So, what do ya'll think? OP? UP? Just right?



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057725.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. AP 3 torrent flamers (and in overwatch!) might be too powerful. Especially since you can take 10 of them... in a Night Scythe.... Night scythe flies in 24" you get out 6" and wipe out an entire squad of marines (more if there are a few squads bunched together).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057792.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
jms40k wrote:
AP 3 torrent flamers (and in overwatch!) might be too powerful. Especially since you can take 10 of them... in a Night Scythe.... Night scythe flies in 24" you get out 6" and wipe out an entire squad of marines (more if there are a few squads bunched together).


You could also do the same thing with a Squad of Deathmarks and a Harbinger of Despair though, for cheaper. Wiping out a marine squad, even in cover, isn't that difficult.

I do Agree, it's a powerful tool, but you are paying 200 minimum for it, 300 if you include the Night Scythe.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057823.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
10-man deathmarks, 20 shots:
20*(2/3) ~= 14 hits (I'm rounding up to give you the benefit of the doubt here).
14*(5/6) = 12 wounds, 3 rend (again rounding up at all times).

3 dead marines, 9 armour saves
9 * (1/3) = 3...

6 dead marines, always rounding up.

Now lets say you do the same with the torrent flamers. They are torrent, so no need to worry about getting in each others way:

10 Triarch Praetorians:
Let's say you position the template to get 5 hits a piece. That's not unheard of for a normal flame template hitting a squad of 10, and it is often much higher.

50 hits
50 * (1/2) = 25

25 dead marines.

4x the number of MEQ killing wounds for just over 2x the point cost.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057845.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057845.page GMT Re:Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057862.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057866.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057866.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
It recommend an improved statline personally. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057880.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057880.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
jms40k wrote:
Except you have to roll to hit on those and they aren't automatically AP2... So, let's say you mark the unit:

10-man deathmarks, 20 shots:
20*(2/3) ~= 14 hits (I'm rounding up to give you the benefit of the doubt here).
14*(5/6) = 12 wounds, 3 rend (again rounding up at all times).

3 dead marines, 9 armour saves
9 * (1/3) = 3...

6 dead marines, always rounding up.

Now lets say you do the same with the torrent flamers. They are torrent, so no need to worry about getting in each others way:

10 Triarch Praetorians:
Let's say you position the template to get 5 hits a piece. That's not unheard of for a normal flame template hitting a squad of 10, and it is often much higher.

60 hits
60 * (1/2) = 30

30 dead marines.

5x the number of MEQ killing wounds for just over 2x the point cost.


Alright, for one, you didn't include the Harbinger of Despair with his Stave in the math, but it still illustrates my point.

Secondly, I think we need to be realistic here. You're taking 10 Triarch Centurions, which by itself, is 400 points, 500 if you take a Night Scythe. So, 1/4th of your points in a 2000 point list.

While your math serves to show the potential amount of wounds it can do, it is almost completely negligible, because it's not all realistic to the amount of damage it would actually do in a game. They can only target a single squad at a time, and while they may deal a massive number of wounds to it, it's still a single squad.


Also, your math compares favorably to the Centurions, because you used them in an example of what they're supposed to do, kill MEQ. If you were to compare the results of say the Deathmarks shooting with a Harbinger of Despair, VS the Centurions to say a TMC, then the Deathmarks would come out on top.


My point (Which still stands) Is that you can wipe out a squad of MEQ fairly easily. You can do with Deathmarks, Destroyers, and numerous other things in the Necron codex.



EDIT: Does everyone really believe the Torrent and Improved profile to be too strong? In my playtesting of it, I never saw it as OP, and neither did my opponents.

If that's really the case then I'll work out a method of toning it down...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057935.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5057935.page GMT Re:Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. OP.

You have a squad of Necrons that can reroll to hit/to wound and with +1 attack, totalling out to 3 attacks, which they also can use either two flamer templates or a single S4 AP3 Torrent that can wipe out anything from Orks and Gaunts to Space Marines from a distance, without any cover or armour saves. Plus, this can be used in overwatch? A Basic squad will dish out 10D3 S4 AP5 or 5D3 S4 AP3 Wall of Death hits in Overwatch? This is all before the fight starts, in which their 3 attacks can reroll hits and wounds. They also reanimate on a 5+(4+ with orb) and can be dropped in by the best flyer transport in the game.

Thats ridiculous for the points cost, especially when you give them the option of having a 2+ save for 5-10 points.

I'd make them 55ppm if the gauntlet torrent is assault and can be used in Overwatch, 40ppm if the gauntlet torrent is heavy and cannot be used in Overwatch. Because for them to be able to drop in and burn everything to gak like that in the same turn is ridiculous.

Necrons are beastmode enough without giving them something like that.

Whats next, Wraiths with doomsday cannons and Lychguard with death rays?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058231.page GMT Re:Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
 Benn Bloodmane wrote:
Honestly, when i read this, i shouted damn thats OP.

You have a squad of Necrons that can reroll to hit/to wound and with +1 attack, totalling out to 3 attacks, which they also can use either two flamer templates or a single S4 AP3 Torrent that can wipe out anything from Orks and Gaunts to Space Marines from a distance, without any cover or armour saves. Plus, this can be used in overwatch? A Basic squad will dish out 10D3 S4 AP5 or 5D3 S4 AP3 Wall of Death hits in Overwatch? This is all before the fight starts, in which their 3 attacks can reroll hits and wounds. They also reanimate on a 5+(4+ with orb) and can be dropped in by the best flyer transport in the game.

Thats ridiculous for the points cost, especially when you give them the option of having a 2+ save for 5-10 points.

I'd make them 55ppm if the gauntlet torrent is assault and can be used in Overwatch, 40ppm if the gauntlet torrent is heavy and cannot be used in Overwatch. Because for them to be able to drop in and burn everything to gak like that in the same turn is ridiculous.

Necrons are beastmode enough without giving them something like that.

Whats next, Wraiths with doomsday cannons and Lychguard with death rays?


The suggestions are appreciated, but the snarky remarks are not.


Anyway, I've adjusted the torrent profile, to make it S3 AP3 Heavy 1. I feel that's a pretty significant nerf to it Everyone else Agree?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058250.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058250.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058385.page GMT Re:Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. OP. Would I enjoy playing against it? No but I play nids mainly so I have a personal hatred against template weapons
Ignoring my bias, I think it works very well and could fit with the current codex. Nice Job ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5058401.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. AP 3 that makes it uber nasty and will have the Marine players calling foul.

I figure you should go one of these two ways with it.

Template / 4 / 5 / Assault or Heavy 1, Torrent

Template / 5 or 6 / 3 / Assault 1

The long range flamer that bypasses armour is a beast any which way, trust me, I play against them a lot. It's bad enough facing a weapon that ignores your armour and your cover at the same time, but that extra 12 inches of range and optimum orientation is crazy. There is no way one should have to face an entire unit of that. Especially if they are rerolling wounds. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059379.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
Jefffar wrote:
If the torrent is retooling wounds, the Strenght nerf won't be a big deal until you hit 2. It's the AP 3 that makes it uber nasty and will have the Marine players calling foul.

I figure you should go one of these two ways with it.

Template / 4 / 5 / Assault or Heavy 1, Torrent

Template / 5 or 6 / 3 / Assault 1

The long range flamer that bypasses armour is a beast any which way, trust me, I play against them a lot. It's bad enough facing a weapon that ignores your armour and your cover at the same time, but that extra 12 inches of range and optimum orientation is crazy. There is no way one should have to face an entire unit of that. Especially if they are rerolling wounds.


The Reroll to hits and wounds is only in Close combat. I figured the Strength nerf, and the Heavy nerf hit it pretty hard. It can't just deploy Via Night Scythe now, drop the torrent on marines in cover.

I'm consdiring perhaps making the Torrent a one time thing though, and removing the heavy part of it. There are still a couple of ways to go about it though.

Thank you all for the continued feedback!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059819.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions.
I'd pay 200 points for 5 jump troops with normal flamers.
Quick enough to line up good flamer shoots, and decent in melee (S5 HoW, followed by 20 S5 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059834.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5059834.page GMT Proposed new Necron Unit: Triarch Centurions. SoB seraphim only get 4 handflamers in a squad, and they obliterate everything, and theyre only str3)
twenty flamer templates going off (if you manage to position well) will absolutly DESTROY any infantry unit in the game. No contest. You'll be rolling like two hundred wounds. Hell, an IG platoon command squad with 4 flamers will cripple pretty much any non-TEQ unit no problem, just to give you an idea. With 4 flamers you can easily kill 4 or 5 marines, or 20 or so GEQ.
TWENTY flamers in one unit is pretty ludicrous.

Also maybe cap the squad at 5 members.

I like the idea of the torrent mode though, and I think the str3 and heavy are enough of a limiter to make them not overpowered.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5061109.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/493513/5061109.page GMT