Latest posts for the thread "1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed"

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

I tried my hand at painting a Black Templar space marine and became interested in fielding a full army. I'm currently working on a mech Tau force, so the Templar's focus on CC is a little new to me. Since they're listed as "Allies of Convenience", I even thought about fielding a combined force - it would offer a nice mix of shooting and CC, plus both armies lack psykers so fluff-wise they could be allied for a witch hunt.

I'm attempting to come up with a simple 1000 point list as a starting point, but I'd appreciate some feedback from more experienced players. This is what I have so far:

HQ

1 Castellan with Terminator Honours and twin lighting claws - 135 pts
1 Reclusiarch with Crozius Arcanum and bolt pistol - 96 pts
8 Initiates (Command Squad) with bolt pistol/chainsword - 128 pts

Emperor's Champion with "Accept any challenge, no matter the odds" - 140 pts

Transport

Land Raider Crusader - 265 pts

Troops

4 Initiates with bolt pistol/chainsword, 1 Initiate with plasma cannon, 2 Neophytes with bolt pistol/sword - 120 pts

4 Initiates with bolt pistol/chainsword, 1 Initiate with plasma cannon, 2 Neophytes with bolt pistol/sword - 120 pts

Total = 1004 pts

+ The Castellan, Reclusiarch and Command Squad count as one HQ choice, correct? I wasn't sure if I read that right.

+ The Emperor's Champion is mandatory at +750 points. He can join one of the troops, just not the command squad, correct?

+ My plan was to have the HQ in the Land Raider initially. It offers protection as well as firepower, plus most of the stuff I read online said that Black Templars should include one. I wasn't sure though that at 1000 points it wouldn't be better to take 3 smaller transports at 50 points each and increase the amount of troops.

+ The troops have plasma cannons because I wasn't sure if a missile launcher or meltagun would be better. Since they are geared for CC, I assume they don't want to be carrying flamers.

I also wasn't sure if a power fist counts as a power weapon when given options, or if it must specify that a power fist may be taken (like when it says you can pick from the wargear). Power fists don't benefit from the 2 CC weapon bonus though, correct?

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

Without a response, I scoured the internet for answers...and found I was wrong about a lot of things. This is my revised list:

HQ:
Emperor's Champion with "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch" - 110 pts

Troops:
5 Initiates, Lascannon/Plasma Gun in Rhino with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers - 159 pts
5 Initiates, Lascannon/Plasma Gun in Rhino with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers - 159 pts

Elite:
5 Sword Brethren Terminators, 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, Tank Hunters - 265 pts

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70 pts
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70 pts

Heavy Support:
Vindicator with Extra Armour, Power of the Machine Spirit, Smoke Launchers - 163 pts

Total: 996 pts

I went into this thinking that I'd be building a CC army and from what I've read it seems you're better off shooting.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Deuce11 — GMT

Maybe drop the Vindi for a third Troop squad as you have them outfitted?

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

I wasn't sure if the vindicator would be overkill or not, considering I have the 2 typhoons and the 2 cyclones on the terminators. The extra troop makes sense - I haven't played as Space Marines of any type before, so I'm not sure how they fare even packed in a Rhino. Does anyone know what the survival rate is like? Maybe keeping the vindicator is good, because it presents a greater threat and might soak up some fire that otherwise would be aimed at the marines?

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

ShottyScotty — GMT

Sadly, the Champion cant be the Warlord, so a secondary HQ is mandatory again. Common picks are Chaplains for reroll misses, but I still like Marshals for Leadership 10.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Vindicator is great. My friend got his 1st company Imperial fist ruined by a CSM vindi. So a vindi with PotMS sure is pricey, but so so glorious. Rhinos are good for your shooty needs, but are really really pricey. They are bad for assault builds though.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Deuce11 — GMT

Proxy a rhino chassi as the vindi and if you find you're losing games based on missions then try the extra troop. I can see it going either way at 1000 points. Nice list though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShottyScotty wrote:
Sadly, the Champion cant be the Warlord, so a secondary HQ is mandatory again. Common picks are Chaplains for reroll misses, but I still like Marshals for Leadership 10.

At 1000 points? I thought either (1) the EC COULD be the HQ choice at 1000 pts or less, or (2) an EC is not mandatory at 1000 points or less.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

ShottyScotty — GMT

PS, BT are rumoured to get a CC buff when they are updated (supposedly summer by White Dwarf). Rumour has it they get Zealot (hatred everything and fearless) so Chaplains will again be useless just like 5th Ed

Automatically Appended Next Post:
EC is mandatory at 750 and over. And eratta dictates that the Champ cant ever be warlord.

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

It's funny, I looked through the Black Templar F.A.Q. on the GS website, but I see they have a seperate 6th Edition Update. Sure enough, in the Errata it reads, "Q. Can the Emperor's Champion be my warlord? (p31) A. No. This will mean you will need to include a second HQ choice to be your warlord." Most of the lists I've seen online have the EC as the warlord, though - I guess they're old lists.

So, here is my revision:

HQ:
Castellan with Storm Bolter - 70 pts
Emperor's Champion with "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch" - 110 pts

Troops:
5 Initiates, Lascannon/Plasma Gun in Rhino with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers - 159 pts
5 Initiates, Lascannon/Plasma Gun in Rhino with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers - 159 pts

Elite:
5 Sword Brethren Terminators, 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, Tank Hunters - 265 pts

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70 pts

Heavy Support:
Vindicator with Extra Armour, Power of the Machine Spirit, Smoke Launchers - 163 pts

Total: 996 pts

I just swapped out a Land Speeder for the Castellan. The extra 20 pts for the LD 10 didn't seem worth it if my marines are going to be shooting from the rhinos. I figure the EC can ride with one troop and the Castellan with the other.

I gave the Castellan a Storm Bolter because it was 5pts and I figured I'd make him shooty if he's in a shooty squad, but I noticed something - it's listed as a 2-handed weapon in the codex, which I assume means he can't carry a second weapon. Looking around online though, I see a lot of models posed with the Storm Bolter and a Power Weapon.. Is this allowed, or do people just do this because the figure holds the Storm Bolter with one hand and they don't feel like leaving the other empty?

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

goodriddans2 — GMT

I dont think you have enough troops and to manny upgrades, your 5 man squad costs almost the same as a normal 10 man squad and i would prefer the 10 man squad

Also i would probably prefer a dev squad over the vindicator

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Coomakazie — GMT

You need more troops, black templars are more more of a combat army and are in need of an update.

It would be best to take a squad of 10 iniates with bp cc and stick a power weapon or fist in there, we don't have sergeants so they cant challenge the guy with the weapon so it is not wasted.

The ec is amazing at killing the enemies troops, with rage he has 5 attacks on the charge which your easily doing 4 wounds.

The captain can take another weapon with the storm bolter, best the give him a pistol for that extra attack.

A vindicator is prob best but take machine spirit as we can still do that, you have a 36 inch demolisher cannon then.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Deuce11 — GMT

The reality is, at the moment, BTs are not good at CC and CC is weak in 6th Ed as is. So for these reasons I would not focus on building a CC oriented army that has an outdated codex in a shooty environment. Talk about an uphill battle!

Your troops should be in rhinos with lascannons and plasma guns and as cheap as possible beyond that. They sit and they shoot. That is all.

The terminators are still generally good. Take them to maximize cyclone MLs and take tank hunters.

Land speeder tornados are also a great deal in this rule set. Spam them to great effect.

That is really all she wrote for this codex until new rules are released.

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

BTNeophyte — GMT

To address some of the statements in your original post, the marshal/chappy/command squad are one HQ choice if they're all part of the same command squad. Also, the emperor's champion can join squads, but NOT command squads

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

See, I initially thought that the Templars were a CC army as well, but everything I've read seems to match up with what Deuce11 said. That might actually work to my advantage if my opponent thinks that I'm going to be charging in to melee when I'm actually shooting.

Thanks for all the feedback, I really appreciate it.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

ShottyScotty — GMT

Try to take advantage of Aegis Defense Lines. Especially if you are kitting the castellan with just a storm bolter. People will argue RAW, and will say you will need a shooting weapon to use the gun mount. One of the lines says the model forgoes shooting with their equipped gun and use the emplacement. But for shooty builds, very common to ditch the castellan behind a defense line.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, provides a great cover save to Typhoons. is there any specific reason you want to stay at 1000? 1500 is a good starting place for shooty templar builds.Typhoons add up

Re:1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

fenshysa — GMT

I used 1000 as a starting point, with my plan being to build on it over time. If I buy through one of the online discount stores then the last list I posted should cost me about $230, so money is also a factor. That's partially why I chose to stick with the vindicator rather than buy another troop/rhino - it's cheaper financially. The other part is that if they do change the rules and the Templars become a CC army, then I've only invested in 10 shooty marines.

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Grimaldus99 — GMT

goodriddans2 wrote:
I dont think you have enough troops and to manny upgrades, your 5 man squad costs almost the same as a normal 10 man squad and i would prefer the 10 man squad

Also i would probably prefer a dev squad over the vindicator

No Dev squads for BT players ><

Closest thing is a 5 man crusader squad with 1x heavy weapon (1x special optional )

Plus (don't have my codex nearby) I think rhinos are 50 pts base compared to other SM 30. IIRC...

1000 pt Black Templars - Advice Needed

Mr.Omega — GMT

Deuce11 wrote:
The reality is, at the moment, BTs are not good at CC and CC is weak in 6th Ed as is. So for these reasons I would not focus on building a CC oriented army that has an outdated codex in a shooty environment. Talk about an uphill battle!

Your troops should be in rhinos with lascannons and plasma guns and as cheap as possible beyond that. They sit and they shoot. That is all.

The terminators are still generally good. Take them to maximize cyclone MLs and take tank hunters.

Land speeder tornados are also a great deal in this rule set. Spam them to great effect.

That is really all she wrote for this codex until new rules are released.

Yeah except Las/Plas is dead (two five man scoring units that need to stay still to be even mediocre? at 1000 points? that automatically move D6 if you kill even one of them? don't even bother) and Codexark Angels has arrived to show just how old Templars are. They get Land Speeders just as cheap as ours now, Terminators that re-roll to hit when they deepstrike, get plasmacannons for 15 points and have splitfire (did I mention they can mix and match assault/ranged weapons and can be troops choices?), vs our Terminators that are only good if they've got CML's and Tankhunters, and have to footslog to function, and thus take large amounts plasma and AP2 fire with only 5+ cover saves to rely on . The leaked schedule that starts:

DA/more hobbit stuff-Flyer wave-

has proven right so far, and there's no BT in that list at all. According to it the only other Codex's this year are Eldar and Tau, so we're going to be waiting at least another year for a Codex. I'm by no means optimistic and right now the Codex is down in the dumps. Shooting armies are seriously flawed if not just as hopeless as CC armies, and with every passing new Codex BT becomes more obselete and useless. You can't argue agaisnt the fact its practically lifeless right now, the whole idea of crusading across a battlefield and smiting your enemy is just a pure fantasy. If you don't take and abuse the hell out of CML Termies your army can be done and interpreted better by another with ease and for cheaper, usually with a score of advantages.

So as to help you with your list- buy another Marine Codex, use its rules, wait for C:BT if it ever comes. You'll feel far better for it.