Latest posts for the thread "How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?"

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Doorman — GMT

I've always imagined that when Marines defect to chaos it is because their leaders have become corrupted, and soon they follow after.

(So large scale heresy)

Whereas it is possible, for a single marine to decide for himself "Screw the emperor, I wanna be a noise marine"

In order words, how easy/hard is it for a marine to change sides?

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

blood reaper — GMT

It's generally due to the death of allies, doubt of leadership, need to save others or a desperation to gain more power to do what is needed. Rarely is it simple, but most of the time it's simply down to a fault in personality.

One of the best examples would be from Dawn of War 2 Chaos Rising;

Spoiler:

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Backspacehacker — GMT

Same reason jedis went to the dark side, power. Although they are space maines they are still humans and all humans want power some are more humble and know their place l, others are head strong and think they are better and could do a better job. If you dont wan to belive that *thows glitter into the air* chaos magic

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Lynata — GMT

Direct corruption could be another reason - as in, you stand in front of a daemon and it tries to assault you psychically. This can be as subtle as the creature just plucking on a few strings and seemingly trying to "discuss" topics that evoke a strong reaction, or it can be a direct assault. Or a mix of the two.

Personality flaws are important, as they provide anchors a daemon or even just another corrupted human being may exploit, trying to appeal to something within the Marine's mind and convincing him of how Chaos is "the better way". Pride, envy, wrath are all emotions still running strong in many Chapters' cultures and traditions, often being embraced rather than subdued. In the end, even the Space Marines are still shockingly human on some level.

As inspiration, something from the Black Library:

"The girl I can understand. Her mind is most infertile. What has she ever questioned? They teach her and she believes." The corners of the chasm turned upwards. The thing was smiling. "But you, my man. You are different, are you not? You can travel across the stars - but you do not know what lies between them. I could show you, my boy. I could show you why your omnipotent Emperor chooses to let his Imperium of toy soldiers be eroded by Chaos."

Parmenides's immense face rose up in a vast static tidal wave that surrounded them like an amphitheatre of flesh. He gazed down on them from above, drowning them in his blank gaze. Sister Aescarion took an involuntary step back, then held firm. Sergeant Castus continued merely to gaze upon the corrupt being, his eyes steely, jaw set in righteous defiance.

"Now ask yourself, who is in the ascendancy? Every year more and more worlds are lost to you. No matter how you lie to yourself that the warp is held at bay, you know deep in that untaught part of yourself that humanity will fall. The girl cannot see the inevitable. But you can. And do you really want to be dragged down by the Imperium as it sinks? You will die knowing your efforts were futile. You will die knowing that you know nothing!

I can give you flesh that will not wither, only change and become home to a civilisation of pestilence. Do not follow the Imperium when it falls. With my help you can crash it beneath your heel, and become an Imperium yourself, my boy! I can show you what secrets this dark little universe contains. I can show you what it really means to exist in a world your Imperium is blind to."

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Void__Dragon — GMT

D-did Lynata just cite a Black Library novel?

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Lynata — GMT

Yes, I actually do own a couple.

And I even include cherrypicked bits and pieces I like into my own private version of 40k, though I keep that stuff out of any public debates about details in the fluff.

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Jimsolo — GMT

All of the Chapters (and all of the various factions, for that matter) preach an ethos that is, on some level, deceptive, hypocritical, or ignorant of the truth. It's not out of the question for a Space Marine to get a glimpse 'behind the curtain' so to speak, and have an inability to reconcile reality with the worldview they are taught to accept. That could easily lead to a defection.

Also, isolation. There has been several stories of Marines stuck in the Warp, or in Commorragh, or anywhere else that leaves one alone and isolated. The fact that the Imperial Fists were so suspicious of Lysander after his return leads me to suspect that long term isolation like that can lead one into corruption rather easily, possibly without even realizing it.

Finally, there are a few Chapters (notably the Flesh Tearers and the Carcharodons Astra) that are pretty close to Chaos anyway. For some groups in the Imperium, it isn't lifestyle or ethics that separate them from Chaos so much as it is a refusal to admit just how screwed up they are. There are Chaos forces which do not worship the Chaos gods as deities, or even pay them any homage at all. I think that in this vein, there are a few groups of Imperium-loyal soldiers that already ARE Chaos troops, in that they serve the goals of Chaos more than they harm them.

Hope that helps!

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Smacks — GMT

Another reason might just be that Chaos has a tendency to pick up strays. If you accidentally kill your sergeant, or get fed up being told what to do. You might decide to go AWOL rather than face the consequences.

Life probably isn't too easy for a marine deserter. The inquisition and likely your own chapter will be out for blood. You would have to avoid all imperial authority (And I don't reckon blending-in is very easily when you're 8 foot tall, 5 foot wide, and possibly wearing power armour). Before long you probably find yourself an outlaw, maybe running with pirates, doing what you do best.

Next thing you and your buddies are being chased by a Mars class battle cruiser , and forced to hide out in the Maelstrom. Soon the only places safe to dock are renegade worlds where you'll be brushing shoulders with Beastmen and god knows what else. It's a slippery slope. Before you know it: you've fallen in with the wrong crowd. Start hitting the spice pretty hard; maybe a bit of casual demon worship (it's not like anyone who is being hunted by the inquisition is going to retain much love for the Imperium).

Inevitably, after many adventures, you end up on a battlefield somewhere in the middle of a Black Crusade. Your ears hardwired to your testicles, playing a guitar shaped bolter, skull****ing a guardsman with your tentacle arm, and screaming 'Blood for the blood god!... It could happen to anyone.

(Also that looks infected. )

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Lynata — GMT

Why is it that the 8 is so much more popular?
I think they'd have a chance at hiding, physically, given that there are mutants with a similar physique (regarding body size) also successfully hiding away in various underhives. However, would the Marine want to hide? Would he be able to adapt, given the lifestyle he is used to?

... so yeah, the piracy bit is a good point. Isn't that how the Red Corsairs pick up most of their new recruits?

Smacks wrote:Your ears hardwired to your testicles, playing a guitar shaped bolter, skull****ing a guardsman with your tentacle arm, and screaming 'Blood for the blood god!... It could happen to anyone.

That bit made me giggle.

"Chaos. Not even once."

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Pilau Rice — GMT

Not every Astartes wants to throw his life away, some have self preservation and that selfishness leads to damnation in a lot of cases.

Re:How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Smacks — GMT

Lynata wrote:

Smacks wrote:Your ears hardwired to your testicles, playing a guitar shaped bolter, skull****ing a guardsman with your tentacle arm, and screaming 'Blood for the blood god!... It could happen to anyone.
That bit made me giggle.

"Chaos. Not even once."

"THIS is your brain on Chaos!"

Spoiler:

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

deffskulla — GMT

Well for Tzeentch it can be quite easy to get Space Marines to turn over to him, especially the Librarians who already look into the void. He has his way of scheming and using minions to get what he wants, it could be brief exposures here and there. The Blood Angels Omnibus is a nice look into how that can work, a battle here, Chaos invasion there and a already turned Inquistor there, and boom you got a whole lot of Blood Angels doing your bidding with a twisted since of the Emperors Will... I'm not 100% if it was a Tzeentch plan but the entire time it was in the back of my mind.

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

GimbleMuggernaught — GMT

deffskulla wrote:
I'm not 100% if it was a Tzeentch plan but the entire time it was in the back of my mind.

It's ALWAYS a Tzeentch plan.

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Veteran Sergeant — GMT

Spikes and a hammer.

How does a Space Marine defect to Chaos?

Fezman — GMT

If Loyalist Chapters let their members wear spiky armour most defections to Chaos would probably never happen. Remember, prevention's cheaper than the cure.