<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile Hi,
I love Nids but I dont think they are very competitive, here are a few rule changes that I think could push them to being able to fight better without making them overkill

Overall changes

Shadow in the warp
always affects all psychers as long as one synapse is still in play but if you are more than 12" away from them you discard the lowest dice (still roll an extra one though), does not affect ennemy Tyranids.
This rule was ok but didnt give off the feel that the codex gave, where anyone in the whole world fighting nids (especially psykers) were feeling like their brains were getting torn inside out.

Regeneration
at the end of any turn the creature with Regeneration would has been killed roll a dice, on a 5+ he comes back to life with 1 wound, cannot regenerate more that turn.

Creatures

Swarmlord
- lose flanking rerolls but gets 2+ArSv and Bs4 for 310pts (+30pts)

Tyrant Guards
- lose 1Ws, 1Str and 2 Ini as well as Blind Rampage but reduces cost to 45pts a piece (-15pts) can exchange Rending Claws for BoneClaws (+1Ws & Str ap2 Unwieldy) @ 15pts


Zoanthropes
- 55pts (-5pts)

Lictors
feth this...

Deathleaper
-Eternal Warrior, Feel no pain, lose Pheremone Trail

Ymgarl Genestealers
- 21pts (-2pts)

Hormagaunts
- AG and TS upgrade become 1 pts a piece, also option to give them a 4+ArSv @ 3pts (they are suppose to be able to evolve so as to be resistant to bolter fire)

Termagaunts
-option to give them a 4+ArSv @ 2pts (they are also suppose to be able to evolve so as to be resistant to bolter fire)

Warriors and Shriekes
- +1 Toughness -1 Wounds ( I love this change, it allows them to survive a str 8 hit without exploding but doesnt require a point increase since they do lose a wound)
- Toxin Sac 3pts (-2pts) Adrenal Glands 2pts (-3pts)
- Shriekes can get a 4+ArSv @ 3pts

Genestealers
- Lose Flanking but get a 4+ArSv, option to get Flanking and Stealth @ 3pts

Tervigon
- Can choose to be carrying Hormagaunts instead of Termagaunts but this cost 15pts his Brood progeniture ability affects hormagaunts instead, Crushing claw @ 20pts (-5pts)

Trygon
- Regeneration 30pts (+5pts), Trygon Prime 30pts (-10pts)


Carnifex
- 135pts (-25pts) Regeneration 20pts (-5pts)


I know I left a few units alone that could stand to get a boost but I mostly touched up the guys I like which I felt needed a bit of a boost.

what do you guys think?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5341367.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5341367.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile What you have suggested has no balance to it. You try to balance it by removing crappy abilities or making them cheaper while making the alright abilities better. It's like taking away 1 and adding 2. personnaly the only thing i would change about the Tyranids is an FAQ or white dwarf update to give something skyfire. Perhaps a new Pyrovore varient or an anti air Tyrannofex. The only way to take flyers down now is to take a HQ spot up with a flyrant. Not cheap...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5345452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5345452.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
 1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:
I'll be the one to say it. Just no...
What you have suggested has no balance to it. You try to balance it by removing crappy abilities or making them cheaper while making the alright abilities better. It's like taking away 1 and adding 2. personnaly the only thing i would change about the Tyranids is an FAQ or white dwarf update to give something skyfire. Perhaps a new Pyrovore varient or an anti air Tyrannofex. The only way to take flyers down now is to take a HQ spot up with a flyrant. Not cheap...


Yeah I'd have to agree with you, the only thing Nids need is the options that aren't taken, to be buffed, so as that there is some sort of competition within the codex, making it more balanced.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5345475.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5345475.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
If you guys would look at the title this is about changing Nids, you guys are reacting to this by saying no changes are required, which is fine in a way but you arent exactly being constructive in your feedback.

I personally think Nids have a ton of changes required to make all the models I want to play with balanced and good in 6th edition rules. Yes this involves removing crappy abilities and making certain guys cheaper or adding new abilities that would allow them to do what is required of them, other stuff if just to fit the fluff better,
if Tyranids can make a 2+ArSv Hive Tyrant then there is no reason for them not to make the Swarmlord lack protection, hell this doesnt really make him better since he gets even more expensive (he was already kinda too expensive) and most things that would be able to hurt him already has ap2 but I just find it more fluffy, the BS of 4 is once again just cuz he is that good, barely usefull but fluffy),

Warriors needed to get something to avoid getting one shotted by Str8 hits, anybody who disagrees hasnt played with them I think the lose of a wound to add T5 is a great patch

you will notice that the already good stuff didnt really get better
( Hive tyrants are the same Trygons are pretty much the same except they have an almost reasonable option of Regenerating, Hive guards and Doom of malantai dont need a change)

Carnifex is decent with double dev but still too expensive, you compare him to a grey knight Dreadknight and you laugh horribly, I dont expect him to be nearly as good as that broken piece of op crap but at least make it a bit less of a leap in power in between these two pieces with about the same role.

Giving the gaunts the option get a 4+ ArSv is once again just for fluff sake but I dont think its actually underpointed, no one would used the option if you make it cost 4 points or more for it. also 2 pts for TS or AG on a 6 pts hormagaunt was bull, especially since Furious charge doesnt give + 1 Ini anymore

giving the Tervigon the option to sprout Hormagaunts seem fun and not illogical fluff wise, I am making it cost to get since hormagaunts are a bit better.

having the option to get a cheaper Tyrant guard with significantly lowered combat capabilities seems like a good idea to me





]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5348013.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5348013.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
Carnies do need a points drop, or give Bio-Plasma at current base points cost.

I think on larger MC there needs to be an "armor upgrade" to provide an Invulnerable save. It would be nice to actually avoid the occasional wound from a krak missile or lascannon by something other than hoping your opponent rolls a 1 to wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5353526.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5353526.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
 Mattlov wrote:
Warriors would be fine if they just gave Synapse the ability to ignore Instant Death like it used to.

Carnies do need a points drop, or give Bio-Plasma at current base points cost.

I think on larger MC there needs to be an "armor upgrade" to provide an Invulnerable save. It would be nice to actually avoid the occasional wound from a krak missile or lascannon by something other than hoping your opponent rolls a 1 to wound.


Yeah I'd be happy with carnis at the points they are now, if they had 6 wounds. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5353639.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5353639.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile I would like a potential of a 5++ on a hive tyrant but other MC are ok without it, they have a FnP pottential from psyckers and more wounds then any other armies have access to.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5356396.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5356396.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile FNP, and carnis had the option of 2+ armour, I'd be happy with one or the other. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358100.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
Eldercaveman wrote:
I'm sure in the old dex, synapse used to give FNP, and carnis had the option of 2+ armour, I'd be happy with one or the other.


Wut? No, synapse never granted FNP. Carnies did have the option for a 2+ save though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358159.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358159.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
 amanita wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
I'm sure in the old dex, synapse used to give FNP, and carnis had the option of 2+ armour, I'd be happy with one or the other.


Wut? No, synapse never granted FNP. Carnies did have the option for a 2+ save though.


Sorry, meant eternal warrior. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358178.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358178.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
My group doesn't play 6th edition, so my changes to the Tyranid dex probably would not be appropriate here. I would say most of the OP is pretty much on target though. Some things needed beefing up, a points drop, or even a points hike. It seems in every 'fandex' the things under-costed are never addressed.
We bumped gargoyles up a point, hive guard up 5, Doom up 25, and dropped some of the tervigon's abilities, among other things. Tired of 'no-brainer' options in ANY dex, tbh!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358201.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
 amanita wrote:
You bet! The term Eternal Warrior wasn't around yet but it's the same concept, as you say.

My group doesn't play 6th edition, so my changes to the Tyranid dex probably would not be appropriate here. I would say most of the OP is pretty much on target though. Some things needed beefing up, a points drop, or even a points hike. It seems in every 'fandex' the things under-costed are never addressed.
We bumped gargoyles up a point, hive guard up 5, Doom up 25, and dropped some of the tervigon's abilities, among other things. Tired of 'no-brainer' options in ANY dex, tbh!


The tervigon and hive tyrant with wings and double DEVS aren't no brainers because they are OMGROFLSTOMP awesome, they are no brainers because everything else around them is so poor. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5358237.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile And how exactly do termagants not whelped by this brute get toxin sacs simply by being nearby? HUH? I can understand some adrenal pheromone being triggered, but suddenly becoming poisonous?

I am perfectly happy to suspend belief, unless that suspension is stretched to the snapping point.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5360065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5360065.page GMT Nids a few rule changes to make them more worthwhile
 amanita wrote:
Never said tyrants were no brainers. The Tervigon's powers just don't make sense - why would a pregnant space dinosaur join the battle and randomly spit out babies instead of just sending out the babies ahead of time? And how is it possible to have on average 21 offspring, but on occasion 40, 50 or even more?? What's going on inside this thing? Where's the sufficient mass? Is the inside of this thing like Snoopy's dog house or Doctor Who's tardis?
And how exactly do termagants not whelped by this brute get toxin sacs simply by being nearby? HUH? I can understand some adrenal pheromone being triggered, but suddenly becoming poisonous?

I am perfectly happy to suspend belief, unless that suspension is stretched to the snapping point.


While I can't explain the 40K T.A.R.D.I.S physics of the Tervigon, other than saying ... Grimdark....

The toxin sacs could be the embiotic fluid on them which has dripped off after they move out from over 6"......

Which doesn't explain while others than haven't been spawned get it, or how they get it for so long after, so once again I guess.... Grimdark]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5361421.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/511011/5361421.page GMT