creeping-deth87 wrote:
It's a well established fact that heavy weapons squads are weak units. Low leadership with low model counts sees them running off the board pretty frequently, with only 1 casualty forcing a check. My proposed solution is to offer these models a gun shield save, since they actually are modeled with gun shields. At 3+, it would mean that they could handle small arms fire pretty well but would fold to heavier weapons like an actual gun shield. What do you guys think?

Alternative option: give the squad a sergeant for some leadership 8, and allow them to take additional Guardsmen with las guns like Devestators can take extra bolter marines.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
It's a well established fact that heavy weapons squads are weak units. Low leadership with low model counts sees them running off the board pretty frequently, with only 1 casualty forcing a check. My proposed solution is to offer these models a gun shield save, since they actually are modeled with gun shields. At 3+, it would mean that they could handle small arms fire pretty well but would fold to heavier weapons like an actual gun shield. What do you guys think?

Alternative option: give the squad a sergeant for some leadership 8, and allow them to take additional Guardsmen with las guns like Devestators can take extra bolter marines.

You don't understand the finer concepts of "Alpha Strike', do you?

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

No more than you understand the finer points of argumentation apparently.

To everyone else thanks for your input so far, I especially like giving them combined squad.

General Annoyance wrote:
Heavy weapons teams are not weak. I've played guard for 4 years and they have always yielded good results. even if they do retreat, its not before they have cracked open a dozen metal boxes. I think you need to use them more flexibly, and think about some, hmmm, cover saves?! and if they really do get shot, then it ties up the enemy for enough time for me to crack some shots with my Leman Russes.

 p_gray99 wrote:
I'd say a 4+ armour due to the weapons shield would probably fix it. After all, all normal weapons (e.g. bolters or pulse rifles) are AP5 or worse, but it wouldn't give them such a big save that they required anti-tank weaponry to take them out.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Congratulations, you made an actually meaningful post! Now we can have this wonderful thing called... a discussion!

To address your points: firstly, the only 'better way to run' a heavy weapons squad is to take a lord commissar for the leadership 10 bubble, which does a fine job of mitigating their leadership problems but costs at least 70 points to babysit a unit that's not terribly points efficient in the first place, and he does nothing for their survivability.

Secondly, making an entirely new unit to replace them is beyond the scope of this thread. I wanted to fix something, not replace it.

Thirdly, your last 2 sentences betray how little you know of the guard codex. Heavy weapons squads with combined squad would not be used to make bigger heavy weapons squads (which would make them an even bigger glass cannon), it would mean you could attach them to infantry squads which is much better than the current system where you can only field 1 heavy weapon per squad.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Run 3x infantry squads with 5x HWS, then do that as many times as you can fit in your army, while still having meaningful armour/flyers or whatever. Th trick is actually to not upgrae your infantry squads; leaving them as bare as possible - it doesn't matter when the heavy weapon squads are the priority target

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
It's a well established fact that heavy weapons squads are weak units. Low leadership with low model counts sees them running off the board pretty frequently, with only 1 casualty forcing a check. My proposed solution is to offer these models a gun shield save, since they actually are modeled with gun shields. At 3+, it would mean that they could handle small arms fire pretty well but would fold to heavier weapons like an actual gun shield. What do you guys think?

Alternative option: give the squad a sergeant for some leadership 8, and allow them to take additional Guardsmen with las guns like Devestators can take extra bolter marines.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Run 3x infantry squads with 5x HWS, then do that as many times as you can fit in your army, while still having meaningful armour/flyers or whatever. Th trick is actually to not upgrae your infantry squads; leaving them as bare as possible - it doesn't matter when the heavy weapon squads are the priority target

You do know that a HWS isn't really that damn cheap to spam. With a bare-bone configuration, you are looking at 430 points (1x PCS, 2x IS, 5x HWS) and you only have Mortars... And Guard infantry can't soak up that much damage to actually make it worth the effort (and the points). Especially since you can always use Vendettas and Russes instead of your fragile footmen.

 p_gray99 wrote:
How about just giving them stealth? It'd mean that they had a good cover save wherever they were hiding, but it wouldn't make them overpowered.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
It's a well established fact that heavy weapons squads are weak units. Low leadership with low model counts sees them running off the board pretty frequently, with only 1 casualty forcing a check. My proposed solution is to offer these models a gun shield save, since they actually are modeled with gun shields. At 3+, it would mean that they could handle small arms fire pretty well but would fold to heavier weapons like an actual gun shield. What do you guys think?

Alternative option: give the squad a sergeant for some leadership 8, and allow them to take additional Guardsmen with las guns like Devestators can take extra bolter marines.