<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed? Hello, I am here today to talk about my favourite chapter space marines, the Black Templar, and their current state in 6th edition.

I have played BT ever since I learned how to play WH40K, and to a reasonable rate of success.

At the beginning of 6th edition, there were a few teething problems, as I guess there was with every other player and there army, and I really couldn't seem to get a win. What with the changes to assaults, the fact that my tanks, even my beloved LRC could be glanced to death, and most of all, we lost the original version of Preferred Enemy, nerfing one of the things I most loved about this army.

Challenges also hurt, as the only character in our dex with WS6 was the Emperors Champion, and although he was amazing, couldn't cut it with just 2 wounds against most other armies.
I did eventually find a technique that worked, and I was getting victories over Space Wolves, Orks, Tau and Necrons regularly, but with following FAQ's and the release of new super cool codexes, they went back in the box, and there they stayed a for a long time.

A few weeks ago I decided to take them out for a game against a friends Dark Angels army... and I can say... I got well and truly mashed up. Only had like 3 Crusaders left on the table.
The list I ran was the same as what I had regular success with, revolving around a Marshal in TA with TH/SS and a few other goodies, in a LRC with 5 assault termies (2xLC 3xTH/SS) and an attached Master of Sanctity for his Litanies of Hate. These worked well against a squad of tacticals, but then the deathwing showed up and pretty much blew them off the table :(

The LRC fell to Smite mode from the Deathwing Knights so so easily, my transports were glanced to death by missile fire, and my objective holding crusader squads were shot down by plasma cannon fire within 2 turns. My only hope was that my Emperors Champion with his squad of 9 Initiates and 5 Neophyts could get down the flank and begin rolling up his back line. Well... that never happened. His squads had so much fire power, and a banner that gave them even more, and a cheesy Librarian leading them, I didnt stand a chance. The few men I got into charge distance were swiftly shot dead by overwatch.

So, in my opinion, Black Templars, although still the coolest guys around, just canny stand up to these new codexes and what toys they have to play with.
Until we get a new book, (which hopefully shouldn't be too long), they are staying in the box a while longer

Let me know how you fair against these new armies, or of any BT builds that can stand up against them, would love to hear about it.

Thank you Brothers!


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5560919.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5560919.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed? Tank hunting venerable dreads
POTMS vinidcators
Blessed armor landraiders
Cheap assault marines that can have a melta bomb on each guy
Rightous zeal, so getting closer is easier
Vows for customization
Cheap troops, with meat shields
The ability to take special weapons sooner on their infantry
Lack Sargent, so challenges are easier to avoid
Can cover the field quickly without vehicles

All this makes a great army, when used properly. BT aren't as easy as IG or GK to use, but still almost as good in the hands of a vet. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5561408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5561408.page GMT Re:Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed?
E's Champ did get that nerf with the Black Sword.

Vs most people I slap down 3x POTMS Vindicators, LRC, and rhinos, tank hunter dread in a drop pod, at least one 5x melta bomb assault trooper squad, and as many crusaders as possible.

Vs Space Marines I bring in at least 5 hamminators... where is your armour save now?

I hate Librarians though. Even on games where I take "Abhor the Witch" I still take huge losses. The other week I played vs. Space Marines and twice had "hallucination" cast. One squad was left with only an initiate with a power sword left (after he was done killing everyone else). And the E's Champ squad became just the E's Champ naked in front of Lascannons (his body shields weren't Righteous Enough to escape the Black Sword).

Difficult to play, but at least I can throw up my arms and declare "Righteous Zeal!" or "Abhor the Witch" or "son of a-"

Coolest marines out there though ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5561907.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5561907.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed?
 juraigamer wrote:
Black templars have tank hunting dual 5 man cyclone termies
Tank hunting venerable dreads


Dread. Singular. You're not allowed to make more than one Dreadnought per detachment Venerable.

 juraigamer wrote:
Black templars have tank hunting dual 5 man cyclone termies


Good, but expensive, and got slightly nerfed due to AP3 not being as good at anti-tank as before.


 juraigamer wrote:

POTMS vinidcators


Decent enough, I suppose.


 juraigamer wrote:

Blessed armor landraiders


Which isn't worth taking in a TAC list. 25 points to feth over Eldar and Dark Eldar slightly is just too situational.


 juraigamer wrote:

Cheap assault marines that can have a melta bomb on each guy


In what universe is 22 PPM before paying for meltabombs cheap?


 juraigamer wrote:

Rightous zeal, so getting closer is easier


And so that lasplas-squads run out of cover or down from the second floor when they take a casualty. It also severely lessens the value of a Quadgun at an Aegis, as you've got to move back (and this fire snap shots) if you take a casualty.


 juraigamer wrote:

Vows for customization


Irrelevant when two of the Vows are more or less worthless and a third is marginal at best.


 juraigamer wrote:

Cheap troops, with meat shields


Again, cheap?! 16 PPM without frag or krak isn't cheap.


 juraigamer wrote:

The ability to take special weapons sooner on their infantry


Not sooner than anyone who isn't Vanilla. Space Wolves get a Special Weapon at 5 man, BA Assault Marines get a Special Weapon at 5 man, DA Tacticals get a special at 5 man.


 juraigamer wrote:

Lack Sargent, so challenges are easier to avoid


Also means you can't use challenges to your advantage, but I'd agree that having a hidden Power Fist/Axe is quite beneficial. It can get sniped more easily than a Sergeant though.


 juraigamer wrote:

All this makes a great army, when used properly. BT aren't as easy as IG or GK to use, but still almost as good in the hands of a vet.


Are Black Templars still playable? Yes, definitely. Are they almost as good as IG or GK? No. Just no.

Now, on to what I consider useful things:

Adamantine Mantle: If you're not going for a gunline (i.e. your Warlord is a barebones Castellan/Marshal in Terminator Armour to unlock another Terminator Squad) you want your Warlord to have it.

Techmarines: They add a 2+ save and a Character to a unit, as well as granting said unit a punch that will give most enemies pause. They're excellent in Drop Pod-squads, as they let you either give BS5 to a Meltagun or help fire away with the Servo-harness, depending on what you're trying to kill. A Techmarine with Servo-harness, Power Axe and Storm Shield is just 120 points, and he'll put a dent in any unit that doesn't have a good Invulnerable Save. Against ordinary MEQ he turns a Crusader Squad from OK-ish to death incarnate.

Tactical Terminators: Regardless of whether they have CMLs or Assault Cannons, they're excellent units. Costly, but excellent, although the CML Terminators aren't as good as they used to be. They pack just as great a punch in CC as TH/SS Terminators, although they obviously don't have the 3++.

Crusader blobs: 6th edition is all about durable scoring units. 10 MEQ bodies and 10 scouts will usually not die unless the enemy considers it the prime target, in which case it'll still take quite a bit of firepower to take down.

Stormravens: I don't like them myself, but there's nothing wrong with the Stormraven as a gunship. If you start putting stuff in it the cost will quickly become prohibitive, and if it's anything Black Templars don't need it's more expensive toys. The weakness of the Codex is not that there's not enough expensive, powerful units, it's that there's almost no cheap units that are powerful for their cost. The closest thing we have is the Land Speeder Typhoon (which is now a 2 HP vehicle,s till useable, but very fragile) and the...

Stormtalons: If I were going for a flier, I'd go here. Though weaker than the Stormraven, I'd argue that it's more value for the points.

Lasplas Crusader Squads: Horribly annoying to deal with after the FAQ FAQ'd up Righteous Zeal, but still our best objective campers.

Arguably the best TH/SS Terminators in the game: Rage make these guys silly. They kill stuff even deader than their Vanilla cousins on the charge. The drawback being that they're almost completely wasted outside a Land Raider, which drives their astronomical cost up further.

A last honorable mention goes out to Bike Squads with Plasma Guns. IIRC 5 bikes with 3 Plasma Guns cost 3 points more than 5 bikes with 2 Plasma Guns and a Combi-plasma in the Vanilla book.

Build-wise, I'm currently going with a Chaplain-led blob supported by Drop Pods and Terminators. This absolutely requires there to be some LOS-blocking terrain on the table, however, and not the open wasteland with a few craters that is all too common.

I'll repeat what I just said for emphasis: adequate terrain makes a whole world of difference when playing as Black Templars.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5562967.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5562967.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed? DftS gave you the Stormraven and the Stormtalon.
Ok, not very BT-ish, but now you can kick some ass.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5562979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5562979.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed? I want to know how we do against the New super armies, the tau, daemons, chaos and those DA because as far as I can tell, it's not even worth deploying on the battlefield against them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

DftS gave you the Stormraven and the Stormtalon.
Ok, not very BT-ish, but now you can kick some ass.


I wouldn't count on it... Every other army has some form of skyfire, or flyers that are much better than these 2 we can field.
A new codex is our only hope?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563009.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed? BT codex is supposed to come out for end-2013]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563020.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563020.page GMT Black Templars. Dead and gone in 6th ed?
 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
BT codex is supposed to come out for end-2013


It's also supposed to come out in 2014 and 2015. Supposedly, we're also getting rolled into Vanilla. No one knows.

As for going up against Chaos, I've been doing just fine against my local Chaos player and recently went up against 2 CSM players in a tournament. Got tabled once due to bad luck (a scattering objective going straight into his deployment zone), the other I beat handily. Admittedly, though, they didn't have Heldrakes, so not sure how much it matters, but it was Pre-DFtS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563193.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/524056/5563193.page GMT