<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread ""Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive) lvl 4 mage on dragon (Daenerys) (also was thinking of getting a lvl4 mage on a steed or on foot for smaller games)

lvl 2 mage (handmaiden od Dany) (optional)

noble (Sir Jorah) (optional)

Core:

35-45 lothern seaguard, FC (full command) (the Unsullied)

20 archers (the slaves)

5 ellyrian reavers (Dothraki outriders)

5 ellyrian reavers (Dothraki outriders)

Special:
16-20 swordmasters FC (sellswords)
16-20 swordmasters FC (sellswords)
12 dragon princes FC ( Bloodriders)

Rare:
3 great eagles (possibly will proxy them as small dragons)

Would this be a playable fun/semi competitive list with the right upgrades etc?. I'm looking for a 2000-2500-3000 pts. variations with the list by removing a bit here and there, but mainly keeping the list somewhat the same. Comments and criticism welcome! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629454.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
1) Why is Dany a lvl 4 mage? Is it because she has shown any magical capability in the books (which is arguable at best, and certainly not LEVEL FOUR worthy), or because level 4 mages are considered important for a competitive list. Dany may be the mother of Dragons, but shes not really a casting type. I would understand a Red Priest like Mellisandra or Thoros as a Fire Mage, or the Damphair being something, but Dany? Really?


2) You have unsullied great, your unsullied are the worst troops in your army and they carry bows... wut?? But don't worry, you've got sellswords as well! and they are obviosuly incredibly eite compared to the trained from birth Unsullied... OK.

I get it, the Island of Blood, Sea Guard and Sword Masters have cheap good models. Gotcha, but REALLY? You are going to look a man in the Hairy Eyeball and tell him that your Sell Swords are more elite than Unsullied. Especially when you could be running Pheonix Guard to represent the Unsullied, which are far more alligned to their role on the battle field. Themed armies are cool, but they are much less so when it just feels like a generic HE army with a fancy title.

Just out of curiousity though, why Jorah? At the moment it seems like Bariston would be the noble of choice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629567.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629567.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 akaean wrote:
I am having a very hard time liking this list. I get that Game of Thrones is cool, and that High Elves are cool, and that you want to combine the two- but to me it looks like you just strapped a Dragon onto a generic competitive high elf list, and want to call it a mother of dragons army.

1) Why is Dany a lvl 4 mage? Is it because she has shown any magical capability in the books (which is arguable at best, and certainly not LEVEL FOUR worthy), or because level 4 mages are considered important for a competitive list. Dany may be the mother of Dragons, but shes not really a casting type. I would understand a Red Priest like Mellisandra or Thoros as a Fire Mage, or the Damphair being something, but Dany? Really?


2) You have unsullied great, your unsullied are the worst troops in your army and they carry bows... wut?? But don't worry, you've got sellswords as well! and they are obviosuly incredibly eite compared to the trained from birth Unsullied... OK.

I get it, the Island of Blood, Sea Guard and Sword Masters have cheap good models. Gotcha, but REALLY? You are going to look a man in the Hairy Eyeball and tell him that your Sell Swords are more elite than Unsullied. Especially when you could be running Pheonix Guard to represent the Unsullied, which are far more alligned to their role on the battle field. Themed armies are cool, but they are much less so when it just feels like a generic HE army with a fancy title.

Just out of curiousity though, why Jorah? At the moment it seems like Bariston would be the noble of choice.
Just WOW... ok... let me say it again... WOW. Didn't think i would get that kind of a responce for a fun/semi comp list Ok i see your point, but here is my point. I understand that the unsullied are a super elite unit, but what weapons do they carry? spears and shields? Also they are trained in the use of other weapons. That is why i chose the seaguard. Also they can be more numerous than the swordmasters, which will btw die in drowes with only their heavy armor. I forgot to include that i have not played FB for over 8 years and this is the first list i have basically made after deciding to start up the game again, so thx for the inspirational comment Oh and why is Dany a lvl 4 mage. Well there are no "moral" leaders that i know of in the HE army, only either a caster or a CC kind, which of them would be presented by a cloth bearing woman better? I want to make the army look like a "mother of Dragons" army first, but also i don't want to be served my guts back on a silver platter every game i play. But thx for the comments. I seem to have the competitive side of the list well in the works?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629657.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
In all fairness the list looks excellent, it looks pretty much like what a new high elf player would start out with (sans dragon), since the units in Island of Blood are cheap and effective, and it would be a sinning shame not to get started that way because it is so darn economical.

Its a fine list, it will serve you well, and get you back in the ropes of the game (the only real glaring problem with the list itself is a level 4 mage on a dragon costs a bazillion points and screams shoot me with a cannon or two to get a ton of easy victory points, cripple my magic phase, and kill my general all at once in the first turn or 2 of the game).

It just doesn't strike me as effectively thematically representing the rich background of Game of Thrones. I don't mean to be a huge jack ass, I just am- at least until the mid mourning where I can control my donkey-cave impulses a bit better .

To be honest with you, I think Empire would work better as a representation rules wise.
- Flagellents make very good representations of freed slaves- unclouthed uprooted villagers fighting out of desparation. As compared to crack shot high leadership archers acting as counts as for untrained free slaves who serve little tactical purpose other than eating food reserves and transfering desieses and providing a moral delema in the book.
- State Troopers can be outfitted in a variety of ways to fit the roles of sell swords, and sell sword companies
- Unsullied can be counts as great swords
- Karl Franz on the Imperial Dragon can be a counts as Danny on Dragon in larger point games.
- The Characters can buy Plate Armour, So Jorah and Barristan can be honest heavily armoured Knights.
All high Elves have going for them in terms of theme is that they can take dragons for generic characters- otherwise Empire will represent your individual units a bit more effectifvely.

EDIT: I suppose my point is, I feel like when making a themed army, care should always be taken to choose the army that best represents the theme. For Example lets say I really liked Mass Effect (and I do) and I wanted to make a Geth themed army. The obvious choice would be Necrons. Another Example would be Eldar Representing Asari. The issue I think I have, is that you are representing Human Armies (unsullied, sell swords, etc), and totally ignoring the Human army fantasy equivalents, it seems wierd to me- Almost like choosing Dark Eldar to represent a Turian army (instead of probably Space Marines?... whatever you get the idea).

Look at it this way, if you were to play a game agaisnt an Empire or Bretonnian Opponent, your GoT Human army (High Elves) have troops infiniately better trained and more elite, despite being humans in the background, and despite a large part of Dany's followers being totally untrained and unfit for combat. That doesn't really help me forge a narrative, which I think is especially important when building a themed army. I am probably in a minority about this, but I think its important that human armies have human stats, as that really helps the game make sense, and really forge that narrative!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5629830.page GMT Re:"Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
You need a fairly unskilled general riding a flying monster that breathes fire.
2x Flying Monsters, breathing fire would be nice.
Possibly need a bad ass character (bariston the bold), but not a leader.
Crap infantry (freed slaves)
Mediocre infantry (sellswords)
Fast Cav (dothraki outriders)
Elite Cav (Blood Riders)
Elite Infantry (unsullied)
Elite Infantry (Bariston's new trained knights)


Given the mix of units, I think dark elves would be a better mix.
You can run a lord on dragon (mother of dragons)
2x nobles on manticores (younger dragons)
Assassin (Bariston the bold)
Spearmen (crap infantry)
Corsairs (sellswords)
Dark Riders (outriders)
Cold ones (Blood Riders)
Black Guard (Unsullied)
Witch Elves (Baristors new foot knights)

If you wanted to squeeze in a wizard, a warlock (shadow wizard) or blood mage (death wizard) would seem to be the best fit.

I think a mother of dragons with 4 S4 attacks is a much better fit than a level 4 archmage. Dude, she broke a dragon with a whip, I'll believe 4 S4 attacks.


If you want to keep it high elves, then I'd switch the lord on dragon to an Annoited on Fire Phoenix.


-Matt



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5630106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5630106.page GMT Re:"Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive) but i would like to say that she is only riding the dragon and the dragon would be "casting" fire spells. Or i will just use her as a princess on a drake. I'm also looking for good models to use as Dany on foot and the best one so far is the dark elf sorceress (plastic one). Jist paint her with platin blonde hair, tanned skin and light purple robe and i'm golden as for jorah and barristan, i could take one as a BSB and the other to lead the dragon knights and was thinking of using the empire general box to do them. I feel that when based and painted the right way, i can capture the feel of the game of thrones best with high elves (ignoring the pointy ears). And i could call all of them unsullied. The swordmasters would be the hardened veterans and the spearmen the not so trained ones that were freed before their training was complete.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5631839.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5631839.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
Dany on dragon - Counts as Daemon Prince, dany has no attacks of herself the models are amalgamated into one statline.
Barristan - (general) counts as Chaos Lord on Foot

Unsullied - count as chaos warriors
Dothraki - count as marauder horsemen
Freemen - count as marauders on foot

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637015.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 Orlanth wrote:
I think you would get better results with Chaos Warriors.

Dany on dragon - Counts as Daemon Prince, dany has no attacks of herself the models are amalgamated into one statline.
Barristan - (general) counts as Chaos Lord on Foot

Unsullied - count as chaos warriors
Dothraki - count as marauder horsemen
Freemen - count as marauders on foot

meh...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637230.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 Orlanth wrote:
I think you would get better results with Chaos Warriors.

Dany on dragon - Counts as Daemon Prince, dany has no attacks of herself the models are amalgamated into one statline.
Barristan - (general) counts as Chaos Lord on Foot

Unsullied - count as chaos warriors
Dothraki - count as marauder horsemen
Freemen - count as marauders on foot



Problem is that Dothraki are horse archers. I don't think it would be a good idea to ignore that.

-Matt]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5637309.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
HawaiiMatt wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
I think you would get better results with Chaos Warriors.

Dany on dragon - Counts as Daemon Prince, dany has no attacks of herself the models are amalgamated into one statline.
Barristan - (general) counts as Chaos Lord on Foot

Unsullied - count as chaos warriors
Dothraki - count as marauder horsemen
Freemen - count as marauders on foot



Problem is that Dothraki are horse archers. I don't think it would be a good idea to ignore that.

-Matt
yeah... Thats why i was thinking reavers. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638385.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 masquerade81 wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:

Problem is that Dothraki are horse archers. I don't think it would be a good idea to ignore that.
-Matt
yeah... Thats why i was thinking reavers.

But the rest of the list looks like you're trying to shoe horn it.

If you just posted the army as a high elf army, I would have said that's a decent list.
It feels like said, how can I make high elves fit a game of thones list, rather than how can I make a game of thrones list.

-Matt]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638734.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
About the only thing that they have in common is that they are both elite cav units. Dragon Princes are more like traditional Knights than anything else, comparable to Grail Knights, Blood Knights, and Chaos Knights in Warhammer, heavily armoured, on armoured warhorses, probably carrying a lance and other knightly weapons. Blood Riders are elite dothraki- and still lightly armoured and their horses are not in barding. How do these have anything in common at all? Dragon Knights would be more comparable to the Kingsguard- traditional knights but on a very elite level. But not Blood Riders...

I know that you really don't want to hear anybody tell you anything but "High Elves are great for Game of Thrones" but for Dothraki elements, Wood Elves are going to be far more accurate. Glade Riders as Dothraki outlriders, and Wild Riders as your Blood Riders. Wild Riders fit the theme of being highly skilled in close combat, while not being traditional knights which Blood Riders are not by any stretch of the imagination. Of course WE still beg the question of Unsullied and Slaves, but as I've already pointed out in my first posts, High Elves do not do a good job of representing those either.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5638844.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 akaean wrote:
I am in full agreement with Matt on this one. One example of shoehorning that I see are the use of Dragon Princes as Blood Riders.

About the only thing that they have in common is that they are both elite cav units. Dragon Princes are more like traditional Knights than anything else, comparable to Grail Knights, Blood Knights, and Chaos Knights in Warhammer, heavily armoured, on armoured warhorses, probably carrying a lance and other knightly weapons. Blood Riders are elite dothraki- and still lightly armoured and their horses are not in barding. How do these have anything in common at all? Dragon Knights would be more comparable to the Kingsguard- traditional knights but on a very elite level. But not Blood Riders...

I know that you really don't want to hear anybody tell you anything but "High Elves are great for Game of Thrones" but for Dothraki elements, Wood Elves are going to be far more accurate. Glade Riders as Dothraki outlriders, and Wild Riders as your Blood Riders. Wild Riders fit the theme of being highly skilled in close combat, while not being traditional knights which Blood Riders are not by any stretch of the imagination. Of course WE still beg the question of Unsullied and Slaves, but as I've already pointed out in my first posts, High Elves do not do a good job of representing those either.


Eternal guard make pretty good unsullied. WS5 good number of attacks, fluff says they sometimes fight with spear and shield.

But I don't think this is about making a game of thrones army, it's about squeezing high elves into the theme.

-Matt]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5639446.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5639446.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640201.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
DukeRustfield wrote:
But she's SOO annoying...
maybe in the series, but not in the book. Ok, maybe i am forcing a Game of thrones theme onto a HE army, but i really want to play high elves as i don't want to start another marauder heavy chaos army (had one and sold it). And it's more about making an army around a theme to look good first, play so that i enjoy the matches second, represent the army of the mother of dragons ruleswise third. If i would not play a single match with the army and go 100% out on making it look like the army from the book/series, i would use empire. But i dont want to play empire, or bretonnia. Empire would make a good army with a proxied lord riding a dragon(hippogrif), knights, outriders using pistolier rules and marauder models with bows glued on, some elite infantry as unsullied, free company as the freemen and so on, but the army would not function so that i would ever enjoy playing a game with them. Also they would not feel like an army from a desert or a far away east land at all. HE painted the right way IMO would look like that much better, but anyways.

The point is that the list looks playable and is not missing anything too important, has a good ability to drop down in size for smaler games etc and somewhat fits the theme.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640868.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640868.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
But all of that aside, I'll just throw this out there: Game of Thrones is cool. But so is Warhammer? If you want a specific army and you want it to perform well, why not just go with the themes, images, and literature that Games Workshop has already given us?
Or not. Crossing from one narrative to another is always weird to me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640924.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5640924.page GMT "Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
 masquerade81 wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
I think you would get better results with Chaos Warriors.

Dany on dragon - Counts as Daemon Prince, dany has no attacks of herself the models are amalgamated into one statline.
Barristan - (general) counts as Chaos Lord on Foot

Unsullied - count as chaos warriors
Dothraki - count as marauder horsemen
Freemen - count as marauders on foot



Problem is that Dothraki are horse archers. I don't think it would be a good idea to ignore that.

-Matt
yeah... Thats why i was thinking reavers.


A more intelligent reply than 'meh'.

Dothraki include horse archers but thats not all they are, also real elite horse archers had more in common with marauder horse than horse archer like Reavers.

Cheap horse archers launch arrows from a distance, proper horse archers like those of the Parthians would shoot from just outside melee range for extra potency, while a compound bow might have a long range, thats not how they were used. Warhammer doesnt account for that, but basically uses a weapons raw range. Frankly comparatively high strength mounted throwing axe attacks better represent elite horse archers than Reavers do.
Besides a lot of what we see of Dothraki makes the Marauder horse comparison look fairly good also.

Barristan Selmy is as tough as a knight can get, he should be able to trump normal Empire or Bret lord stats. The question is, how. Chaos Lord is possible, though this assumes that the stat range is expanded to account for the relative mundanity of the background. A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't have much in the way of orc warbosses, but does grade knights with some trumping others, so perhaps the stats should be expanded,
If you dont catch what I mean look at Necromunda, in that game stats are expanded to ordinary gangers can reach very high stats, exceeding SM chapter masters. Either Necromunda gangers are considerably tougher than anyone realises or the stats don't tally in the same way, so a S5 ganger is not the same strength as a S5 40K monster because in regular 40K humans top out at S3.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5641014.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5641014.page GMT Re:"Mother of Dragons", a Game of Thrones inspired HE list (fun/semi competitive)
Ok, the fluff still needs loads of work, but now the army could be basically anything, but still have a "Dany" elf maiden and two knights "jorah and barristan elves" in it and be all out HE models, exept i will ukse the DE sorceress model for dany both on foot and on a dragon for bigger games.

Well would this be a better idea? I would still make the great eagles be the small dragons dany brought to life etc.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5651251.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/527709/5651251.page GMT