<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Now I play both. I attend friday night magic every friday, and usually do fairly well (3rd place average). I also go in on Saturdays and play Warhammer 40k, as well as fantasy and warmahordes. I am one of the only players that does this (that I know), and there is always constant complaints about the players of the other group, and their antics or pet peeves.

Members of their own groups won't talk, and stick to their respective sides of the store, only going up front to buy a paint pot or two. Even then the magic players frown at them for getting in the way (because the models are right behind the magic tables). Now when a magic player goes over to the wargamers, he is generally really bored on between rounds and just wants to look at something. They generally don't talk either and aren't well received if they do.

So has anyone else recognized this, or is it just me?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866548.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866548.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
I find it funny that Warhammer is "too expensive," but it's actually cheaper in most cases.

These guys buy several $100 boxes of Magic: The Gathering cards every time a new set comes out. In a bit over a year, they'll be mostly useless due to standard rotation!

(Please note that I actually do play Magic at my local store as well as 40k).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866561.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866591.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866591.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Dr. What wrote:
I've noticed it quite a bit in my area.

I find it funny that Warhammer is "too expensive," but it's actually cheaper in most cases.

These guys buy several $100 boxes of Magic: The Gathering cards every time a new set comes out. In a bit over a year, they'll be mostly useless due to standard rotation!

(Please note that I actually do play Magic at my local store as well as 40k).

Very true. And the thing is, if you want to make a good competitive deck, you have to go online and buy the cards from different e stores, and it can usually end up being even more expensive than a competitive 40k army! Now if you don't really want a good deck of Magic, you can just buy one of those $10 starter packs, but where's the fun in that? Besides, all magic cards get cycled out, but 40k has more lasting value, (even if the units get nerfed lol)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866603.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866603.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players Wheeze!*

Back when RPGs were young there was much the same divide between wargames and RPGs and between fantasy/SF wargamers and historical wargamers - even at the big conventions.

And folks that got shirty when there was an attempt to do both....

That would be about and around 1975-1985 or thereabouts....

The Auld Grump, me... the same Catholic priest introduced me to both wargaming and RPGs... and the horrors of the Roneograph machine.... Mwu-ha-ha! (I wish that I still had copies of that long ago fanzine....)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866686.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866765.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
I thought magic was a flash in the pan - a fad, one that wouldn't last - that was 20 years ago. I still think it's a fad. Just one that hasn't realised that it is one. Like iphones (No, I don't like iphones much, either. Triumph of marketing over common sense.)

I've heard the usual - "I wouldn't pay $150 for a single model that might go obsolete in 4-5 years." comments (but will drop $3000 on cards that will go 'obsolete' before the model does).

There's even attitudes from the 40k crowd towards the malifaux and WM/H players. "Are you playing a miniatures game or a card game? Put the cards down and play with the minis, or put the pretend armies aside and play with the cards - make up your minds."

They get it back from older gamers, though.
"Is there any 3 dimensional movement in your games that matters? No, then you may as well use counters, like we do."

It's rivalry. Something humans do naturally. It's a "tribal" thing.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866899.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866899.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k and Magic are the two big things, but there's no such thing as animosity, just mild disinterest and that's it really. I've got no interest in Magic myself but that doesn't stop me from joining in at table conversation and asking them about the game. Likewise while they won't play 40k, they do show polite interest and in some cases fair bit of knowledge of the mechanics.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866923.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866923.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players MTG games, but I'm a terrible player. I can only seem to keep up with the action as a spectator. When I'm playing, I tend to forget even the most basic stuff.

That said, I like the creative aspect of 40k more. The tangible art aspect is a big deal for me. I just wish it had more refined and polished mechanics.

I've never really seen any of the animosity, but I generally only play with my friends who are multi-system gamers anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866934.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
...the thing is, if you want to make a good competitive deck, you have to go online and buy the cards from different e stores...

No you don't. You might as well claim to maintain a top tier Warhammer army you have to read up army lists online, then continually buy the latest army strictly from GW (because powercreep, the newest release is highly likely to be the strongest) and then ship it to a professional painter to get them done up. Other things people claim about the costs of magic; that you have to buy several boxes of boosters a year and your cards go obsolete in a year. That's only true if you strictly only play standard and like spending a lot of money. I sure as hell don't do these things. To save myself the effort of making the same arguments again I'll copy/paste what I wrote elsewhere recently.

People keep focusing on the whole MTG rotating thing making it expensive, but that's only an issue if you want a top tier deck and you want to keep up with standard format, and you probably buy cards second hand from dealers. There's no need to do this if you don't want as there are many formats to choose from. In fact, almost no mtg cards are not legal in one format or another today, regardless of age. Furthermore, to meet the minimum requirement for a reasonably sized Warhammer game you have to lay out a fair bit, unless you go all non-GW which I think doesn't address the point those claiming 'it isn't so expensive'. A mtg deck can cost very little, even a moderately competitive standard deck need not cost much with some careful trading. If you just want to get on the Internet, copy the latest Tournanent winning deck and go to online traders to buy all the cards, then yes it will cost a lot. If you don't like that, then use some imagination, make something different and trade for cards and make something cheaper for a lot less.

So mtg 'rotate' their sets in one format only every couple of years. Not like GW who 'rotate' their rulesets every four years and beginning another tedious cycle of codex releases making the old ones redundant. In which they do, in fact, make older things obsolete or at least unfavourable to competitive players (as we are trying to compare to the competitive mtg player). I used to play Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarves, if only I had played Squats to complete the holy trinity. But there's also the many games that GW have made and then ceased. Which it isn't unreasonable to expect people not to play long discontinued stuff in your corporate shops, but mtg cards from 20 years ago are still playable in Wizards sponsored events.

I don't see why mtg is criticised for 'rotating' sets which only affects one of many formats that they support. But these people then praise GW who rehash their rulesets and write off all the books you already owned making them not game legal anywhere but your own home/club. The only place you can play older GW games is with mates at home, they don't support them at all and would actively prevent you playing them in store. Wizards supports formats using cards long out of print. GW don't support things out of print.

How many mtg cards can you 'officially' use from 20 years ago? Most, in commander or legacy/vintage formats. How many books and models from 20 years ago can you 'officially' use from GW? None of the books and a lot of the figures you cannot because they just don't fit the game unless you 'counts-as' or convert them. So they are obsolete, there's just an informal work around if you have a willing opponent. Many mtg cards are as game legal now as when they were printed, and if you're playing informally, anything goes.

I don't see anything much going on between card and wargame players because the shop isn't that large so events tend to be held on different nights. There probably is some irritation when Magic players are cramped for space but two guys at the back playing Warhammer are taking up space for a dozen players.

Most 'irritation' between mtg and wargame (usually GW) players is on the internet, no one seems to bring it up in person, they scuttle home to play internet hard man. I've read comments from one side that the other smell and have hygiene problems, or are particularly rude and antisocial. I really don't think one 'side' is worse than the other at all. I'm not a wargamers but I have played in the past, I play card games and board games. I think nothing of mixing between crowds and see others doing the same, so it's not as tribal as some would say. The only prominent difference I can see in the groups that play Warhammer and Mtg is that I've met several girls playing mtg but never Warhammer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866953.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866953.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players TCG player in my youth, with a decent selection of cards and play against some neighbours who had their own.

I also got an Nintendo Gameboy Colour version of the Pokemon TCG and had a handful of cards but never play.

As the only 2 places I play are a GW Hobby Centre, and occassionally a gamer cafe, both of which are situated in the centre of town in.possibly the most anti-war/card gaming city possible, I have never had nor seen animosity to other sides. I play 440k now and occassionally Yugiph with my little brother so I personally enjoy both types, seing as many card games a quite similar.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866959.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Also, what you can do vs what you DO do are two very different things. I'd venture not many people only play their old cards and don't buy new sets when they come out, and I'd also venture not many people play Warhammer consistently and never buy new models.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866974.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5866974.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players mtg is expensive because you have to keep up with standard, and you can only keep up by buying multiple boxes just isn't true.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867030.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Other friends and I figured this out years ago (when the game was still in its infancy).

You start by tapping - so you may as well be tapping a keg.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867052.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867052.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players GW & WM/H , 40K / WHFB & LoTR ! - X-Box & Playstation , I could go on ...

Makes little sense to me ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867253.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867253.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867411.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867411.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
In fact, I've only been in one store where there was derision(most of them I've frequented had/have a cross pollination of players), and that one was from the YuGiOh players, not the Magic players. But then, they'd also leave the store a wreck and there were incidents of them stealing(wargaming stuff mostly), too, so they were just little knobs all around to begin with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867429.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867429.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players LGS (won't say FLGS) cards keep the lights on.

Minis wargames are allowed one evening a week, shared with a boardgame/RPG group.

Weekend gaming and the other week nights are for cards.
If you go in on a SAT or SUN and try to set up 40k, Hordes-Machine or anything that isn't the card game being played (usu. in tourney) you will be told to leave.

One new-to-the-scene minis player wanted to badger the owner about letting weekends be minis games, too. The very logical answer was when minis players spend as much as the couple hundred card players (not exaggerating) do on a weekend, then there's room for conversation.

Wouldn't say hate but the minis players are tolerated for what they do spend. Remoras on a shark's back.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867487.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867493.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867493.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
The MtG players are typically respectful. Like last weekend when they had a special release tourney on our 40k day. We had to end a little early, but they stayed upstairs and waited for us to finish. Plus the 2 who came early greeted us and played a match in an open area without bothering us or even asking us to move stuff.

So in short it isn't really the difference in games, but rather the personalities of the people (and if the judges encourage good relations).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867511.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

lord_blackfang wrote:
Locally, it's down to card games attracting all the stereotypical neckbearded manchildren who can't function in normal society.

Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.

Around here, I'd say it's a kneckbeard and kneckbeard race. A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.
On the other hand, we'd have groups in the wargaming crowd, we'd wonder about, also, that did some pretty foul things at the table. One guy brought in rotten, dripping Squash that he plunked down on the table to represent a Nurgle demon world.
To tell the truth, if these were the only type of people that played 40K, I never would have gotten into the game.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867530.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players IMO. Wargamers around here tend to be better socialized and diverse in their interests and can carry on a conversation about a wide range of topics, and are also more comfortable speaking to people that dont play wargames. Card gamers seem to really only be able to ever focus on their chosen card game and have trouble discussing other topics with the rest of humanity, they also dress oddly and occasionally (more often than not) smell bad. Also, they are dirty thieves (my FLGS has/had an issue with card gamers and product apparrently growing legs, and an even bigger issue with card gamers stealing from eachother... the biggest offenders were the YuGiOh crowd).

Note: im mostly being tongue in cheek about this, i could really care less about card gamers in general.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867597.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
this sums it up

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867631.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS. Mostly because we don't whine about prices, actually buy things, and keep the wargaming stuff organized and cleaned up.

Any animosity between the groups is pretty much created by the GW group being a bunch of dicks. They don't like outsiders, they will tolerate but that is about it. (not the whole group, just the major players in store politics)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867632.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867632.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Relapse wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:
Locally, it's down to card games attracting all the stereotypical neckbearded manchildren who can't function in normal society.

Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.

That's

gross, man. If a grown man peed himself at my table, I would have said "That's

disgusting." and left. Of course, I would also alert the person working at the store of the disgusting mess that was made while leaving. And there are plenty of better and less hazardous ways of representing a nurgle daemon world besides rotting food. These are prime examples of people that give card gamers and wargamers bad reps.

P.S.- I also enjoy playing both card games and wargames. So there is no bias based on preferences; just objective observations. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867652.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Ironwill13791 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Locally, it's down to card games attracting all the stereotypical neckbearded manchildren who can't function in normal society.

Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.

Around here, I'd say it's a kneckbeard and kneckbeard race. A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.
On the other hand, we'd have groups in the wargaming crowd, we'd wonder about, also, that did some pretty foul things at the table. One guy brought in rotten, dripping Squash that he plunked down on the table to represent a Nurgle demon world.
To tell the truth, if these were the only type of people that played 40K, I never would have gotten into the game.

That's

gross, man. If a grown man peed himself at my table, I would have said "That's

Yeah, it was pretty bad. My bud said at first he thought someone had spilled a soda but then realized there were no cups or cans at or around the table. The group that hung around the guy with the rotting veggies were once kicked out of the store and told to go home and take showers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867680.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867680.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867718.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Relapse wrote:

Ironwill13791 wrote:
Relapse wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Locally, it's down to card games attracting all the stereotypical neckbearded manchildren who can't function in normal society.

Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.

Around here, I'd say it's a kneckbeard and kneckbeard race. A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.
On the other hand, we'd have groups in the wargaming crowd, we'd wonder about, also, that did some pretty foul things at the table. One guy brought in rotten, dripping Squash that he plunked down on the table to represent a Nurgle demon world.
To tell the truth, if these were the only type of people that played 40K, I never would have gotten into the game.

That's gross, man. If a grown man peed himself at my table, I would have said "That's disgusting." and left. Of course, I would also alert the person working at the store of the disgusting mess that was made while leaving. And there are plenty of better and less hazardous ways of representing a nurgle daemon world besides rotting food. These are prime examples of people that give card gamers and wargamers bad reps.

P.S.- I also enjoy playing both card games and wargames. So there is no bias based on preferences; just objective observations.

Yep, hygiene, manners, and decency should come before gaming. I don't care how enthralling that match was it doesn't make it right to pee in your seat. Glad the store set some precedence by sending that group home.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867728.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867728.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Ironwill13791 wrote:
At our store, the only problems were with the yugioh players. While we are playing on the warhammer only tables, we have them glaring at us because they ran out of table space (which if all their stuff wasn't strewn about it wouldn't have been a problem). Their judge is walking around literally saying that he "runs this place" (not knowing I am the warhammer judge). And when we aren't there on sundays, our tables end moved, wrecked, dirty, and with copious amount of beverage rings.

Yu-Gi-Oh is the biggest offender, they are banned from any food or drink in our store. MtG I should amend to saying they tend to be nice, but their events get outta hand.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867741.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k and Magic can both get expensive depending on how far you get into it.

Anyways

I've been convincing the owner of the new FLGS(and longtime friend) to get some wargaming stuff in his store. The store stays open pretty much on Magic right now. When he first opened, I set aside 40k for a few months for Magic to help support him because he's my bud. Most everyone in the Store are open to playing 40k and Magic, after I showed them some stuff I had painted and did a couple demo games using Dark Vengance.

There is a couple of people who tried to convince the FLGS that 40k is too expensive(But then they go a buy a playset of Liliana of the Veil for about $130 online, which just went out of set this weekend) and there is no market for it here, but after I showed him the prices, he didn't think it was too expensive, and since, including myself, we have about 6 people looking to build armies.

So there's no real animosity here, but at the old LGS, everyone stayed on their side of the store. Wargamers had the front, Card players had the back.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867743.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k and there was a large MTG tournament going on across the store.

At one point they got a little loud so I said "Damn magic nerds."

Everyone laughed. We all enjoyed making jokes about playing with plastic men was cool but card games were the epitome of nerdom.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867769.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867769.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867784.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867784.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Relapse wrote:
A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.

That is incredible. While not as bad as yours I've got a story too. I went to the store to get something, and there were Magic players there. One of them lifted one ass cheek from the chair, stuck his hand down his pants, farted, took his hand out and smelled it. I was amazed. No one else was, though. They just kept playing like anything.

As for card players versus wargamers we don't really have that at my store. There's a cool atmosphere between everyone.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867799.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

fishy bob wrote:

Relapse wrote:
A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.

That is vile and easily in the same ball park as what I wrote.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867812.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867812.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Subsequently, the Magic crowd had no hesitation in going in their own direction when it suited them, when the broader view would perhaps have suggested that sticking with the tabletop players and maintaining a larger player pool would have put the group's future in less jeopardy, so, yeah, while a few players are good friends, collectively card gamers are not my favourite group. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867836.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players mtg standard tourney scene. after seeing what it would take to keep playing(back in 04) I stopped buying for that format. My friends and I still play, but it's all legacy. I love the format, it's casual and not too broken.

I still play magic, D&D, boardgames and 40k. As long as people have fun so do I. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867866.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867866.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Relapse wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Relapse wrote:
A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.

That is incredible. While not as bad as yours I've got a story too. I went to the store to get something, and there were Magic players there. One of them lifted one ass cheek from the chair, stuck his hand down his pants, farted, took his hand out and smelled it. I was amazed. No one else was, though. They just kept playing like anything.

As for card players versus wargamers we don't really have that at my store. There's a cool atmosphere between everyone.

That is vile and easily in the same ball park as what I wrote.

I agree with you Relapse.

At my computer I laughed on how primitive it is, but in real life I would be disgusted. (America's Funniest Home Videos had the monkey that scratched its ass and sniffed it. Then it threw itself back out of the tree from the smell. That is what made me laugh; the comparison. I guess that evolution thing has it merits. Hahahaha). But seriously, that is a serious risk of pink eye, e coli, etc. That is a health risk]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867900.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867900.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

j_p_chess wrote:
gents,

this sums it up

/thread.

'Animosity' between CCG and TTG players comes from the same made up bs that gives us the occasional threads like, 'why are all FB players like _this,_ but 40K players like _that?_' The even more amusing, 'Why do PP players rock, while all GW players suck?' or even things like the guy who wears a jedi robe and plastic light saber to the latest Stars Wars showing pointing at the guy with a federation uniform and phaser at the Star Trek movie and calling him a loser. The historical gamers who think if your game doesn't have units painted straight out of the history books, then you probably use your fingers when doing simple math.

Or for those of you who remember the console wars, 'Sega does what Nintendon't.'

It's a completely artificial conflict created because people like being part of a group, and that generally includes coming up with how you're better than X group over there. You don't see it happen to often, but there have been some deliciously ironic threads of gameshop complaints, where we got to hear about how awesome all wargamers are, so why should they have to put up with those mouth-breathing, awful, socially maladjusted pen and paper RPG players?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867980.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5867980.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Ironwill13791 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
fishy bob wrote:
Relapse wrote:
A friend of mine who worked a a LFGS was running the cash register when a 20 something Magic player peed himself, creating a puddle of water under the table. The guy was going to just keep playing because he did not want to leave the game. The rest at the table didn't seem to mind.

That is incredible. While not as bad as yours I've got a story too. I went to the store to get something, and there were Magic players there. One of them lifted one ass cheek from the chair, stuck his hand down his pants, farted, took his hand out and smelled it. I was amazed. No one else was, though. They just kept playing like anything.

As for card players versus wargamers we don't really have that at my store. There's a cool atmosphere between everyone.

That is vile and easily in the same ball park as what I wrote.

This is why I don't shake hands with people in game stores I don't know.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868143.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868143.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players CG and 40k players. It was mainly the older 40k crowd talking about how horrible Yu Gi Oh crowed was. Stuff like how they had heard of the Yu Gi Oh players stealing from each other, rumors of stores being broken into and only thing being stolen was Yu Gi Oh cards and money, complaining that the CCG players smelled, etc. I honestly don't know if those Yu Gi Oh players actually did any of that or if it was just rumors. I never went to check that out myself.

There was occasionally issues at that store mainly because it was the only gaming store around with space to play that didn't require you to travel. The owner also would schedule multiple events in the back room which meant it could get very crowed back there, and 40k players would take a lot of space (one game of 40k per table vs. 3 games of magic). So general tension there was people stepping on each others stuff, backing into each other sense the area between the tables was very small, etc. Also when there where mutilpile events going on in the back room (where 90% o the gaming space was) it got very warm as well and if anyone had bad BO it would get rather bad.

The store I go to now there doesn't seem to much animosity at all, I have been in several times where both wargame players and CCG players are there and both groups generally keep to themselves. This store has a much more wide open gaming space though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868204.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
It really boils down to that people like to specialize so people from different groups quite literally have nothing to say to each other.

Being a nerd in some field is to know all kinds of strange facts about something.
If your audience has no knowledge of your specialty, you cannot show off or at least get into a cool debate. (where is the fun in that?

)

Entry into these groups can get interesting since the "newb" jokes can get a little rough.
Just asking starting questions are viewed as "stupid" so then the animosity starts.

My personal beef with card players is many cannot shuffle in a way that puts your mind at ease on cheating (Play more poker in your off time!).
I swear they need a Las Vegas card shuffler to keep them honest.
It is like the "natural rolling" skill being used in 40k: dice towers are good to have.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868206.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bookwrack wrote:

j_p_chess wrote:
gents,

this sums it up

Pretty much this. A good example is the recent palaver with the new consoles - I had to spend a solid 50% of my posts on a gaming site reinforcing the fact that I own a 360 just so that I could give an honest opinion on the XBox 180(arf arf

) without being labelled a "Sony fanboy"

I've never really had any awful experiences with card gamers, me and a buddy played Magic for a while in our early teens just against each other, it was fun enough, I just didn't enjoy the overt, even aggressive competitiveness on show at the events so I stopped.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868330.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
It's all a bit silly, really.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868582.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS, the magic people are the ones who pay the rent. War gamers are usually the deadbeat friend who sleeps on your couch and does his laundry at your place and eats your food and then says "hey, I contribute! I ordered Chinese and totally left you half a container of fried rice in your fridge!"

Card gamers know this, and are told frequently by store owners that they are the more important customer, so they look down on war gamers.

And both groups look down on RPG gamers who literally buy nothing at FLGS.

Since table space is a premium, and the groups compete over them, and the group who buys more gets the space during premium times, there is animosity.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868744.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868744.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
i had more fun playing either magic or dungeons and dragons. GW games had their moments but ultimetly it was the bad rules that always let it down.

GW is alot of money and effort for subpar game play. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868804.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS has this problem. We are also fortunate to have a FLGS that has ample table space to handle an MTG release while hosting a 40/WM/FoW tournament. Although it did get crowded that one Saturday where there was an MTG event, a Heroclix event, and a 40k event. That day was crazy. I suppose we are also fortunate in having several people like myself that play both card games and war games.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868815.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS. If anything though theres a bit of jealousy from the wargamers as there are actual girls who play magic from time to time.

Balances out though most of the dudes who play it are fething gross.

I just play both and get the best of both worlds, don't know why it has to be either/or.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868839.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868839.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k and various RPGs I believe the game cost is not a issue.
The guy who drops $1k in cards usually sell a lot of then back and keep just what is needed for collection, gaming or both.
The same is true for models in ebay and old rpg rulebooks.

That said, the animosity found in my area is between different card games or rpg. Yugioh vs Magic or D&D vs WOD. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868917.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868917.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5868990.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players MTG and 40k and I have never noticed any animosity. Really it just depends on the people and how much they need to boost their self esteem, because that's really all the insulting between various geeky factions is, ego-boosting.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869091.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I see it, mainly because Magic players are by far the most rudest people there are at my Game store. Occasionaly we get straddles with the when out tourneys and some pre-release comes outs, but it SUCKs they take up so much space when they dont need it, they are loud and yell to extremes. Even worse is the damn whining I always hear from them about how wargamers get special treatment.

Similar to this, to the store where i used to go in Holland, It were the young ones, no problem with the older card gamers, In Japan it is very different]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869154.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
That said I've known a couple of serious card gamers during my time at uni and found them both to be pretty good guys, no hygene problems, polite and functioned normally. The only thing I noticed is where myself and my gaming group treat our wargaming as almost a dirty little secret, these guys would tell anyone and everyone who would listen about their card games. Each to their own!

I have happened to walk into a MTG day at my FLGS on a hot australian weekend and been hit with that ungodly stench but honestly any small sized, unconditioned room, filled with men on a sat afternoon is bound to stink to high heaven regardless of who's in there.

When I have pulled out an army at the store, I've had several of the MTG guys come and ask questions about the painting and techniques used and they've been nothing but polite. Even asking before they picked anything up, and I've seen nothing of the dreaded cheetos fingers I seem to hear about all the time.

No Animosity from me!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869297.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869297.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS, we mostly ignore each other, just like golf and tennis players would.

In regards to card pricing though, I will say this. Even though you can play magic for cheaper (?) I don't think that you get the same value for money. eg. I don't think forty or so cheaply printed cards are really worth the same amount as twenty 3d models. Just my opinion, of course.

Locally, it's down to card games attracting all the stereotypical neckbearded manchildren who can't function in normal society.

Most of the players are perfectly fine, of course, but all the real rotten eggs gravitate towards card games, leaving the rest untainted.

Do you honestly believe this? Because that's some pretty harsh stereotyping.

In my experience the weirdos are equal divided amongst the two groups.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869702.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869702.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players -Zapp Brannigan]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869986.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5869986.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

There is a couple of people who tried to convince the FLGS that 40k is too expensive(But then they go a buy a playset of Liliana of the Veil for about $130 online, which just went out of set this weekend) and there is no market for it here, but after I showed him the prices, he didn't think it was too expensive, and since, including myself, we have about 6 people looking to build armies.

What does "out of set" mean? If you mean Standard, nope. It doesn't rotate out until Theros drops in October. And it's still an absolute powerhouse in modern, so those cards will retain most of their value, if not go up over time since they are out of print (like Jace the Mind Sculptor did)

As a guy who both plays Magic and 40K, I can tell you that 40K costs more in the long term, if you place a price on variety.

If you drop several hundred on a GW army, you're pretty much stuck with it. Unless you're an excellent painter, that army will lose value due to your assembly and painting of it. Magic cards in the meantime often retain much of their value after standard rotation due to eternal/casual formats. The explosion in popularity of Commander/EDH formats especially has boosted the value of many cards that would otherwise have been junk.

Personally, Commander Magic is my jam. I absolutey love it. I'm a big fan of dropping $75-$125 on a 100 card deck and knowing that I can get most of that value back if I ever need to sell it. I actually have decks that have increased in value while I've had them. And if I get sick of that deck, I can just make a new one using some of the cards I already own.

Meanwhile, I got tired of the massive Space Wolves army I had spent over $1000 on. I was able to resell it for a little over $400. I've been builiding Dark Eldar and I've already dropped about $400 and I probably have at least $250 to go. And if I end up not fancying them it's not like I can just try a new army without a huge cash investment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870040.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players MtG competitively from 1996-2000 while simultaneously playing 40K and Warhammer Fantasy. I still play 40K and have dropped all collectible versions of gaming.

Also, I have noticed that there is huge animosity at conventions between the gamers (of all kinds) and anime fans/cosplayers. I have no idea what this is about, but I keep seeing it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870048.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

ADHD and poor social skills=SE in this case. I'm not hating on people with legit disabilities. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870276.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5870276.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5872103.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5872103.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players GW, PP, D&D, 3.5 etc) is because many of us started when we had no money. The only reason I play Paladium system RPG's, Pathfinder RPG and Warmahordes is because I was raised as a second gen gamer. Paladium/Rifts, D&D 2nd ed, plastic models, and minis were part of my life since birth. If I had gotten into any of the systems on my own in high school I would be a fan of Pathfinder (3.5 continued) or 40k not both. I couldn't have afforded a small Chaos and Khador armies and Pathfinder if my parents weren't gamers. By the time I showed a real interest they had trained the grandparents and understood.

Currently one of my friends who got into 40K just before high-school can barely afford his Cryx army. The only reason he's interested in RPG's is because I corrupted him and provide access to the books. He also wants to get into Magic but can't due to the price and his competitive nature meaning he wants to do tournaments. If he didn't have multiple friends into each game I doubt he would have left 40K. also if we didn't game with 30 somethings with money and other second gen gamers we wouldn't have such a wide interest in gaming.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5872998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5872998.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players rpg stuff.

Nowadays, the only reason I'm still playing two miniatures games is that I never got rid of my stuff when I stopped playing the first time.

I just game on a smaller scale nowadays. I prefer skirmish level gaming to mass battle, anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873150.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players TCG are the far more competitive game. I used to play Magic at a low competitive level and still know a few successful guys...compared to TCG, Warhammer is a bad joke. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873308.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players TG was conceived as a competitive game.

Warhams wasn't.

It's not a very good tournament ruleset (it's not a very good ruleset in general). It's not suited to the job.

It's like running your dog in the Grand National.
I don't care if your dog IS a greyhound, and races normally.
It's still not suited to the GN - which is a HORSE race.

We did have some m:tg players come into my club and try warhams. They insisted that the game was "keep what you kill" (because they did that with their cards).

When we tried to inform them of the wrongness of this mindset, they left and didn't return. We didn't consider it a great loss, to be honest.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873394.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873397.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873397.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
The way we normally handled that sort of crap when I did use to game in a store (it was friday night rpgs - not minis. ) was to use the phrase "The grownups here are trying to play a game. Please be quiet, children - and stop being annoying."

Yes, quite a few of them were over 18.

But most of us were over 30. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873443.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873443.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Yeah, I get that.

The way we normally handled that sort of crap when I did use to game in a store (it was friday night rpgs - not minis. ) was to use the phrase "The grownups here are trying to play a game. Please be quiet, children - and stop being annoying."

Yes, quite a few of them were over 18.

But most of us were over 30.

Yeah, I'm with you. I just don't get why people look down on others. Sure, gaming space might be a problem, but I don't get why people think they're somehow "better" than others just because their system is more competitive than another...not to mention that most of these people aren't competitive players anyway...anyhow, that's why gaming clubs are awesome

Sure, gotta pay the rent, but it really, really pays off. I'd describe it as a "light" competitive atmosphere and the average age goes up by a lot - which is a really good thing. I'm in my late 20s and am slightly older than the average. That'd be my best advice to everyone: try to gather a bigger group of people you want to play with (or join one!) and rent an appartment to use as a gaming club.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873470.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873470.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k and Dungeons and Dragons. They occasionally spout opinions that their chosen systems are the best, but most of them are 18 or younger so it's just glossed over.

The rest of us play LCGs competitively and dabble in everything minis wise from historicals to sci fi. There is however a tendency to look down upon GW and PP for some reason.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873484.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Whether it's a church hall, scout hall, pub or whatever. Gets it out of a store environment.

My 2 clubs BOTH do this (yeah, I'm greedy

).

As to why GW and PP are looked down upon ...

GW was looked down upon in the late 80s (by the old schooler historicals crowd) - nothing much has changed there - except it has got a higher profile. They have their own stores (in the late 80s, there WEREN'T any GW stores here).

The card players are just taking up the mantle.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873524.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873524.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Card take up almost no shelf space, card gamers don't take up much table space, awesome. Every LGS should sell them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873742.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Leigen_Zero wrote:'Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things.'
-Zapp Brannigan

Best post in the thread!

Sigvatr wrote:To be fair, though, TCG are the far more competitive game. I used to play Magic at a low competitive level and still know a few successful guys...compared to TCG, Warhammer is a bad joke.

The level of game design that goes into MTG makes GW's games look rather lazy. MTG needs to be usable by competitive players, by casual players and it needs to support multiple formats (Standard, Legacy, Vintage, Cube, Draft, Sealed, EDH, etc.,) for both casual and competitive approaches and every release needs to have stuff for everyone of those approaches.

There's a reason gaming stores often easily have their revenue mostly come from TCGs. Then there are the practical issues:

scarletsquig wrote:Card gamers are great, they bring in the money so that a store selling wargames, or a club can continue to trade.

Card take up almost no shelf space, card gamers don't take up much table space, awesome. Every LGS should sell them.

TGC offer local stores a better return on capital for the inventory as the margins are usually a few percent better than GW's direct trade contracts. They also allow more gaming per square footage/metres of store space. They also take less shelf space. As far as gaming products go, they make so much more sense than miniature gaming.

I used to look down on TCG players for paying lots of money for printed cardboard, but I'm not really any different. Cast metal or plastic isn't inherently more valuable. And the actual thought that goes into game design for MTG is just astounding. It's used as case studies at institutions like MIT, for example.

I've found that there's an equal range of socially inept people in the population of both MTG players and GW's customers. I think pointing at the player base and making disparaging remarks is both hypocrisy and evidence of confirmation bias. The fact of the matter is that if you play at a local store that also runs MTG stuff, it's entirely likely that it's the MTG that keeps the doors open, not the GW product sales.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5873990.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

ChaoticMind wrote:
Personally I think the reason people get so attached to one or two "systems" (Magic, GW, PP, D&D, 3.5 etc) is because many of us started when we had no money. The only reason I play Paladium system RPG's, Pathfinder RPG and Warmahordes is because I was raised as a second gen gamer. Paladium/Rifts, D&D 2nd ed, plastic models, and minis were part of my life since birth. If I had gotten into any of the systems on my own in high school I would be a fan of Pathfinder (3.5 continued) or 40k not both. I couldn't have afforded a small Chaos and Khador armies and Pathfinder if my parents weren't gamers. By the time I showed a real interest they had trained the grandparents and understood.

I do pathfinder, 40k AND war machine.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I think alot of the animosity comes from things where card players get special treatment. Over here all the good time slots, AKA weekend nights, are taken up by card players. We 40k players get 6 o'clock on mondays and have to share it with board game players(They are great people that that are nice but it kinda sucks because sometimes we have to leave people out)
WM/Hordes gets wednesday night from 3-7 and even odder time. Games that take at most 30 minutes like CG should nt take up the best time slots IMO]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5874075.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5874075.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players LGS 40k night and Magic night coincide (this is because the number of 40k players is relatively low, and the shop owner pretty much only stays open beyond hours on the Friday night Magic night. The big problem that most of us 40kers (with me being fairly much retired from the game), was not the game itself, it was the damn kids playing it....

I had a group of hoodlums literally running through the 40k area, wrestling around, pulling on each others shirts and whatnot, nearly crashing into all 3 tables where 40k games were going on (somehow they missed them... else the police would have to have been called). After some of us more adult types got onto them about their behavior, while waiting for their next matches, they hovered near the table where my game was being played, and they were making ridiculously stupid comments about Halo vs. some other video game (I was using my Plaguemarine army against a Tau army)

If not for the behavior of so many certain people, I wouldn't have a problem with the "other crowd" In fact, one of my good buddies when I was stationed in Germany played exclusively magic, and we got on quite well because we each saw the others hobby for what it was: a fun game to be enjoyed by those who wished to enjoy it, and not an activity to be forced onto other people. Him and I didnt have a "My game is better than yours" type of attitude about our respective games, which in more public places definitely draws some undesired attention.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877509.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877509.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

scarletsquig wrote:
Card gamers are great, they bring in the money so that a store selling wargames, or a club can continue to trade.

Card take up almost no shelf space, card gamers don't take up much table space, awesome. Every LGS should sell them.

This is always my take on the card gamers...

Alfndrate wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:
One of my friends showed up to the game store I used to work at and suggested to another guy and me that the owner needed to start putting bars of soap in the prize bag for Magic tournaments. A Magic player came down as soon as he left, flew into a rage and swore to beat the crap out of him if he ever said something like that again. The owner then agreed with the Magic player and said that the local cop who works out at the YMCA before gaming and the smokers all smell worse than the non-bathers. It's truly pathetic. We didn't have any gaming funk WH players, but 90% of the M:tG players smelled after an hour of sitting.

The issue I'm seeing with what the store owner said revolves around the fact that Magic players keep the lights on and the doors open. These are people that will spend just randomly 20 bucks at the chance they get a single card. Then they do this for a few months, and when a new set drops they spend 25 to 50 bucks at pre-release, and then at least a hundred bucks on release night hoping to get the cards they need... That's more money in the store owner's pocket. And a 6x4 table can hold more MTG players than it will 40k/WHFB/WM/Malifaux/Infinity/etc... I mean assume that a player spends 50 dollars a month on tournaments and single booster packs, and then once every four months drops 150 dollars on fat packs, tournaments, and single boosters. In a single year, that 1 player will spend 900 dollars on JUST boosters, tournaments, and fat packs. I mean you can add in more money for buying singles from the store, and you're breaking a thousand dollars per magic player with ease. I know my store has at least 15 magic players that spend that kind of money in a year, and another 10 that spend maybe half that. So that's 22,500 in a year. While I have no numbers to back this up, simply my observations, the links here, here, and here suggest that I might not be too far off the mark .

So if you've got 22 grand coming into your store (not profit), and your 10 wargamers spend maybe 500 dollars each in a year at your store, then who are you going to cater to? The people that bring more money or less money into your store?

As disgusting as we may find some magic players, they help keep our stores open so we can continue to play. I realize I was deriding them a few posts ago, but I'm not a store owner, I don't have to cater to the magic players. Not saying I agree with that store owner, simply staying as to why he may have said what he said.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877522.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877522.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Funnily enough, I did and even do consider Warhammer a vastly more expensive hobby, but that's because I play casually, so dropping $20 on cards might allow me to create a new deck, as compared to deciding I want to try building a ______ army and finding that $20 won't even get me a first unit.

This is said as someone who owns a sizable and fairly valuable collection; sure it's been a cash sink over the years, but it's only as expensive as you want to make it. Play pauper with your friends and you can build decks for pocket change. Play competitive Standard or Vintage/Legacy and you could be spending thousands or more to build a deck.

Personally, by the time my crew let Magic settle into the background again, I was loving the Commander style of play, and still have 18 decks sleeved up and ready to go, along with a gigantic rubbermaid bin where I keep the various cardboard storage boxes and binders the rest of my collection fits in.

I imagine part of my separation from the issue is that I've never been a 'store player' for either genre. I played Magic with friends out of town around a dining room table, and I play Malifaux on that same table (and others). Age demographics are kind of a moot point when every person who sits down to play has been vetted, either personally (by being a friend for years and year) or by one of those friends.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877529.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Its like the animosity between the Royal Marines and the Parachute Regiment, sure they have a friendly rivalry at times, but deep down THE ROYAL MARINES ARE MUCH BETTER THAN THOSE BLOODY JESSIES. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877986.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5877986.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS I play at. I don't go there much because of them.

The RPG creatures aren't much better. One of them was talking about having sex with the devil the last time I was in there. If I had my kids with me, I would have threw a fit.

Not sure why social retardation, gross obesity, and general rudeness come along with these games. Personally, I won't have anything to do with it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878040.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players RP when I get the chance.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878078.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

dlight wrote:
Yui Gi Oh and Heroclix players are pretty nasty at the FLGS I play at. I don't go there much because of them.

The RPG creatures aren't much better. One of them was talking about having sex with the devil the last time I was in there. If I had my kids with me, I would have threw a fit.

Not sure why social retardation, gross obesity, and general rudeness come along with these games. Personally, I won't have anything to do with it.

But the 40K players are all groovy dudes and dudettes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878144.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878144.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878160.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878179.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
As for why I play 40k, it's for the randomness, because I like some of the fluff and stuffs. Also I can buy a model from 1989 and use it today legally.

Don't get me wrong, there are good magic players, the kind you would like to hang out with. Then there are the others, that you both hate and spray with frabreeze. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878189.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

juraigamer wrote:
Just the fact that you can buy cards that you later cannot use legally was enough for me to quit magic after a few months. Also magic players tend to smell.

Nothing prevents you from playing your friends with your old cards, there are also different playstyles that have different legal cards. There's standard which is the currently released block set, the set before it, and the core set of that year (on average). So like right now the Innistrad block is legal (the set before), Core 2013 (the core set of last year), and Return to Ravnica (the currently released block). As of last week, Core 2014 has been released and is also legal. Innistrad and Core 2013 won't rotate out of Standard until October. Then you have Modern which is every set from 8th Edition to Core 2014 which are sets from up to 10 years ago. Then there is Vintage and Legacy which are basically "everything goes" with a few things here or there. To stay standard legal yes, you have to change some cards every 18 months, but they reprint cards so many times or it doesn't really matter. The easiest example I can think of? the Shock card, I've got that card from like editions older than some of the kids I play and it's still perfectly legal since it's been reprinted.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878342.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878342.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Over here RPG gamers are the most well adjusted group in the bunch, nearly all of them have GF/BF/Wife/Husband. They are the most respectful, they help actually take the garbage out when it is done.
Yu-gi-oh players on the other hand will actually rip up cards and use them as confetti. Magic players are good here for the most part, now if only they didnt try to anex our times for themselves.
Let me put it this way about yu-gi-oh. Awhile back when we had 4 players a night at 40k we where not sharing with board game night. Board game night shared with pathfinder. but PF exploded in popularity. so Boardgame night had to be moved. one of two things would happen. Board game night wuld share with us, or we would with yu-gi-oh.
the owner was considering the latter. Everyone said no, bad plan, 40k players would not put up with yu-gi-oh players crud.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878758.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878758.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878790.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5878790.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5885026.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5885026.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Yes, but M:TG was conceived as a competitive game.

Warhams wasn't.

That's not right. They didn't seem to clearly conceive mtg as anything, not a competitive game or with any particular ideas of who would be playing it. If they'd understood that it was going to be hugely successful and played in a competitive manner they wouldn't have filled the game with grossly overpowered cards and stupid things like 'Chaos Orb' meaning that large numbers of cards had to be removed from use to make the game competitive and balanced. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5885288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5885288.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
They INSIST that it was because Magic:the holy cash-cow was conceived as a tournament game that it's a superior game.

I've never played it and never had any desire to try it.
In hindsight, I only played 40k because my mates did, too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886261.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886261.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players MTG, I think the highest I would rate any miniature game in terms of game design is "mediocre at best." It's really amazing how it's been thought out and how they support so many types of play with the same release.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886823.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
However, I do think it's fair to say that they made a concerted effort to streamline the rules and make a very, VERY thorough and comprehensive ruleset that covers a simply staggering amount of options, and allows for massive design space that let's them create some incredibly intricate combinations year after year, and let's a truly boggling number of interactions work with a tiny margin for error, as long as you grasp the basics needed to get there (such as 'the stack'). I think that was around 6th Edition, which was still quite some time ago, and improvements continue to be made.

The use of keywords and a searchable database maintained with all cards, rules, and even a comments section which generally naturally builds into a kind of FAQ for individual cards and interactions only adds to the amazing work they've done.

... yes I'm a fan, why do you ask? >.>

I'm actually kind of disappointed my regular crew fell apart over the years, due to distance, funding (even casual play can catch up, and even a small collection can be worth some cash when you've got bills to pay), but I've yet to part with the giant bin or the 18 sleeved EDH decks I've got on hand. Always nice to throw down for an afternoon now and then.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5886844.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
I don't think the division comes from the games people are playing because poor behavior occurs in every circle. It does tend to happen less frequently with the older players as they've had more time to mature. But there are also always exceptions and I'm sure there's a case or two where an old gamer does something horrible.

But IMO the worst behavior tends to come from the younger gamers who haven't figured out what is acceptable public behavior or they act inappropriately on purpose to get a reaction out of other people.

A good store owner will put an end to such behavior as it creates a very negative atmosphere for everyone else. I think its also in everybody's best interest to speak up when somebody is behaving in an unacceptable manner. If another gamer is being obnoxious call them out on it (in a polite manner) Make them aware that their behavior is offending people and ask them to stop doing it. Also take it to the store owner or manager as they certainly wouldn't want a single misfit individual driving away the larger customer base.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887102.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Then I've been misled by the card playing mob.

They INSIST that it was because Magic:the holy cash-cow was conceived as a tournament game that it's a superior game.

It's the other way around, I think they were shocked that it so quickly became a cash cow so took steps to sort it out and make it into a more structured competitive game. The early sets flew off the shelves, then they started printing a lot more and sorted out the balance issues in the game. This is the reason that things like Black Lotus were banned, they were just too easy to exploit to get crude first turn winning combos. Chaos Orb is too daft for a serious card game. That's the one where you flick it onto the table, and whatever it lands on is destroyed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887145.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887145.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players I have played magic since about 2000 and WH 40k since Rouge Trader. Both are fun. I have never seen animosity but at my home town shop i have felt a bit left out when everyone was playing magic and i just wanted to get in a game of 40k. Its understandable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887147.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887315.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887315.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players flgs he makes almost no eye contact with anyone, doesn't look at anything and if i don't get my butt of that chair real fast, he's gonna be angry. The real quiet kinda angry.
(he has began to go to some magic pre-releases lately if he can, and plays chess regularly just so you know)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887342.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887342.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS, a bunch of gamers and I would ambush the game store with "friday night apoc" which was kicked off about three or two hours before "friday night magic". I fondly remember hateful looks we would get as we took up 3 tables, shouted waaagh, bellowed orders, dramatically acted out some heroic moments and chased dice all over the place as they rolled off the table. the more satisfying part is when we converted some people over to the wargaming side.

fickle card gamers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887354.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS, the divide is nearly non-existent, and both wargamers and tcg folks get along fine, many of whom are both.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887357.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k player who is getting into Warmachine. Also played a little magic (i.e. one Innistrad draft put on by my university RPG club because some of them liked it and I wanted to see how it played. Opened a Snapcaster Mage in my first booster pack ever...I took that as a sign I should quit while I was ahead). Still have my deck in a drawer at home.

I've been pretty lucky I guess because at the game store I go to the card game presence consists of about 8 grade school kids with an adult present playing magic on a folding table on the far side of the room.

I'm sometimes tempted to play Magic, although I don't think I'd want to keep updating my collections to play standard. If I had a group of friends who just played with whatever cards we had then I'd roll with it for sure. Always wanted to play blue/black infect/control with all kinds of Phyrexian nonsense thrown about. For some reason Phyrexia is my favorite faction.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5887394.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

So what you're saying is, you're insufferable?

I worked in a gaming store for a while in summers in college. The card gamers were grubby kids who stank like sweat and dirt. The wargamers were grown ass men who smelled like sour milk. One is more forgivable than the other IMO. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890654.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890654.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Then I've been misled by the card playing mob.

They INSIST that it was because Magic:the holy cash-cow was conceived as a tournament game that it's a superior game.

I've never played it and never had any desire to try it.
In hindsight, I only played 40k because my mates did, too.

IIRC, the original motivation for MTG was for an easily portable game for people to play when they were queuing at Cons, or had downtime between rounds at tourneys of other games.

It appears to be either human nature, or gamer nature, that if something is popular we have to decide who is best at it (even if its hopelessly ill suited to it.) It goes to WOTC credit that they very quickly saw the opportunity to grow their game exponentially and started supporting competitive play. There were even professionals at one point, but I haven't played in more than a decade, do those guys still exist?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890679.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890679.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Howard A Treesong wrote:

chromedog wrote:
Then I've been misled by the card playing mob.

They INSIST that it was because Magic:the holy cash-cow was conceived as a tournament game that it's a superior game.

Magic got its gak down pretty fast. It was pretty lean and mean competitively by Legends. Warham still hasn't managed to accomplish this. so you have like maybe 2 years of scattershot design, and then they began tightening things up.

Black lotus wasn't banned. It was restricted (one per deck) in type 1. Its set rotated out, but you can toss in Raging River, False Orders and other crud like that in as well. Chaos Orb was never restricted, being a general crappy card that suffers from poor design (player dexterity requirement).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5890699.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

azreal13 wrote:
do those guys still exist?

Yes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5891202.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5891202.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

azreal13 wrote:

do those guys still exist?

Yes. The Japanese are still beating everyone's collective asses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5893689.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5893689.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FLGS most of the card players are younger(8-20) where most of the mini wargamers are a little older so there is the age divide. For the most part though CCG players are a disgusting and obnoxious lot, they all look like Salacious Crumb and smell like the inside of a fake leg. They waste table space that would be better used for hot Space Marine on Space Marine action.*

I am totally joking in case it was not clear.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898393.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898393.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

So what you're saying is, you're insufferable?

No, we just treated them like fans of one sport treat fans of another sport. Y'know - cuz it's a 'tribal' thing. Even when humanity outgrew the whole 'tribal' thing and went to cities and industrialisation, we still cling to little "tribal" groups - like fans of sporting teams.

But to most people under 30, yes - I suppose I would seem to be insufferable. However, to those of us over 40 - younger people don't SEEM insufferable, they just ARE.
(and we generally don't care what they think about it, either.).

We're old enough to know better and young enough to not give a frak about it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898715.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898715.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Of course one "sport" is going to feel more entitled to the stadium to the other, and feel the other "sport" deserves less respect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5898985.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5899688.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5899688.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Those fans are still not going to like each other.

Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

Would you say your disparaging remarks are worthy of respect?

"The grownups here are trying to play a game. Please be quiet, children - and stop being annoying."

When I practiced judo I didn't dislike the badminton players who ensured the viabliltiy of the hall we practiced in. Should I feel the need to make belive they didn't exist?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5899808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5899808.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

chromedog wrote:
Those fans are still not going to like each other.

Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

The thing is you can't co-exist in your own little worlds because 95% of the time, you have to coexist in the Same world, and there is competition for table space, gaming time and general breathing air.

We have a problem in our area where there is rec softball which people pay lots of money to play in and authorizes the use of the fields almost every weekday from 6-10pm. The cost of our fees maintain the fields and pay the umps. Literally thousands of people play in these leagues. And every time, we have people setting up cones and trying to play soccer on the baseball fields while our game is going on. They want to play soccer and feel we should all share, which is impossible when all of right field has 20 people playing soccer. Of course there isn't much we can do, the park police can shoo them away, and often does, but they see it as "we were here first" and don't care if we pay to keep the grass mowed or reserved the field.

Soccer players hate baseball because they feel we are entitled to the tables and look down upon them for using our space and being rude.

Baseball players hate socket because we are the reason the park is maintained, we reserved the fields via our payments and have the right to be there when they do not.

How can these groups possibly co-exist? It happens with lots of dirty looks and cross words.

The issue is war gamers are the soccer players most times because MTG pays for the "fields" we play on. If we don't respect that, then we are the ungrateful trespassers in most situations. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900024.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

nkelsch wrote:
The issue is war gamers are the soccer players most times because MTG pays for the "fields" we play on. If we don't respect that, then we are the ungrateful trespassers in most situations.

I have said this before, in this very same thread

Spoiler:

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900082.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900082.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
As noted before, I was a very regular Magic player, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't occasionally sit down across from someone who probably should've spent more (or any) time in the tub that morning at a pre-release or two. Hopefully it's less of an issue at the higher tiers of play, but I was never on the PTQ circuit so I wouldn't know.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900332.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Forar wrote:
let's not forget that an 'unfortunate absence of showers' occurs in every genre of the nerd spectrum.

Sadly, this is very true.

nkelsch wrote:

How can these groups possibly co-exist? It happens with lots of dirty looks and cross words.

The issue is war gamers are the soccer players most times because MTG pays for the "fields" we play on. If we don't respect that, then we are the ungrateful trespassers in most situations.

This is a good summary, nkelsch. A life-lesson, even.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900347.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
As I grew older I switched over to tabletop as the hobby section of the game fools me into believing I'm not being a young nerdy gamer anymore. :-P]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900434.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5900434.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901435.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901435.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bat Manuel wrote:

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows.

Because the card sleeve and playmat market doesn't exist

They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

This isn't true... I've seen people spend just as much time constructing a decklist as we sit here and construct our armylists. Some of it (like in my case) boils down to what cards I have and what is effective. Sure there are people that will buy the cards they need for a deck. Thanks to working with Sasori I dropped 20 bucks on some cards to help bump up the power of the deck I'm currently working on, a deck I had spent 10 dollars on (it was about half of what I pulled from boosters). But there are just as many people that will buy the pieces for a Necron Air Force list, or a Nurgle Army with 2 to 3 Heldrakes and then pay to have them assembled and painted so they can use them in tournaments (if they care that much). Your issue is with people that haven't learned how to take care of their stuff, it's not just relegated to card gamers.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901457.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901457.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

This blanket statement just isn't true. I was a card gamer (Decipher's Star Wars CCG) long before I even knew what WH40k was. My group, and the FLGS I played in, all took care of their cards and treated each other with respect.

It might be true of your game store, but can't be applied universally.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901494.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901494.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
And yes, I was one of those people. To finetune a deck you need to spend hours playtesting it both online and in real life. Even if you netdeck (basically copy a winning deck online) you still need to finetune the deck to your playstyle, preference and meta. Not to mention getting used to the deck and knowing the ins and outs (when to mulligan, when to keep your cards, how many lands you need theoretically for the deck to function properly, how good your deck is on certain matchups, what to sideboard on certain matchups, the lists are endless) which means hours more of playing.

They don't care about what they own? Some cards are worth a lot (hello Black Lotus!) and a scratch can reduce its price by 25-50%. So naturally you should put them in really thick sleeves. And preferably away from people who can steal them. You'll also notice that most players put their cards inside card sleeves to, call me crazy, but I think they use card sleeves to protect their cards. Fancy that.

It's really insulting and if I may say so, more than a bit ignorant, to state that card gamers don't care for their stuff and don't invest time on what they play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901517.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901517.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q1dgn_C0AU]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901552.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

nkelsch wrote:

chromedog wrote:
Those fans are still not going to like each other.

Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

So just because you pay for it means only you can use it? god i thought we all learned about sharing in flipping kindergerden.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901590.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901590.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So just because you pay for it means only you can use it? god i thought we all learned about sharing in flipping kindergerden.

We did, but you generally don't just take stuff someone else paid for without some sort of agreement prior to you taking it. That's called mooching. And no one likes a fething mooch.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901607.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:

So just because you pay for it means only you can use it? god i thought we all learned about sharing in flipping kindergerden.

No, I think he's saying that if you take the contributions of others for granted, you'll create animosity.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901611.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players LGS, we have a bunch of white card tables and a bunch of separate Gaming tables, so there usually isn't too much conflict. But, we do complain a bit because the Magic players seem to love to stand around tables and block all the isles so its hard to move. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901618.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901618.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

heartserenade wrote:
Cardgamers don't invest time on playing card games? Tell that to people who spend 5-8 hours finetuning their decks for Nationals every goddamn day.

And yes, I was one of those people. To finetune a deck you need to spend hours playtesting it both online and in real life. Even if you netdeck (basically copy a winning deck online) you still need to finetune the deck to your playstyle, preference and meta. Not to mention getting used to the deck and knowing the ins and outs (when to mulligan, when to keep your cards, how many lands you need theoretically for the deck to function properly, how good your deck is on certain matchups, what to sideboard on certain matchups, the lists are endless) which means hours more of playing.

They don't care about what they own? Some cards are worth a lot (hello Black Lotus!) and a scratch can reduce its price by 25-50%. So naturally you should put them in really thick sleeves. And preferably away from people who can steal them. You'll also notice that most players put their cards inside card sleeves to, call me crazy, but I think they use card sleeves to protect their cards. Fancy that.

It's really insulting and if I may say so, more than a bit ignorant, to state that card gamers don't care for their stuff and don't invest time on what they play.

I play card games and wargames. I take care of my cards just as I would properly case my miniatures. It takes time and care to do well in card games just the same as it would (if not more) as in wargaming. That guy just wanted to spit out some venomous words in his crusade against all card players.

P.S.- You forgot the oversleeves. The card sleeves for your card sleeves (it even furthers your point).

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901628.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
chromedog wrote:
Those fans are still not going to like each other.

Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

The thing is you can't co-exist in your own little worlds because 95% of the time, you have to coexist in the Same world, and there is competition for table space, gaming time and general breathing air.

We have a problem in our area where there is rec softball which people pay lots of money to play in and authorizes the use of the fields almost every weekday from 6-10pm. The cost of our fees maintain the fields and pay the umps. Literally thousands of people play in these leagues. And every time, we have people setting up cones and trying to play soccer on the baseball fields while our game is going on. They want to play soccer and feel we should all share, which is impossible when all of right field has 20 people playing soccer. Of course there isn't much we can do, the park police can shoo them away, and often does, but they see it as "we were here first" and don't care if we pay to keep the grass mowed or reserved the field.

Soccer players hate baseball because they feel we are entitled to the tables and look down upon them for using our space and being rude.

Baseball players hate socket because we are the reason the park is maintained, we reserved the fields via our payments and have the right to be there when they do not.

How can these groups possibly co-exist? It happens with lots of dirty looks and cross words.

The issue is war gamers are the soccer players most times because MTG pays for the "fields" we play on. If we don't respect that, then we are the ungrateful trespassers in most situations.

So just because you pay for it means only you can use it? god i thought we all learned about sharing in flipping kindergerden.

yes. We paid for it, we secured the field by being in the league run by the government parks who provide the fields. Our funds secure the time and place and maintain the fields.

That means when we want to use them and we have been authorized to use them, others who want to use the field may do so during "off" hours when the groups who paid for and secured the fields are not using them.

You can't "share" a field for two games at the same time, and there are only so many hours in the day. If adding more fields is not possible, then there will be conflicts. The people who pay for and reserve fields through the official channels have the right to the fields over those who don't pay and don't reserve the fields.

Works exactly the same in FLGS, and war gamers in most situations are not the people who provide the funds for the tables... Many times the only way to get a "prime time" gaming is to have an organized event which pays money to generated forced income to the store.

Apparently the unpaying mooch is the one who wants to "share" the thing he didn't contribute financially to.

War gamers need to accept card games keep the lights on and not get offended when they get preempted for "better customers". Get used to "Tuesday night wargaming" opposed to "all day Saturday MTG"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901741.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

jifel wrote:
At one of my LGS, we have a bunch of white card tables and a bunch of separate Gaming tables, so there usually isn't too much conflict. But, we do complain a bit because the Magic players seem to love to stand around tables and block all the isles so its hard to move.

I have the same problem with regular 40k players doing that.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901755.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k player comes along once every month or two and takes up 6x4, they're basically cutting the available table space in half compared to the other games that get played on those tables.

For MTG, it gets even better as you can take the table tops off the tables and get 4 games with 8 people around the same underlying tables once they are separated.

There's one local 40k tournament that happens each year and it still gets around 50 people. MTG events easily number 6+ a year and upwards of 200 people. Both events have a similar $40 or so entrance fee.

It takes less square footage for in store gaming and for special events in rented halls.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901853.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5901853.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

nkelsch wrote:

Works exactly the same in FLGS, and war gamers in most situations are not the people who provide the funds for the tables... Many times the only way to get a "prime time" gaming is to have an organized event which pays money to generated forced income to the store.

Apparently the unpaying mooch is the one who wants to "share" the thing he didn't contribute financially to.

War gamers need to accept card games keep the lights on and not get offended when they get preempted for "better customers". Get used to "Tuesday night wargaming" opposed to "all day Saturday MTG"

My, I read it wrong, I thought you said no one can use the park. And Im fine with the arrangement you said. What I'm not fine with is the fact that MTG players also get free reign over other nights. At my store it used to be the MTG players would take over other nights and the owners had a policy that catered to magic AKA they can play when they want where they want. I had magic players taking dice from my bag and using them for counters for something. Its like you analogy with soccer players where softball players continuously take over their designated time.
MTG can get the goood spots for all I care, but dont let them take over others.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902016.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902016.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Works exactly the same in FLGS, and war gamers in most situations are not the people who provide the funds for the tables... Many times the only way to get a "prime time" gaming is to have an organized event which pays money to generated forced income to the store.

Apparently the unpaying mooch is the one who wants to "share" the thing he didn't contribute financially to.

War gamers need to accept card games keep the lights on and not get offended when they get preempted for "better customers". Get used to "Tuesday night wargaming" opposed to "all day Saturday MTG"

If they are the revenue stream keeping the place in business, then the store owner is correct in catering to them, even if itis 7 nights a week. If you want to be respected and have more reliable gaming time, you need to show not only will you not harm or conflict with his golden goose, but that dedicated wargaming time will increase his bottom line.

If MTG pays the bills, they deserve the tables, and war gamers need to know their place and be humble and be thankful they can came at all. If they become a thorn in the "good customers" side, the next choice for the owner is to "choose" the larger customer base and ban the wargaming. (Which has happened at stores I have seen).

He who pays the bills is entitled to the space, if you want more wargaming time or dedicated wargaming time, you need to prove you guys are real customers deserving of such "catering to" opposed to thorns in the side to his strongest revenue stream. Organized play with entry cost in store credit which could guarantee moving hundreds of dollars of product could show the owner you are deserving of space.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902408.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players 40k only, which they say is 40k only.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902460.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902460.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Ironwill13791 wrote:

heartserenade wrote:
Cardgamers don't invest time on playing card games? Tell that to people who spend 5-8 hours finetuning their decks for Nationals every goddamn day.

And yes, I was one of those people. To finetune a deck you need to spend hours playtesting it both online and in real life. Even if you netdeck (basically copy a winning deck online) you still need to finetune the deck to your playstyle, preference and meta. Not to mention getting used to the deck and knowing the ins and outs (when to mulligan, when to keep your cards, how many lands you need theoretically for the deck to function properly, how good your deck is on certain matchups, what to sideboard on certain matchups, the lists are endless) which means hours more of playing.

They don't care about what they own? Some cards are worth a lot (hello Black Lotus!) and a scratch can reduce its price by 25-50%. So naturally you should put them in really thick sleeves. And preferably away from people who can steal them. You'll also notice that most players put their cards inside card sleeves to, call me crazy, but I think they use card sleeves to protect their cards. Fancy that.

It's really insulting and if I may say so, more than a bit ignorant, to state that card gamers don't care for their stuff and don't invest time on what they play.

Nah, we use these really thick hard plastic sleeves for cards that dates back to Alpha and Beta. Like half an inch thick. Hard to oversleeve that, unless you want to laminate it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902490.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5902490.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903196.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903214.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903214.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

nkelsch wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
chromedog wrote:
Those fans are still not going to like each other.

Neither sport DESERVES respect.

The players and their actions are what will be/will not be worthy of respect. The game itself? Nope.

As for me?
I don't care if I "don't get no respect" from magic players.
I don't hang with them, they don't hang with me. We can co-exist in our own little worlds and make believe the other doesn't exist quite happily.

The thing is you can't co-exist in your own little worlds because 95% of the time, you have to coexist in the Same world, and there is competition for table space, gaming time and general breathing air.

We have a problem in our area where there is rec softball which people pay lots of money to play in and authorizes the use of the fields almost every weekday from 6-10pm. The cost of our fees maintain the fields and pay the umps. Literally thousands of people play in these leagues. And every time, we have people setting up cones and trying to play soccer on the baseball fields while our game is going on. They want to play soccer and feel we should all share, which is impossible when all of right field has 20 people playing soccer. Of course there isn't much we can do, the park police can shoo them away, and often does, but they see it as "we were here first" and don't care if we pay to keep the grass mowed or reserved the field.

Soccer players hate baseball because they feel we are entitled to the tables and look down upon them for using our space and being rude.

Baseball players hate socket because we are the reason the park is maintained, we reserved the fields via our payments and have the right to be there when they do not.

How can these groups possibly co-exist? It happens with lots of dirty looks and cross words.

The issue is war gamers are the soccer players most times because MTG pays for the "fields" we play on. If we don't respect that, then we are the ungrateful trespassers in most situations.

So just because you pay for it means only you can use it? god i thought we all learned about sharing in flipping kindergerden.

yes. We paid for it, we secured the field by being in the league run by the government parks who provide the fields. Our funds secure the time and place and maintain the fields.

I'm genuinely confused. Unless your government parks are different from mine, government parks are public property. Everyone's taxes pay for them, so no one really owns more of them than anyone else. You might donate extra to play in the league, but you dont get to kick people out of the public library because you dropped off some books or donated a water fountain either.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:
Bossk_Hogg wrote:

So what you're saying is, you're insufferable?

No, we just treated them like fans of one sport treat fans of another sport. Y'know - cuz it's a 'tribal' thing. Even when humanity outgrew the whole 'tribal' thing and went to cities and industrialisation, we still cling to little "tribal" groups - like fans of sporting teams.

But to most people under 30, yes - I suppose I would seem to be insufferable. However, to those of us over 40 - younger people don't SEEM insufferable, they just ARE.
(and we generally don't care what they think about it, either.).

We're old enough to know better and young enough to not give a frak about it.

Fair enough. To me, its the real life equivalent of playing "post count" (and I say this as someone well over 30). Particularly since, lets face it, we're all man children playing with little toy men or pretending to be elves or whatever. We each have a glass house on Dork Street. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903943.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5903943.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

As has been said before, the 'animosity' between gamers comes from completely made up bs like this.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904042.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904042.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I'm genuinely confused. Unless your government parks are different from mine, government parks are public property. Everyone's taxes pay for them, so no one really owns more of them than anyone else. You might donate extra to play in the league, but you dont get to kick people out of the public library because you dropped off some books or donated a water fountain either.

Goverment parks are maintained by the people's taxes at the barest possible convenience to the city. My city has an adult softball league with a $250 team league fee, $15 dollar non-resident fee, and a $22/27 game day fee. These fees go towards the people that maintain the fields (cutting grass, lining the baselines, cleaning up dugouts, etc...) and the game day fee goes towards paying the umpires and scorers. If outfield cuts into a soccer field and the soccer players aren't also paying a fee for maintenance, etc... then technically the softball players can ask the soccer guys nicely to get out because the field is theirs. If that doesn't work, the Umpire can ask them to leave and if that doesn't work, the "community officer" (a police officer that works out of a storefront to increase community relations between cops and residents) gets called in and he tells them to get off the field.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904089.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Alfndrate wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I'm genuinely confused. Unless your government parks are different from mine, government parks are public property. Everyone's taxes pay for them, so no one really owns more of them than anyone else. You might donate extra to play in the league, but you dont get to kick people out of the public library because you dropped off some books or donated a water fountain either.

That makes more sense. The ones down here either have designated fields for each sport (mainly soccer) that are handled by sign ups, so I guess it comes up less. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904291.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Portugal Jones wrote:

Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

As has been said before, the 'animosity' between gamers comes from completely made up bs like this.

Not really, On various occasions I have seen card players tear up cards(Sometimes opponents), flip tables, slap opponents and other things that would get you killed if you did it in 40k. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904338.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904338.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:
Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

As has been said before, the 'animosity' between gamers comes from completely made up bs like this.

Not really, On various occasions I have seen card players tear up cards(Sometimes opponents), flip tables, slap opponents and other things that would get you killed if you did it in 40k.

And I have seen and heard stories of 40k people doing the same or worse. I believe there was a thread here on Dakka about the worst opponents. Some of the stories includes stealing, biting your opponent's models, throwing models off the table, physically assaulting other players, whatever. And I'm also sure that some card gamers view wargamers like how you view them, hotsauceman1.

There are good people in every group, and there are bad people in every group. It's confirmation bias on your part if you can only focus on the bad of another group because they play a different game than you. It's bs, really.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904357.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

kronk wrote:

I was a card gamer (Decipher's Star Wars CCG) long before I even knew what WH40k was.

My Sienar Fleet Systems TIE Fighter deck challenges you! I miss Decipher's Star Wars game sometimes, I was getting really into the game when they went into the expanded universe with Revolution(I think the expansion was called?).

I have found that the Magic crowd is certainly very different from the other card game groups. In our local store, at least, a higher percentage of the Magic players that show up are 'Competitive' compared to the 40k players. The Magic players show up to draft for powerful cards and tournaments with netlist decks to stomp their opponents. Sure, some 40k players come to win just as much, but there is a MUCH higher percentage of casual gamers for 40k than Magic due to the hobby aspect of the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904487.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players FF. While both hobbies have very significant costs associated with them, I can buy 5 or 500 cards and begin building, testing and tuning decks immediately. Miniatures (unless bought pre-assembled and/or painted) have an immense set up time of assembling, priming, painting, basing and whatnot just to get figures up to table ready status.

Hell, I skipped a bunch of that and just aimed for the 'assembled and primed' part of that for most of my Malifaux crews and it still took untold hours getting there, plus the amateur paintjob on maybe half of them that still took hours per night to get 1-2 models where I wanted them to be.

There are certainly differences present between the genres, but I'm with heartserenade, it's less a matter of "wargamers are like THIS, while CCG players are like THIS", and more a matter of "there are jerks, inconsiderate folks and outright asshats in every hobby, but we often find ourselves predisposed to notice more and think less of those who aren't 'of our crew/tribe/group'.

I guarantee that viewed from the outside, some people in this very thread have probably been "that guy/gal" that somewhere else there are people writing horror stories about dealing with.

Hell, I'll even admit I might've been one of them, despite efforts to generally keep my ego and shenanigans in check.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904822.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

heartserenade wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Portugal Jones wrote:
Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

As has been said before, the 'animosity' between gamers comes from completely made up bs like this.

Not really, On various occasions I have seen card players tear up cards(Sometimes opponents), flip tables, slap opponents and other things that would get you killed if you did it in 40k.

What I meant is card gamers don't need to invest as much time in their cards as a person does in putting together and painting any army. Whatever time they actually invest is up the individual. Also card gamers will just up and trade them as that's the nature of the game. How many people just trade out minis? Yes I know it happens, but no where near the same degree.

My original statement is based on things I've observed in the various stores I've been to in the past 20 or so years. So if the OP asks a general statement about animosity between card gamers and other gamers (as I don't really wargame much these days) he's going to get my reasons. So don't tell me they're bs just because you guys live in candy land where the dwarfs and oompaloompas get along

I used to be a card player but quit when it got too expensive to keep up. One of my guilty pleasures was whipping out my "$2000" magic deck(moxes and all) that I've had since back in the day which has been mercilessly shuffled by grimy hands without sleeves and watching the horror on my opponent's face as I drop the chaos orb

I've never seen anyone flip a table in either system but I have seen a 40k player rip the wings off his fliers then dump all his metal and plastic minis in a bag, zip it up, proceed to beat it on the floor for quite a while, then ask if anyone wants to buy an army

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904929.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5904929.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Not all Card Players are Magic Players
Not All Wargame Players are 40k Players.

They are both very major genres. For example, I think say, Netrunner Players and Warmachine Players have very much the same 'Let's play a competitive game and have a good time not pulling punches! Rock on!' mindset. It's very, very different from say, that kid Yugioh player, or the neckbeard Historical guy (generally somewhat unfair) stereotypes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905128.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Farseer Faenyin wrote:

kronk wrote:

I was a card gamer (Decipher's Star Wars CCG) long before I even knew what WH40k was.

That game was awesome. I enjoyed a Scum and Villainy deck myself... Dr Evazon's rediculous effect pissed off my best friend so much he still mentions it 10 years later lol.

I have found that the Magic crowd is certainly very different from the other card game groups. In our local store, at least, a higher percentage of the Magic players that show up are 'Competitive' compared to the 40k players. The Magic players show up to draft for powerful cards and tournaments with netlist decks to stomp their opponents. Sure, some 40k players come to win just as much, but there is a MUCH higher percentage of casual gamers for 40k than Magic due to the hobby aspect of the game.

Yeah, Magic Tournaments are Serious Business.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905267.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

I've spent 17 years with a legacy and vintage deck, each year I fine tune them more and more. I've cards from unlimited and revised still in great shape. I think what you are saying is based on your local area, a stereotype, kids, or something. My MTG group (we're all in our 20's), plays D&D, 40K, Magic, and munchkin. We take care of our stuff here.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905363.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905363.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Yeah, Magic Tournaments are Serious Business.

That was always one of the side benefits of being in the lower rungs of the ladder during pre-releases, which I used to attend pretty regularly; once prizes aren't on the line anymore, people are generally pretty casual about things.

Some of the most intense and even less pleasant players I ever faced were those I played when I came in 1st / 2nd in my 2 flights in one day.

Of course, I'm sure this holds true for a great many games. Money/prizes being on the line can make even 'great, awesome, super mega friendly dudes' into jerks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905372.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

dreamakuma wrote:

Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

And don't forget the annual 'Let's talk about those terrible opponents we get' in the General subforum. You know, the guys who knock your models off the table, or smash their own models after a few turns (or a game) of bad dice or take a pair of pliers to them, or eat them right in front of you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905373.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

infinite_array wrote:

dreamakuma wrote:
Bat Manuel wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thing but to the OP.

Wargamers and card players have a completely different mindset.

A wargamer usually cares about everything they own and is generally respectful and careful around other gamers and their stuff because they know how much money and time went into what they are playing with.

Card gamers don't care about 90% of what they have and it shows. They don't invest much time in what they are doing and just use money so there really isn't a need to appreciate anything when money can just get more. They throw crap on the ground, bump into people, etc.

I've spent 17 years with a legacy and vintage deck, each year I fine tune them more and more. I've cards from unlimited and revised still in great shape. I think what you are saying is based on your local area, a stereotype, kids, or something. My MTG group (we're all in our 20's), plays D&D, 40K, Magic, and munchkin. We take care of our stuff here.

That can't be good for the digestion......]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905501.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905501.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Automatically Appended Next Post:

infinite_array wrote:
eat them right in front of you.

Man, that story was classic.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905514.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players MTG in the past, I so have to thank the Card players as my FLGS would not exist, and I would not have a place to play 40k, Warmahordes. The store makes 50% of it's profit on cards, and and more on video games. The minis are maybe 20-25% of thier business. They do a good job keeping room for both or making room for for release days or tourneys. I have found both groups willing to answer questions and explain what is going on. But there is definately a difference in "types" of people who play the different games at the serious end as compared to the more normal casual players]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5905850.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players )
I uhhh, apparently...accidentally...may have, you know...stream of consciousness'ed a bit here. A wee bit monologue-esque so to say.

Hehe..oh boy...please don't boot me out the forum!

Like the OP, my game of choice is Magic, I play regular Friday Night Magic from 7 to midnight, and after go to a restaurant and play casually with a group of 4-8 on average and play till 4am. I've been playing for 15 years and until an actually all around better card game comes along that's going to be where I'm at, 'Spoils' was close, 'Ascension' also close. I too average out high in the rankings, 'round fifth place out of a usual crowd of 20, special events we pack the store to 64 players at a time. (I'll get back to this, it is important not just "BLAHBLAH WE"RE AWESOME!", give me a sec

) Weird thing though in the area I'm in there are 7 FLGS in the 20 square mile area, roughly, kinda guessing the radius. The difference is the super chill laid back players all congregate at one of them, (there are a few other stores that don't have seating room.) which is, after many pilgrimages to the other six, the 'cool' one is the one I go to now. There USED to be 4 'good' stores and three 'bad' stores. (personal opinion, shared by others, put the pitchforks down.) Now it's six to one. SIX 'bad' store and ONE 'good' store. Every

day someone wanders in and we get to talking and they'll stop and say "Gosh, your store/people/event is so nice, we were at __________ last week and we didn't have a good experience there and yada-yada-yada." and all we can do is nod our head and say "You aren't alone."

DO YOU GUYS BELIEVE THAT!? THERE ARE GAMING REFUGEES IN OUR CITY! WHAT-THE-

Then we'll get some guy/gal come in and play and stare dumbfounded at us when we quietly ignore their attempt at proving a point of some rule or what not, then walk out the store after winning/losing with some net-deck or net-list against whatever crazy bananas junk we're running and say on their way out the door that we're not 'competitive enough' or some bull. (To our credit we get an satisfying win rate against them, not perfect of course but good enough to satisfy honor

) From time to time someone within the store will go out and gauge themselves against the other stores and come back with stories that frankly baffle some of us. And occasionally a sweet victory/placing story

You all have stories like these I'm sure.

Do we have animosity between the war gamers and card gamers? No. Why? Because they are chill mature peeps, that's why. What problems do arise are when the war gamers come in on a pre-release weekend and find standing room only through most of the 1200sq.ft. store. Then they get shown the sign in the window that said that this was going to happen from three weeks back, grumble, buy a model or paint or something, and go get pizza. Because they are mature, chill, peeps. And they know that the lights stay on because the card guys spend money like it was their job (told you I'd get back to that!

). And the card guys know that its the wargame guys that will hang out all day and help direct customers when the card gamers are out. And then they stop and watch each others games. Because they are awesome respectful brothers and sisters. That's why.

But you know what we have found? As far as 'animosity' goes? We've found it insidiously hiding within the groups themselves. But not within the subset of regulars! (or at least most of them) Its when some

comes strutting in and starts acting high and mighty in that passive-aggressive way that we nerds tend to do, and rubs everyone the wrong way, and then the arguments let fly. And don't you say that it is just in one or two categories of gamers! I'm a jack-of-all-games, I've seen this stuff first hand in ALL the categories. In the scheme of things, over the past five or so years, am I the only one that's noticed the increasing number of superiority complexes in nerds? I was guilty of being one of them for six months before the guys at the store called me on it! It's easy to get into. It was frighteningly easy for me, I'm still trying to get my gamer head back on straight. Its like we've gone from being the picked on or ignored minority to prissy alley cats trying to guard the worthless ground we stand on. We have more competitions now than we did before, so now we can be more competitive. We have more players, and that challenges us to establish our identity with in the growing herds, even through squabbling. We have become what we once despised. Gangs of bullies. That's my opinion. I'm seeing a few similar stories through out the thread. I'd wager I'm not alone In my observations.

Moral of the story? It's not the games, it's not the store, it's not even the interaction of the groups. It's the people. Always has been. Always will be. We need to have a meetin' and get ourselves set straight, 'cuz this

be getting real old. Proceed to be awesome brothers and sisters, and remember to keep an open mind!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906023.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players GW manager plays both..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906173.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906173.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bat manuel wrote:What I meant is card gamers don't need to invest as much time in their cards as a person does in putting together and painting any army. Whatever time they actually invest is up the individual. Also card gamers will just up and trade them as that's the nature of the game. How many people just trade out minis? Yes I know it happens, but no where near the same degree.

So? Just beause you got something from a trade does not mean you don't take care of it. How you got something is entirely irrelevant on how you treat it.

My original statement is based on things I've observed in the various stores I've been to in the past 20 or so years. So if the OP asks a general statement about animosity between card gamers and other gamers (as I don't really wargame much these days) he's going to get my reasons. So don't tell me they're bs just because you guys live in candy land where the dwarfs and oompaloompas get along

Soooo... if I live all my life next door to a rude American neighbor, does that justify me in saying "Americans are very annoying and stupid!" because all my experience with Americans has ben unpleasant? That doesn't make it any less racist. As I have said there are bad card gamers.... and there are bad wargamers.

Your comment suggests that card gamers are not respectful of other people's belongings (including their own) and they don't invest time in what they do and they can just buy their way to power. How anyone can see it as not insulting is beyond me. No one said bad card gamers don't exist, but that's the equivalent of me saying "Miniwargamers are all children left by their parents in GW stores and when they lose they bite off their opponent's models and throw tantrums!"

Can you not see why it's a stupid thing to say?

I used to be a card player but quit when it got too expensive to keep up. One of my guilty pleasures was whipping out my "$2000" magic deck(moxes and all) that I've had since back in the day which has been mercilessly shuffled by grimy hands without sleeves and watching the horror on my opponent's face as I drop the chaos orb

Well, turns out you're allegedly a Magic player who doesn't take care of his cards. Does that mean everyone is the same as you? No. Everyone I know with expensive cards treat them all properly (sleeved, at the very least), and if we encounter one who doesn't we point out that they're losing value for the card if they don't treat them well.

Also sounds to me that a "$2000" deck with a chaos orb doesn't sound like something you should be proud of. You allegedly have moxes and you have... Chaos Orb? Really?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Killionaire wrote:
People in this thread are also overgeneralizing 'card players' and 'wargame players'.

Not all Card Players are Magic Players
Not All Wargame Players are 40k Players.

They are both very major genres. For example, I think say, Netrunner Players and Warmachine Players have very much the same 'Let's play a competitive game and have a good time not pulling punches! Rock on!' mindset. It's very, very different from say, that kid Yugioh player, or the neckbeard Historical guy (generally somewhat unfair) stereotypes.

It's also interesting to note that there is also "animosity" between these groups. Most prevalent example is 40k versus Warmhordes. Yugi Oh and MtG. 3.5 ed versus 4th Ed D&D.

It's really a tribal thing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906189.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players CCG with miniatures

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5906260.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

heartserenade wrote:

Bat manuel wrote:What I meant is card gamers don't need to invest as much time in their cards as a person does in putting together and painting any army. Whatever time they actually invest is up the individual. Also card gamers will just up and trade them as that's the nature of the game. How many people just trade out minis? Yes I know it happens, but no where near the same degree.

So? Just beause you got something from a trade does not mean you don't take care of it. How you got something is entirely irrelevant on how you treat it.

My original statement is based on things I've observed in the various stores I've been to in the past 20 or so years. So if the OP asks a general statement about animosity between card gamers and other gamers (as I don't really wargame much these days) he's going to get my reasons. So don't tell me they're bs just because you guys live in candy land where the dwarfs and oompaloompas get along

I used to be a card player but quit when it got too expensive to keep up. One of my guilty pleasures was whipping out my "$2000" magic deck(moxes and all) that I've had since back in the day which has been mercilessly shuffled by grimy hands without sleeves and watching the horror on my opponent's face as I drop the chaos orb

Well, turns out you're allegedly a Magic player who doesn't take care of his cards. Does that mean everyone is the same as you? No. Everyone I know with expensive cards treat them all properly (sleeved, at the very least), and if we encounter one who doesn't we point out that they're losing value for the card if they don't treat them well.

Also sounds to me that a "$2000" deck with a chaos orb doesn't sound like something you should be proud of. You allegedly have moxes and you have... Chaos Orb? Really?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Killionaire wrote:
People in this thread are also overgeneralizing 'card players' and 'wargame players'.

Not all Card Players are Magic Players
Not All Wargame Players are 40k Players.

They are both very major genres. For example, I think say, Netrunner Players and Warmachine Players have very much the same 'Let's play a competitive game and have a good time not pulling punches! Rock on!' mindset. It's very, very different from say, that kid Yugioh player, or the neckbeard Historical guy (generally somewhat unfair) stereotypes.

Yup- Started playing back in high school in the 90's(unlimited era) and didn't really value the cards(black lotus was $30 and dual lands were $5) when they came out so I shuffled them which warped and dirtied them. My chaos orb was the most beat up card because of how it was used

I've had fun playing all sorts of card and war games through the years and was answering the OP's question with my observations.

Also the ONLY reason card players take care of them is because they are worth money. It's not like the have them on display on their walls at home...at least I hope not. If you lose one, you can go buy another. It's not the same as losing/breaking a hand painted model therefore the motivation for keeping them safe is entirely different.

I really don't need to say much more in this thread, but feel free to respond if it makes you feel better

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907129.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Card players don't only protect their cards because they're 'worth money', it's because they're 'our property'. There's an effort here, and in general, to make out that card players are mercenary and money orientated. Most players like playing with good cards, not tatty ones, common or rare. It's great that some tabletop players want to make out they're the only ones that are creative which makes them superior and have things that are properly valuable, not just with a cash value. But look at tabletop gaming, particularly Warhammer players, and see how many refuse to paint their miniatures or do the minimum three colours under protest, players who don't think about their own army and just net list and buy the most overpowered models they can. And I do see this more with Warhammer players than historical players, the net listing and unpainted armies. Creativity in Magic is different, it involves finding arrangements of cards that work for you. Sure you can net list, but so can wargamers, lets not pretend that either don't do this.

The other thing in Magic is that while there's a huge number of cards the rules are straight forward. You have competitive games but the rules are pretty black and white and if you follow these you can work through some complicated situations without needing a judge to help. Wargaming seems to have many instances of WAAC players who bend the rules, move figures inppropriately, mishandle dice and fight over whether something is in line of sight, etc. You can't do this in magic, the cards are printed as they are, the game is almost always clear cut and rigid and disputes are never settled on the roll of a die. This seems to cut down a lot on the arguments likely to be had at competitive Magic events.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907249.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907249.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Bat Manuel wrote:
I've had fun playing all sorts of card and war games through the years and was answering the OP's question with my observations.

That doesn't make your answer any less offensive or ignorant. But please, continue on not answering the points I have with an off-tangent about how you've tried a lot of games and have played Magic since its beginning.

Just because you didn't value YOUR cards doesn't mean other people didn't value theirs. You want anecdotal evidence: I've placed Top 8 with a Mono Green Aggro deck, in which everyone calls a budget deck (less than Php 1000, or $24). And I took care of those cards because they're the ones I use and practice with day in and day out.

I really don't need to say much more in this thread, but feel free to respond if it makes you feel better

So you came here, insulted a group of people, and when pointed out that what you said is simply not true your response is that? Bravo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907307.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907307.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Card players don't only protect their cards because they're 'worth money', it's because they're 'our property'.

One million times this. I sleeve them to protect from scratches and damaged edges. I don't shuffle like I would a deck of regular playing cards cause I don't want bends. I want my things to look good.

I couldn't care less about the actual value of the cards as I never intend to sell. I will give cards away(barring those I wish to keep for sentimental reasons) to those people that are working on decks, I really only trade if someone demands I take something in return.

I tend to only put money into a single deck(my legacy Slivers, though I do believe I'm finished there unless I turn it into an EDH deck), the rest come from my rather sporadic booster purchases.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907579.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907579.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Platuan4th wrote:
I tend to only put money into a single deck(my legacy Slivers, though I do believe I'm finished there unless I turn it into an EDH deck), the rest come from my rather sporadic booster purchases.

You should look at adding some of the current slivers, they're fun

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5907727.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Alfndrate wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
I tend to only put money into a single deck(my legacy Slivers, though I do believe I'm finished there unless I turn it into an EDH deck), the rest come from my rather sporadic booster purchases.

You should look at adding some of the current slivers, they're fun

Those aren't slivers. They have the name, but they're some bastard abomination that stole the name.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909017.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909017.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909207.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
I have a wide repertoire of games that I play at any given time; Dark Heresy, X-Wing, MtG, 40K, D&D...just never saw the point in hating on other nerds.

Yeah, you're gonna have the tools, the scrubs, the fat disgusting neckbeards who eat babies and never bathe, but every gamer hobby has those, no?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909278.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

frozenwastes wrote:
The art definitely represents a departure from previous incarnations of the slivers. Game design wise though, they're great fun.

I've heard there's some awesome new stuff that's come out in the year or so since I stopped buying (trying to pay off some bills, only so much disposable income to go around), but honestly, I'm worried that if I hit up my usual spot for a dozen of the little buggers to round out my Sliver EDH deck, I'd wake up two hours later with no idea what happened, until a package with hundreds of cards arrived on my doorstep a few weeks later.

Basically I'm trying to avoid falling off the wagon, here.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909285.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
M13 was excellent and I think M14 is around the same in terms of quality. I'm still waiting to see how the set gets worked by people before I consider making any additions to my cube from it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909327.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
My apologies if slightly off topic, I just really want to put it out there that beeing fat isn't a choice, And the people who do give up on personal hygiene are the people who literally have nothing to get up for in the morning other then maybe a job or playing that wargame. Show these people the tiniest bit of human courtesy and try and tell them you have a problem with them, but also be willing to see that they are still people, most of them who are in a deep emotional pitfall and have very little motivation to better themselves. I have been there and a tiny bit of sympathy will work way better then dissaproving stares, silent avoidance and mocking them behind their backs. Food is the worst kind addiction because you can never quit it, getting thin and in shape is hard no matter how easy many people to whom it comes effortlessly think it is. Just show a tiny bit of understanding. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909418.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

NickOnwezen wrote:
As a fatter guy, I just want to point out that its so unbelievably easy to stereotype someone who is overweight as beeing 'fat disgusting neckbeards who eat babies and never bathe' just because your fat people immediatly assume you live with no personal hygiene. I shower twice a day, I have to wash my clothes every day because I don't have the luxury of letting what few clothes i have that fit properly pile up unwashed. You don't wear anything twice not ever because you sweat at the drop of a hat. I cary a can of deoderant everywhere i go, even the gameshop and I encourage people to tell me when to use it, because I can't tell my own body odor. You don't know how humiliating it is to tell other people hey if i stink tell me so i can fix it. But I do it anyway because I DO feel awfull when I am a hinderance to other people. I hate this stereotype because even with effort ONE GLANCE at the way you look and people pin this on you anyway. What does it matter wether you play card games or wargames when you can't even appreciate other people as basic human beeings because of their problems. With those kinds of opinions flying around, maybe this thread should not be about animosity about what game we play, and about why people feel superior to other people in general.

My apologies if slightly off topic, I just really want to put it out there that beeing fat isn't a choice, And the people who do give up on personal hygiene are the people who literally have nothing to get up for in the morning other then maybe a job or playing that wargame. Show these people the tiniest bit of human courtesy and try and tell them you have a problem with them, but also be willing to see that they are still people, most of them who are in a deep emotional pitfall and have very little motivation to better themselves. I have been there and a tiny bit of sympathy will work way better then dissaproving stares, silent avoidance and mocking them behind their backs. Food is the worst kind addiction because you can never quit it, getting thin and in shape is hard no matter how easy many people to whom it comes effortlessly think it is. Just show a tiny bit of understanding.

Speaking as a guy who weighed over 180kgs back in April, and has dropped somewhere in the region of 6-7kgs every month since, being fat (with one or two rare medical exceptions) is absolutely a choice! Its just one of those choices where the alternative is a lot harder. Please don't be the victim, if you're happy and healthy as you are, more power to you, but don't you dare try and make it about anyone but yourself and your choices. I have plenty of excuses for overeating, but the fact remains I was shovelling too much of the wrong stuff down my face and not taking any exercise. I knew it too.

As for everything you do to avoid smelling bad? That's very considerate of you, but I have to confess it sounds a little bit of an overreaction/paranoia, I shower once, maybe twice, a day, change my shirt every other day or so, but I use a good anti perspirant (note, not deodorant, they are not the same) and I seldom have a problem. Believe me, if I did, I have people who would tell me without hesitation.

You can relax though, you are categorically not a stinking, baby eating neck beard, or you wouldn't have cared enough to write that post!

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Personally, that isn't me, I have no issue talking to strangers, I've worked bars and spent much of my career in sales, but I do have a real problem letting people too close (a pair of bad relationships in my formative years one after another) which put me on a very similar path. This is compounded by a life limiting chronic illness, the management of which has been an issue for the last few years, leading to a very sedentary lifestyle. I got back into wargaming again as a means to avoid just sitting watching TV and as motivation to get out of the house.

Only this year did my Dr tell me that excess weight exacerbates my condition! (The plan had, up to that point, been get disease under control, then get back in shape) So I am now quite motivated!

To try and bring this back around to topic, and reiterate what others have already stated, there are unpleasant people in all walks of life, you don't have to be fat to stink and I'm pretty sure I'm not one of those, and it doesn't sound like you are either. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909503.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
Card gamers spend the same amounts of money (if not more) on much the same things - people may say wargamers waste money on FOTM armies and waste their time painting and planning but to be honest, how is that different from netdecking and buying out rares etc. for the newest set for whatever CCG you may play?

It's like the old grudge at the university I went to, where the drama societies loathes the LARP and Wargamers...because apparantly we wasted money on silly little things and dressing up in armour.

Which is hilarious, because isn't acting, on stage or screen heavily linked to costume and prop? Isn't roleplaying or LARPing just another form of acting with a different set of props?

How many of those actors end up as extras dressed up in 'fake' armour carrying 'fake' weapons on some sort of production?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5909722.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

frozenwastes wrote:
Yeah, the Return to Ravnica block was outstanding. Probably the best limited environment to date (even though I only played cube drafts of it). I ended up making a cube of it that imitates the drafting experience of the three packs from that block quite closely, but without using any rare or mythic rare cards.

M13 was excellent and I think M14 is around the same in terms of quality. I'm still waiting to see how the set gets worked by people before I consider making any additions to my cube from it.

As someone with 18 EDH decks built, just catching a glance of a decent new Angel can make the shakes return.

Even after years of moving from cracking boosters to buying singles, the urge remains strong...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5910135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5910135.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

Platuan4th wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
I tend to only put money into a single deck(my legacy Slivers, though I do believe I'm finished there unless I turn it into an EDH deck), the rest come from my rather sporadic booster purchases.

You should look at adding some of the current slivers, they're fun

Those aren't slivers. They have the name, but they're some bastard abomination that stole the name.

You shut your something or another

frozenwastes wrote:The art definitely represents a departure from previous incarnations of the slivers. Game design wise though, they're great fun.

There was a story involving a scientist studying them and fell in a spawning pool or something like that. The slivers analyzed him and found the humanoid form more complete and better suited to them than their previous versions.

With that said, their art could be purple silicone dongs and I'd still play them, I like the sliver rules in general

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5911399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5911399.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players LOL. Fair enough.

I think they're cool, but I get why those who might call themselves sliver traditionalists might not like the re-imagining. I happen to think them adapting to a humanoid form is pretty cool.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5911892.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5911892.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players

thechosen1 wrote:
Part of me is always astounded at how much gamers will hate on other gamers. We're all nerds, you'd figure we'd all have similar interests and dispositions.

There are people who will declare friends/family members dead to them for supporting the wrong team, or who treat a player changing teams as a personal affront. Being dumb about your hobby is a human thing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5913342.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5913342.page GMT Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players
It's part of the human tribalism need. That need to belong that doesn't have to be blood-based family.

Even pre-industrialised tribal cultures had names for themselves (generally translated as " - the people" and for the other groups "- NOT of the people". To differentiate them.

EVEN related tribal groups did this.

That nerds will do it, shows we are no different to sports fans.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5913932.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/541148/5913932.page GMT Re:Animosity Between Card and Wargame Players AS WELL!!!!1!!1!!!

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