Camarodragon wrote:

Making it flaming at least counters some of the warpflame disadvantages.

Camarodragon wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

How did you come to that conclusion?

The Daemon book says "Pink Fire uses the rules for Flamethrowers"

In the BRB. it has a profile, and states to use it unless specified. So we use the Daemon profile instead.

We go on to use the rules then for how to fire the flamethrowers and in that section it states that they are flaming attacks and panic checks must be made if there are casualties.

Finally it gives misfire procedure and Army book trumps BRB so we use those rules.

So the way I see it, it would have Warpflame and Flaming. The rules don't conflict in any way with each other and its not the warpflame conferring Flaming, its the firethrower rules conferring flaming.

GW really needs a "help the Daemons out" FAQ here and also on the 40k side of the game if they expect to sell any of these models. The model is utterly useless in that game. And on the fantasy side its "meh" because it can't march 20", although I really like the model. Maybe it will be able to in 9th. Making it flaming at least counters some of the warpflame disadvantages.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Basically, every model that changes the profile of a war machine you use the army book profile. An empire mortar is fired as a stone thrower. But it isn't S 3(9) multi-wounds(6) even though a stone thrower is. A stone thrower says multi-wounds (6) it in the profile of stone thrower and under damage, just like Fire Thrower lists Flaming Attacks in both areas. But a mortar is only multi-wounds (3).

From the BRB it says, "unless otherwise specified, a fire thrower has the following profile."

Well, it did otherwise specify.

You merge the two sets of rules and where there is a conflict, the army book wins. If it didn't, mortars, scraplaunchers, etc, would all be multi-wounds (D6). For scraplauncher, it says the model IS a stone thrower. But, you know, it's not. It has its own profile.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Yeah, I don't see why it shouldn't panic. That's not a special rule on the profile that was overwritten.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:
Yeah, I don't see why it shouldn't panic. That's not a special rule on the profile that was overwritten.

Panic isn't in the profile, it's in the same section as flaming hits.
Flaming hits IS in the profile, but it's also in the firing process.
I don't see how you can include panic and exclude flaming.

The basic fire thrower is redundant in that it has flaming in the profile, and flaming in the rules of how to fire it.

DukeRustfield wrote:
"Same section" is 100% meaningless. There is no BRB value that says you can only evaluate rules whole section-by-section. Where a section happens to be 3 sentences.

However the BRB does state the army book takes precedence over the BRB. If that changes a word in a rule's sentence, let alone a "section," so be it. And the BRB also says, for the 3rd time, unless otherwise stated, fire throwers have the below profile.

The profile lists the Special Rules the weapon has. Capital S, capital R. It doesn't list Flaming Attacks. You can't take multiple profiles.

I've already pointed out that every single stone thrower has D6 in the profile and text body. So let me ask you, mortars and thundertusks and scraplaunchers do D6 wounds or what is stated in their profiles?

You seem to want to cherry pick profiles and, strangely, add them together. When it's clear from every other weapon in the game that profiles are replaced. You're saying the BRB takes precedence over the army book and profiles are additive.

You can't have it both ways. You're arbitrarily taking the benefit that the army book clearly writes over. So you also get the penalties the army book clearly writes over. Including misfire and the fact it's move and fire--BRB says all war machines unless specified are slow to fire and move OR fire; but you've thrown out the unless specified on the profile, so we get to throw it out here too. And if a misfire is rolled, you have to roll black powder misfire and also take D6 SD6 hits.

DukeRustfield wrote:
If you replace it, you have your finite number of special rules. Just like in any weapon/unit. If you have a magic sword of +1 S it's not also KB just because another sword is KB. You use the profile that is listed and nothing more.

Are you really saying the profile AND the [uh, section] give 2 special rules that have to both be explicitly addressed? It's double flaming? Unless a weapon says, "ignore paragraph 4, sentence 2." That's nonsense. And no one has commented on how it screws up every custom war machine. Bolt thrower text lists Strength 6 in the profile AND the body. That means no bolt thrower can ever not be S6 no matter what your profile says. Stone thrower is D6 wounds in the center, all of them. And no Stone thrower can ever not be a small template, because it lists it in [tha section] which is magical and overrides everything.

And as I've already stated, you will have to roll on the black powder misfire and take the D6 D6 hits if a misfire comes up. Because it doesn't go "hey, forget the text in the BRB and use this," which you're saying is required. Because only the profile has changed and misfire isn't part of the profile. It uses the rules of a Fire Thrower, and that includes that rule on Misfires. It just has 2 now.