http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net This is my second try at a Salamander Army, having tried to understand better the nature of the men of Nocturne I've gone all out Drop Pod, I'm a bit worried about this tactic with the amount of interceptor stuff around now (I can see a Tau gun-line causing me some pain)

so here we go, this is 1850 points to play at my local GW store, most games there are 1750-1850pts, I'm building from scratch and hope to complete over the summer/before winter, I know theres a new 'Dex rumored, but I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) that not much will actually change in the new Codex

HQ - Vulkan He'stan
HQ - MotF with Power Weapon

Troop - Tac in Drop Pod with Multi Melta and Flamer
Troop - Tac in Drop Pod with Multi Melta and Flamer
Troop - Tac with Missile Launcher and Flamer

Elite - 9 Sternguard in Drop Pod with Lightening Claw, 6 x Combi Melta and 3 x Combi Flamer, add Vulkan and MotF to this unit

FA - Attack Bike Squad with 3 x Multi Melta (my anti-air group I hope)

HS - Ironclad Dread in Drop Pod with 2x Heavy Flamer and Ironclad Launchers
HS - Ironclad Dread in Drop Pod with 1 x Heavy Flamer and Melta and Ironclad Launchers
HS - Predator Tank with Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozer Blade and Storm Bolter (remove this if playing 1750)

---Tactics---

ML Tac stays on home objective (hopefully in ruins that can be bolstered by MotF [or does he have to be on the board to bolster?])
Melta Bikes stay out of trouble (and zoom about) if flyers are present, if not they go for the tin cans
Predator moves to mid range, or gives support to backfield objective if needed (dependent on opp's army)
Turn 1 both Ironclads and Sternguard DS in, cause as much damage as possible and get ready to be blown sky high, if T2 is reached by Ironclads, they should assault, sternguard should head for cover and try to pop tin cans or transports, then take out key units, assaulting as and when needed with Vulkan and MotF able to dish out some serious pain in CC...and Sternguard not being to shabby either

the 2 other Drop Pods holding the Tac groups should DS in from reserve (hopefully) and hold 2 other objectives (hopefully)

does this work, or am I better sticking with my Necron force and leaving Salamanders alone - its just since I saw the Codex I have loved the green armoured guys alot, their fluff is nice, I'd like a SM group who care about civilians etc and put themselves in harms way to help out where they can to complement my walking death necrons]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5912672.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5912672.page GMT IMO I would drop one ironclad even though they are cool models for a 5 man th/as squad, also I would add some heavy Flamers on my stem guard replacing the combi Flamers ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5912862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5912862.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913243.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913243.page GMT
1) You're best off topping up your sternguard and making it a 10 man squad. There are a number of reasons for doing this, but the main one being that you can then combat squad upon the drop to hit 2 separate units if you have to. Remember, for the time being, Vanilla drop pods can carry 12 models, so no worries about space with Vulkan and a second character in the pod. If you combat squad on the drop do it by weapon type. You can then have anti-tank/anti infantry, and can play a variety of nasty tricks incuding popping an expensive transport and then flaming the contents with the second squad.

2) Weapon load-out of Sternguard should use the Vulkan buff to the max. I'd suggest going 5combi-melta/5combi-flamer, and stay away from the dedicated flamer/Hvy Flamer/Meltas as you don't want to lose access to your special ammo, a premium that is build into the units' cost. Plus, you already have the heavy flamer on Vulkan, so no worries. In that vein, I'd drop the claws too, you don't need them. You want to keep your sterns as far away from close combat as you can, they are a shooting unit through and through and you don't want to lose any of your special ammo fire. Besides, the sgt in the squad will most likely wind up taking any character challenges to preserve the squad or Vulkan if he is present. That way any special weapons on the character in the opposing squad can only cut down the sgt, while Vulcan proceeds to decimate the opposing squad with his power weapon attacks. Even if Vulkan is not there, your Sgt should still make a challange to any opposing characters with special CC weapons (an thus will likely die in the first round, often times before even getting to swing) to preserve his unit. Give the sgt a combi-wep and melta bombs, and if you must a power wep, but remember he is there for shooting and sacrifice, not CC.

3) I'd drop the MOTF, perhaps in favor of a librarian with some combination of Gate of Infinity, Null Zone, and Force Dome. The main advantage of the MOTF is to allow you to take more Dreadnoughts, and to move them to HS, but since you're only taking 2 of them he really isn't necessary. You still have 2 elite spots open, so no worries there, and besides giving you some extra weaponry with the servo harness he really doesn't do all that much for you. He is very unlikely to be close or lucky enough to repair the ironclads, and he certainly dosn't need the power sword with the harness.

4) If playing friendly games I would highly suggest seeing if you can try out a Lucius Pattern Drop Pod (Forge World, Rules in IA Apoc 2nd Ed) for the dreads. If you can try them by proxy using a regular drop pod, or if you have the money shell out and order the resin from FW. These guys will cost you an extra 30pts a piece (65pts per pod) but will allow your ironclads to assault the turn they arrive, maximizing their impact. In addition, with careful placement, you can ensure that the resulting close combats screen your sternguard to keep them from being blasted off the board in your opponents following shooting phase (he can't shoot through an active melee).

5) I'm assuming you meant Autocannon on the pred, as only the BA get the assault cannon Baal version. This is basically an anti-infantry unit, but with the amount of small arms fire from both the sterns and tactical squads, you don't really need this. You could use some long range fire power for popping high armour units that the Sterns can't get to right away, so if you do keep it I'd suggest upgrading the sponsons to the lascannons. The other problem you have is that this unit will be almost alone on your side of the board aside from the ML tac squad, and will be the target of choice for any of your opponents long range high strength weaponry, especially if you invest in the Lucius pods. Just something to keep in mind, it might be worth dropping this to spend on points elsewhere. If you rally want more anti-infantry, I'd suggest a TFC, as it will give you a free techmarine and better options overall.

6) The melta bikes are a great anti-armour solution, however, they are better off as single units that you can zoom around to hit multiple targets, and to split up enemy fire through target saturation. They are not the best AA as any shots taken will not have skyfire so will need a 6 to hit. They can be a great distraction unit, and are very fast, but I tend to prefer Land Speeders for this role as they can have twice the weaponry for a small increase in points. A duel MM/MM speeder will cost you 70pts, but its pretty much a guaranteed fire and forget tank killer, and almost certain to get its points back, especially so with the Vulkan buff. I'd go with two of the land speeders for 140pts, and drop the bikes as it will complement the speed and mobility of your army a bit better and will avoid any problems from dangerous terrain.

7) AA is seriously lacking in this list, though the inherent vulnerability of that is up to your local meta. However, since you mentioned flyers when speaking of the bikes I figured I'd address it. I would look at changing up your home objective camper unit, and swapping them out for a scout sniper squad upgraded with Sgt Telion. Then, put them behind an ADL with an Icarus lascannon. With Telion, you no longer need to buy them cloaks as he automatically gives stealth in 6th, and he gives you the ability to fire your Lascannon at BS6. In addition he has precision shot placment at all times, so if no fliers or tanks present themselves he can proceed to merrily snipe out special characters and weapons that might be a threat. Total cost for the unit should be about 220pts or so, assuming you take a 5 man squad with a special weapon, and is very versatile and surprisingly survivable behind the ADL. Plus, if you keep the pred, you can always form a square with the ADL and place it inside with the squad to give it cover / hull down from all directions

8) For the Tactical squads I would suggest either melta bombs on the Sgt in case they have to assault a vehicle or MC and/or a combi-weapon to suit the combat role of the squad. a Combi-flamer can be used in conjunction with the squad flamer for wall of flame protection vs assault, and a combi-melta can give you another shot at cracking open a critical target in case the MM misses or has moved and can only snap fire. And, due to Vulkan's buff, they are synergistic with the rest of the army.

9) One option you might want to look at as well is a Contemptor Dreadnought. Again this is a Forge World unit, so take this advice with a grain of salt and check with your FLGS crew to make sure they're ok with it. Like the ironclads, these guys are AR 13 on the front, but they also have an invulnerable save, and special upgrade weapons not available to normal dreadnoughts. My personal favorite is a Contemptor Mortis with Twin Kheres Assault cannons and a CML in a Drop Pod. He will compliment the firepower of the sterns nicely, provide AA for that half of the board, and is very survivable. However, you can also go with a twin CCW version with flamers for around the same point cost of the iron clad, but getter a nicer looking model and an invulnerable save

Overall, I'd say that drop pod armies are a blast to play and very effective, and really showcase the precision strike capability of the Space Marines, and are very fluffy to boot. I've played them since the end of 2nd ed and have always had at least one SM army around to play pick up games with or to loan out to new players looking to learn the game. Plus, if you find that you don't wind up liking them, with the new codex on the horizon they should be easy to sell to recover your investment. Check ebay or the trade forum, and you can pick up copious amounts of power armored bodies for a song if you're looking to keep prices down. I wish you the best of luck!

Hope that helps,
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913390.page GMT LOL... What Instinctual said. Much more well-worded than I would be! AND thorough...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913875.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5913875.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914457.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914457.page GMT
Will check if FW is ok with people too as that could be sweet

Thanks again]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914474.page GMT tac squad, attack bike squad and predator on the table to start? I'd be worried the predator will just be a sponge for all the AT fire your opponent has in turn one, especially if you go second. I'd drop it, Bring more stern...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914508.page GMT
I've had a play around with the list this morning and this is where I've got to.

First off I asked one of my friends I'd be gaming against most often his thoughts on FW units, he seemed happy until I mentioned the drop pod, i think he was thinking about my Necrons adding some FW stuff, less happy about Ironclads ripping apart everything as soon as they land kind of understandable I guess

done a bit more research online and this is my thought

1850pts

HQ - Vulkan He'Stan
HQ - Librarian with no upgrades, powers would be null zone/force dome/smite/gate of infinity dependent on the enemy

Troop - Tac with Flamer and Multimelta in a Drop Pod
Troop - Tac with Flamer and Multimelta in a Drop Pod
Troop - Scouts with Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher and Sgt Telion (equivalent)

Elites - Sternguard Vets 10 in Drop Pod with 5x Combi-Melta and 5x Combi-Flamer, adding Vulkan and Libby
Elites - Ironclad Dread in Drop Pod with 2x Heavy Flamers and Ironclad Launchers
Elites - Ironclad Dread in Drop Pod with 1x Heavy Flamer, Meltagun and Ironclad Launchers

HS - Thunderfire Cannon
HS - Thunderfire Cannon (remove if at 1750)

Fort - ADL with Icarus

comes in at 1850 on the nose

***Tactics***

similar to before,

Telion (or his Salamander equivalent) sits behind ADL with his Scouts, ADL has Home Objective (think thats allowed?)

Thunderfire Cannons set up in ruins if possible and Dakka as much stuff as possible (I've heard 1 Thunderfire is good, 2 is awesome)

Elites Drop Turn 1, leaving Tac Drop Pods to arrive as and when to claim objectives

as before Tau gunlines with Interceptor chips may hurt a bit, but I hope this is effective enough for fun play, not OP but also not UP ?

any thoughts?

couldn't afford the bikes/landspeeder with meltas at 1850 with Libby and ADL, but hoping that I have enough Antitank with the meltas in the sternguard, ironclads and Tac squads]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5914851.page GMT AT. Have fun w the TFCs, they are awrsome in 6th, jyst keep the techmarine further forward in buffed ruins for 2+/3++ saves vs T7 ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5915915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5915915.page GMT
Thanks again]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5915980.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5915980.page GMT Make sure to get back to us and tell us how the army works for ya]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5916130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/544087/5916130.page GMT