<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
This list is for friendly tournament - take on any enemy - approach. Do not know what I will be facing except Orks and SM. I went for no armor (except drake) to make enemy AT fairly useless. Do you have a list I would loose or struggle against? If so, where are my weaknesses? Thanks for any feedback.

Lord joins bikers to form a reasonably hard unit with FnP. Could swap so Lord has power fist and champ has power weapon. Which is better? NM hang back (hopefully in cover) and hold objectives. CSM unit is allround and will go for objectives, supported by biker unit. Havoks and Oblits prioritize taking out enemy transports.


Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh
power weapon
bike(T5)
aura of dark glory
tot = 130


10 CSM, 2x meltagun, combi melta, 9 extra ccw
188


5 noise marines inc noise champion
3 sonic blasters
blastmaster
134

5 noise marines inc noise champion
3 sonic blasters
blastmaster
134

6 bikers (Lord joins here)
2 meltaguns
powerfist
Mark of slaanesh
Icon of Excess
= 222

Helldrake 170

2 obliterators, mark of nurgle 152

Havocs, 4 autocannons 115

total 1245
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5969877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5969877.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5969902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5969902.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I don't know your meta however I would beat this by drowning you in bodies , lord commissar giving 50 respawning bodies stubborn and LD10 , main body would be two platoons with auto cannons and meltas left over points would go I onto 2 vendettas and a demolisher should be about 1250 but my math is gak


Valid point, IG in particular would give me trouble with the combination of lots of bodies, high AV vehicles and multiple fliers. That said, anybody fielding more than one flier would not be considered playing a friendly list in either my gaming group or my club. But against such an army I would probably play the objectives game and go for a draw, focusing on taking out your demolisher, sending my helldrake with hades autocannon (which I would choose against IG) for your vendettas and then generally keeping back, going to ground in cover and keeping as much scoring stuff in reserve as possible. Trying to hold my objectives and possibly contest yours. I still don't see 50 IG troops walking across the board and then taking out all my three troops choices, two of which are fearless.. But it could happen I guess. Anyway, IG is fairly non-existens in my Meta, except as allies.

Against that type of army, what would you recommend? I could bump the size of my NM squads by dropping the mark of slaanesh and icon of excess, and changing meltaguns back to flamers on the bikes. That would give me three more noise marines with sonic blasters, taking my NM units to 6 and 7 man each upping both my anti-horde and scoring survivability. Better?

Why I've went with so many meltaguns in this revision is because I am fearing mech inf lists more than hordes. I see battle wagons and razorbacks coming my way and want to pop them to be able to use sonic weapons on what's inside.. Although the green tide/foot ork lists with 30 boy squads would probably be my hardest opponent. Then again, pretty much no-one beats that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5971755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5971755.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? csm for some plague marine , 7 or even basic 5 man , would make great holders or foward bullet soaks and I have beaten green tide once with my mech guard ( ill admit with total cheese ) and I would agree with dropping something to squeeze in more noise marines , perhaps after dropping the normal csm if you like ... But it looks fairly good , I would go Bale flamer and vector strike the flyers ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5971975.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5971975.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5972014.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5972014.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5972038.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5972038.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
Updated list, with powered down biker unit, and powered up numbers on my scoring units:

Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh
power weapon
bike(T5)
aura of dark glory
130


10 CSM, 2x meltagun, combi melta, 9 extra ccw
188


7 noise marines inc noise champion
5 sonic blasters
blastmaster
174

6 noise marines inc noise champion
4 sonic blasters
blastmaster
154

6 bikers (Lord joins here)
2 flamers
powerfist
165

Helldrake 170

2 obliterators, mark of nurgle 152

5 Havocs, 4 autocannons 115

Total 1248]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5973749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5973749.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? CSM. They are a liability. Put those points in plaguemarines with plasma, melta, or naked. If you have to have an extra troop, get cultists. They're better point for point than CSM. CSM are pretty much the worst unit in that codex.

Make sure your lord's PW is a sword.

Other than that, this look good for a friendly matches with only 1 flier. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5973794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5973794.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? NM units 6-man (fluffy) which means I could upgrade to the sigil of corruption on the lord for better survivability (and less chance to give out a VP). This leaves me with 12p left over, which could be spent either way. For example VoTLW on the CSM? Or it gives me margin to swap flamers on bikers back to meltas.


Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh
power weapon
bike(T5)
sigil of corruption
140


10 CSM, 2x meltagun, combi melta, 9 extra ccw
188

6 noise marines inc noise champion
4 sonic blasters
blastmaster
154

6 noise marines inc noise champion
4 sonic blasters
blastmaster
154

6 bikers (Lord joins here)
2 flamers
powerfist
165

Helldrake 170

2 obliterators, mark of nurgle 152

5 Havocs, 4 autocannons 115

Total1238

 Sothas wrote:
I second (and strongly recommend) getting rid of the standard CSM. They are a liability. Put those points in plaguemarines with plasma, melta, or naked. If you have to have an extra troop, get cultists. They're better point for point than CSM. CSM are pretty much the worst unit in that codex.

Make sure your lord's PW is a sword.

Other than that, this look good for a friendly matches with only 1 flier.


Thank you. Was thinking about a power axe for the lord, but seems a shame to waste his good Initiative! So for TAC situations might go with a sword then.

Regarding CSM: why do you see them as a liability? They flee or what? I do want a third scoring unit, preferrably a tough one, so it's either CSM (points left for VoTLW now) or Noise marines. I could swap out 10 CSM for 9 NM including champ with Doom Siren and Power weapon. Gain fearless and a nice flamer, but loose some meltas. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5974349.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5974349.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
I'd drop the helldrake, as, between bike CC and all those sonic weapons you shouldn't have much trouble with units in cover. That will give you the points to upgrade your havoc autocannons, and get another entire anti-tank unit in there. Or perhaps a bike sorc to pass out buffs and handle MCs.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5975679.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5975679.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
 Ailaros wrote:
I'd beat this with vehicles. With the exception of a bike fist and two obliterators, there just isn't any serious anti-tank to go around.

I'd drop the helldrake, as, between bike CC and all those sonic weapons you shouldn't have much trouble with units in cover. That will give you the points to upgrade your havoc autocannons, and get another entire anti-tank unit in there. Or perhaps a bike sorc to pass out buffs and handle MCs.



As stated, I do have the option of changing back to meltas from flamers on the bike unit. And the CSM squad has 3 meltaguns. Granted, short range on a slow unit, but still.
Autocannons are a little weak against hard tanks, but they do rock against transports and medium ones.

Helldrake with Hades autocannon, noone run that?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979052.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979052.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
And no, don't bother with an autocannon helldrake. A forgefiend costs the same, but does the job over twice as well.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979096.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979096.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
 Ailaros wrote:
You've got a bit of defensive anti-tank, sure, but nothing serious on the offensive. What happens when you come across riptides or russes?


Agreed, I will basically have to rely on only my Oblits. If they are dead or out of position I will have trouble, at least until bikers can charge with fist or CSM can reach with meltagun.

 Ailaros wrote:

And no, don't bother with an autocannon helldrake. A forgefiend costs the same, but does the job over twice as well.



Yes, but waaaay harder to kill, and can also do Vector strikes taking out other units in the process. But yeah, it seems a bit expensive for what it does.


An alternative would be dropping the drake and adding a second squad of Oblits. That would give me 2x2 Lascannons/multi-meltas and boost versatility as well. With my 12p left over from before this leaves me room to give the lord the burning brand, for a bit of "Helldrike light"-effect, and pairs up with with the dual flamer bikers..

Yay or nay?


Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh
power weapon
bike(T5)
Sigil of corruption
Burning brand of Skalathrax
170


10 CSM, 2x meltagun, combi melta, 9 extra ccw 140+30+18
188


6 noise marines inc noise champion
4 sonic blasters
blastmaster
154

6 noise marines inc noise champion
4 sonic blasters
blastmaster
154

6 bikers (Lord joins here)
2 flamers
powerfist
165

2 obliterators, mark of nurgle 152

2 obliterators, mark of nurgle 152

5 Havocs, 4 autocannons 115

tot 1250

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979921.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5979921.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
I'd note that if you dropped the CSM squad down to another noise marine squad, you'd have nearly enough points to upgrade the havocs to lascannons. Lose a few of the sonic blasters and you're there.

Also, why the flamers on the bikes? You already have the burning brand in that squad, and you're going to be way better in close combat against whatever flamers are good against anyways. Plus, you've got all those sonic weapons already. Flamers are hardly necessary.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981278.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
 Ailaros wrote:
yea-er.

I'd note that if you dropped the CSM squad down to another noise marine squad, you'd have nearly enough points to upgrade the havocs to lascannons. Lose a few of the sonic blasters and you're there.

Also, why the flamers on the bikes? You already have the burning brand in that squad, and you're going to be way better in close combat against whatever flamers are good against anyways. Plus, you've got all those sonic weapons already. Flamers are hardly necessary.



You are right, it's flexible and I could swap to that approach!

Regarding the flamers - Well why not? It's only 10pts for the two flamers, and they could rapidly take out a tyranid brood or ork boy squad, or cause some overwatch damage. Together with the Burning Brand they should also be able to severely damage even a MEQ squad. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981313.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981354.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
westiebestie wrote:Regarding the flamers - Well why not? It's only 10pts for the two flamers, and they could rapidly take out a tyranid brood or ork boy squad, or cause some overwatch damage. Together with the Burning Brand they should also be able to severely damage even a MEQ squad.

Firstly, those boyz (or whatever) need to survive ignores-cover, ignores-armor sonic weapons. Then they need to survive a burning brand. Then they need to survive relentless double-tap bolters. They're already hurt pretty badly by this point, and odds are very good that when a bunch of hammer of wrath + I5 Ws4 bikes smash into them along with a chaos lord, that they're boned already.

Put another way, you're already wiping out whatever you hit. In this case, the only thing you're investing those weapons slots and points into is into overkill. Meanwhile, if they had a pair of meltaguns, for example, they could have anything to say to vehicles, and they'd have the added benefit of being able to blow up a transport in the shooting phase and then charge the guys inside, rather than having that be a two-turn affair, wasting time and risking losses.

Plasma or meltaguns would give your bikes new and interesting things they could accomplish. Flamers only give them what they didn't need any more of.

Spudlust wrote:Your lord's probably going to be killing everything while your champ is kind enough to take the challenge, so kitting him out for any target would probably be a good idea.

More likely to be the other way around, I'd think. There are things you can only hurt in a challenge (mostly MCs), and it makes more sense to let the weaker champ stay out and powerfist things and be able to put any incidental wounds on the lord, who can still attack even if he loses a wound. The lord has less to gain by being hidden than the champ does.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981581.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981581.page GMT CSM 1250p with no armor for friendly tournament - would you beat it?
 Ailaros wrote:
westiebestie wrote:Regarding the flamers - Well why not? It's only 10pts for the two flamers, and they could rapidly take out a tyranid brood or ork boy squad, or cause some overwatch damage. Together with the Burning Brand they should also be able to severely damage even a MEQ squad.

Firstly, those boyz (or whatever) need to survive ignores-cover, ignores-armor sonic weapons. Then they need to survive a burning brand. Then they need to survive relentless double-tap bolters. They're already hurt pretty badly by this point, and odds are very good that when a bunch of hammer of wrath + I5 Ws4 bikes smash into them along with a chaos lord, that they're boned already.

Put another way, you're already wiping out whatever you hit. In this case, the only thing you're investing those weapons slots and points into is into overkill. Meanwhile, if they had a pair of meltaguns, for example, they could have anything to say to vehicles, and they'd have the added benefit of being able to blow up a transport in the shooting phase and then charge the guys inside, rather than having that be a two-turn affair, wasting time and risking losses.

Plasma or meltaguns would give your bikes new and interesting things they could accomplish. Flamers only give them what they didn't need any more of.



I see what you mean. If i have the points over, meltaguns adds more versatility than flamers. What would you loose to get the meltas?

 Ailaros wrote:

Spudlust wrote:Your lord's probably going to be killing everything while your champ is kind enough to take the challenge, so kitting him out for any target would probably be a good idea.

More likely to be the other way around, I'd think. There are things you can only hurt in a challenge (mostly MCs), and it makes more sense to let the weaker champ stay out and powerfist things and be able to put any incidental wounds on the lord, who can still attack even if he loses a wound. The lord has less to gain by being hidden than the champ does.



I see what you mean and see matters as you sire. Thank you for confirming my views!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547464/5981628.page GMT