<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers SM rumor thread, it was mentioned that all the CSM Chaos Undivided Traitor Legions didn't get rules, and, of course, no Legions got Chapter Tactics, things that C:SM chapters now seem to be getting.

So I thought, why not write rules for the Chaos Undivided Chapters. Black Legion got a supplement, so they're out, but what about the Night Lords, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, and Alpha Legion?

The remaining traitor legions loosely translate to units in the actual book (World Eaters-Khorne Berserkers; Thousand Sons-Thousand Sons; Death Guard-Plague Marines; Emperor's Children-Noise Marines), so while writing Chapter Tactics for them could be fun, for the time being I'm leaving them out.

It should be noted, most of these are pretty thrown together with no playtesting whatsoever, so if something is horribly unbalanced, whoops, it'll get changed. In addition, these are meant to be placed within the CSM codex, not separate from it. Just imagine these units appeared in the codex, along with their CTs and legion specific relics and special characters.


Alpha Legion:

Chapter Tactics:
- Changing Faces: All "Look Out Sir" rolls, regardless of for whom, are successful on 2+
- Saboteurs: Before the game begins, D3 cultist units with a maximum of 10 models each gain the Saboteurs special rule and must be held in Reserves. When units with the Saboteurs special rule are brought in from Reserves, they may be placed in any building or fortification not occupied by enemy units, or any piece of area terrain (staying more than 1" away from any enemy models), or anywhere else on the board outside 12" of any enemy units. Units with the Saboteurs special rule may not charge the turn they arrive from Reserves, but otherwise may act as normal.
- Taking the Initiative: An Alpha Legion army seizes the initiative on a 5+, and no opponent ever rolls to seize the initiative against them.

Veterans of the Long War - Mark of the Hydra: Units with this mark gain the VotLW rule, and Alpha Legion units with all models with this rule gain the Infiltrate USR.

Special Units:
HQs: (note that any HQ bearing VotLW - Mark of the Hydra (10 pts) makes Alpha Legionnaires troops)
- Chaos Lord: Basically Same as book, except can take Mark of Chaos Undivided - Mark of the Hydra
- Sorcerer: Basically same as book, except can take Mark
- Special Characters: I was thinking Arkos and Sindri, to get one Chaos Lord and one Sorcerer, but that's open to debate and the rules for them would obviously be complicated. In addition, these SCs would retain "The Hydra" special rule, in that when challenged, they may choose to make a 5+ "Look Out Sir" roll for any wounds they must save during the challenge.

Troops:
- Cultists: Functionally the same as cultists from the book, though all models may take krak grenades at +1 points per model, two models may take special weapons, and any model may be given meltabombs for +5 points per model.

Elites:
- Alpha Legionnaires: 21 points a model, maximum of 20 per unit (VotLW - Mark of the Hydra costs 2 pts a model). Similar statline to SM Veterans (LD9, 2 attacks), and carry bolt pistol and boltgun. They also get ATSKNF because of their rigorous training and solid organization when compared to other traitor legions. No Sergeants, as no one sticks out. Can take up to three special weapons (no heavy weapons though) and two power weapons. In addition, every Legionnaire unit within 12" provides a boost, an Alpha Legionnaire unit gains +1 LD on the first unit within 12", +1 Init. on the second, and +1 A for every unit thereafter.

Relics:
Chameleon Armor: An HQ wearing this armor starts the game in reserve. At the start of any assault phase turn 2 or later, if units are engaged, you may choose to roll a d6. On a roll of 4+ on turn 2, 3+ on turn 3, and automatically on turn 4, the HQ model appears in an assault of the player's choosing, after removing a friendly model from the unit and replacing it with the HQ. He is allowed to position himself as though he had piled in and charged. In addition, when challenged, the HQ may choose to attempt a "Look Out Sir" roll for any wounds that must be saved. This roll is successful on a 4+. Cost: 35 pts


Concept:
Basically, I tried to write in their "We're all Spartacus" attitude, while including their use of cultists and quick decisive strikes. Took some liberties at some points obviously.


Night Lords:

Unwilling to Serve: Night Lords are Desperate allies with Daemons. In addition, within their own FOC they may not use units with any Marks of chaos gods (except Chaos undivided), cultists, or Dark Apostles. They may ally with Marked units as allies of convenience.

Chapter Tactics:
Lords of Darkness:
An army with the Night Lords legion as their primary detachment may choose to re-roll the dice when determining if Night Fight is in effect. If Night Fight is in effect at the start of the game, D3 non-vehicle Night Lords units may make a Scout move exactly as if they had the Scout special rule. In addition, if Night Fighting was in effect for turn 1, at the end of turn 1, roll a dice. On a 5+, Night Fighting is in effect for turn 2. If Night Fighting is in effect at the end of turn 2, roll a dice. On a 6+, Night Fighting is in effect for turn 3. Night Fighting automatically ends starting turn 4, no matter what.
Prey-sight:
All Night Lords units gain the Night Vision special rule.

Veterans of the Long War - Night Lords: Each model with this mark has the Fear USR. In addition, if Night Fighting is in effect, Night Lords gain the Stealth special rule, so long as no searchlights or other tools that counteract night fighting are being used.

Special Units:
HQs: (take Night Lords mark +15 points, Night Lords Legionnaires become troops)
Chaos Lord: Same as regular Chaos Lord
Special Characters: Krieg Acerbus, Talos

Fast Attack:
Night Lords Legionnaires: 22 pts/model. Veteran marine statline (2A, 9LD) May take 2 special weapons, and 1 melee weapon at 5 model, a 3rd special weapon at 10 models. VoTLW 2 pt/model. Jump pack marines with ccw, boltgun, and boltpistol. If they deepstrike, after landing, enemies within 6" must take a LD test, or go to ground. A unit that has purchased Terror grenades forces a Leadership test at -2 LD.
Wargear:
Terror Grenades:
Any Night Lords unit with Veterans of the Long War may take Terror Grenades at a cost of 2 pts per model (or 5 points for an Independent Character). On the turn a unit with Terror Grenades charges, enemy units in base to base contact with any model from that unit take Fear tests at -2 Leadership.
Built to Terrify:
All models in a Night Lords unit may make their melee weapons AP5 for +3 pts per model. Up to three models may make their weapons AP4 for +6 pts per model.

Relics:
Crown of Night: Some say it is the real Corona Nox, others, that it is merely a pale imitation, though it's power is undeniable, and Night Lords fight harder in its presence. Friendly models within 12" use the model with the Crown of Night's LD and have +1 attack (excluding the wielder). Finally, if the wielder of the Crown of Night is slain, the body becomes an objective, worth 2 Victory Points. Cost: 35 points


Concept:
Go hard with fear, stealth, jump troops, and AP X weapons. Make it so that when they are flying around people are taking LD tests to do anything and they generally paralyze opponents with fear.



Iron Warriors:

Chapter Tactics:
- Siege Experts: 1 piece of terrain, building, or fortification increases cover save by 1, and 1 piece of terrain, building, or fortification decrease cover save by 1. Shatter Defenses does not stack with this.
- Shooting and Melee attacks against buildings and destructible terrain add +1 to armor penetration roll
- Infiltrate and Crack: d3 Iron Warriors units may infiltrate at the start of the game
- At the cost of making elites OR fast attack 0-1, Iron Warriors may make Heavy Support 0-4. At the cost of making elites AND fast attack 0-1, heavy support is 0-5.

Veterans of the Long War - Iron Warriors: Iron Warriors Legionnaires and HQs, when shooting weapons (after choosing which weapons to shoot), roll a d6 as a unit. 1-3, the weapons function as normal. On a 4-5, the weapons are +1 strength. On a 6, weapons are +2 strength, -1 AP. In addition, they have Hatred (Imperial Fists).

Special Units: (obviously, again, take mark, get Iron Warriors Elites as troops. Also, if you use Iron Warrior CT, you MUST take a Warsmith at 1500 as an HQ, and not a Chaos Lord or Warpsmith. (doesn't apply if you take a special character, though most of those guys are Warsmiths anyway)

HQs: (mark IW costs 15 pts for HQ) All Iron Warriors HQs (except Warpsmiths) with Mark of IW get Orbital Bombardment (same at Chapter Master from 5th)
- Warsmiths: Basically Chaos Lords, except able to take Warpsmith gear and special rules. Also may have regular Warpsmiths. In addition, both may take Grav-guns as handheld weapons, or Warsmiths (but not Warpsmiths) may alternatively take a Grav-Cannon.
- Chaos Lord: You know the drill by now. Basically the same, except with Mark they make Iron Warriors troops.
- Special Characters: Honsou, obviously, but we would probably want to shove another couple guys in here.
Wargear:
Mechatendrils - Many Iron Warriors marines have augmented their bodies with warp distorted mechanical devices. Due to their warp touched nature, regular Iron Warriors receive no benefit from them normally. However, in addition to their normal rules, Mechatendrils of Iron Warriors Warsmiths and Warpsmiths are capable of quickly rebuilding their fallen comrades. A Warpsmith with mechatendrils grants FNP (6+) to his squad (not cultists), and a Warsmith with mechatendrils grants FNP (5+).


Elites:
- Iron Warriors: 120 points base for 6 marines, 20 points per marine after that. Veteran Marine statline. VotLW is 3 pts per model. One model is a Sergeant who may take terminator armor, terminator weapons, and also terminator heavy weapons. Must take a multiple of 3 (cannot have 10, must take 6, 9, 12 or 15). Only the Sergeant may take power weapons, lightning claws, or special weapons, but for every three Iron Warriors (including sgt) a model may take a heavy weapon, and a model may take a powerfist or chainfist. In addition, Iron Warriors snap shots succeed on a 5 or 6, not just on 6s (this does not apply against fliers).

Dedicated Transport:
- Rhino: Iron Warriors have specially modified their Rhinos to have extra capacity. Iron Warrior rhinos have a transport capacity of 12, and cost 40 pts. In addition, Iron Warriors have the option of increasing the armor of their rhino for 15 pts. If taken the Rhino becomes 12/12/10.

Heavy Support:
- Iron Warrior Obliterators. 75 points each. Iron Warrior Obliterators are effectively the same, except they can have up to 5 Obliterators (up from 3) and can choose two different weapons across the unit. In addition, they may morph to Grav-Cannons and Missile Launcher (with JUST Flak Missiles) as well. VotLW-IW: 10 pts per model, and if chosen, the unit gains the Split Fire special rule.

Relics:
- Writhing Steel of Finality: This is a weapon that functions like an Obliterator weapon, except that the weapons it manifests are not "heavy" including all weapons that would normally be heavy weapons. In addition, it may manifest Mutilator weapons in CC. Cost: 40 pts.
- Cybernetic Armor of the Dark Mechanicus: A model with this relic has a 2+ save, FNP (4+), and may only ever be the subject of Instant Death to something with double strength (not to force weapons, for example). Cost: 40 pts.


Concept:
Lots of heavy weapons, ability to morph, allowed to take grav cannons. Oh, and INFILTRATING OBLITERATORS WITH A 50% CHANCE OF +1 STR HEAVY WEAPONS, AND NO COVER! HEY TAU, DIE IN A FIRE! WOBWOBWOBWOBWOB CALL 9-11! DUBSTEP OBLITS IN DA HOUSE!!

Sorry...things got a little intense there.


Word Bearers

Note: Word bearers may ally Daemons without an HQ (though they may take them), rather they need only take a daemon troops choice to receive access to elites, heavies, and fast attack choices. In addition, if they do take an HQ and troops, all elites, heavies, and fast attack choices are 0-2, not 0-1. Also, Word Bearers are allies of convenience with Alpha Legion.

Chapter Tactics:

Models in this army have the Crusader USR.

Fervent Chant to the Pantheon - All Word Bearers have a Gift of Mutation.

Veterans of the Long War - Word Bearers: Models with this mark have the rage and furious charge USRs.
Icon of Metamorphosis: Units with the Icon of Metamorphosis may re-roll on the Chaos Boon table at the start of any given turn, if they so choose. The Dark Acolyte rolls separately from the unit; please make a note of the difference. Note, however, that these results do not ignore the Spawnhood result, unless a Dark Apostle or High Dark Apostle is present. The Dark Apotheosis result is ignored for regular models, though Dark Acolytes do NOT ignore this result, and may ascend.

Special Units: NOTE: All armies above 1K must take a Dark Apostle or High Dark Apostle, before allowed to take a Chaos Lord or Sorcerer. Take the Mark (+15 points for HQs), get the Word Bearer Host as troops.

HQs:
High Dark Apostles: Basically WS6, W3, A3 Dark Apostles, coming in at 145. Note: may take 3 Dark Apostles or High Dark Apostles, or some mixture, for each FOC HQ slot.
Special Characters: Let's throw in Erebus, Burias Drak'Shal, and Davroth.

Troops:
Possessed Marines move into the Troops slot if you take the Word Bearer's CT. They may take the Word Bearer's VotLW for +4 pts per model.

Cultists. Effectively the same as regular cultists, except models may take suicide vests for +8 points a model. When in CC, a model with a suicide vest may choose to use their vest instead of attacking. When they use the suicide vest, place a small blast template centered over the cultist. All models, friend and foe, under the template take a S7 AP4 hit. Vehicles are hit on the armor side facing the cultist. After the attack is resolved, remove the cultist model.

Elites:
Word Bearer Host: 100 points for 5 models base cost, with all models having a Veteran marine statline, and a Dark Acolyte with the same statline. Each additional marine is +20 points, and they may take a maximum of 12. Marines may take Mark for +3 pts/model. If the marines in the unit have bought VotLW, they may take an Icon of Metamorphosis. May take two special weapons or one heavy weapon and one special weapon. Dark Acolyte may take melee or ranged weapons from the wargear list. They may also take a Power Maul for 15 points. In addition, Word Bearer's may add a number of cultists to the unit equal to the number of the Marine Host members for 6 pts per model. Cultists in the Word Bearer Host may take Suicide Vests.

Relics:

The Maul of the Warmonger: This is an Power Maul that strikes at +1 Str over normal Power Mauls, is AP3 and has the rending special rule. In addition, it is a Daemonic weapon. Pts. 35

Banner of Frenzied Worship: This Banner makes all friendly models within 24" fearless. Once per game, it grants the relentless USR to all units in that 24" bubble with the banner as well as the Fleet USR. Pts. 35


Concept:
Word Bearers are actually fairly basic and straight forward, but their rules combine for a potentially very potent force. With lots of Dark Apostles, they can give many units Zealot, and with the Mark they gain Rage and Furious Charge from their zealous nature. That's a very potent force when charging. Then I dealt with their daemonancy through the FOC and allies, and finally their penchant for using cultists. They use them differently than Alpha Legion, in that AL likes to use them as agents and saboteurs, while Word Bearers use them more as meat shields, hence the Black Templar-like ability to mix squads.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5976457.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5976457.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers SM has given us a template to work from in terms of adding legion traits, which the CSM codex sorely needed.

I haven't had a chance to go through this yet, but most of this stuff is either overly complicated, or very wishlisty and probably too powerful.

HOWEVER, there are a lot of good ideas in there. If you don't mind I'd like to go through and prune a bit to bring this all in line with that I consider to be the power level of the new loyalist chapter traits based on the rumors we've heard, and maybe make a few changes where I disagree fluff-wise. Anyway, nice work!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe I'll step through one at a time. In general I'm thinking of reducing the number and complexity of the rules, and toning down the overall power level. If you look at the rumored loyalist chapter traits, most chapters are only getting a few USR's and a FOC modification, or something along those lines.

Alpha Legion:
Spoiler:

Concept:
Basically, I tried to write in their "We're all Spartacus" attitude, while including their use of cultists and quick decisive strikes. Took some liberties at some points obviously.
This is a good approach, except I think quick and decisive strikes is less in character, while sneakiness would suit them better.

Chapter Tactics:
Changing Faces:
All "Look Out Sir" rolls, regardless of for whom, are successful on 2+
(This is great - clean, simple, flavorful. It basically covers the Spartacus aspect.)

The Hydra: (moved to the Relic section)

Saboteurs:
Before the game begins, D3 cultist units with a maximum of 10 models each gain the Saboteurs special rule and must be held in Reserves. When units with the Saboteurs special rule are brought in from Reserves, they may be placed in any building or fortification not occupied by enemy units, or any piece of area terrain (staying more than 1" away from any enemy models), or anywhere else on the board outside 12" of any enemy units. Units with the Saboteurs special rule may not charge the turn they arrive from Reserves, but otherwise may act as normal.
(I think this keeps with your idea without breaking the new 6th edition ban on assaulting from Reserves).

Taking the Initiative:
An Alpha Legion army seizes the initiative on a 5+.
(toned down slightly but otherwise a good idea)

Mark of the Hydra:
No units in an Alpha Legion detachment may take the mark of any chaos god. Additionally, any unit that takes Veterans of the Long War also gains the Infiltrate special rule.
(I think VotLW is a great hook to work from when it comes to adding a flavorful boost for the legionnaire units - it's currently a must-take, it already costs more for more valuable units like Chosen, but it doesn't come close to putting CSM on par with their loyalist counterparts, so it's safe in my opinion to give a freebie along with it. Plus any "veteran of the long war" in these lists would by definition be an original Legionnaire, so it makes sense to roll it in)

Wargear:
Chameleon Armor:
Each time a model wearing Chameleon Armor takes an unsaved hit during a Challenge, you may choose to roll 1D6. On a 4+, remove the closest model from the character's unit (or the unit they are attached to, if they are an Independent Character) as a casualty instead of taking any wounds. Cost: 15 pts
(I felt the Chameleon Armor was both overly complicated and probably overpowered, and letting any character do this anytime as The Hydra was too. This piece of wargear is essentially giving you a second invulnerable save when your character is stupidly forced to issue/accept a challenge).

Suicide Vests: (on second thought, this really belongs with the Word Bearers. Their cultists are fanatics, the Alpha Legion's cultists are trained operatives. leaving it here anyway for future reference)
Any number of Suicide Vests may be taken by any Cultist unit. At the start of the Fight Sub-Phase of any close combat, before any attacks are made, you may use any Suicide Vests in a Cultist unit locked in combat, resolving the effects one Suicide Vest at a time. Place a small blast market on top of the cultist whose Suicide Vest you are using. All models under the blast template, including friendlies, take an automatic S8 AP4 hit. Any vehicles are hit on their rear armor. The cultist is then removed. +10 pts per Suicide Vest
(I love this, it just needed some beefing up to really make it worthwhile)

Demolitions:
All models in a Cultist unit may be given krak grenades at a cost of 1 pts per model. Any number of models may be given melta bombs at a cost of +5 points per model.


------

That was a lot to dig through but I think this gives some flavorful options without going overboard. I'll take a look at the other legions later but hopefully you don't mind the direction I'm taking.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977197.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers CTs right now, is I'm not sure how to power them.

For example, the IF one sounds good, but the CTs I wrote would probably be better than that and need to be toned down. Meanwhile, the White Scars CT rumors are pretty darn good, with better Jink saves, HoW hits, etc., and are similarly powered. We'll probably have to wait for the final book to really be able to gauge those those accurately.

I will definitely take some of the ideas you've put up and incorporate them in edits. They're good ideas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977619.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers Night Lords:
Spoiler:

Concept:
Go hard with fear, stealth, jump troops, and AP X weapons. Make it so that when they are flying around people are taking LD tests to do anything and they generally paralyze opponents with fear.
(Sounds great to me. I love the Night Lords by the way, so I really want to get this right).

Legion Tactics:

Unwilling to Serve:
Night Lords are Desperate allies with Daemons. In addition, within their own FOC they may not use units with any Marks of chaos gods. They may ally with a Chaos Space Marine detachment with Marked units as allies of convenience. Night Lords detachments may not take Dark Apostles or units of Cultists (their mindset and methods don't exactly attract the faithful, or weakling mortal followers).

Lords of Darkness:
An army with the Night Lords legion as their primary detachment may choose to re-roll the dice when determining if Night Fight is in effect. If Night Fight is in effect at the start of the game, D3 non-vehicle Night Lords units may make a Scout move exactly as if they had the Scout special rule.

Prey-sight:
All Night Lords units gain the Night Vision special rule.

Flayers of the Weak:
Any Night Lords units with Veterans of the Long War gain the Fear special rule.

Relics:
Crown of Night:
Some say it is the real Corona Nox, others, that it is merely a pale imitation, though it's power is undeniable, and Night Lords fight harder in its presence. Friendly units within 12" use the leadership of the model with the Corona Nox, and friendly units within 12" gain +1 attack (but not the wielder). Cost: 35 points
(I like it, just too much going on - this is pretty much a loyalist Chapter Banner now and I think is priced appropriately)

Wargear:
Terror Grenades:
Any Night Lords unit with Veterans of the Long War may take Terror Grenades at a cost of 2 pts per model (or 5 points for an Independent Character). On the turn a unit with Terror Grenades charges, enemy units in base to base contact with any model from that unit take Fear tests at -2 Leadership. Additionally, Terror Grenades count as Assault grenades and one model may throw a Terror Grenade, in lieu of shooting normally, with the following profile:

Range: 8", Strength: X, AP 5, Type: Assault 1, Small Blast, Poison, Hallucinogenic Terror
Hallucinogenic Terror: Any unit that takes any wounds from a Terror Grenade must take a Pinning Test at -2 Leadership.
(Took this idea from your Night Lords unit and ran with it - the idea in my mind is to make Fear actually do something, and give units (especially deep striking units) a way to suppress enemy shooting so they don't get blasted before they can charge)


Apologies for a billion edits, this is my final draft. I tried to keep the Night Lords from actually being any more powerful overall, just very situational. Essentially they're bullies and cowards. They're relying on the cover of night to give them an early position advantage, and on facing weaker units that they can terrify into not shooting/striking back. I considered leaving in the outflanking stuff, but figured that kind of outmaneuvering/lightning strike is more a Raven Guard or White Scars thing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5977674.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
- Took away "The Hydra" and moved the rule onto the Relic, but also made it a special rule for SCs, but on a 5+, not a 4+.
- Switched Mark of Chaos Undivided with Veterans of the Long War with Infiltrators rule.
- Took away suicide vests for cultists (will add them back into Word Bearers)
- Switched the ability to not be challenged while wearing the Chameleon armor with a 4+ Look Out Sir roll in challenges. Kept the "pops into assault" rule, on the basis that the HQ is sort of supposed to be disguising himself, but changed it so that you have to remove one of your models to fit the HQ in there.

Also moved suicide vests under Word Bearers like you suggested. I made the suicide vests S7 AP4 instead of S8, so that they weren't too effective against vehicles (still good, especially if you can get to their back armor), and won't ID as many characters.

I'll make changes to the Night Lords stuff a little later. I probably will roll the AP weapon stuff into the marine profile, and will probably remove the shrouded rule but maybe add in something that can potentially extent night fighting.

I'd like to keep the LD tests on deepstriking, since I feel like that would make sense. Seeing a bunch of scary marines landing right next to you would probably result in a LD test. I'll have to think about how the grenade rules should fit in there though.

I also think I'd like the Crown to nullify psychic on a 4+ still, since wasn't the fluff on the Corona Nox that it might have been fashioned from rocks with anti-psyker abilities that only existed on the (now destroyed) Night Lords homeworld?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5979935.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5979935.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
I also particularly like the "pops into assault" thing that CalgarsPimpHand took out, but otherwise agree with all his edits as some of these rules were a bit clumsy.

Seriously, these rules capture the essence of what 40k *should* be (Infantry and Hero units duking it out with unique and flavourful abilities) instead of what it currently is (bring biggest gunline, roll first turn). This has inspired me to try and get my Ork Klans fan supplement back on track and reminded me as to why I got into 40k in the first place.

Well done guys]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5980966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5980966.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5980991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5980991.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
- switched Chapter Tactics to be more focused on Night Fighting, like CalgarsPimpHand suggested. However, added the ability to extend Night Fighting.
- changed VotLW to have just Fear under normal circumstances, but kept stealth during Night Fighting. Toned it down from Shrouded.
- Changed Legionnaires to vet statline, and raised price accordingly. Changed setup for LD test on drop. Regular drop forces LD test, while if terror grenades are purchased, range of test increases and is taken at -2 LD.
- Modified terror grenade mechanics on charge to be in line with suggestion
- Moved the melee weapon with AP-X rule to be under Legionnaires.
- Altered Crown of Night. LD boost and adds attack. I can't find where I read that the crust of Nostromo had anti-psyker abilities, so I removed it for now. However, I added that it becomes an objective when the model is killed.

rhesus: I think that rule could have worked for Alpha Legion cultists, but I think exploding oneself works a little better for word bearer cultists, who are so zealous as to be absurd.

Update:
Made a few changes to Iron Warriors:
- changed Siege Experts rule to be 1 piece of terrain each, not d3 pieces of terrain.
- Added FNP rule for mechatendrils. I had wanted some sort of Iron Hands, cybernetic FNP-like rule, but I couldn't think of how to implement it without direct copying. I think giving mechatendrils this rule works pretty well.
- Changed Iron Warriors to veteran statline. I think I'm going to do that for all legionnaires. Also, forgot Mark/VotLW cost first time around, added it in now.
- Added 5 pts to base rhino cost (35 pts to 40 pts), but also added ability to make Rhinos 12/12/10 for +15 pts.

The downside to adding FNP via mechatendrils to Iron Warriors is that I need to come up with some new hook for Word Bearers Legion tactics. Hmm...

Update AGAIN:
Rewrote some stuff for the Word Bearers Legion:
- Changed second rule in Legion Tactics from granting FNP with Dark Apostles to simply that all Word Bearers have a Gift of Mutation.
- Added in Icon of Metamorphosis. Has synergy with Legion Tactics, in that it allows you to reroll your Chaos Boon result. Has the drawback of not ignoring Spawnhood roll, meaning if you're unlucky, you just spawned a whole bunch of those guys UNLESS you attached a Dark Apostle or High Dark Apostle, who allows the unit to ignore such results. In addition, it gives the Dark Acolyte (sergeant for Word Bearer squads) a chance at Dark Apotheosis.
- Made Word Bearers have a veteran statline.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5987296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5987296.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
I have also had my own ideas. Bear in mind that these are written with the 5th edition codex in mind and I have not had a chance to update them properly.

Alpha Legion

• All Chaos Marine units (not Lesser Daemons, Greater Daemons or Chaos Spawn) gain the Stealth and Move Through Cover rules for +2pts per model.
• An army led by an Alpha Legion Chaos Lord automatically gains the Master of Deception Warlord Trait. In addition, the Chaos Lord may roll an additional Warlord Trait as normal (re-rolling if he gets the same Trait again).
• The Alpha Legion player may force his opponent to re-roll one successful Reserves roll per turn to represent Alpha Legion agents working behind enemy lines.
• Cultists - The Cultists used by the Alpha Legion are highly trained specialists as opposed to the worthless rabble herded into battle by the other Legions. Therefore they are counted as Imperial Guard Veterans with the same point’s cost and options. They also gain the Infiltrate rule at +2 points per model.

Note that Alpha Legion Cultists may still not be taken as compulsory Troops choices and you may not have more Cultists squads than Chaos Marine squads. Alpha Legion Cultists are not subject to the Unholy Rage rule as they are trained professionals, not crazed madmen with little or no military experience. They may however take the Mark of Chaos Undivided at the usual points cost for a unit (i.e. 2pts per model).


Red Corsairs

• All Chaos Marine units (not Lesser Daemons, Greater Daemons or Chaos Spawn) have the ‘And they shall know no fear’ rule.
• Allies from Codex Space Marines are counted as Battle Brothers.
• May not take any troops aligned to a specific Chaos god (i.e. Khorne Berzerkers) or any Marks of Chaos (including the Mark of Chaos Undivided).
• Special Characters: Huron Blackheart, Fabius Bile.

Night Lords

• All Chaos Marine units gain the Night Vision special rule at no cost.
• Chaos Raptors may be taken as Troops in any army including a Night Lords Chaos Lord as long as the Lord also has a jump pack.
• No Marks of Chaos may be used.
• An army containing a Night Lords Chaos Lord may choose to sacrifice 2 Heavy Support choices in order to gain a single extra Fast Attack choice.
• Every Chaos Marine unit in the army gains the Terror Tactics rule below at 3pts per model. Every model in a unit must take it if any do.

Terror Tactics

The Night Lords are experts at spreading fear and confusion amongst their foes. Any enemy unit that takes a Morale Check from wounds caused by a Night Lords Chaos Marine unit (see units not included above) suffer an additional -1 penalty to their Leadership. If the test is taken as a result of close combat wounds and the Night Lords unit causes twice as many wounds as it suffers, this penalty is increased to -2.
In addition, all Night Lord shooting attacks with the rapid fire or assault weapon type (with the exception of template or blast weapons) are treated as having the pinning characteristic (see Warhammer 40,000 rulebook for details).




Iron Warriors

• No Marks of Chaos may be used.
• May not take allies from Codex Chaos Daemons.
• All Chaos Marine units (not Lesser Daemons, Greater Daemons or Chaos Spawn) gain the Tank Hunters rule at +3pts per model.
• Vindicators may be taken in squadrons of 1-3 per Heavy Support choice (but become a 0-1 choice).
• Armies containing an Iron Warriors Chaos Lord may choose to sacrifice 2 Fast Attack choices in order to gain a single extra Heavy Support choice. This may only be done once per detachment.
• An Iron Warriors army may take 0-5 Warpsmiths as a single HQ Choice. In addition, Iron Warriors may use Thunderfire Cannons from the Space Marine codex.

Word Bearers

• Any unit with the Daemon rule in a Word Bearers army may re-roll its reserves roll to enter play (including allied Daemons) if failed.
• Up to 3 Dark Apostles may be taken as a single Elites choice instead of HQ.
• An army containing a Word Bearers Chaos Lord may sacrifice 1 Elite, Heavy Support or Fast Attack choice and gain 1 extra Troop choice per slot sacrificed. This may only be done once. For example, the player could choose to sacrifice 1 Elite and 1 Fast Attack choice and gain 2 extra Troops choices. The player may not choose to sacrifice 2 choices from the same slot, for example 2 Elite choices.
• Gal Vorbak – The Word Bearers were the first Legion to fully embrace Chaos in its entirety and the first to give up their bodies and souls to daemonic possession. Therefore, possessed squads in a Word Bearers army may roll twice on the Possession table and choose which result will apply.
• The Word Bearers are infamous for herding thousands or millions of deranged Cultists before them in battle, even during the dark days of the Heresy. To represent this, the limit on Cultist squad’s vs Chaos Marine squads is lifted for Word Bearers armies. In addition, the unholy rage rule applies to Word Bearers Cultists even after the death of their Demagogue.
• A single Word Bearers Chaos Lord, Dark Apostle or Daemon Prince may take the Arch Heretic ability at +25pts. This ability may only be taken once per detachment of Word Bearers.
• No Marks of Chaos may be used.

Arch Heretic

The Word Bearers’ passionate oratory and fervent devotion to the Dark Powers inspires his followers to greater acts on the battlefield in hopes of attracting the notice of the gods themselves. All Word Bearers Chaos Marine units and Cultist units (not any type of Daemons, Greater Daemons or Chaos Spawn) within 12” of the character with this ability gains the Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy rules.

Changes to Chaos Cultists

Chaos Cultists gain the Unholy Rage and Beneath the Gods’ Notice rules below.

Unholy rage – When the Cultist unit fails a Leadership test, the Chaos player may choose to remove one model per point the test is failed by (e.g. 2 models are removed if a 10 is rolled) as they suffer the brunt of the Cultists Champions unholy wrath. The unit is then treated as if it had passed the test. This ability is only active as long as the Champion is still alive.

Beneath the Gods’ Notice – Cultists may not be taken as compulsory Troops choices and you may not have more Cultist units than Chaos Space Marine units (including Cult units) in your Troops selections. Cultist Demagogues are not subject to the Champions of Chaos rule forcing them to issue and accept challenges and may never receive Chaos Boons.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5988922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5988922.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
Still able to, and making, tweaks to rules, this is just trying to get the document set up and current rules to paper.






]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5994101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5994101.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers and charge on the same turn. That'd be nice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5995166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5995166.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
Deiyos wrote:
Why not one for World Eater? o.O It would be cool if they had something like the Nids are going to get where they can run and charge on the same turn. That'd be nice.


For now I figure they have most of the rules here except for Legion Tactics with Berzerkers and the Mark of Khorne. Biggest problem berzerkers have is transport, they need a not absurdly costly assault transport. Unfortunately, I don't think any marine army gets that...

Also, running and charging would be cool, but they removed that for 6th and the Tyranid stuff is still rumors at this point, so maybe Fleet would make sense, but running and charging might be a bit much. Maybe make charge range 2d6+2" or something if they don't shoot bolt pistols.

Update:
So like I showed above I'm putting stuff into a word document. Hopefully it'll be finished in a day or so and I can put up a PDF for everyone to critique. I made some minor rules changes in the book that aren't reflected here, but I made one big change, and that was giving Alpha Legion access to drop pods. I felt it was appropriate. 1st, they seemed to lack some of the OOMPH that their fellow Legions had; Look out sir rolls and bonuses for lots of legionnaires is nice, but it kind of seemed to pale in comparison to the other three, and seemed to sort of lock you into needing three units of cultists using saboteur to be truly effective, which didn't sit well with me because I like to allow varied playstyles.

So long story short, Alpha Legion, thanks to the fluff fact that they often operate in Imperial space and raid imperial supplies, get Drop Pods. Go them. Also, allowing them to buy Hellfire rounds for +2 points per model. With just Hellfire rounds they come in at 23 points a model, a single point over Sternguard. Add in their VotLW version and it's 25 points a model. I think that's a reasonably fair price. Justification for them having Hellfire rounds is same as drop pods, they raid imperial space and since Tyranids started showing up Hellfire rounds started getting produced, and they started stealing them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5995254.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/5995254.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
Also, feel free to use anything from my attempt at this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/538774.page]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6007527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6007527.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
 Marik Law wrote:
I like what you're doing here, far better than what I was doing. If you want somebody to pump out a really good looking PDF for these (and maybe the other legions) let me know, I'd be happy to do it for you.

Also, feel free to use anything from my attempt at this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/538774.page


Cool. I have a draft PDF set up, and will post a link as soon as I finish the fluff text for the four Legions. Critiques are most welcome.

In addition, I made a change codex wide, in that if you give VotLW to a unit from one of the four legions, they gain ATSKNF, to signify the fact that they once had Imperial training. Rules wise, it fixes one of the most complained about blind spots in the whole codex.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6011833.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6011833.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
DogofWar1 wrote:
 Marik Law wrote:
I like what you're doing here, far better than what I was doing. If you want somebody to pump out a really good looking PDF for these (and maybe the other legions) let me know, I'd be happy to do it for you.

Also, feel free to use anything from my attempt at this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/538774.page


Cool. I have a draft PDF set up, and will post a link as soon as I finish the fluff text for the four Legions. Critiques are most welcome.

In addition, I made a change codex wide, in that if you give VotLW to a unit from one of the four legions, they gain ATSKNF, to signify the fact that they once had Imperial training. Rules wise, it fixes one of the most complained about blind spots in the whole codex.


Hmm, sounds like a good stop gap, though to me just makes them too similar to loyalists. How about having it give Stubborn and making them immune to Fear? Just a suggestion, ATSKNF is a bit easier though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6013898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6013898.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
 Marik Law wrote:

Hmm, sounds like a good stop gap, though to me just makes them too similar to loyalists. How about having it give Stubborn and making them immune to Fear? Just a suggestion, ATSKNF is a bit easier though.


Would making them fearless, like the other legion elite forces, be better? I'm thinking of just making them fearless, since that will alleviate most of the morale problems Chaos players run into.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6013940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6013940.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
DogofWar1 wrote:
 Marik Law wrote:

Hmm, sounds like a good stop gap, though to me just makes them too similar to loyalists. How about having it give Stubborn and making them immune to Fear? Just a suggestion, ATSKNF is a bit easier though.


Would making them fearless, like the other legion elite forces, be better? I'm thinking of just making them fearless, since that will alleviate most of the morale problems Chaos players run into.


Hmm, maybe, though I think Fearless is a bit much and makes them completely immune to Morale which to me takes them from being psychologically vulnerable (as they are now, which is a problem), but I think Fearless may be a bit too far in the other direction (though I may just be over-thinking it).

In any case they definitely need to be immune to Fear. They're servants of Chaos and a good deal of them are crazy, they've seen and done things that would drive any Space Marine insane and hardened their minds to the mundane fears of the material realm.

I think the best thing to do is break down what ATSKNF does for loyalists and try to figure out a good Chaos version of this: allows them to regroup automatically after being broken, lets them perform normally after regrouping in such a fashion, and makes them immune to the Fear special rule.

To me, Chaos doesn't seem like the ones to make a tactical retreat: if they retreat they're retreating back to safety and away from battle. At the same point I don't see them as being completely Fearless as there are many cases where even the major Traitor Legions have tucked tail and ran. However, their exposure to the horrors and atrocities of the warp should have hardened their state of mind and made them far more resiliant.

Perhaps instead of rolling it into Veterans of the Long War create a new rule:

THE HORROR
The traitorous Space Marines who worship Chaos have seen all manner of horrors and committed atrocities which have left their minds numb to fear and low morale.

Units with this special rule have the Stubborn special rule and are immune to the Fear special rule.


A more complex version of the rule maybe could make it so that when their Morale does break, instead of just retreating, they act randomly for the rest of the battle unless they "regroup", as their minds basically snap.


A simple solution would be to, as you suggested, give units who upgrade to having Veterans of the Long War become Fearless instead of having +1 Leadership, as they're basically old enough to have endured the horrors of the warp and their own actions for an extremely long time, enough to dull their fear and senses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014266.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014266.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers CSM perfectly.

They are hardened to the horrors of the warp and their own actions so stubborn and immune to fear, but not so stupid as to hold their ground against impossible odds and hence not fearless.

This makes the basic CSM more reliable without making them imperial marines with a few spikes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014334.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014334.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
 rohansoldier wrote:
I think the Horror rule sums up CSM perfectly.

They are hardened to the horrors of the warp and their own actions so stubborn and immune to fear, but not so stupid as to hold their ground against impossible odds and hence not fearless.

This makes the basic CSM more reliable without making them imperial marines with a few spikes.


The only other thing I can see adding is allowing them to attempt to regroup regardless of casualties instead of regrouping automatically. Allows them to regroup regardless, but doesn't allow them to regroup automatically like loyalist Marines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014357.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
I think the stubborn rule and immunity to fear would serve them better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014479.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers CSM get it already.

Berzerkers, Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines are all fearless. The four main units are similarly veterans, so I imagine they'd get similar bonuses.

If those four units didn't have fearless, then I would agree that Stubborn + immunity to fear + inability to be swept, etc., would work, but since there seems to be a precedent for fearless, I kind of think that might be the easiest way to go.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014824.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
We would need to come up with another option for the Icon of Vengeance instead then.

Perhaps Rage or Preferred Enemy for the unit that carries it?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014838.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
 rohansoldier wrote:
That would be the simplest option I guess.
We would need to come up with another option for the Icon of Vengeance instead then.
Perhaps Rage or Preferred Enemy for the unit that carries it?


Well in the context of the four main elites units that comprise the four traitor legions for WB, IW, NL, and AL, I don't think it's really a concern. Berzerkers, Thousand Sons, etc., don't have the Icon of Vengeance option. They get their Mark built in, and then have the option for the Icon corresponding to that Mark, but not Vengeance. I guess the Icon of Vengeance is sort of already built in.

Also, in case it wasn't clear, fearless is built into the 4 units, NOT granted from VotLW, so you could still buy a Legion VotLW for regular CSM and an Icon of Vengeance, for example. You just wouldn't be able to for the four elites from the Legions.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014954.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
I think rage could be a good choice for the icon's effects. I can just imagine a bunch of fearless, hacked off traitor legionnaires going to war with the banner in tow!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014967.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6014967.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6015195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6015195.page GMT CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
In the rules as they're set up *right now*, subject to chance, which I will hopefully post a link to a PDF of shortly:

- The only units with fearless are the elites for the four legions, which mirrors the four marked elites (Berzerkers, Sons, etc.) from CSM
- VotLW - Legion X does not grant fearless, it's something the four units have inherently
- No unit that did not have fearless gains it
- No unit that had access to an icon of vengeance loses access to it

I think we may be talking about how to change Chaos Marine leadership in general to be better, and receive similar benefits to their loyalist counterparts, which is a fair debate to have, but I don't think it's material to the four traitor legions discussed herein, unless we wanted to change the base VotLW rule within the supplement, which I don't think works great here, because one goal I have with the supplement is to allow players to easily integrate it into their current chaos army, which becomes a problem if we change the base VotLW rule for everyone.

I agree that Chaos LD rules, especially regarding sweeps and regrouping and the like, needs a buff and overhaul, and that changing VotLW might be the most effective way to implement that, but that has not yet been done.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6016444.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6016444.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
So the 1st Draft of the PDF is finally ready to go.

Link to the PDF download page is: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/chaos-undivided-4-legions

Any comments, critiques, rules concerns, etc., would be awesome.

Front page picture:
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6018932.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6018932.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
Kol Badar fills in the non Apostle commander and a potential special rule for him could be a small buff to terminators (The Anointed), Marduk could be a buffed up Dark Apostle (Daemon eye, Jaruleks Crozius(The Maul of the Warmonger daemon weapon in the PDF), the Warmongers bolter and the option for TDA though fluff wise that would conflict with Burias because of the outcome of that battle...Could also consider the favor of Erebus/member of the DA council) and Marduk could have synergy with Burias, maybe a chaos version of Creed and Kell since Burias is his Hosts icon bearer? All the 40k era fluff points towards Erebus being a shadow and political player, plus he is going to get put out in the next HH book, so fleshing him out might be counter productive.

You can also go with Chaplain De Haan and his Sacrament of Hate (One of the earliest 40k short stories I read as a kid and got me interested in the Word Bearers ) I would love to sit down and figure out character blocks for these, and maybe some extra stuff for the Word Bearers if you want outside submissions. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6020987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6020987.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers
 piprinx wrote:
I downloaded the PDF and later tomorrow I will take a look through it, as any project fleshing out the Word Bearers for this edition is something I am very interested in. You might want to consider instead of Davroth (I had to look him up on Lex, never heard of him honestly) and Erebus, go full on Black library characters and go with Kol Badar and Marduk.

Kol Badar fills in the non Apostle commander and a potential special rule for him could be a small buff to terminators (The Anointed), Marduk could be a buffed up Dark Apostle (Daemon eye, Jaruleks Crozius(The Maul of the Warmonger daemon weapon in the PDF), the Warmongers bolter and the option for TDA though fluff wise that would conflict with Burias because of the outcome of that battle...Could also consider the favor of Erebus/member of the DA council) and Marduk could have synergy with Burias, maybe a chaos version of Creed and Kell since Burias is his Hosts icon bearer? All the 40k era fluff points towards Erebus being a shadow and political player, plus he is going to get put out in the next HH book, so fleshing him out might be counter productive.

You can also go with Chaplain De Haan and his Sacrament of Hate (One of the earliest 40k short stories I read as a kid and got me interested in the Word Bearers ) I would love to sit down and figure out character blocks for these, and maybe some extra stuff for the Word Bearers if you want outside submissions.


I didn't actually include SCs in there.

It's on the to-do list, so thank you for the info. I felt like SCs take a little more balancing, time, and since they're much beloved characters, more care than the units would, so I kept them out, at least for now. After all, if I come up with rules for Honsou, or Kor Phaeron, they better be very good ones, or else I'll have tons of angry people yelling at me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6020999.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6020999.page GMT Re:CSM 6.5: Chapter Tactics and Units for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers SCs, with that needing to be a long balancing act. The work so far is great though, and really makes the Undivided legions shine.

As an aside for core army stuff, I added a blurb to my previous post in an edit about drop pods for the Word Bearers after seeing them for the Alpha Legion, and gave a fluff justification as to why they might have them. No idea how that would work in balance though, and using that fluff justification would, in my opinion, lead to a justification to the IWs getting them too, and then the Alphas would need to get something in turn if that is a key part of their list, which I read might be the case in a previous post.

The Alphas though...Drop pods are a shock and awe tactic, the sky is burning, it doesn't really fit them. They are the space CIA, NSA, RHS, they are Alpharius, they don't announce their presence until you feel the knife at your throat. With the Mark of the Hydra they can get infiltrate, why not expand the saboteurs rules into giving you a choice between D3 saboteur cultists or 1 Alpha Legionnarires unit or something along those lines? Then it's a gamble for several weaker units or a guaranteed one stronger unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6021019.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/547859/6021019.page GMT