<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "- Small Squad Skirmish Rules - "]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
I've spent a long time on this forum, but this is my first time posting. To preface, I'm more of a modeler/painter as opposed to a WH40K gamer, mostly due to the excessive cost that Games Workshop inflicts on my sad, sad wallet. However, after a lot of Craigslist and Ebay deals, picking up models here and there for cheap, I now have a respectable force, enough to make a very low point army for any faction. The real issue is that most of my friends who are interested in learning WH40k aren't really about the long, drawn out 1 v 1 that is your standard game. What I'm looking for today is any special rules, both GW official and House, that could make some multiplayer small squad skirmishes a lot of fun.

What I picture is setting up some homemade terrain, some DnD boards, maybe one of these: http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?view=product&product=157 And then picking a squad of guys who's points I've already calc'd out (Snag a sniper for x points, two Tactical Marines for y points, and a Termi for z points) and then pit them against each other, playing king of the hill, objective hold, or whatever.

TLDR - I have a ton of minis, a few vehicles, and I would like to know if there are any rules that could make small skirmishes more appealing, such as:
- Rules for 3 - 4 players at a time (with smaller squads, this wouldn't take all night)
- Rules like "Every Man for Himself" where units are their own characters, and a player could use a single squad of Tactical Marines and still have a good time
- Rules like Attack and Defend, or anything where it could be 2-3 people with small squads defending against a large attack force
- Rules that make vehicles or single models more threatening in a squad based game (such as multiple wounds, rather than one shot and dead)
- Any other fun game modes that would be appropriate and not too intimidating for first time players.


All the time I've spent on this board has showed me the creativity and enormous knowledge base of the people on here, I look forward to hearing what you have to say!
Cheers,
Chris

P.S. - The models I'm working with:
Spoiler:
An Eldar Falcon, CSM Rhino, SW Razorback, IG Sentinel, and a SM Land Speeder Storm are the only vehicles. I have various numbers of Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar Guardians, Necron Warriors, a Wraithlord, several Terminators, BA Death Company and Sanguinary guard, a single scout sniper, a librarian and a force commander, several GK hero units, Kayvaan Shrike, multiple termagaunts and genestealers, and a carnifex. As you can see, I don't have a lot of a single faction, but more than enough to do some fun tactical battles with small units
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044766.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
1. In the 4th E Big Book there are rules in the back for kill teams. This is essentially squads of specialized hand picked soldiers fighting the guards to achieve an objective. There are rules to tool up the specialist with gadgets. As well as give the bad guys a boss, big'uns, and more squads.

2. There is a new rulebook out there that has rules skirmishes. Crowned as the 40k in 40 minutes rule set. I dont own the rules but i will try my best to repeat them. 200 points a team. No HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-1 FA, 0-2 Troops. No infiltrating (though may operate as scouts). No Deep strike. Must have at least 3 models. Before deployment pick three special rules and give one to each model. Following deployment, each models is now an independent character. This however leaves a couple gaping holes. What about Necrons resurection protocol? What about tyranids instinct rules!? Fret not. See opiton 3!

3. KILLZONE! A homebrew set of rules that addresses alot of those weaknesses set up in two. Its free. Its insightful. Each model is purchased individual (you will be forced to use basic math) It can be fun (havent found an opponent to try it yet). It uses randomly generated mission objective, some of which are not known to your opponent. The victor is determined by the obj, not the kill count.Here is the website for all the free downloads. http://wargaming-shenanigans.blogspot.com/

4. Mix them all together. I already have a solid grasp on older editions. I would use the special operations book for killzone to guide army building, filling in the army special rule gaps. Use the skirmish ruleset by GW for its every body is independent, and no deep striking. And use the old 4th edition cronies rule as a autonomous player that interrupts both players objectives. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044855.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044855.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules - this. Then, make changes as you see fit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6044861.page GMT Re:- Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
@Twoshoes - That Killzone supplement looks perfect, adding in the independent characters and no deepstriking rule sounds like it will fit the bill of just the type of game I'm looking to play! Thank you so much for the excellent response. I just have a few questions regarding those. Would it be reasonable to tweak the Killzone rules to allow for a single HQ with a point cost lower than x? I have quite a few single HQ units, like the GK Brother Captain, the SM Commander, etc., and I'd like to be able to work those in without breaking the game, if possible. That being said, if it couldn't be done easily, Killzone allows for MORE than enough customization to give your squad lots of flavor.

The other question is, since I don't have access to a 4th Edition rule book, what is the cronies rule? I tried to do a search on that specific rule but couldn't come up with anything.

@Happyjew - I stumbled across that prior to making this post, thank you for bringing it up. It looked to be what I was trying for, but I'm not sure if it was up-to-date or well made, so I'm glad to hear it is a good match. Having not played a lot of 40k makes it a little difficult to judge for myself, haha.

Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045646.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045646.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
Killzone looks like Kill Team with many of the bugs fixed, and would probably be good fun.

In addition, theres another Sci Fi game called Infinity. Sweet, free rulesets and incredibly tactical, plus it has amazing models of its own if your more into the P&M aspect. Could be worth using these rules with 40k models]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045741.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
Looks like Dakkamite beat me to it, I should take less time to compose messages.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045794.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
If your just learning from the rulebook, its not as easy, but still far easier than the convoluted tomb that is the 40k game rules]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045845.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6045845.page GMT Re:- Small Squad Skirmish Rules - 40k, I very nearly got into Infinity instead. The biggest deterrent was the price, and the fact that at the time, I would've had to order them over seas. I'll definitely have to look into that again, I had wondered if an "Infinity 40k" thing could be possible.

Even if I can't adapt everything, I could certainly take some of the themes and/or squad rules from it, since it was certainly designed with squad warfare in mind. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6047484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6047484.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules - IIRC...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048505.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048505.page GMT Re:- Small Squad Skirmish Rules - 40K, too. Aside from some of the balance flaws if you have some WAAC players, you can just ignore the squad composition rules and buy what characters and infantry you like from each codex, eliminate any cohesion rules, and the game will play very near to what Necromunda plays like, if you have any experience with that game (because Necromunda is based on the 2nd ed rules).

My first game with the wife is going to be a single squad of 10 Deathwatch marines (unfortunately there are no DW rules in 2nd, so they will be either vanilla marines or Dark Angels as rules are concerned) against some Orks. I also thought about getting the squad of Chaos marines and their Lord from Dark Vengeance, as that would make a decent squad in skirmish games of 2nd ed for around 20 dollars.

Ebay is a good start, though there are even some ways to get the entire set of rules in one go for 2nd edition on the net, but they replicate copyrighted info so I can't link to them on Dakka.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048723.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048723.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules - HQ, again with no upgrages, there's really no point in bogging new guys down with much more than necessary, I'd say get the basics down then play the skirmish variants.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6048823.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
 la'DunX wrote:
The price? I'm pretty sure infinity is cheaper? Not per model, but per "army". An entire "army" is about 10 models usually for small to medium games IIRC...


For NZ/AUS players, the prices aren't that different.

For instance, most Infinity troopers are $15 each, and range from 5-30pts of an army of 150-300pts. TAGs, ie Infinity Dreadnaughts, are something like $60 each and can range from 90-150 points.

From GW, I can get metal Kommandos for the same price, each 10pts of a 1k-2k 40k army. Sterngard Veterans, in plastic, are the same price ($80+ for five, good god), and their characters can be $80 each. An Ork Deff Dread is $100 and c.110 points, not to mention being super gak in game.

So cost wise, theres no comparison man... GW *can* be cheaper per model (but often isn't) and can be more expensive, whilst typically needing 10x the model count.

By getting a Combined army box or an Avatar TAG, you can get 150pts for sixty bucks. By buying random models @ $15 each and 10-30pts, you could get 150pts for $225 (all 10pt models) to $75 (all 30pt models), with the cheapest being perhaps two 75pt models at the same $15 bucks or so each (though I would not recommend using that army!). If I was to make 1000pts of Orks using just Ork boys, it would cost $833 (and thats not actually that out of the question, you *should* be taking a lot of Ork boys even at 1k), or to use an extreme example, just Ork Kommandos would be $1500.

The one saving grace of GW games is that so many people are quitting them every day as they churn and burn through children and veterans alike, that you can often pick up second hand models for relatively cheap. I'd say in that case the cost of an army froms from 10+x that of Infinity to maybe 3-4x, but the quality can vary drastically (and generally in a bad way)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6049058.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6049058.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules - IC. If you want any more details and rule fine-tuning, look on the GW website for extra rules. After all, why make new rules when there is something just like it already?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6049797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6049797.page GMT Re:- Small Squad Skirmish Rules - 40K 500pt games to keep certain unit types/characters from being overpowering.

It's a great way to field armies that are just a couple of very small squads of infantry, and a min squad of bike-type troops.

If you aren't hugely attached to the 40K rules, and don't mind playing games that have 40K flavor but use a completely different (rules-light) ruleset, try "In the Emperor's Name", which is an indie game designed for about 6-8 fighters per side.

http://iten-game.org/ ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6052548.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6052548.page GMT Re:- Small Squad Skirmish Rules - 40k!

@Dakkamite: No, the prices aren't really that different, retail. That being said, I've only bought one model retail, my Eldar Falcon. The rest, being broke as I am, have come from Craigslist and Ebay. Honestly, if it was straight up WH40k vs. Infinity at the store, I probably would've gone with Infinity, although now that I'm waist-deep in Imperium and Heretics, I'm really enjoying the style that 40k has to offer. Also, like I said earlier, I initially got into this for the painting and modeling, and since Infinity is only single figures (metal, I believe) that only leaves some rather sparse painting, at least compared to say, a full squad of Tactical Marines.

@AegisGrimm: Oh that's cool, I'd one day maybe like to play a full game of 40k also, but I'm not entirely opposed to learning a new set of rules, if it's more intuitive than converting 40k to small squads. I'll definitely check that out. Have you tried "In the Emperor's Name", can you weigh in on how fun it is?

Cheers all! And thanks again for all the responses, I'll be sure to post a Battle Report when game time comes around
- Chris]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6054588.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6054588.page GMT - Small Squad Skirmish Rules -
Very well written rules, easy to work out a list with basic math and suprisingly tactical when you only have around 10 men on the field.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6065490.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/551903/6065490.page GMT