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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ For those wondering at the Da Boyz label, there are some composition restrictions employed at Da Boyz.  In short only 2 of each unit is allowed - except troops which are 0-4.<br /> <br />  I also had another chance to get a game in with my <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GT</span> list and had my first game against the new Eldar.<br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Game Board</b></span><br /> <img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m7D7yePifTw/UktoSm-ZRbI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/kO5Cc2YtncA/s640/IMG_0001.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span></b><br /> Farseer w/ Shard, Runes of Witnessing<br /> <br /> <b>Elites</b><br /> 5x Striking Scorpions w/ Exarch and Scorpions Claw<br /> <br /> <b>Troops</b><br /> 8x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent w/ Holo Fields, Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon<br /> 8x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent w/ Holo Fields, Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon<br /> 10x Guardians w/ Scatter Laser in Wave Serpent w/ Holo Fields, Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon<br /> 5x Rangers<br /> <br /> <b>Fast Attack</b><br /> 5x Warp Spiders w/ Exarch<br /> Vyper w/ 2x Shuriken Cannon<br /> <br /> <b>Heavy Support</b><br /> 5x Dark Reapers w/ Exarch, Tempest Launcher<br /> Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, Scatter Laser<br /> Wraithknight<br /> <br /> For those who missed the tournament report with this list I ran<br /> <br /> <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span></b><br /> Fateweaver<br /> Herald of Khorne on Juggurnaut w/ Exalted Gift<br /> <br /> <b>Elites</b><br /> 4x Fiends<br /> 5x Fiends<br /> <br /> <b>Troops</b><br /> 10x Horrors<br /> 10x Horrors<br /> 18x Daemonettes<br /> <br /> <b>Fast Attack</b><br /> 18x Seekers w/ Aluress<br /> 17x Flesh Hounds<br /> <br /> <b>Heavy Support</b><br /> Skull Cannon of Khorne<br /> Skull Cannon of Khorne<br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Mission Parameters</span></b><br /> <b>Mission:</b> Crusade w/ 3 objectives <br /> <b>Deployment:</b> Vanguard Strike<br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Pregame Thoughts</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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This deployment is a bit rough for me - it is not as bad as Hammer and Anvil, but there is a lot of space for the Eldar to fall back into in a Vanguard Strike deployment.  My army is fast, but I am going to need some luck to get into an assault by Turn 2.<br /> <br /> There are two hard targets in this list and sadly they both have strength 10 shooting and/or assault.  I am going to need to be wary of both Wraith constructs - the only answer I really have to them is the Seekers and Daemonettes.  The Daemonettes will probably be too slow to engage the Wraithknight effectively but if I can get a Grimoire on the Seekers there is a good chance they will be able to hit the Wraightknight (or Lord) on Turn 2.<br /> <br /> There is also a lot of firepower tied up in vehicles - which means knocking out Wave Serpents is critical.  I can also kill a significant amount of mobility in doing so leaving only the Wraightknight and Warp Spiders as fast units.  Finally, I want to get the Fiends into it near the Farseer if possible - but ideally far away from the Wraithbone models since they can easily Instant Death out the unit.  Their primary role this game is going to be in soaking up overwatch to be sure other units can make combat to do the real killing.
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</div><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Psychic Powers/Daemonic Gifts</b></span><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> <b>Fateweaver:</b> Left Head (Forewarning/Spontaneous Combustion) : Right Head (Life Leech/Hallucination)<br /> <b>Herald of Khorne:</b> Grimoire of True Names - an Axe here would have been REALLY nice<br /> <b>Horrors:</b> Bolt of Tzeentch/Flickering Fire<br /> <b>Farseer:</b> Guide, Eldritch Storm, Prescience<br /> 
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</div><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Deployment</b></span><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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There is no Night Fight, which bums me out a bit since I think that if an army plans to shoot the snot out of me, it at least should start before breakfast.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rCWesb4_Qjk/UktoSpAYqDI/AAAAAAAAB0M/y_kT0zdwMkY/s640/IMG_0002.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I win the roll to place objectives and try to keep them clumped relatively close.  The Rangers can infiltrate obnoxiously on top of one that is out of the way or reserved Wave Serpents have a way of showing up on far out objectives too.  We end up with them weighted heavily to the left side of the board  - which is okay by me since I will either have them on my side or be sending my whole army at the Eldar anyway.<br /> <br /> I also win the roll to deploy and choose a zone that denies Josh a building to put his Dark Reapers in while leaving me close to all the objectives.  Centrally located I put the Hounds with the Daemonettes ready to move up and sit on the objective.  The Fiends are slightly biased to the right flank with the Seekers, both are fast enough to maneuver across the board but with the Daemonettes so close on the left I expect the Wraithknight to deploy centrally or biased slightly to my right.  Cannons are set on both flanks so I can blow away Rangers if they choose to deploy and snag First Blood.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TtD1Bc4TwG8/UktolEEAcTI/AAAAAAAAB0c/7Pl2A852WiA/s640/IMG_0003.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I reserve Fateweaver because there is no good <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LOS</span> blocking terrain and I do not want to lose him before he can take flight, cast powers or otherwise hide from S10 shooting.  The Horrors join him in reserve so they can drop down near the objectives later.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sCNDbc79dUs/UktosaE1LvI/AAAAAAAAB0k/y_GKXxHfJ_A/s640/IMG_0004.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The counter deployment puts the Wave Serpents in a line with the Scorpions infiltrating onto an objective.  The Dark Reapers are clumped in cover while the Warp Spiders sit in reserve to Deep Strike in.<br /> <br /> I scout forward and slightly towards the center hill with my Flesh Hounds to be poised for a big Turn 2.<br /> 
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 1-Daemons</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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Just kidding.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IPjOp2FgSdk/Uktow2QnBuI/AAAAAAAAB0s/J9N8ULUka4Q/s640/IMG_0006.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> A quick reason why this is especially bad for an assault army without Night Fight.  Although Turn 1 assaults are prohibited for units that Scouted - on Turn 2 the assault army will have had 2 movement phases to get into position and had to endure 1 shooting phase.  For an army like mine with 12" movement on all the primary threats - there are not many units that can stay out of striking distance.  Add in a 12" Scout and a run move, and that Turn 2 Assault is almost a sure thing.  Furthermore, there are several protective buffs this my relies on - okay it is really 1 buffs plus the possibility of a Warp Storm result.  I had planned to give the Seekers a 3++ save, which would have made them an extremely obnoxious target.  No more of that.<br /> 
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 1-Eldar</span></b><br /> <br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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The Eldar move up slightly to bring the Fiends and Seekers into their field of view.  I think to myself that I am a really good player for not putting Fateweaver into the line of fire.  The Farseer casts Guide on the Dark Reapers and Prescience on the Wraithknight.  He will do so unless otherwise specified each turn.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7djS5Y1y0f8/UktpBhF0MKI/AAAAAAAAB00/SHQZZIUZKVQ/s640/IMG_0008.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The Eldar unload their massive Twin Linked shooting on the Seekers and the Serpent Shields snag a ridiculous number of shots - 7 for the first two.  I cannot make a save for the life of me - I may have made 3 or 4 total saves the entire turn.  I lose the Skull Cannon for First Blood to the Wraightknight - in spite of using Fateweaver's one reroll a turn.  I lose the large unit of 5 Fiends (they're not dead yet in this picture.  they're getting better...) and I lose 7 seekers.  I also lose 4 Daemonettes.<br /> <br /> This game looks uphill already and there is an intimidating amount of firepower looking at me from across the field.<br /> 
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</div><br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 1-Daemons</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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I do what I had originally planned on and move just about everything forward in order to charge.  I want to try to grab a multi-assault into the transports and use the Khorne Herald to blow a Wave Serpent, then the hounds to glance out the others.  With 36 strength 4 attacks I have a pretty good chance to take down a few serpents - especially if the herald can manage one on his own at I6.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X9j0bEWD0Gc/Uktp474IbzI/AAAAAAAAB1A/nssvBzIVs78/s640/IMG_0009.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I am also going to take down the Scorpions with my Daemonettes to claim the side objective.  The really debated running the Seekers behind cover in this picture, but decided to go for the gutsy charge on the Wave Serpent at 11".<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3aIrI-urvgQ/UktqM_IVu7I/AAAAAAAAB1I/mGwWYVlCAOQ/s640/IMG_0010.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> My shooting only produced a glance on the Vyper - which was taken out later.  Luckily though the Chaos Gods favored me with a natural 10 to increase the resilience of my models for the next turns shooting.  The Flesh Hounds, Herald and Fiends made their charge though and I put a big dent in Josh's shooting.  His dire Avengers are then pinned in the wreckage.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0Q2kt98HLMs/UktqgXjZWXI/AAAAAAAAB1Q/qbC3lEXA724/s640/IMG_0011.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The Seekers in this picture are soon to be dead - they failed their charge even with a fleet reroll.  I knew that if I had made it, it would have been a hammer blow against my opponent and potentially won the game right there - unfortunately someone will pay for this bold move (hint - the Seekers are the ones who pay).
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 2-Eldar</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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The Farseer casts Prescience on the pinned Dire Avengers - lacking any other good targets - and the Warp Spiders decide to chill out at the bar instead of coming to fight.  They must have heard how good the Eldar Turn 1 was and decided to have another.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qhGRsDrvxS8/UktrJr3ZS9I/AAAAAAAAB1Y/NtIzkCvDY84/s640/IMG_0013.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The Seekers weathered an incredible amount of firepower due to their improved save - I regret not giving them the Grimoire - the unit seemed so small at the time, but it still had 33 Rending attacks in it.  Luckily, it takes almost his entire army to wipe them out.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XHE7JghsVbY/Uktrk4HlLlI/AAAAAAAAB1g/qe1CfCgoZfk/s640/IMG_0014.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> This is the rest of the Seekers wiped out.  I have lost a lot of my punch - an have almost no way to deal with the Wraith Knight - but it can only contest one objective at a time. <br /> <br /> <img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7pjpQQtY-Qk/UktsFLu44JI/AAAAAAAAB1s/mV4dOQb7QhY/s640/IMG_0015.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> In the meantime, the Daemonettes finished off the Striking Scorpions and decided to hide in the ruins.
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</div><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 2-Daemons</span><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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Is it only Turn 2?  The rest of my army decided to arrive - I wanted to keep Fateweaver out another turn, but it was not to be.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4vB9FqWSzvA/UktsOzTXt3I/AAAAAAAAB10/s2cbtWBJejQ/s640/IMG_0016.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> My scatters are good and I put the Horrors out of line of sight to the Dark Reapers but in range to knock out some Dire Avengers.  Fateweaver scatters forward so she gets the Grimoire this turn - I do not want to lose her to a Suncannon.  Finally, the Horrors with the beam lineup a rear armor shot on the remaining Wave Serpent.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yD0XHWrU-_c/UktsQ5A_mdI/AAAAAAAAB2E/x3rtcsrYX5Y/s640/IMG_0017.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I move everything forward and although multi-assaults are not as potent as they used to be, they are still a great way to clear multiple units. At the least I can try to get some Fiends near that Farseer.  In shooting I fail to cast my beam power, but Fate is barely in range to wreck the serpent in shooting while the Horrors knock the Dire Avengers to three models after Warpfire.<br /> <br /> To top it off, I roll another natural 10 for the Warp Storm and get 4+ saves all over the place.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YTnemj8cqM4/UktsQ-sj5VI/AAAAAAAAB2A/hj4LlCrbgPc/s640/IMG_0018.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> Order matters in assault and I put the Fiends into the Dark Reapers first - and manage to make it in.  I then multicharge into both Dire Avengers and the Dark Reapers - the closest models are some hounds but I do not take any wounds.  I then build a bridge on a REALLY good charge roll on 11 all the way to the Dark Reapers.  I do not issue any challenges and the Herald in conjunction with the Fiends wreck the reapers and force a really really horrible combat resolution on Josh.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NqdiDDRD27I/UktsQoQ7O_I/AAAAAAAAB18/Y4ANha469G4/s640/IMG_0019.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> All three units are swept off the board netting me Slay the Warlord and turning the game around.
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 3-Eldar</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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The Warp Spiders come in and the Exarch promptly kills himself in terrain on a bad scatter.  They try to knock down the Skull Cannon but only manage to take off its gun, which makes it angry.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dAy2p_t38So/UkttyBWwWtI/AAAAAAAAB2Y/EAvTlYZZ8iw/s640/IMG_0020.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> No other pictures this turn as units advance and shoot but my saves are hot and nothing interesting happens.<br /> 
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</div><br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 3-Daemons</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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The Horrors spread out and shoot the Guardians but only give them Feel No Pain.  Daemonettes take it into their hands and smash the unit.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LFC1YU6ikng/UktuUPMB21I/AAAAAAAAB2g/l_I1pNrwo30/s640/IMG_0021.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The Skull Cannon is looking for revenge and moves towards the Warp Spiders.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qfreh-m8EJs/UktuUnJFbEI/AAAAAAAAB2k/YbhcFB139fE/s640/IMG_0022.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I attempt to Hallucinate the Wraithknight but he denies it on a 6 out of spite.  Both beams manage only  single wound on the Wraithknight.  I figure Fate can sacrifice herself if need be now (she has a 2++) to keep the Knight busy.<br /> <br /> I get a 6-2 on the Warp Storm and reroll the 2 trying for a 10 or 12 but only manage to fail harder with a 1.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lUK9gN73S0Y/UktuVuJbr9I/AAAAAAAAB20/zY0wRC59GNo/s640/IMG_0023.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> The Skull Cannon makes its charge distance and kills off 2  Warp Spiders.  They fail leadership and start to flee into the hands of the Daemonettes.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FqcF8v1vLqk/UktuVR4L_sI/AAAAAAAAB2w/KF4Lz-C8wH4/s640/IMG_0024.JPG" border="0" /><br /> <br /> I put the Hounds into the Wraithlord along with the remaining Fiend sitting on 1 Wound.  I put 2 wounds on the Wraithlord and plan to kill it eventually with the Khorne Herald.<br /> <br /> At this point we call it, I have 2 objectives and might be able to run the Horrors to get 3 plus Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker in my reach.<br /> <br /> <b>Final Score is Daemons 8 Eldar 1<br /> <br /> Victory for the Daemons!</b>
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 4-Eldar</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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Game ends Turn 3
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 4-Daemons</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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Come on, you are reading this?  You know it ended.
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 5-Eldar</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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Chronic link clicking huh?  I bet you get all the achievements in video games too...
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Turn 5-Daemons</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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I do the same thing actually
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</div><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;">Game Thoughts</span></b><br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> This was a really really fun game against a great opponent.  I happened to be in town for a game and Josh volunteered to get me a chance against the new Eldar.  I was stunned at how much firepower they could put out - and that is without War Walkers in the list - although the Dark Reapers were brutal as well.<br /> <br /> I know there will be some critiques about list optimization - but I think the Eldar was put together pretty well.  The Scorpions and Wraithlord may have been 'less optimal' choices, but there was not much fat to trim from the list.  I made a few mistakes in this game, but they were relatively minor - like not giving the Seekers a Grimoire hit and my Fiend placement on the right Flank left something to be desired - they should have gone on the left to benefit from <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LOS</span> blocking and to be closer to the objective.<br /> <br /> Josh asked for some feedback on the game right after and I provided some but on reflection I think moving his Serpents 12" back instead of 6" was the biggest change I would have made on Turn 1.  It would sacrifice some shooting, but then Turn 2 becomes the do or die alpha strike turn and provides some additional shooting for a fighting retreat.  That said, doing so also leaves those units way out of position if the Wave Serpents die and may have made it impossible for him to claim objectives.  I am sure the Eldar experts will weigh in on this one, as I am not familiar with their playstyle.  Thanks again to Josh for the game, it was one of the closer games I have played with this list and has really made me consider a few changes.<br /> <br /> I like the Fiends, but I think a units of 6 Flamers for the unit of 4 Fiends might be a positive change.  I feel a bit cramped for points in this list - but I really feel like my shooting is inadequate in this list.  Maybe several Horror units can make appearances to add to the troop count - that change though requires more painting which is out of the question for the time being!<br /> 
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:32:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ calypso2ts]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well played. Excellent comeback from behind. You should  posted your army list.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 2 Oct 2013 03:24:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dozer Blades]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/4713b84d6c2b445ed1e4de5582a30396.png" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/555537/6107814.page"><b>Dozer Blades wrote:</b></a><br/>Well played. Excellent comeback from behind. You should  posted your army list.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Fixed, thank you for the feedback.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 2 Oct 2013 03:42:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ calypso2ts]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Thanks! Very much appreciated.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 2 Oct 2013 03:52:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dozer Blades]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Nice report. And very helpful, too, as I'm getting my daemons ready for a few upcoming tourneys and trying to gauge the playstyle of the new Tau and Eldar armies.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 3 Oct 2013 15:48:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tinfoil]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If you're wondering how to improve the daemons list take out the skullcannons and the fieds<br /> <br /> Add soul grinder/ 2 tzeentch heralds w/ screamers. <br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> Or princes/greaters<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 3 Oct 2013 17:42:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ jakl277]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I like the rules concept, but still allowing Eldar to take more than 2 wave serpents doesn't seem right to me.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 3 Oct 2013 21:30:07]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ herpguy]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/555537/6113359.page"><b>jakl277 wrote:</b></a><br/>If you're wondering how to improve the daemons list take out the skullcannons and the fieds<br /> <br /> Add soul grinder/ 2 tzeentch heralds w/ screamers. <br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> Or princes/greaters<br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Some of your recommendations I have experimented with until I arrived at my current list.   Here are my reasons I moved away from those options:<br /> <br /> Fiends<br /> They provide an anti-psyker bubble since Da Boyz <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GT</span> has rules that it is -1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>ld</span> per Fiend.  This means that Screamerstar that can kill 1 unit a turn is going to get to play with at best -4ld for a turn - maybe multiple turns.  They are also generically useful to minimize casualties with their -5 I, provide a decent number of wounds, are very fast and with Rending can take out transports.  How many armies rely on Psykers to produce off balanced overwhelming effects?  These guys are obnoxious - although not as dead killy as they used to be.<br /> <br /> Screamer<br /> I had Screamers in the original list - unfortunately 1 S5 AP2 attack does not cut it on a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> 3 model - I know they can be buffed with Prescience but even a full unit is throwing down 9 attacks for 7 hits, 5 wounds on T4.  Not exactly overwhelming for 225 points.  They do get their flybys, but with diminished <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>CC</span> ability that is not nearly as devastating as it used to be.<br /> <br /> Tzeentch Heralds<br /> Since you are really recommending the screamers for a Death Star style unit with the Tzeentch heralds - looking at them I can bring 2 and 6 screamers for around 450 points.  That semi mediocre configuration does nothing to deal with the units that really give Daemons problems - 2+ cover save assault units, 2+ cover save Aegis Defense Lines (or 4+ for that matter) or a lack of grenades across the board that REALLY adds to casualties over the course of 2 or 3 assaults.  Naturally there is a chance to get Perfect Timing on the unit - but in an already random army is that really the road to rely on to dig units out of cover?  Not to mention the intrinsic benefit of diffusing firepower that a Large Blast brings, since opponents tend to spread out against them.<br /> <br /> Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons<br /> Finally, I really think spending 250-300 points for a T5 Instant Killable 4 Wound model is crazy in a meta with massed S6/7 shooting and a lot of S10 floating around.  The Greater Daemons are good, but if I want a Grimoire, then it has to go on a model that is a huge target and cannot hide the way a herald can.  I actually like the Keeper the best of the Greaters since he plays a really nice role as a support unit with Telepathy - but still comes in fairly expensive.<br /> <br /> On top of that the Khorne Herald benefits from not being a psyker - which means randomly hitting a Grey Knight Storm Raven is not going to annihilate him from Perils.  This point goes back to the Screamer units suggested - which is likely to lose that Herald from a pair of Mindstrike Missiles.<br /> <br /> Soul Grinders<br /> I originally did have Grinders in this list - I actually did not like the way they played.  They are too slow when starting on the board to get into <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>CC</span> range - their shooting is good but only really effective against armies this one is already well suited to annihilate - <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(95);'>MEQ</span>.  That is unless I snag the torrent Weapon - but its inability to threaten immediately is a bit of a turn off on it.  The option then is to Deep Strike them - which removes the threat a S8 blast provides to open vehicles early on.  They are slightly better than the cannons against Vehicles - but the extra penetration dice is really made up for by removes cover and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> 5.  That is why I dropped them from the list.  Survivability wise the Cannons are definitely worse, but they also shave 50 points off for additional bodies.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 3 Oct 2013 22:24:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ calypso2ts]]></author>
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				<title>Daemons vs Eldar - 1850 - Da Boyz Gt Prep</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(325);'>Tbh</span>, that eldar list could have been much better!! his deployment was so so to, he could have charged the hounds with the big ones when deployed right and then focus all shots on the Slaneesh stuff...<br /> <br /> but none the less well played]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 3 Oct 2013 22:38:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Valek]]></author>
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