<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Blood angels VS Black Templars"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Blood angels VS Black Templars TT game. ( poll)

then, in your opinion which army is better at assaulting (IE in melee) in the fluff? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6137272.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6137272.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
Lore wise: Debatable but I lean towards Angels. Why? Because they got the Thirst and in general better combatants. Templars biggest advantage their numbers, apart from that they are just a little better in melee then the common Astartes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138018.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138018.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA get a 6th ed codex, I fully expect them to go straight back to near the top of the pile.

Fast units, furious charge for reasonable prices mean they'll turn straight back into marines +1.

Lore - Angels all the way. They are the cc marines.

I get the feeling Templars like cc, but it isn't their defining trait.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138062.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138062.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138181.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138181.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA definitely hold the advantage in hand-to-hand. But from tabletop experience, the last time I played against BT a jump-pack chaplain with some assault marines managed to kill 2 plague marine squads, a rhino, and 5 havocs before the game ended. The same game the Emperor's Champion thrashed my Lord with the Murder Sword. It was bad.

Against BA I've always fared much better, although I've only played them twice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138354.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 PredaKhaine wrote:

I get the feeling Templars like cc, but it isn't their defining trait.


Wait, what? Really?

 Orblivion wrote:
Blood Angels are better at assault in general while the Black Templars excel at individual melee combat, specifically swordsmanship.


This, I feel, is close to the truth. Still, I feel the modus operandi of the Blood Angels is to strike fast and hard, and then redeploy, using Jump Packs and the Baal Predator engines as well as gunships to relocate their forces on the battlefield. The Templars are more about getting into close combat and then staying there. As such, I wouldn't say that the Blood Angels are strictly better at melee (in fact, I'd say the opposite) but are just as effective if not more so when performing hit and run attacks, repositioning rapidly all the time to gain local superiority and then knock the enemy out with overwhelming force concentration. Or, to put it simply, the Templars are the superior melee combattants 1v1, the Blood Angels know when to strike and when to stall and wait for an opening.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138612.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138612.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA are fast. BT are numerous. And have a much better codex right now. BT all the way. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138669.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138669.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BT LRC 's as dedicated transports, expensive but effective.

Sweet crusader squads that can go all out on melee weapons.
Reroll to hit in challenges and rending.
Did i mention neophytes? :3]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138690.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138690.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 PredaKhaine wrote:

I get the feeling Templars like cc, but it isn't their defining trait.


Wait, what? Really?


I've always seen the BA as red rage monsters - they go in with a plan, but halfway through the battle it'd be entirely possible for them to drop everything and charge. I always looked at the BT as being more reliable at sticking to the mission.

Oblivion said it much better anyway

 Orblivion wrote:
Blood Angels are better at assault in general while the Black Templars excel at individual melee combat, specifically swordsmanship.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138700.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA spent a lot of time driving backwards ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138708.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138708.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
Martel732 wrote:
Before they got relegated to allies, my BA spent a lot of time driving backwards




I meant in the fluff ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138717.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA codex much better than the BT. We still get free missle launchers in tacs. But GL getting that crusader squad into combat with elders :p. I beleive. On average the skill of the assault units are equal. But the BT have mostly only melee units. While the BA have for shooty than the BT.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138815.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars MLs are still crap. Because MLs are crap. Everything else in the BA codex is overpriced, so you loose those points VERY quickly. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138821.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138821.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars Tac w/ missile launcher and meltagun 10 man is only 175


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also. missile launchers are good. Most MC won't get armor vs stt8 shot. They do well vs most vehicles at a very good range. And they have templates for hordes. How are they bad?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138830.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 raiden wrote:
Meh when we get the red thirst its worth the points. But 10 man assault squad w/ a power we sgt. Is only about 200 points. Tac w/ missile launcher and meltagun 10 man is only 175


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also. missile launchers are good. Most MC won't get armor vs stt8 shot. They do well vs most vehicles at a very good range. And they have templates for hordes. How are they bad?


Do the math. MLs are terrible against vehicles. They are a ROF 1 weapon that has to HP out the vehicles most of the time. Also, frag missiles are crap. So, yes, your statement about MCs is mostly true (although riptides laugh at you), but the other statements are not. With the new lascannon pricing, its insane not to use them.

Red Thrist is a non-advantage when you already have ATSKNF. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138938.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138938.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 PredaKhaine wrote:

I get the feeling Templars like cc, but it isn't their defining trait.


Wait, what? Really?

 Orblivion wrote:
Blood Angels are better at assault in general while the Black Templars excel at individual melee combat, specifically swordsmanship.


This, I feel, is close to the truth. Still, I feel the modus operandi of the Blood Angels is to strike fast and hard, and then redeploy, using Jump Packs and the Baal Predator engines as well as gunships to relocate their forces on the battlefield. The Templars are more about getting into close combat and then staying there. As such, I wouldn't say that the Blood Angels are strictly better at melee (in fact, I'd say the opposite) but are just as effective if not more so when performing hit and run attacks, repositioning rapidly all the time to gain local superiority and then knock the enemy out with overwhelming force concentration. Or, to put it simply, the Templars are the superior melee combattants 1v1, the Blood Angels know when to strike and when to stall and wait for an opening.


I always viewed this as how the Blood Angels approach combat as well, but I also imagine that as the battle goes on the Red Thirst grows stronger and stronger and eventually they are only using their speed to propel themselves into melee as fast as possible. Typically faster than their opponents can react ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6138949.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BA don't plus init anymore, so that's not how they are represented. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139040.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars dev team. But MLtake out AV 12 fairly easily for fairly cheap. And then can do well vs inf. I don't see how they would be bad. But I digress. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139070.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
Martel732 wrote:
But BA don't plus init anymore, so that's not how they are represented.


The discussion is regarding both TT and fluff, my post was specifically in regards to fluff. A change in one of the USRs that they use does not change the fact that a large portion of their design is based on speed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139127.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Blood Angels are better at assault in general while the Black Templars excel at individual melee combat, specifically swordsmanship.


This, I feel, is close to the truth. Still, I feel the modus operandi of the Blood Angels is to strike fast and hard, and then redeploy, using Jump Packs and the Baal Predator engines as well as gunships to relocate their forces on the battlefield. The Templars are more about getting into close combat and then staying there. As such, I wouldn't say that the Blood Angels are strictly better at melee (in fact, I'd say the opposite) but are just as effective if not more so when performing hit and run attacks, repositioning rapidly all the time to gain local superiority and then knock the enemy out with overwhelming force concentration. Or, to put it simply, the Templars are the superior melee combattants 1v1, the Blood Angels know when to strike and when to stall and wait for an opening.

Pretty much this.

In a nutshell, Blood Angels are Codex Marines with +1 to assault. Meaning they enjoy the tactical flexibility and adaptability of the codex astartes, but harbor a penchant for assaulting their enemy. Black Templars, however, sacrifice some of the tactical variety of the codex astartes for an all out specialisation/dedication to melee combat. They train from day one to smite with blade and smash face with fist and hammer etc. They burn with desire to meet their enemy face-to-face, above all else, every single day of their lives. They are literally medieval knights IN SPAAAACE!

In regards to the poll itself and the particular wording used:
- which are better at overall assault/assaulting the enemy, Blood Angels
- which are better in/during an assault (melee combat), Black Templars]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139211.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars FC and fearless. Worth 2, pts more IMO when you get it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red thirst gives FC and fearless. Worth 2, pts more IMO when you get it]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139492.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6139492.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 PredaKhaine wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 PredaKhaine wrote:

I get the feeling Templars like cc, but it isn't their defining trait.


Wait, what? Really?


I've always seen the BA as red rage monsters - they go in with a plan, but halfway through the battle it'd be entirely possible for them to drop everything and charge. I always looked at the BT as being more reliable at sticking to the mission.


Considering it's been a month since the Black Templars lost army-wide Rage you might want to rethink that. While it's entirely possible for the BA to act just as you described, it's almost expected from the Templars to do so. For example, in Helsreach (Spoilers, duh), when the Emperor's Champion finally gets killed, the remaining Templars abandon all thought of having an orderly last stand where they could kill as many Orks as possible before snuffing it and just charge the Orks to punch as many of them in their foul Xenos faces as possible in as short an amount a time as possible. Spontaneous rage is more a trait of the Black Templars than the Blood Angels, even though the Blood Angels runs the risk of going mad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142417.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars In fluff, which chapter is doomed by the fact that half its marines go mad and the main battle after that is trying to stop them eating the enemy?
And the successor chapters are as bad if not worse when it comes to raging that hard that they run out of enemies and start on their allies...
There are stories of entire companies giving into the black rage.

The BT may have charged in order to choose the manner of their death in helsreach (which is cool) but they don't have the schtick of rage that the BA do. The Black rage and the red thirst combine to give you a marine who pulls off your arms while trying to drink your blood, while also shouting expletives at some guy who's been dead 10,000 years.

On TT, its only since 6th hit that the BA got weaker. They used to just run straight up and hit you first and harder.
But anyway, that's just my opinion, I know you have yours and I'm not going to change that in 1 post so I'll bow out and let the thread carry on
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142573.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142573.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142649.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6142649.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars ML's free?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143108.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143108.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
jitactical wrote:
On paper, the BA definitely hold the advantage in hand-to-hand. But from tabletop experience, the last time I played against BT a jump-pack chaplain with some assault marines managed to kill 2 plague marine squads, a rhino, and 5 havocs before the game ended. The same game the Emperor's Champion thrashed my Lord with the Murder Sword. It was bad.

Against BA I've always fared much better, although I've only played them twice.


Haha you shoulda played my BA my sanguinor single handedly took out half the enemies army.(i made a mistake and most of my guys got shot of the field he was the only one to survive and he just went around killing everything)

BA are the best loyalist marines in CC. The World Eaters might have them overall but thats another topic. Against BT im going to have to go with BA except in a challange. i think the BT have the advantage there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143148.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143148.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars BT all the way, with cheaper bodies, dedicated LRCs for Crusaders and most importanlty Power Weapons/Fists that cannot be challenged out, you can almost play like 5th ed BA to a point.

Background?
BT still, the BA still more or less are a codex chapter, just angrier, whereas the BT tell the codex to go get frelled and fight great crusade style, meaning they not only are better at combat, but have better supporting elements and tactical options to get into combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143201.page GMT Blood angels VS Black Templars
 Krellnus wrote:
Tabletop?
BT all the way, with cheaper bodies, dedicated LRCs for Crusaders and most importanlty Power Weapons/Fists that cannot be challenged out, you can almost play like 5th ed BA to a point.

Background?
BT still, the BA still more or less are a codex chapter, just angrier, whereas the BT tell the codex to go get frelled and fight great crusade style, meaning they not only are better at combat, but have better supporting elements and tactical options to get into combat.


This, I think, needs to be emphasized: Blood Angels are still built around the Codex Astartes, with all the focus on flexibility that entails. Sure, they like close combat, but they're still a Codex Chapter. The Black Templars spend all their time training to get into close combat and thus excel at it, especially boarding actions and the like.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557149/6143291.page GMT