<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player DE army. I've played CSM and Tau over the past 3 years, so I have plenty of experience with 40k. For my DE army, I want to try something completely different from my normal Tau lists and have an almost completely CC army. I'm also trying to keep the army mostly fluffy, but I am willing to make some sacrifices in return for a better chance at winning.

Note: This list is not being made for tourneys. I understand that it is lacking in anti-air and that DE are very hard to win with. I am looking for an army that I will have fun converting and playing, while also having a decent chance at beating semi-competitive lists.

Here's the list:
HQ
Haemonculus Ancient (x2)
- Huskblade, splinter pistol, liquifier gun
Haemonculus (x2)
- Huskblade, splinter pistol, liquifier gun

Troop
9 Wracks (x4)
- 1 liquifier
Raider (x4)
- Dark lance, enhanced sails, night shields, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters (x2)
- 4 Beastmasters: 1 with agoniser
- 5 Khymerae
- 6 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1991 points

My thoughts behind the army: Put the Haemonculi with the wrack squads and turbo-boost them turn 1, assault turn 2. The squad will have 2 pain tokens to start with (giving FNP and Furious Charge), 2 liquifiers for shooting before assault, plenty of poison attacks, and an AP2 weapon to deal with characters and such. The beastmasters will run forward and absorb shots on the 4++ of the Khymerae. I'll use them to attack high armor targets (with all the rending attacks) or to tarpit units I don't want my wracks to deal with. The ravagers will sit back and open up tanks with the 9 dark lances, spilling out the squishy troops for my wracks. The whole point of this army is to be in the face of the enemy turn 2 (relying on cover/inv. saves on vehicles). I'm either going to win big by turn 4 or die horribly and get tabled.

Thoughts, suggestions, tactics that would help?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6142472.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6142472.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
Agonisers are the best option most of the time, wounding on a 4+ and AP3 is much more useful against better armored enemies.

Wracks are pretty useless in CC to be fair, their benefit comes from strength in numbers and Liquifiers. Also it is only a 6+ FNP so its no better than a tissue save.

To be honest I would stay well away from Wracks in general, yes they wound on a 4+ but as there is no AP on the base attacks I really wouldn't charge into combat with them. You would be better charging in with 5 Tyranid Hormagaunts and they cost much less.

If you want to use Haemonaculus in a fun way you are best to use Grotesques. They have a Pain token by default and you can add 2 Haemo's to them so they have FNP, FC and Fearless (which you need otherwise they go ape s**t.

What you would be best doing is going double force org and doing something like the below.

The list provides 12x Dark Lance Shots, 5x Blaster Shots, 6x Disintegrator Shots and 60x Splinter Cannon shots per turn. You should be able to bring down flyers with the 21 shots from the Dark Lance, Blaster and Disintegrators if you need to. Also as the Kabalite Warriors and Splinter Cannons are Poison Weapons they are great for taking down flying monsterous creatures, Wraithlords / Knights etc and anything with high Toughness as they wound on a 4+, you have a total of 80 Shots (120 with Rapid Fire) in the list.

You said DE are hard to win with, that isn't true in the slightest, you only lose with DE if you personally screw up or your list is too specific and tailored.

The list below covers most of the bases. Nobody is going to want to deep strike anything near you as it will die in short order and you can dictate range easily with all the Night Shields on the Ravagers and Raiders.

DE are hard to get used to playing with, you need to sit back and wait for a weakness to appear and then smash your way into it. DE are a very fun army to play but it can take some time to get your head around. Some people make mostly CC lists which in my experience are terrible, I charged 5 Wracks and a Haemo into some Chaos Demons yesterday in a game and got locked in combat with them for 3 turns and managed to only kill 1 unit in 3 turns. Considering Chaos Demons in CC are pretty much useless that is embarrassing.

EDIT: Redid the list as I messed it up

ORG 1

HQ
2x Haemonculus - 2x Liquifier, 1x Agoniser, 1x Venom Blade, 1x Stinger Pistol
2x Haemonculus - 2x Liquifier, 1x Agoniser, 1x Venom Blade, 1x Stinger Pistol


Elites
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifer, Raider (FF, NS, Disintegrator)
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifer, Raider (FF, NS, Disintegrator)


Troops
5x Kabalite Warriors - Venom (NS, Splinter Cannon)
5x Kabalite Warriors - Venom (NS, Splinter Cannon)


Heavy Support
1x Ravager - (FF, NS, 3x Dark Lance)
1x Ravager - (FF, NS, 3x Dark Lance)
1x Ravager - (FF, NS, 3x Dark Lance)


ORG 2

HQ
1x Archon - Blaster


Elites
4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster, Venom (NS, Splinter Cannon)


Troops
5x Kabalite Warriors - Venom (NS, Splinter Cannon)
5x Kabalite Warriors - Venom (NS, Splinter Cannon)


Heavy Support
1x Ravager (FF, NS, 3x Dark Lance)



Hope this helped ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6143414.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6143414.page GMT 2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
As far as what you have...

A hamey ancient is a bit overkill, and even with the stat boost hamey's are fairly mediocre in CC. Huskblades are very expensive for an S3 model(s4 on the charge but still meh) that really operates on being cheap and efficient. Hamey's work best with poison cc weapons, either the venom blade or scissorhand. Both will throw out a ton of wounds without breaking the bank. If you need ap 2 just use lances or your beastpack. You could also consider using Urien, as he will give your wracks pain tokens and is a beastly warlord in his own right.

Another HQ to consider is the baron. He has no model so you get to covert/scratch build one, and he is amazing. Put him in a beastpack for his various benefits, and watch them really shine. His +1 to go first is also handy for your alpha strike desires.

A normal hamey is ld8, which does not really help the wracks. An ancient is 9, but expensive. Consider an acothyst for leadership and another cheap but effective combat character. Also, if you take 10 wracks you can get the 2nd liquifier gun instead of having to bring a hamey to the party. Urien for the pain token and you are starting to save some points in the long run

Beastmasters are absolute garbage in CC, so never give them a special weapon as they only have 1 attack base(and no 2nd ccw). They provide leadership and bullet sponge purposes, nothing more.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6143503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6143503.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
@Shingen I definitely agree with you that I am lacking in Anti-vehicle. However, I want to stay away from using warriors in this list, as it is fluffy. I do have a more regular Kabal list in which I use Venoms, wyches, warriors, and such (which I will post later). I will consider using Grotesques, as they could really help with my anti-tank.

@Dr.Serling I'm going to rework my list to include Urien, as the free pain tokens for all my wracks sounds really good. I was disappointed I couldn't get 2 liquifiers on the wrack squads, but now I can. I'll also redo my CC special weapons and see if I can make room for Grotesques.

I'll post my list later today.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144269.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player

Double Force Org Again but might be more to your liking.

Plenty of Wracks, Grotesques and more Liquifier's than you can shake a stick at

Had to lose the Haemo's upgraded CC weapons though sadly. However 3x Liquifier's in the Grotesque groups should kill off pretty much anything in front of you.

Also, I think there are enough Ravagers here and enough lances as well

FORCE ORG 1
2x Haemonaculus - 2x Liquifier
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier, Raider (FF, NS, Trophies, Disintegrator)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier, Venom (FF, NS, 2x Splinter Cannon)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier, Venom (FF, NS, 2x Splinter Cannon)
3x Ravager (3x Dark Lance, FF, NS)

FORCE ORG 2
2x Haemonaculus - 2x Liquifier
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier, Raider (FF, NS, Trophies, Disintegrator)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier, Venom (FF, NS, 2x Splinter Cannon)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier, Venom (FF, NS, 2x Splinter Cannon)
3x Ravager (3x Dark Lance, FF, NS)



Yes its the same list twice, 1000 pts per list

If you want more Wracks you could just drop 2 Ravagers and take 2 more 5 man Wrack squads, you would have to drop 20 pts from somewhere else though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FYI Urien gives D3 pain tokens total, not to each squad, considering here is 190 pts its really not worth it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144511.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player MSU, plenty of anti-tank. My wallet is hurting just thinking about the cost of all those venoms , but I really like this list.
Question: How can the Haem fire 2 liqifiers? He isn't relentless.

Here's my updated list based on the first suggestions.
HQ
Urien
Haemonculus
- flesh gauntlet

Troop
10 Wracks (x2)
- 2 liquifiers, Acothyst with agoniser
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, enhanced sails, night shields, flickerfield

Elite
4 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, enhanced sails, night shields, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters (x2)
- 3 Beastmasters
- 5 Khymerae
- 4 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x2)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1991 points

I'd put Urien and the Haem with the Grotesques, giving them at least 2 and possibly 3 based on my Urien roll. I'm a bit worried about the amount of anti-tank in this list, even with the Grots.
Possible changes: drop the beastmasters and get another ravager plus more wracks/grots?

Thanks for the help so far guys.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6144683.page GMT 2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6145098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6145098.page GMT 2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
A flesh gauntlet is a bit overkill, with no AP the instagib won't matter very often unless you find yourself up against an MC. An agonizer is also nice, but a venom blade is cheaper and does plenty of damage in its own right. With points saved here you can get the hamey a liquifier gun and the grotesque squads an abberation for challenges. Give em a venom blade to ensure that you throw tons of wounds onto your opponent and wipe em out, while keeping Urien/your hamey out of a combat they should not be involved in. Alternatively, boost your beastpacks. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6146377.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6146377.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player Whoops, I'm glad all that high school math paid off.

Working on the list last night (instead of doing uni work), I played around with the numbers. I think the points for Urien are better spent on more bodies. While I like his special ability, I'd like to run cheap Haems instead. I dropped most of the expensive weapons and focused on numbers. I also remembered that using enhanced sails prevents me from shooting the liquifiers in the next turn. So I dropped those for a couple extra points. Here's the new list:

HQ
Haemonculus (x2)
- liquifier, venom blade

Troop
10 Wracks (x3)
- 2 liquifiers, Acothyst with agoniser
Raider (x3)
- Dark lance, night shields, flickerfield

Elite
4 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier, Aberation with scissorhand
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, enhanced sails, night shields, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters (x2)
- 3 Beastmasters
- 4 Khymerae
- 4 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1993 points

This list gives me more troops and allows more anti-tank. Questions: Is it worth keeping the agonisers on the Acothysts (for the PW) or should I save points and give them venom blades? Also, I think the scissorhand on the Aberations was the best choice because it gives me 7 attacks on the charge with 3+ poison. Is that correct, or should I go with a cheaper item?
Once again, thanks for the help guys. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147709.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147709.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
Math Hammer Time - You mentioned Math

I missed out the hitting part btw as it makes no difference...

83.3% chance to wound with a Venom Blade.
66.7% chance to wound with an Agoniser.

But the difference comes with the AP.

Venom Blade is AP - so Marines for the most part will still get their 3+ save so you will kill 1 in 3 of them. Total chance to kill: 27.8%
Agoniser is AP 3 so marines wouldnt get a save and neither would most anything else including Tyranid Monstrous Creatures. Total chance to kill 66.7%

Big difference, however when you look at points the Venom Blade works out better.

Venom Blade: 5.6% chance to kill per point.
Agoniser: 3.3% chance to kill per point.

Might be worse there but I would rather not take the chance of not wounding something like a Monstrous Creature, a Space Marine or anything with lower armor like Fire Warriors etc.


BTW I wouldn't run Grots with less than 2 Haemo's as you really want them to have fearless. If you look up their rules in the codex (page 39) you will understand why (Berserk Rampage). You want 2 really so that doesnt happen, plus with 2 of them and Altered Physique you end up with 3 pain tokens for Fearless which is very important as Grots leadership is basically none existent.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147820.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147820.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
Shingen wrote:
I would personally stick with Agonisers.

Math Hammer Time - You mentioned Math

I missed out the hitting part btw as it makes no difference...

83.3% chance to wound with a Venom Blade.
66.7% chance to wound with an Agoniser.

But the difference comes with the AP.

Venom Blade is AP - so Marines for the most part will still get their 3+ save so you will kill 1 in 3 of them. Total chance to kill: 27.8%
Agoniser is AP 3 so marines wouldnt get a save and neither would most anything else including Tyranid Monstrous Creatures. Total chance to kill 66.7%

Big difference, however when you look at points the Venom Blade works out better.

Venom Blade: 5.6% chance to kill per point.
Agoniser: 3.3% chance to kill per point.

Might be worse there but I would rather not take the chance of not wounding something like a Monstrous Creature, a Space Marine or anything with lower armor like Fire Warriors etc.



Your math is off.

Your first argument is the chance to wound. A venom blade does have an 83.3% chance to inflict a wound(5/6). An agonizer OTOH has only a 50% chance to wound(3/6). I think you mistook a wound on 4+ to be 4/6 to get 66.7%, but wounding on a 4+ means that 3 of the 6 die faces will wound, being 3/6 or 50%.

This alone starts to show the weakness of the agonizer, but the venom blade has something an agonizer does not-poison. On a venom blade if Strength is greater or equal to the toughness of the opponent, you re roll failed to wound rolls. This boosts the chance to wound of the venom blade to 97% if S>=T!

Now, you brought up power armor, which is a case where the agonizer will always win. The agonizer also wins out against 4+ armor. Against terminator armor, 5+ or worse the venom blade wins due to inflicting more wounds. With the poison multiplier the venom blade still beats out against 2+, 5or6+ while almost tying in 4+. Invulnerable saves further reduce the impact of the agonizer while the venom blade is unaffected.

Aggy Aggy vs Invul Venom Venom+re roll
6+ 50% 41.67% 69.40% 80.80%
5+ 50% 33.30% 55.50% 64.66%
4+ 50% 25.00% 41.65% 48.50%
3+ 50% 16.67% 27.76% 32.33%
2+ 8.30% 8.33% 13.88% 16.10%


This is a rough table of percent chance to inflict an unsaved wound . The second column plots the agonizer against an invul save if present, the venom blade is plotted against either type of save.

Now, when you factor in that the venom blade costs 1/4th the price of an agonizer a venom blade is a very attractive option. Clearly, if you fight marines left and right as well as 3+ armor MC's, an agonizer is better, provided they do not have an invul save.Ultimately the choice is yours depending on what you want. I would personally spend the points elsewhere.

Scissorhands are great on aberrations if you have the points and you are correct on how it works on the charge. Remember, you only wound on 3+ if you would not wound on a lower value, but if you wound on a 2+ you still get the re roll from poison. Keep that in mind. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6147991.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
 Dr. Serling wrote:

Scissorhands are great on aberrations if you have the points and you are correct on how it works on the charge. Remember, you only wound on 3+ if you would not wound on a lower value, but if you wound on a 2+ you still get the re roll from poison. Keep that in mind.

That was the plan. S6 on the charge (thanks to FC) should ensure I'm getting rerolls against most things.

BTW I wouldn't run Grots with less than 2 Haemo's as you really want them to have fearless. If you look up their rules in the codex (page 39) you will understand why (Berserk Rampage). You want 2 really so that doesnt happen, plus with 2 of them and Altered Physique you end up with 3 pain tokens for Fearless which is very important as Grots leadership is basically none existent.

I had read it, but I missed the part where the are removed after going berserk... wow, that's quite a frustrating rule.

I've added in 2 more Haem. Unfortunately to make room for points, I've had to drop a beastpack. While I now recognize the necessity for Fearless of the Grots, I'm now a bit worried about the effectiveness of only having 1 beastpack on the board. I feel like its going to get shot apart, but won't last long enough as a bullet magnet. I dropped the rest of the points I had left into it, but I think it might be too weak and a waste of about 200 points. The problem is that it's not enough points for me to take another wrack squad without hindering the effectiveness of the other units. The only option I have to replace the beastpack with another wrack squad is to drop the scissor hands off of both Aberations... I'm not sure if I want that. What do you think? Should I stay with the 1 larger beastpack or lose it completely?

Current List:
HQ
Haemonculus (x4)
- liquifier, venom blade, Warlord has vexator mask (I had 10 points and couldn't take any more beasts, so I bought this to keep the warlord alive for a bit longer in CC)

Troop
10 Wracks (x3)
- 2 liquifiers, Acothyst with venom blade
Raider (x3)
- Dark lance, night shields, flickerfield

Elite
4 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier, Aberation with scissorhand
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, night shields, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters (x1)
- 3 Beastmasters
- 5 Khymerae
- 4 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1998 points

*Edit to fix list mistakes*]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6148687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6148687.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
 Freytag93 wrote:
 Dr. Serling wrote:

Scissorhands are great on aberrations if you have the points and you are correct on how it works on the charge. Remember, you only wound on 3+ if you would not wound on a lower value, but if you wound on a 2+ you still get the re roll from poison. Keep that in mind.

That was the plan. S6 on the charge (thanks to FC) should ensure I'm getting rerolls against most things.

BTW I wouldn't run Grots with less than 2 Haemo's as you really want them to have fearless. If you look up their rules in the codex (page 39) you will understand why (Berserk Rampage). You want 2 really so that doesnt happen, plus with 2 of them and Altered Physique you end up with 3 pain tokens for Fearless which is very important as Grots leadership is basically none existent.

I had read it, but I missed the part where the are removed after going berserk... wow, that's quite a frustrating rule.

I've added in 2 more Haem. Unfortunately to make room for points, I've had to drop a beastpack. While I now recognize the necessity for Fearless of the Grots, I'm now a bit worried about the effectiveness of only having 1 beastpack on the board. I feel like its going to get shot apart, but won't last long enough as a bullet magnet. I dropped the rest of the points I had left into it, but I think it might be too weak and a waste of about 200 points. The problem is that it's not enough points for me to take another wrack squad without hindering the effectiveness of the other units. The only option I have to replace the beastpack with another wrack squad is to drop the scissor hands off of both Aberations... I'm not sure if I want that. What do you think? Should I stay with the 1 larger beastpack or lose it completely?

Current List:
HQ
Haemonculus (x4)
- liquifier, venom blade, Warlord has vexator mask (I had 10 points and couldn't take any more beasts, so I bought this to keep the warlord alive for a bit longer in CC)

Troop
10 Wracks (x3)
- 2 liquifiers, Acothyst with venom blade
Raider (x3)
- Dark lance, night shields, flickerfield

Elite
4 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier, Aberation with scissorhand
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, night shields, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters (x1)
- 3 Beastmasters
- 5 Khymerae
- 6 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1998 points
I think your list is looking pretty solid, if I may just offer a few suggestions: First you have 6 razorwings in your beast squad where you could only legally have 4, that might of been just a typing error, but if it wasn't then that's points you can use elsewhere.

Secondly, it looks like you invested a lot of points in vehicle upgrades. Since your running all wracks and grots your primary objective is going to be getting to the enemy asap, thus ns really wont play any significant role if any. Also I know a lot of people like using ff with all the 'ignores cover' weaponry people are using lately and if you are one of those people then that's fine I just personally can't justify spending that many points on something that probably won't at least statistically save me on most occasions especially when I can get the same chance of ignoring it for free with jink. So if it were me the only vehicle upgrade I would probably recommend on your raiders if any is enhanced aethersails, but again that will be your decision. However if you do make those changes that will allot you enough points to get get a five man unit of haywire wyches in a venom for some extra AT. Anyways hope this helped and best of luck! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6149091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6149091.page GMT 2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player

List looks good though now except the beastpack issue.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6149883.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6149883.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player 1) Thanks for catching that typo. 2) Thinking about it, I agree with you about the NS. I'm either going to go be far back turn 1 (where long range will hit me anyway), or in their face. Since shortening melta range isn't that important because of the cardboard armor, I dropped the NS.
However, I am going to keep the FF. My reasoning is 2 fold. 1) My local meta has a lot of Tau thanks to the new codex. And as a Tau player (since the beginning of 5th), I know how devastating ignore cover weapons are against skimmers. I've killed a ton of vehicles with SMS glances. 2) To me, the extra 10 points are worth it because the vehicles really only need to survive 1 turn and a 1/3 to ignore a potentially devastating hit is worth it. While it won't keep them alive for much longer, I think it will be just long enough. Plus if some survive, I can use the extra dark lances as the opponent tries to stop 6 CC squads from tearing him open.
To your comment about the enhanced sails: I originally had them in my list. However, if I use them it doesn't allow the raider or the squad to shoot the next turn. Since I've dropped plenty of points on liquifiers and need to soften up my targets a bit before charging thanks to overwatch, I decided to lose the sails. With a turn 1 move of 12" + 18" flat out move + 6" turn 2 move + 6" disembark +2D6" charge, I should be able to hit anything on a normal board turn 2 without the sails.

After dropping the NS and the Vexator mask, I put the rest of the points into the beastpack to try to make it as tough as possible. While I considered adding a fiend, I think the additional 4++ from the Khymerae will be more effective.

HQ
Haemonculus (x4)
- liquifier and venom blade each

Troop
10 Wracks (x3)
- 2 liquifiers, Acothyst with venom blade
Raider (x3)
- Dark lance, flickerfield

Elite
4 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier, Aberation with scissorhand
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance, flickerfield

Fast
Beastmasters Pack:
- 5 Beastmasters
- 9 Khymerae
- 6 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1998 points

Any suggestions? Do you think the beastpack will be effective now with 9 4++ saves to drop wounds on and 30 base rending attacks?

Also since the list seems to be narrowing down, I've been thinking about how I want to model these units. I really dislike using finecast and definitely can't afford it. Since I love to convert, I've been thinking of some alternatives. I've seen some great conversions of Ogre bulls into Grotesques using greenstuff and tyranid parts. I was thinking about using WHF ghouls as wracks because they look deformed and nasty, probably adding on vials and some "improvements" ala tyranid parts again. As for the beast pack, the most common conversion for Khymerae is dire wolves + hormagant parts. Not sure what to make the razorwing flocks from yet... but I'll keep looking around. I think using these alternatives (along with secondhand sites like ebay) will keep my costs relatively low for GW.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6150830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/557450/6150830.page GMT Re:2k Dark Eldar Haemonculus List: Advice for new DE player
Also enhanced aethersails don't disallow you from shooting in your next shooting phase its only on the shooting phase in which you used the sails in the prior movement phase, which you would lose anyways assuming you turboboost., but your right most times you won't really need them, I just like adding them on in case of hammer and anvil.
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