http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net First, the rules: 2000 points per army, of which 500pts must be troops. No more than 750pts of the remaining 1500pts may be flyers. No rules on force organization other than that (obviously I can't bring more than 1 of any named hero)
Second, the reason why I'm asking for help: my friend (a Dark Eldar player) wants to try out apocalypse, but feels nervous about doing his own army because a) he doesn't know the rules very well and b) he barely has 2000pts of DE, and it wouldn't make a very apocalypse ready army considering the force organization outline above. The idea is that he will "assist" me, and I will create 2 lists: a single 2000pts list, and a double 4000pts list in case there are odd numbers at the game.
Third, my current armor
-9 hammerhead/skyray/devilfish (about 1800pts as hammerheads once I put them as apocalypse formations and upgrade them)
-9 battlesuits, 2 riptides, 2 squads of stealth suits, 2 squads of pathfinders

Question: I know I have enough troops (about 120 kroot and 60 fw) to bulk it out to 4000 pts, but considering the organizational rules allowing 1500pts of armor per player, is my 4000pts really competitive in this situation? Keep in mind there are usually 2 reavers as regulars, and 3 ork players with stompas.

PS: I have really bad luck with kroot (they have actually died more times then the number of games I have used them in, which is actually impressively bad), so any ideas on how to make them less sucky is also nice
PPS: Is the riptide wing a good idea? I could always buy a third one.....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6158055.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6158055.page GMT apoc game is just have fun. I bring silly lists and units all the time and I normally have a blast.

So it if sounds like a fun list bring it! =)

(First apoc game I had with the new apoc book I brought the Purifier formation. They got wiped turn 2 by a baneblade and blast weapons. Still had a lot of fun because I penetrated his baneblade with a psycannon =p)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6158456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6158456.page GMT apoc games. They are my favorite part of 40k by far. Based on about 10 apoc games over the past 2 years, here's what I typically run.

1) 9 Hammerheads.
- Always run these guys, in as many formations as possible. You know why, and those ork stompas will learn very quickly.
2) Individual suits
- Split these up into a squad of 1 suit and 2 shield drones. They will be much more effective as individuals and give less of a footprint. Typically I kit them out with 2 fusions and DS them behind the biggest enemy vehicles. Make sure you talk with your allies and concentrate fire between armies.
3)Fire Warriors
- They've gotten better with the new codex and 6th Edition. I typically run a lot of FW and use them to defend home objectives. Thanks to the (mostly) army-wide rule support fire, FW can be a great objective defender. This will also allow your allies to bring less troops and focus on damage. As for markerlights, if you have the points add them. Extra markers never hurt. But they are one of the last things I add to my apoc lists. Usually you can get by fine using the markerlights given by the HH formations and pathfinders.
4) Piranhas
- If you have any, I would really recommend using them. Turbo the first turn for a nice cover save, then turn 2 use them to fusion apart any important vehicles. Great suicide units. Make sure you run them individually though.
5) Riptides
- I don't have any, but pretty much anyone on dakka will confirm that they are good. Run them as you usually do.

Unfortunately, I don't own the new apoc book yet, so I don't know the new tau formations or which ones transferred. In my group we allow old datasheets as long as they weren't updated in the new book. If they let you, I would recommend "Pathfinders Long Range Infiltration". It's a stealth optimized devilfish and 1-3 pathfinder squads in devilfish. While you'll lose a HH formation, it more than makes up for it. The stealth devilfish gives the pathfinders stealth field generators, the whole formation can be deployed 6" away from enemy models without DS, and (best of all) if you have 3 markerlights on a model within LOS you can use them to allow ANY friendly model hit on 2+ for the WHOLE TURN! This can be done multiple times a turn. One of my favorite formations to pair with the pathfinders' markerlights and the HH formations. (Note: the devilfish replace their gun drones with marker drones for even more lols)

I typically run 6 HH in 2 apoc formations, 6 squads of 12 FW, 18 BS with 2 fusion and 2 gun drones each, the Pathfinder formation, and a couple of piranhas. This usually puts me at right around 4000 points and is always fun to play.
Hope this helped! Make sure to take pictures and post a battle rep. There aren't enough apoc battle reps on dakka.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6159164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6159164.page GMT I'll try to post a bat.rep: game is November 7, so maybe on the 8th or 9th.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6160595.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558295/6160595.page GMT