<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM SM codex (coupled with a boatload of Sternguard, because they are (to me) the most versatile unit around). One librarian each goes with each unit of Sternguard. Tiggy's group gets Divination for sure, and hopefully some combination of 4++/FNP/Invisiblity/Ignore Cover/Enfeeble what-have-you. The guy can get me just about any power I want. The other two Librarians roll Telepathy in hopes of Invisibility, but psychic shriek is a good fallback. Marines hit the field first if I need to sweep armor, but I'll always be trying to put one squad of sternguard on the board.

Thoughts? Viability? Yes, it's AA capabilities are nonexistent.

Primary
HQ
Tigurius

Librarian
  • Mastery 2


    • Elite
    8x Sternguard
  • Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod


    • 8x Sternguard
  • Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod


    • Troops
    5x Tactical Squad
  • Meltagun, Drop Pod


    • 5x Tactical Squad
  • Meltagun, Drop Pod


    • 5x Tactical Squad
  • Meltagun, Drop Pod


    • Allies - (Tactics to be determined)
    HQ
    Librarian
  • Mastery 2


    • Elite
    8x Sternguard
  • Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod


    • Troops
    5x Tactical Squad
  • Meltagun, Drop Pod
    • ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169481.page GMT     Re:Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM
    You also have a glaring lack of anti-tank. 4 meltas aren't going to do much against any army.

    I'd drop the 3rd unit of 8 sternguard, bump the other two up to 10 and give them at least 3 combi-melta/plas (don't mix and match though).
    This way your sternguard can combat squad. The combi's take on armor or transports, and the heavy flamer and bolters dismantle it's contents or go after another target.

    That being said, I don't think pod lists and Librarians have good synergy. The best thing about librarians is their force-multiplying capabilites, and none of those abilities will be available to you the turn you drop. Which just so happens to be when you need those powers the most.

    If you want to do Libby spam, I'd suggest establishing solid fire bases (Devs or Dev Cents) and buffing them with your psychic abilities. Biker libby's also make for nasty units. Prescienced grav guns nom on just about anything in your way.
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169633.page GMT     Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM
    This seems like a rather irritating debilitation.

    My other concept for the list would have the Librarians arrive in tactical pods with Legion of the Damned coming down second turn over Sternguard. The Librarians would then buff and move over into the Legion squads, voiding the need for Perfect Timing or Forwarning and allowing me to focus on offensive psychic powers (Enfeeble, Psychic Shriek, Smite) or grant further complimentary defensive powers (Endurance, Invisibility). Granted I don't have the first turn powers, but Tigurius' Storm of Fire trait and the Tactical Doctrine can make a pretty devastating first strike.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Ah, I located the prohibitive rule. Curse you, GW.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169688.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169688.page GMT     Re:Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM iirc. Tiggy can get around it with his Warlord Trait on that one turn to give prescience which is cool.

    Fact of the matter is though, Tiggy is the only Librarian in the Codex worth taking. If all of his rolls go on Divination all three of his powers will be effective, because literally the only power in that tree that sucks is Scriers Gaze, which you can just exchange for Prescience.

    Meanwhile non-Tiggy Libbies don't get Divination, and since the other trees have 'meh' Primaris powers and 1-3 naff or mediocre powers they are far too varied in effectiveness to be worth it. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the MoTF is a far superior choice to the Lvl 2 Libby, especially since you're taking Sternguard and especially since he wouldn't be your Warlord.

    The biggest problem with your list is that you'd have a very hard time dealing with vehicles and MC's. At the very least I would add a couple of combi-weapons.
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169921.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6169921.page GMT     Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM FW or Crisis Suits hard), Terrify makes plague zombies suddenly terrible objective campers, Invisibility and Hallucination are both very useful. Biomancy stars for group benefit are Enfeeble and Endurance while Life Leech and Smite both are decent compliments to a shooting squad.

    As for a weakness to MCs, I direct you to three force weapons and twenty-four bolters capable of firing Hellfire Bolts.

    The vehicle weakness is hardly very evident. Four meltas aren't the best, but they'll certainly mince AV14 on the drop. Past that every single marine is equipped with Krak Grenades, which do a fine job of dealing with the rest (since assault hits rear armor, the only threat here is an AV13 walker). Of course dropping a Sternguard from each pod would give me 66pts worth of combi weapons to sprinkle around, which is a worthy sacrifice.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170175.page GMT     Re:Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM
    Most MCs are going to beat a librarians face in before he even has a chance to wound, and even then wounding with an AP4 staff is far but guaranteed. The hellfire rounds are nice, but you still more high strength/low ap weaponry in there.

    You posted for c&c yes? We've told you the weaknesses your list has and you are ignoring them.

    Here's another problem with the Tiggy in drop pod gimmick: You are almost guaranteed to give up slay the warlord in every game you play. He'll be in a squad of between 8 and 5 squishy marines that will be in range of nearly every weapon in your opponent's army. If your opponent wants them to die, they will die. There's a good chance you don't even get to use any of his powers turn 2.

    An all pod list hast to do an overwhelming amount of damage on the drop in order to have a chance to win. This list does not supply the capability for such damage.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170241.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170241.page GMT     Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM
     obsidiankatana wrote:
    I beg to differ on all other disciplines being meh. Telepathy bosts a good number of very appealing powers. Psychic shriek can be utterly devastating (and wrecks a group of FW or Crisis Suits hard), Terrify makes plague zombies suddenly terrible objective campers, Invisibility and Hallucination are both very useful. Biomancy stars for group benefit are Enfeeble and Endurance while Life Leech and Smite both are decent compliments to a shooting squad.

    As for a weakness to MCs, I direct you to three force weapons and twenty-four bolters capable of firing Hellfire Bolts.

    The vehicle weakness is hardly very evident. Four meltas aren't the best, but they'll certainly mince AV14 on the drop. Past that every single marine is equipped with Krak Grenades, which do a fine job of dealing with the rest (since assault hits rear armor, the only threat here is an AV13 walker). Of course dropping a Sternguard from each pod would give me 66pts worth of combi weapons to sprinkle around, which is a worthy sacrifice.


    Psychic Shriek, Terrify and Puppet Master are situational powers. Life Leech and Smite are meh. Half the appeal of Enfeeble evaporates when 3/4 of your army can fire rounds which always wound on 2's anyway. Endurance, Iron Arm and Warp Speed don't fit well with the crappy stat line of the Libby who'll probably die all the same.

    They don't even begin to compare to always getting a pair of flamers and a TL PP, or a trio of S7 AP2 shots, one TL and all at BS5 with a flamer in my opinion, and that's before you consider all the other perks. Hellfire rounds may knock a few wounds off MC's but you need to kill them outright, because if you don't they'll waltz right through your 300~ point unit. Therefore you're having to put between 500-600~ pts worth of models just to kill a single enemy model that costs a third of the points. Against Riptides you haven't got a hope in hell because you're scoring about 1.3~ wounds in rapid fire range with each squad, and that's IF they don't interceptor you into oblivion.

    A single meltagun firing at a Land Raider has a 1 in 5 chance of killing it, IF they get within 6''. Therefore even if all your meltaguns got within 6'' (not going to happen unless he's a complete twit and you forgo the arrival of your Sternies) you'd still have a less than average chance of killing it.

    Krak Grenades are circumstantial and rely on A) An assault actually making it there and B) Your opponent screwing up and presenting vehicles to you to destroy. ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170279.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170279.page GMT     Librarians! 1500pts UM/SM LD 10 units. Enfeeble allows me to fire AP4 or 3 rounds and wound on 3's versus wounding on 2's an allowing armor, easily a trade I'll make.

    Riptides are notoriously impervious to damage, everyone knows this. I'd need to dedicate something like six rapid-firing plasmaguns to have even a hope in hell of bringing it down, which requires three units of tacticals to bring or sixty points in combi-weapons that don't assist in the armor problem you think exists.

    Yes, each melta has a one-in-five shot of cracking and blowing up AV14, but that is far from the only result. A stunned land raider is almost as ineffective, as is an immobilized one. Even if the unit within disembarks to assault, they get to kill a five man tac squad. Good job, I guess? That's probably a 300pt unit assaulting out of a 250pt box, that just killed a 115pt investment. Which at 1500 is a third of the list that gets to be shot to bits by the rest of my army.

    Krak Grenades are an option I'm given for free, and see no problem in relying on them to do their job - glance down a vehicle in assault. With the saturation of pods and bodies cornering a vehicle shouldn't be too big a problem, and making an assault is a problem faced by literally every unit that WANTS to assault. Something that can be aided by using Assault Doctrines courtesy of UM.

    I admit that the list has weaknesses, but I feel like you're rather blinded by the MotF and meta norm. Divination and Plasma aren't the end-all, and assuming my opponent tailored to my weaknesses is similarly a flawed argument. The day I face a riptide and land raider at 1500 is surely the day I'll suffer, unless I get one good round of shooting in at either, since both are enormous point sinks at this list value.

    I can very well go with dropping three sternguard to take up three combi-meltas and three combi-plasmas sprinkled around, or drop the units altogether in favor of more beefed tac squads with plasmas and combi-meltas and take three Legion Squads. The focus of this list is to present each Librarian with a unit to increase the effectiveness of, and I feel Sternguard are the most versatile recipients to the force-multiplication.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/558906/6170479.page GMT