<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GM so I can make Interceptors and Dredknights scoring. For my troops I was going to take minium Strike Squads with Psycannons and deep strike them in. I can use the GM to get them in faster or slower depending on what I want to do in the mission. He can also help to stop enemy flyers from arriving and ruining my day.

So questions are how do I tool up the GM. I'm thinking of just giving him an Orbital Bombarment and keeping in the back field. For the Dredknights what the best load out I want to atleast run them with Heavy Incinerators. The Interceptors I want to give Psycannons and psybolt ammo and keep them at a distance of 19-24" from the enemy to keep out of rapod fire range. Does any one have any good in put to help me out. I usually play games at 1850pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6274410.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6274410.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please

I run a shunt list myself and believe I can help you well with this. The purpose of a shunt list is to be in your opponents face with so much stuff that they can't bear to be able to handle it all. The initial strike is generally not to devastating but the turn after should be. Something slips through and begins to cause havoc in hand to hand combat.

Now as for what you want shunt list to consist of are pretty much interceptors, dread knights, storm ravens, and possibly some allied detachments with drop pods, eldar bikers, of some kind, flyers of some-kind. you want to have henchmen as a cheap source of troops to grab objectives(Coteaz is pretty much a must bringer to make them troops) as delving into strikes and terminators only starts costing you points and you want as much speed as you can possible get.

The Grandmaster
don't take him simple as that... in a shunt list, the units you are shunting hardly ever make it to end game to grab objectives. They are either dead or locked in combat somewhere hopefully having taken down or tied up a good portion of their army. In addition as the grandmaster is a foot sloggers 175 pts worth he will be left behind.

Coteaz
He's ur man. cheap source of henchmen for troops can give out psychic powers as he rides around in a transport or sits on an objective.

Paladins
they are the absolute opposite of what you are looking for here.... they are cumbersome slow... and not that though anymore due to the massive str6+, rending, poison, str8, ap2 3 Firepower and MC's out there. At that they can't even score without draigo so these guys are pretty much worthless to you in a shunt list other than protecting coteaz although I'd advise termis over paladins for protecting coteaz if you decide on some kind of 2+ save variant... as at least termis are scoring...they cost much less... and will be practically just as affective as pallies.

Purifiers
No.... Just NO... unless your looking rhino spam in which case.. you wouldn't be running a shunt list anymore

Termis
went over above

Strikes
No... just no... you want interceptors as your base not strike squads.... I wouldn't even take these guys with 1-200 points to spare...psyback spam henchmen squads to present more targets, get more long ranged fire, grab multiple objectives, and cause grounding checks on MC'S/ take out flyers would be a much better point investment.

Interceptors
These are your 1 of the 2 primary units you will be using for this force... You dont want them 19"-24" shooting... they cost more than strikes... have the same survivability when shooting from afar. They have more increased survivability of strike squads in that they can get into combat and take much less wounds from shooting and really put ther t4 3+ armor saves to work against all these geq and meq armies. you can outfit them with 2x psycannons or 2x incinerators... just know that an interceptor squad outisde of combat usually doesn't last too long... you want them in hand to hand almost anytime you get the chance. I go for incinerators as everything in this edition wants cover saves.. and moreover commonly find myself out numbererd 70-45ish models on the field. generally those extra 25 or so models are cheap infantry so I take flamers on everything I could to be able to put out as many wounds with no armor saves as possible and try and get those armies to start taking moral test. Moral test are so important this edition as many armies castle up and are right there to run off the board edge so a failed moral test might be difference in a win or a loss. Gotta live and love those moments where you send 15+ guardsman, tau, nid, or guardian units off the table. you should generally have at least 1 or 2 of these

Storm Raven
perfect for shunt list. They provide plenty of fire power if completed out with the MM, AC, hurricane bolters and psybolts 255 pt shubang. They make a nice tank hunter and anti-flyer support as well.
1 or 2 of these if you want though they come after dread knights and interceptors.

Dreadknights
probably the most important units in a shunt list. These guys are what put on the pressure as just one of these guys getting free could result in a win, in that the dreadknight goes bouncing off units sweeping them up hopefully on your opponents turn and providing you with a str 6 ap4 flamer template that can be place within 12" of you. all shunt list should compose of at least 2 of these.

generally the average list just filling up the basic components is like

coteaz 100
2x 5 henchmen w bolters in psybacks 150
or you could go 3 with nothing although if the psyback explodes 5 has a much better chance of having a couple survive to scurry on to an objective than 3
1 x10 interceptors 300
2x incinerators
2x dreadknights 470
PT, HI

Point Total
1020

so that's about the bare bones minimum after that it it totally up to you how go about getting the rest of your stuff. 3- 5 psybacks is generally the best safe zone for core troop numbers. 4 recommended 3 if you plan on taking allies and 5 if your going for more a spam henchmen type list.

best ally choices
necs for sythes
eldar for bikes
ig for numbers and acess to vendettas and tanks
sw for rune preist and GH

Hope this helps you get the general notion on Shunt List

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275059.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275059.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
Would it be worh giving the Dreadknights any other kit?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275140.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275140.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please No 3 shunting Dreadknights is not overkill many people do it actually. 3 shunting dread knights as well as 2 shunting interceptor squads definitely makes for a brutal force.
Your opponent has to react immdediately to the threat or be utterly destroyed by MC's. Every list has its setbacks as well so make sure you get know them.

You'll have trouble against a strong venon spam Dark eldar army player that knows how to to space out units. as massed str poision fire only needing 4+to wound on your dreadknights will certainly be a set back if you're made to roll alot of saves.
Tau and eldar may also cause you problem if you cant take out enough of the troops/ units laying out rending and ap2/3 firepower.
ofcourse with strategy you can definitely get around this the list you describe is quite solid. As long as you come to learn how play your army correctly through practice and most importantly; come to like how the army plays you will do well and enjoy playing.

edt*
and as for another kit on the dread. not if your in a shunting list. if not in a shunting list you could play the dreadknight more as a shooty bunker unit giving it the heacy incinerator and gatling silencer]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275174.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
If the Interceptors are going to be hitting things in combat is it worth giving them any CC weapons eg Hammers, Halbreds etc. Would they be worth combat Squadding?

Is the Nemisis Greatsword worth taking on the Dreadknights I use to like running Warp time on my Daemon Princes in the old Chaos Dex and I see the Greatsword basicly doing the same thing only without the need for Psychic Tests.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok first attempt. Here goes

1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- Cotaez
100pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
110pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
110pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
110pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

Total 1845pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would consider dropping a henchmen squad for some more weapons on either the Interceptors or Dreadknights.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275195.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
I got good news for you too. You payed way too much for you henchmen squads in razorbacks
the cost of that should 75 not 110 so 35*4= 140 extra points for you to play around with.

As for Nemesis Greatswords on, They tend to be overlooked as they are pretty costly, but really it comes to that of how helpful one finds them.
re-rollable everything can very much go a long way, and on a str 10 MC it almost seems like why wouldn't you take it. All in All totally up to you.
Try out some games with them and try out some games without them and see how they do. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275410.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275410.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
T- Henchmen
3x Warriors Plasma Guns, 2x Warriors Bolters, Chimera Multi-Laser & Heavy Flamer
107pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275416.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275416.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
You are trading out a razorback for that chimera unit I presume?
I definitely like the set up you have for that unit possible even more than I like the set up for razorbacks with AC,
might even consider dropping 1 more in exchange and just going ahead and having an even 2 and 2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275442.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275442.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
#1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- Cotaez
100pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
75pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
75pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
75pts

T- Henchmen
5x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
75pts

T- Henchmen
4x Henchmen bolters, Razorback Psybolt Ammo
70pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

Total 1850pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question. Is it worth Combat Squading the Interceptors?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275460.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275460.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please SM player or CSM who generally are in the same boat as you... not too many units then having bulk may suffice more. Knowing when and when not to combat squads really comes with experience of playing your army and seeing opportunities to capatalize on advantages that your opponents army naturally gives you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275495.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GK detachment consisting of the Dredknight and the Interceptors (I have 5 just need 5 more. I've already broken a teleporter off 1 of them as well grrrr) I have Coteaz painted and ready to play as well so another plus and I could probley proxie a couple of chaos rhinos as razorbacks until I pick up a few. Thanks again.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275520.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6275520.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
glad I could help you out ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6276465.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6276465.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
HQ:
Mordrak+5Ghosts, 400pts
Psyker Malleus Inq, Termie, Psycan, Skull, 113

Troop:
10xGKSS, 2psycan, Psybolts, 240
10xGKSS, 2psycan, Psybolts, 240

Heavy:
DKnight, Incinerator, Teleporter, Sword, 260
DKnight, Incinerator, Teleporter, Sword, 260
DKnight, Incinerator, Teleporter, 235

Total: 1748

Mordrak makes DKnights scoring. You want to make the non-sword unit scoring first--that way the opponent will have to choose whether swords or scoring is scarier.
The Inquisitor adds a bit of punch to Mordrak's unit, which will have a 3+ cover save when you DS into Ruins. Making Termies re-roll hits in combat means your opponent cannot ignore this unit. Since you don't have too many units, the skull will help a bit against pesky Infiltrators.

GKSS can either DS or babysit your objectives (or both), depending on scenario.

On T1, you'll have 7 Termies and 3 DK in the enemy lines, ready to assault on T2. And THEY CAN'T KILL ALL OF THEM.

If you go up to 2000pts, add in a GKI unit, with incinerators, for even more burning. (Subtract Psybolts and Knightswords to gain some extra points).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6276844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6276844.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
I definitely understand what you're getting at trying to deepstrike strike squads as opposed to shunting interceptors.
I actually tried something pretty similiar before but ran into 3 major problems when it comes to deepstriking strikes

1. they can at the very least be assaulting only in t3.
turn 1 there off the table... turn 2 they are on the table but cant assault....turn 3 if they are close enough now they can assault
2. Mishaps
a 10 man unit is a pretty big unit to try and drop down on the field... and if there is a decent amount of terrain you might seriously find yourself in a pickle
3. they are all in a circle in which case one large blast from a riptide/ sw plasma cannon/ bale flamer heldrake/ Doom of Malantai/ demolisher cannon blast from a leman russ or defiler
will see you losing the entire squad in an instant. at least with drop pod assualt you can space out your units within 6" of the drop pod.

Grand Master
I definitely had the same thoughts as you givin everything scoring for late turn objectives but... because how the dreadknights are used to soak of fire and generally do a bulk of the work... don't find themselves
making it to end game but hey if they can take out a large portion of your opponents army or distract them long enough for troops to capture objectives then they've established what they needed to do

By throwing intercpetors in addition to deepstriking mordak and shunting dreadknights I believe the list you have would be much more scarier... i mean 3 NDK a termi squad and 2- 4 if combat squaded interceptor squads all on your opponents grill, with psybacks full of henchmen popping light armored vehicles from afar with only 1 turn to react to all of that... now that's tough.

At the end of the day I'm not saying your list doesn't work... I'm sure you have plenty of experience playing it and know how to use it... I just prefer interceptors]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277116.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277116.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
 Dezstiny wrote:
@Elric

I definitely understand what you're getting at trying to deepstrike strike squads as opposed to shunting interceptors.
I actually tried something pretty similiar before but ran into 3 major problems when it comes to deepstriking strikes

1. they can at the very least be assaulting only in t3.
turn 1 there off the table... turn 2 they are on the table but cant assault....turn 3 if they are close enough now they can assault
2. Mishaps
a 10 man unit is a pretty big unit to try and drop down on the field... and if there is a decent amount of terrain you might seriously find yourself in a pickle
3. they are all in a circle in which case one large blast from a riptide/ sw plasma cannon/ bale flamer heldrake/ Doom of Malantai/ demolisher cannon blast from a leman russ or defiler
will see you losing the entire squad in an instant. at least with drop pod assualt you can space out your units within 6" of the drop pod.


You...don't DS very often, do you? Obviously you would combat squad each unit, DS'ing the 2psycans and leaving the other five on foot. If all your GKSS are in reserve, then you're not using Warp Quake. (I have Drop Pods, Deathwing, and Mawlocs in my local scene, so Warp Quake is my friend.)


By throwing intercpetors in addition to deepstriking mordak and shunting dreadknights I believe the list you have would be much more scarier... i mean 3 NDK a termi squad and 2- 4 if combat squaded interceptor squads all on your opponents grill, with psybacks full of henchmen popping light armored vehicles from afar with only 1 turn to react to all of that... now that's tough.

At the end of the day I'm not saying your list doesn't work... I'm sure you have plenty of experience playing it and know how to use it... I just prefer interceptors


The main problem with GKI is their survivability compared to NDK. Ten T4 3+ wounds is a hecka easier to kill than four T6 2+/5++ wounds. And while the Knight is fully functional after losing three wounds, the GKI become less and less effective for each wound taken. The NDK has the added benefit of a torrent flamer, meaning he can get cover behind a hill/ruin for a 4+ cover, while the GKI have to be right up in the enemy's face to utilise their flamer(s). Additionally, you have positioning problems with GKI: you want to put your flamers in front, to maxmize hits, but you don't want them to die first to return fire. So you end up with non-optimal positioning of models after the shunt move; NDK doesn't deal with that.

Vehicles have become better and worse in 6e. Fortitude makes our vehicles more effective than most...but what with the proliferation of S7 shooting, AV11 just isn't survivable. Expect your Razors to be dead pretty quick. And let's face it, 3 S6 shots isn't that great for anti-armour, even TL. It shreds Xenos infantry, but against Tau/Eldar Skimmers, any Necron vehicle, heavy SM vehicles.... Basically, the only vehicles Bolter Razors are good against is other Rhinos/Razors. Against AV12 you can only glance, and you're useless against AV13-14. And unless you're REALLY lucky, you'll need three Razors to kill one Devilfish, BEFORE he gets his ridiculous cover saves.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277812.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277812.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
HQ- Grandmaster Mordrak, 1x Ghostknight Broterhood banner, 4x Ghostknights Halbreds
425pts

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Psyker
110pts

-Allied Codex Inquisition-

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon
80pts

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon
80pts

695pts for 9 dudes with Prescience, 3x Psycannons an auto arrive from deep strike turn 1 without scatter and guys that can appear from nowhere. Not the most cost effective way doingthings but the Inquisitors are the cheepest way of getting Psycannon shots in the dex at 20pts per shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok how about this for a gymick list. The Warriors go in the Ravens. Really low on scoring units but who cares should be fun to play. Got a fair bit shooting power with some combat punch to back up later.

1750pts Grey Knights

HQ- Cotaez
100pts

T- 3x Warriors Bolters
15pts

T- 3x Warriors Bolters
15pts

FA- Stormraven Gunship, TL- Multi-Melta, TL- Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
255pts

FA- Stormraven Gunship, TL- Multi-Melta, TL- Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
255pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts

Total 1750pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277977.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6277977.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
You...don't DS very often, do you? Obviously you would combat squad each unit, DS'ing the 2psycans and leaving the other five on foot. If all your GKSS are in reserve, then you're not using Warp Quake. (I have Drop Pods, Deathwing, and Mawlocs in my local scene, so Warp Quake is my friend.)


I was just giving you my reasons for not taking them personally. Combating squads generally comes in that of the case of seeing opportunity to do so, and I did have some insight that you would probably combat squad and only drop half of them. The extra information on your current meta I wouldn't know about so combat squading for you would probably be most prevailant in that of trying to get off warp quakes so it would've been nice to have that information, I do apologize if I offended you in any manner of that of critiquing your route to take on strikes over interceptors.

At the end of the day I'm not saying your list doesn't work... I'm sure you have plenty of experience playing it and know how to use it... I just prefer interceptors



The main problem with GKI is their survivability compared to NDK. Ten T4 3+ wounds is a hecka easier to kill than four T6 2+/5++ wounds. And while the Knight is fully functional after losing three wounds, the GKI become less and less effective for each wound taken. The NDK has the added benefit of a torrent flamer, meaning he can get cover behind a hill/ruin for a 4+ cover, while the GKI have to be right up in the enemy's face to utilise their flamer(s). Additionally, you have positioning problems with GKI: you want to put your flamers in front, to maxmize hits, but you don't want them to die first to return fire. So you end up with non-optimal positioning of models after the shunt move; NDK doesn't deal with that.


Interceptors while they are reduced in number and lose efficiency, can do things that the NDK cannot. They can provide much more shooting with bolter fire, put out a larger number of attacks, and get into positions where the Nemesis Dreadknight would not be able to as of how big the base is. There is strength and a weakness for all units and interceptors at least to me, provide me with extra tactical abilities and options that the NDK could not do. Don't get me wrong you do bring up a good points here... but every list is not without its setbacks. For my interceptors, having to be up close and losing incinerators as a result of having them in the front would be mine.

Vehicles have become better and worse in 6e. Fortitude makes our vehicles more effective than most...but what with the proliferation of S7 shooting, AV11 just isn't survivable. Expect your Razors to be dead pretty quick. And let's face it, 3 S6 shots isn't that great for anti-armour, even TL. It shreds Xenos infantry, but against Tau/Eldar Skimmers, any Necron vehicle, heavy SM vehicles.... Basically, the only vehicles Bolter Razors are good against is other Rhinos/Razors. Against AV12 you can only glance, and you're useless against AV13-14. And unless you're REALLY lucky, you'll need three Razors to kill one Devilfish, BEFORE he gets his ridiculous cover saves.


Agree with you here that Razorbacks are not the most sturdy of vehicles and 3 str 6 shots isn't all that amazing but at the end of the day, they still provide for a chance to get first blood, still prove to begood LoS blocking units, still act as a good carrier for your henchmen, and still provide for a nice cheap way of having to make you opponents FMC's taking grounding checks. I just try my best to have all my units supporting each other in that of a manner of... are you gonna shoot out the razorbacks in the back shooting pop shots at your light transports or shoot at the shunting interceptors and dreadknights? Do you want to take out the razorback sooner or later? as they still have troops in them capable of capturing objectives so I need at least 2 units to completely wipe the transport and the units inside. So that's really just my take on razorbacks and interceptors.

I'm not saying your wrong for taking strikes, I'm just saying that I prefer Interceptors

Ok how about this for a gymick list. The Warriors go in the Ravens. Really low on scoring units but who cares should be fun to play. Got a fair bit shooting power with some combat punch to back up later.

1750pts Grey Knights

HQ- Cotaez
100pts

T- 3x Warriors Bolters
15pts

T- 3x Warriors Bolters
15pts

FA- Stormraven Gunship, TL- Multi-Melta, TL- Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
255pts

FA- Stormraven Gunship, TL- Multi-Melta, TL- Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
255pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer
270pts


T he only problem with this list is that you don't have enought troops, You'd have to drop a NDK and put some more henchmen in the first 2 troop units so they have a chance of surving be shot off an objective... after that depending on how many points you have left, you would want to consider how you want to outfit those 2 henchmen units in the stormravens, or what I'd think to be a better idea; putting out a chimera unit for coteaz to hold up in... so jea that's just my 2sense on this list


Ok I have been thinking about the Mordrak Bomb and I feel I can make it really expensive but also really broken. Here goes

HQ- Grandmaster Mordrak, 1x Ghostknight Broterhood banner, 4x Ghostknights Halbreds
425pts

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Psyker
110pts

-Allied Codex Inquisition-

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon
80pts

HQ- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Psycannon
80pts

I love the creativity here but this wouldn't be viable. You jst sank 695 pts into 8 models in which only 3 have psycannons.
In addition to that, the inquisitors only have T3 so they can be easily insta killed. Getting for sure Deepstrikes on T2 isn't worth 700 of your points.
It's kind of like you're running a paladin squad without a psycannon and missing 2 models. I mean you can deffnitely play around with it but I wouldn't reccomend this for a compettitive list
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278207.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
The Gatling Psilencer should be swapped out for the Greatsword on the NDKs. The NDKs THRIVE in assault. The Heavy Incinerator is an amazing weapon, and will get it's pts back. The Gatling Psilencer is just a bunch of Str4 shots, in an army that has buckets of them all ready.

Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278215.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278215.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
My $0.02,

The Gatling Psilencer should be swapped out for the Greatsword on the NDKs. The NDKs THRIVE in assault. The Heavy Incinerator is an amazing weapon, and will get it's pts back. The Gatling Psilencer is just a bunch of Str4 shots, in an army that has buckets of them all ready.


Love it, the OP chose Great swords because he/she(as I don't know the gender of the op am not trying to be sexist) liked how they acted like the old chaos psychic power which allows for re-rolls on everything, but that definitely works as well]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278222.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please MC's. Not to.mention the NGK has a BS of 4 not 3.

For 105pts I've given myself 36 shots as an Ork & IG player first and foremost I completly understand the value in rolling a handful of dice. Those 36 shots just may do enough damage turn 1 & 2 before I charge in at the end of T2 to keep some extra guys alive long enough to put out a bit more damage. Also the NDK gets 12 more rolls on Overwatch if he is charged.
Those additional 36 shots are like having an extra 18 Strikes helping out which is 360pts worth of additional fire power for 105pts.

Turn 1 for a shunt list needs to atleast semi-cripple my opponent so I won't get tabled during the counter attack. You need to treat the army like a drop pod army that has some added mobility after the first hit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278337.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282161-psilencers-on-termis/

I'm not trying to argue with you about how you want to run your list, but my buddy regrets (ran out of magnets) putting the Psilencers on his NDKs. Me, I run mine with Sword and Incinerator, and have NEVER regreted it once.

WS5 re-rolls on everything in CC is just nuts!!! Wraithanything = dead, Riptide = dead, Tanks = dead You get my pt.

BTW, I run a really similar list. I don't use GKI, I run a Coteaz firebase instead. Lots of flyers by me, namely Drakes. I don't have scoring, but I only really want to smash my buddies "fine-tuned-all-comers-lists". I do play at 1850 though.

Cheers

Edit: Totally forgot about this list.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/261706-warmasters-challenge/?hl=%2Bwarmaster%26%2339%3Bs+%2Bchallenge#entry3191944

DarkOne has some real good info in his batreps on his use of the NDKs.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6278402.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GK's on the board. I do like the concept of running cotaez with some henchmen bit it feels a little too mech guard which is what I'm trying to take a break from. What I want to accomplish in the long run is an army that I can bring along anywhere and play a few games over the course of the night/day etc and not have to play the army the same way everytime. So for this reason and this reason alone I'm going to scrap the henchmen. Yes I like them and yes I will play with henchmen but I will run them will some allied mech IG to get a Vendetta and a Manticore but thats another list for another topic.

I've decided to run strike squads. The reason for this is they work like a nice little multi-tool. Yes they are just as easy to kill as normal MEQ tgey do however have a lot more damage output and they have generally decent ranged weapon. My plan with them is to decide how to run them before the game is begun.

Certian army's that want to get into combat with me might want to push up to engage me in this situation I will run them as a full 10 man squad. In certian missions I might want to combat squad them up into 2 squads & deep strike some Psycannons behind enemy lines. I might even just want a small 5 man squad to hide out and objective camp in my back field they could even wander in late game from reserve and jump on the objective. Or I just might want them to foot slog up the guts to add some fire power to tge shunting element in my force.

So as it stands this is how my list currently stands:

#1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- ???

T- GK Strike Squad
10x GK's, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Justicar Halbred
245pts

T- GK Strike Squad
10x GK's, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Justicar Halbred
245pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Justicar Halbred
305pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

Total 1500pts

So from here I have 350pts to select a HQ from. I currently haven't chosen the Greatsword or the Gatling Psilencer for the NDK's but will throw them on with any left over points I have. Basicly the army so far can be moderatly mobile with strikes able to deep strike in if needed or foot slog if the mission permits or just camp out. For the HQ I'm considering a GM even though I was advised against it. Some of his other abilities outside of the allowing certain models to score would fit with what I'm trying to achieve with the list eg.

In the relic I can place a servo skull on the relic to prevent deep strikers, Infiltrators or scouts from making an early dash and grab but I can then give my Strikes scout to allow them a 6" head start towards the objective and then shunt all of my other units in front to make a wall of guys that need to be pushed through to get the relic. By tgen tge relic would be long gone.

In kill points missions I could give a few units the ability to re-roll 1's to.wound to add a bit of hitting power as scoring unit are useless in a kill points game.

The list goes on.

So far my idea of a solid GM is basicly a Psycannon, Rad Grenades and a few servo skulls. He is also effective because I can deep strike him if needed with the rest of my army if I choose to go down that path. So as it stands hes sitting on around 240-250pts which is a lot for a non named character. How do most people like to run there GM's or would a Libby or Terminator Inquisitor fit in better this kind of list better?

I've ranted enough looking for some quality C&C.

Thanks Mr. Sinji.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6279029.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6279029.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please HQ now? Playtest 1st, and see what you think.

Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6281559.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6281559.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please DK yesterday. They are a really great model to put together I don't think I will need any magnets for the hands to swap out the fist for the Great Sword. As for the guns I set up the Heavy Incinerator to be a fixed permenant fix weapon. The other can either be nothing, the Heavy Psycannon or Gatling Psilencer. Cool model can't wait to do the other 2.

 MayorDaley wrote:
Maybe Mordrak for your HQ now? Playtest 1st, and see what you think.

Cheers


I spent most of last night going through thing and I do agree I think Mordrak is the best bet. He is the only reliable way to get a GM upclose and into Combat quicklt and will work in nicely with a shunt list. Here is what I've come up with. I might have to drop an Interceptor squad to bolster Mordraks squad a bit. Tge lest over points can tool up the NDK's a bit. The Strikes stay in reserve and pop in later.

#1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- GM Mordrak
-Ghost Knights-
3x Ghost knights
320pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannons
110pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

Total 1845pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282283.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please

My only concern would be aircraft, but if you have your ENTIRE army in yer opponents face when they come on; it shouldn't be to bad.

It's funny how GKI are the "new black" in this edition.

Cheers



Edit: The NDK is a awesome model to build! I built my 1st one in 5th ed, and bought 2 more! My buddies thought I was crazy back then to have NDKs and not PsyDreads, but now look who's laughing. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282745.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282745.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please Lol. That is so true. My only concern is the small squad Mordrak is in he will most likely get squished when he turn up but I'll do some playing around till I find the right combo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282957.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6282957.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please I actually don't like henchmen, I think everything needs to be focused on fighting your opponent, You're going to be sitting in rapid-fire range for a turn, and you're going to lose some units. Pitting anything but your entire army against, well, their entire army will be rough. Mordrak is essential because it gives you another unit that you can put anywhere.

I run my Mordrak bomb with a Librarian attached, with teleport homer and warp rift (psychic power). Warp rift is an awesome way to deal with Riptides and any other low initiative unit, and it's not bad against vehicles either. The teleport homer brings in your deepstriking units within easy assault range, and you don't have to hedge your mishap bets. it also gives Mordrak's squad another IC that can break off and assault turn 2.
I like the greatsword on my dreadknights, if you only have 4-5 attacks you should make them count.
I actually run terminators as my base troops, they come in on the homer. I run mine with hammers/halberds and some incinerators/psycannons. The reason why is that 1) I've always loved the models, 2) it forces my opponent to prioritize their AP 2, and 3) the weapons options are great compared to their cost on other units. I've considered strike squads, but reason #1 keeps termies in my lists.

Play around with it, trial and error will get you a list you like.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6283036.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6283036.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please HQ's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I have yet another list lol. I'll get there eventually. I liked the idea of the Vortex of doom so much that I had to include it in this one. I actually bought a box of the GK Termies a few months ago so have most the models for the Mordrak including the libby. Still yet to be painted though but assembled and ready to field. I want to paint Mordrak black with red shoulder pad and brass bits and pieces here and there. So heres the new list. What does everyone think. I had to cut an Interceptor squad sadly but I think this list is better over all.

1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- GM Mordrak
-Ghost Knights-
4x Ghost knights, Halbreds
360pts

HQ- Librarian, Halbred, Teleport Homer, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Vortex of Doom, Servo-Skull
190pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

Total 1850pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6283150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6283150.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please HQ squad on the initial deepstrike, cause you can't run if you want to shoot (which I'm guessing you do). And even if you pass the psychic test, that blast template is the last thing you want scattering around next to your terminators, dreadknights, and PAGK. I think Warp Rift is safer and more reliable, but YMMV.

Remember, you can run after you deepstrike...if your enemy has nasty blast weapons it may be better to run than shoot.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6285547.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6285547.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
Any other advise?

Would I be better off running the Libby in higher points games? He is a lot of points and cuts down on bodies in my already low body count army. I can see the potential he brings though however.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6285854.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6285854.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GUO back into the warp with it, that was awesome. Being able to get a free penetrating hit with it is great because you have a good chance of neutering a tank...snap shots mean no demolisher cannons on Mordrak's squad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6286054.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6286054.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6286481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6286481.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GM that can make guys scoring and 89% of my army is in my opponenta face turn 1. If I need to I can combat squad the Interceptors to get a few more units gunning down other units. Big question is should I dump some psycannons for a few more Incinerators?

A tactic I've been thinking lately is taking an Agies an placing it 12" from my opponents deployment zone and then shunting behind it for my turn 1 assault. It will give me a bit of protection from return fire before I assault in turn 2. What does everyone think of that?

Heres my 2k list

2000pts Grey Knights

HQ- GM Mordrak
-Ghost Knights-
4x Ghost knights, Halbreds
360pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
300pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword
260pts

Total 2000pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6289561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6289561.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please Any thought of "balance" is just out the window with it.

I do like the look of your 2k list though.

Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6289584.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6289584.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
Some advice that I think has been overlooked (unless I missed it skim reading the thread) is to give your Interceptors Hammers.

I would run 2 Hammers (minimum 1) in each 10 man squad so you can a) almost guarantee you will hit with a Hammer and b) you can have 1 in each squad if you combat squad them.

Without Hammers your Interceptors are not very versatile in combat and will most likely be picking on troops while the NDKs are taking tanks. Now this plan is fine but if you throw a couple of hidden Hammers in each squad then you have just drastically increased your S8/10 AP2 threat and ability to bring down big stuff.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6290787.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6290787.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please MC's. Dreadknights are good but can't take up all the slack so Hammers might be a good option to put in somewhere.

I'm now pretty set on 3 Interceptor Squads and 2 Dreadknights for my 1850 list (I'll get there eventually). I really think I need more guys on the board and 30 Interceptors just might be enough to keep me happy. Whats better though 2x Squads with Incinerators and 1x Squad with Psycannons or 1x Squad with Incinerators and 2x Squads with Psycannons?

I am lacking a bit in anti-air so I'm thinking the 2x Squads with Psycannons as I'm hoping the Psycannons can take care of that for me. Option 2 is take over an enemy Agies & use there own Quad Gun against them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6290847.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6290847.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
1850pts Grey Knights

HQ- GM Mordrak
-Ghost Knights-
4x Ghost knights, Halbreds
360pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
5x Interceptors, 1x Incinerator, 1x Hammer
160pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, 2x Hammers, Psybolt Ammo
320pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, 2x Hammers, Psybolt Ammo
320pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

Total 1850pts

42 models a bit different from my IG or Orks armies lol

2000pts Grey Knights

HQ- GM Mordrak
-Ghost Knights-
4x Ghost knights, Halbreds
360pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

T- GK Strike Squad
5x GK's, 1x Psycannon
110pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Incinerators, 1x Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
330pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, 1x Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
310pts

FA- GK Interceptor Squad
10x Interceptors, 2x Psycannons, 1x Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
310pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight, Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
235pts

Total 2000pts

47 models and I got my 30 Interceptors in lost a couple of hammers though but still over all solid]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6294137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6294137.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
Would love to hear some feed back on my painting

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305535.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
Keep up the great work.

Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305636.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305636.page GMT Re:I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
As for your list(s) , I know that bodies count in this edition but I think that the Librarian brings a bit more survivability to your "Mordrak bomb" just for one reason : "The shrouding" ..You deep strike the "Bomb" into a ruin (4+ cover) the unit has stealth (3+) and with the shrouding codex power you go to 2+ even if you go against Tau or another "no cover" shooting army you still have your invu save and you have at worst 6 wounds till they get to Mordrak considering a str 8+ weapon (they are 9 if it's a str 7- and both Mordrak and the Libbi will be alive + more ghostknights from Mordrak's ability) ..

If you run or shoot is your call depending the situation and the opponent's army .. Try not to give your Librarian a lot of points having him at 160 with shrouding and warp rift and stay with the sword for the 4++ in close combat. As for the rest of the unit I would go with 3x swords and 2x hammers ( + Mordrak's hammer) so might of the titan power seems a bit useless IMHO

This "Bomb" unit come's at 560 points.. 2x NDK w/ HI + Teleporter are 470 and 2x GKI w/ 2x psycannons + psy ammo + 1x hammer 620 . So you are at 1650 points . From here you have to choose your troops being either 2x GKSS (bare) or take Coteaz using Inquisition detachment and have some acolytes (if he still can take them as troops being in the Inq detachment) .. You can always have 4x Ghostknights to give the GKSS phycannons and the Libby 2x more powers but it depends on your playstyle .

You 'll be running low on models (39 at 1850points) but you 'll have 5x nasty (and pretty much durable) units in your opponents face turn 1 ! + you play GK you're used to that thing ..

Hope this helped a bit . Really nice models again ! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305770.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305770.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please GK army and almost has me wanting to converting to a shunt list but I just got a GK list that really fits my playstyle but I would love to run some kind of Mordrak/Librarian combo because right now I am running more heavy weapons henchman and rhino walled dreadnoughts. Makes me feel like a conformist to the meta game.

But dude, awesome army and paint job. I am more of a traditionalist with my army being a gleeming silver but damn if that paint job of yours doesn't look awesome as heck. Keep up the good work and its nice to hear of some people enthused by GKs. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305880.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6305880.page GMT I want to build a GK Shunt List....... Help Please
I really do want to run a Libby. Even if its just for coolness factor. I wouldn't mind giving him a Warding Stave to tank Challenges so Mordrak can Hammer the unit (No pun intended). I like the power Santuary the one that nerfs enemy charges. That could buy me the ability to be the charger instead of the chargee. Its a 12"power which is also handy as I will most likely be rolling on the Command Tree which are all also 12" range.

I intend to use this army for tournement play so low model count isn't a bad thing as it easy to transport deploy and move on the table top.

My intention with Mordrak is to also soak up some interceptor fire it will prevent the unit from shooting at my DK's and Interceptors next turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6306047.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/564507/6306047.page GMT