<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Playing DA as regular SM"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Playing DA as regular SM
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but it is list related. Looking over my old DA book I just see very few reasons to play it in comparison to the regular marine codex, especially with the advent of the Inquisition book allowing me to essentially take divination buffers w/o needing librarians.

Is there any reason to take a power armored list as DA or is it simply better to use the regular marine codex? I would most likely use the Imperial Fists chapter tactics and make a drop pod heavy list.

I still think Ravenwing are decent-ish for DA and Deathwing are cool / fun but not very good. Any thoughts? Also, would it be appropriate to just paint my models in regular DA green and say "they are using Imperial Fists chapter tactics" before the game starts?

I like Dark Angels, and always have, but after waiting for years for a new update and getting a beautiful pile of garbage (mostly) for a codex, I can't help but want to move back to regular SM and possibly Black Templars instead, at least for my power armor list. Any help would be great, as I don't want to drop money on a new codex if it still isn't really going to work out well.

- VardenV2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6308820.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6308820.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
 VardenV2 wrote:
Hey guys,

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but it is list related. Looking over my old DA book I just see very few reasons to play it in comparison to the regular marine codex, especially with the advent of the Inquisition book allowing me to essentially take divination buffers w/o needing librarians.

Is there any reason to take a power armored list as DA or is it simply better to use the regular marine codex? I would most likely use the Imperial Fists chapter tactics and make a drop pod heavy list.

I still think Ravenwing are decent-ish for DA and Deathwing are cool / fun but not very good. Any thoughts? Also, would it be appropriate to just paint my models in regular DA green and say "they are using Imperial Fists chapter tactics" before the game starts?

I like Dark Angels, and always have, but after waiting for years for a new update and getting a beautiful pile of garbage (mostly) for a codex, I can't help but want to move back to regular SM and possibly Black Templars instead, at least for my power armor list. Any help would be great, as I don't want to drop money on a new codex if it still isn't really going to work out well.

- VardenV2



Well, in comparison I'd say there is one competitive and fun reason to stay with CA, and frankly that's the Standard of Devastation, without a doubt. The amount of whinging about the Codex being mediocre would have been doubled if Vetock hadn't added that In, I almost guarantee you.

The access to Deathwing/Ravenwing support is questionably useful, honestly both are overpriced because they come with a few fancy tricks which you need to take full advantage of to make them worth it.

C:SM's chapter tactics make CA's stubborn pale in comparison mostly, because they're more orientated around shooting, survival and flexibility whereas stubborn just means you'll tarpit units in CC a bit longer, which I won't deny can be extremely useful but it is a rock-paper-scissors case of use nonetheless and if the rest of your army doesn't hold up, it won't matter how long you can stick em there.

The Greenwing HQ's are pretty crappy with the exception of Azrael, but he's kind of wasted if you don't take Deathwing/Ravenwing. This Codex is basically built so strongly on synergy between wings and other units that it just makes the individual units themselves overpriced and overspecialised. It's a nice idea but people would have far preferred the capacity to run viable Greenwing/Ravenwing/Deathwing only (not so much for RW) lists in addition, which Vetock for the most part completely failed to achieve.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309108.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309108.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
But as an overall answer, we DA players have been proxying as Vanilla marines for several editions now lol. No need to even repaint ;P]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309230.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM RW because they are a one trick pony. People already know what and how I'm going to play them. They are fragil and unforgiving. I also have a small green wing army 1500 points. If played like green wing they lack and feel bland and weak. I love the fluff and everything DA, I packed them up and placed them in the closet. I still buy DA stuff if I get a sweet price on them. Fun to collect but not to play. I have about 59 vet dark angel models sitting because of the bland codex.

My suggestion play them as any chapter you like. But keep in mind 6th is all about Xenos.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309274.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
 The Shrike wrote:
If you want to do dred spam, Iron Hands and specifically their Clan Raukan supplement is the way to do it; not Imperial Fists.

But as an overall answer, we DA players have been proxying as Vanilla marines for several editions now lol. No need to even repaint ;P


If I was gonna do dread spam I would jsut play Iron hands haha. I don't have that many dreadnoughts though (I leave that to my Orks).

I have a 1500 points drop pod list revolving around 4x tactical squads and either a Deathwing Command squad with banner + terminator librarian or veteran squad with Azrael. If I do the latter, I could make the veterans be counts as sterngaurd with combo-plasma (they are armed with plasma pistols and bolt pistols) and put a HQ from C:SM and virtually nothing changes (except they will probably be better) If I just used the drop pod list and counted Azrael as a Company / Chapter Master with the super sword (better than Azrael's...sigh...) and the armor eternal or w/e, do you think that would be a legit DA styled version of the army? I also wanted to add in some Inquisitorial forces to get my divination back,but I may not have the points. W/e.

My reasoning was if I used the Imperial Fists chapter tactics it sort of makes up for the dakka expertise of DA with bolters to an extent. Do you think the UM tactics make more sense overall?

I'll keep using the DA dex for my Ravenwing dakka list I am building up to, but for an all power-armored army, I see no reason to use Dark Angels when the C:SM book is just plain better and still so similar.

- VardenV2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309455.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309455.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM TL on tacticals twice for one squad, and with Calgar you can use it twice for everyone. If going tactical spam, UM all the way with one or both of the HQs I mentioned.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309483.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309483.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
 The Shrike wrote:
UM make much more sense. With Tiggy you can essentially use the TL on tacticals twice for one squad, and with Calgar you can use it twice for everyone. If going tactical spam, UM all the way with one or both of the HQs I mentioned.


I am not particularly fond of Tiggy or Mary Sue Clagar as character though. I would much rather create a kick-ass company master as my stand-in Azrael. It may not be optimized, but I want my tactical marines to have a little Dark Angel's flare, just use the C:SM book because it will make the list more playable. I'll try and write something up tonight and post it to get opinions. It's only a 1500 point list and I would like to have some Inquisitors for divination if I can, because I think they would be a cool modeling and painting opportunity to give me some flair.

- VardenV2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309507.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6309527.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
 The Shrike wrote:
Hey, kudos for giving fluff and hobbying elements due consideration; all I can do is offer tactical advice as that stuff is all in the eye of the beholder.


It's cool. Always a factor to consider. I guess I should more accurately approach the question as "How can I make Dark Angels with the regular C:SM codex." Choosing units or compositions that are fluffier for DA vs other marines etc. Like, yeah, not gonna use lots of predators, dreads and techmarines because that's not DA, it's Iron hands. I think Iron Hands are pretty dope, and would consider playing them in the normal dex, but that's not the goal haha.

For DA marines I would imagine the prevalence of plasma guns, cannons, combi-plasma, shooty sergeants or sergeants with power swords, and good bolters or something, as DA are nown for being pretty steadfast and stubborn, usually standing to shoot to the last man even when it's better to retreat etc. They pull a lot of "Alamo" situations. As such I would imagine tacticals and devastators to be more of a backbone than assault marines compared to a chapter like BA, or dreadnoughts and tanks to something like Iron Hands. I'll try and get a list posted shortly.

- VardenV2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6310073.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6310073.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
Primary: SM

Chapter Master: BIke, Artificier Armor, Thunder Hammer, Shield Eternal- 250 (Use Sammael model with swapped TH because it's awesome):

Sternguard x5: Drop Pod, 5 combi-plasma - 205
Sternguard x5: Drop Pod, 5 combi-plasma - 205
Sternguard x5: Drop Pod, 5 combi-melta - 205

Tactical Marines x10: Drop Pod, Plasma Gun- 190
Tactical Marines x10: Drop Pod, Plasma Gun- 190

Storm Talon: Typhoon Missiles, Assault Cannon- 125

Storm Raven: Lascannon, Multimelta- 200

Secondary: DA

Librarian: Terminator Armor, ML2- 125

Deathwing Terminators x5: Cyclone Missile Launcher- 245

Scout Snipers x5- 60

Total: 2000

I think this list captures the heart of a DA playstyle while still being semi-competitive. You won't win any tournaments but it is tough as a TAC. You're podding in 15 combi-weapons while Deathwing Assaulting with 5 Terminators and a Librarian as well T1. In most games, go for Telepathy on your Libby for things like Psychic Schriek.

Then, on T2 you should have some fliers coming in to back up your alpha strike and your Master should be closing for assault. Tacticals come in to mop up, seize objectives.

Good luck, hope I helped.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6310475.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6310475.page GMT Playing DA as regular SM
I will post my pseudo list based on what my previous gunline list was. Keep in mind, I am not hyper competitive (I play Dark Angels and Orks...) and like to have a strong theme throughout the army. In this instance, I want it to be more of a 'first response' type list where the DA are entering from orbit to reinforce a position. Having lots of heavy vehicles and stuff doesn't really fit, and I play with so many terminators and bikes I thought an all power armored force would be fun. I may consider adding in some scouts or something too though.

Here was the Dark Angels version of the list I am attempting to recreate. I only have one tactical squad built though (the DV one with plasma stuff) so I can easily make the other squads have Lascannons or Multi-Melta or w/e.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/565122.page

I have substituted the Deathwing squad for my dual pistol veteran squad I use for fun at 2000 points, and made them count as sterngaurd in the new list I will post shortly.

- VardenV2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the 1500 point list that is basically a copy paste of what I already have from my Dark Angels models, just formatted to be C:SM instead of the Dark Angels book.

CHAPTER TACTICS
- Ultramarines

HQ
Captain
- Artificer Armor, Bolt Pistol, frag, krak, Iron Halo
- Combi-Plasma
- Burning Blade

ELITE
Sternguard Veterans (8)
- Sgt w/ power weapon and bolt pistol
- 5x Combi-Plasma
- 2x Flamer
- Drop Pod

TROOPS
Tactical Squad x2
- Sgt w/ Combi-plasma
- Plasma Gun
- Plasma Cannon
- Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x2
- Sgt w/ Combi-melta
- Melta Gun
- Multi-Melta
- Drop Pod

INQUISITION ALLIES
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor x2
- Power armor, Bolt Pistol, Hellrifle, frag, krak, psyk-out grenades
- Psyker
- 3x Servo Skull (to help with drop pods)

The idea is to have the plasma tacticals combat squad, deploying the heavy weapons in some cover near my side of the table. I then put an Inquisitor in each to give them divination on the heavy weapon, and snipe with the hellrifle (36" range). Hopefully, they can hold an objective or two near my deployment zone.

This would allow for the Sterngaurd + Captain to drop pod in alongside the two melta pods on turn one and take out any tanks / riptides etc that I need hopefully. From there, I can establish a firing line and move wherever I need to deal with the enemy. The remainder of the plasma squads can come in wherever they are needed, and hopefully claim some objectives later in the game.

I have debated doing a few things. 1) removing a squad of tacticals to add in some Devastators (possibly with Flakk missiles or Lascannons) to help with the anti-air / tank capabilities. I can give them a drop pod and use the Ultramarines relentless tactic if I need them to fire on the move etc. It is less scoring, but more damage. 2) removing something to add in an Aegis Defense Line with Quad gun for AA. 3)Dropping an Inquisitor (or both) and upgrading to a Chapter Master and deckign him otu with tons of wargear etc. For this, I wanted to keep him cheap, as the list is very shooty and nothing wants to really be assaulting anyway. I have essentially recreated Azrael with a worse armor set but better cc weapon.4) Adding in some air of my own in the form of a storm talon or two.

Thoughts?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6315877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/566392/6315877.page GMT