<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dark Angels 1850 - Help!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Dark Angels 1850 - Help! The list below comes to 1757 points of the 1850. I have 93 pts for upgrades or extra units. What do you Dakkanaughts think I am missing or what would you change / add?

I think I am missing some anti air really and also more high strength shooting. The Dark Angels codex is a little light in that department unless I want to pay a fairly large amount of points.

A Nephilim Jetfighter would be good but I would have to drop points somewhere, the only place I can think of is by ditching the Veteran Squad which would leave Azrael pondering the meaning of being lonely...

HQ
1x Azrael

Elites
5x Company Veterans - 5x Bolt Pistol and Chainsword - Rhino (Storm Bolter)
1x Dread - Multimelta, Power Fist with Heavy Flamer - Drop Pod
1x Dread - Multimelta, Power Fist with Heavy Flamer - Drop Pod

Troops
5x Deathwing Terminators - Heavy Flamer
5x Deathwing Terminators - Heavy Flamer
1x Ravenwing Attach Squadron - 6x Bikes (All Boltguns), Attack Bike (Heavy Bolter), Land Speeder (2x Heavy Bolters)
1x Ravenwing Attach Squadron - 6x Bikes (All Boltguns), Attack Bike (Heavy Bolter), Land Speeder (2x Heavy Bolters)

Heavy Support
1x Whirlwind
1x Whirlwind


Comments / help appreciated!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6393290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6393290.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
I ask because you're using DW as your troops, you might be better off dropping the vets and whirlwinds, and buffing up with Ravenwing. Also, I would drop the heavy flammers in favor of CML. More versatile. Give the carrier a SS/TH and watch him live until the end of the game and keep popping off those missile shots with his 2+/3++ saves.

If you're looking to go full DW, I'd recommend giving Azrael a TH/SS and a full squad attached to him with two heavy flammers, and use him to precision strike them onto whatever squishies you want to burn. In addition, take one dread in a pod with the flammer arm and a twin heavy flammer arm and take the other one as mid-long range support.

DW strike half your termies in, Azrael precision drops onto said squishies with his burninator squad. Flammers auto hit and reroll wounds that turn. Same with the ball of fire dreadnought that Drop pod strikes in as well. Well his twin linked arm does at least. Support it with whatever you like.

If you want a multi wing with some air support, perhaps think about Dev squad with some flak missile launchers, or perhaps a scout squad with the Aegis line perhaps?

Just some thoughts.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397324.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397324.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397487.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
I would suggest dropping the dreads adn vets (maybe keep 1 dread)

Then I would either add more termies or more bikes and then get special weapons on the bikes plasma or melta first. If you are using Azrael its best either to go dual-wing or greenwing with command squads and banners]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397505.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397505.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Shingen wrote:
I didn't think Azrael could deep strike with terminators?


Yes. He would start the game attached to the 10 man squad, and be held in reserves. Both Azrael and the squad can DW strike, and since Azrael is attached to the ten man, they gain the benefit of not scattering upon Deepstriking. This, paired with the DW assault rules for having twin linked when they come in, allow you to surgically place them exactly where you want them without fear of being destroyed or lost, i.e. 1" away in order to maximize your flamers casualties. Just make sure you position those flamers correctly when you place them, you don't want to burn your own guys.


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Haha, oh wait, my bad. Belial. That entry should be Belial not Azrael. It's been a long morning at work with zero coffee. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397639.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397639.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Belial is the terminator HQ that allows for no scatter on deepstrike.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397642.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397642.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
 FirePainter wrote:
To the above I think you have Belial and Azrael mixed up. Azrael cannot deepstrike as he is not in terminator armor.

Belial is the terminator HQ that allows for no scatter on deepstrike.


You are correct sir, as I corrected myself just now. Thank you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397651.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6397651.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Not sure on terminators, I like seeing an opponent bring them against me and they died very easily. Some unlucky rolls but 1 squad of 5 died to a single plasma cannon shot. Total waste of points if I'm honest so back to the drawing board I think.

I think I'll exchange them for whirlwinds, preds and jetfighters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6398148.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6398148.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Just a thought! I know they're not scoring but 2 full attack squadrons will almost cover that! You could add a HQ on a bike, take a command squad and take the banner of devastation (a new love of mine with bikes! Thanks Hex!) making your attack squadrons bolters be 4 shots at 24"!! That's some half decent crowd control!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400432.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Is sammaels land speeder worth it or stick to bike?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400785.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! apoc for some feel no pain goodness he becomes uber tough, flying around popping off his plasma cannon! Add a darkshroud in behind him and along with skilled rider he has a 3+ cover save!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6400806.page GMT Re:Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Seems to have everything I would need in an 1850 list.

> 8 Separate units with Multi Melta's for AV (12 Total).
> 4 Flamers for killing swarms.
> Darkshroud for its Stealth.
> Auto pass hit and run.


HQ
Sammael
5x Ravenwing Command Squad - Apothecary, Ravenwing Champion, Ravenwing Company Banner (I am assuming the Apothecary isnt a separate unit and just an upgrade?)

Troops
Ravenwing Attack Squad - 6x Ravenwing Biker (1x Flamer), 1x Attack Bike (Multi Melta), 1x Land Speeder (2x Multi Melta)
Ravenwing Attack Squad - 6x Ravenwing Biker (1x Flamer), 1x Attack Bike (Multi Melta), 1x Land Speeder (2x Multi Melta)
Ravenwing Attack Squad - 6x Ravenwing Biker (1x Flamer), 1x Attack Bike (Multi Melta), 1x Land Speeder (2x Multi Melta)
Ravenwing Attack Squad - 6x Ravenwing Biker (1x Flamer), 1x Attack Bike (Multi Melta), 1x Land Speeder (2x Multi Melta)

Fast Attack
Ravenwing Darkshroud - Assault Cannon

Heavy Support
Predator - Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon


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Random Question!!!

If I combat squad the bikes I assume I would have 4 squads with a sergeant and 4 squads without? You don't get another sergeant in the other squads?

Sorry if that's a bit of a silly question but I don't know the marine rules very well!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401045.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401045.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! apoc is just an upgrade to an existing champion.

You lack the best unit in the dex: Black Knights. Look at them. Then look again. Those guys are the best you can field.
Drop 1-2 Attack Squads and take Black Knights instead.
For the bikes a Banner of Devastation kicks the feth out of stuff. It makes the relentless bikes a Salvo 4. That means every bike puts out 4 shots at 24" range... Say you have 6x2 bikes, thats 48 boltershots.
You can Combat Squad the Attack Bike and the Speeders to operate independetly.

The most common setup for the Speeders is HB and TML - gives the fragile Speeders a long range fire support role. The MM Variant is most used to DS and blow up a vehicle or two, then die in the retaliation.
If you switch out the MM Speeders to above setup, you might want to give 1 Squad the Flamers and the other Squad 2 Meltas to increase your anti vehicle count since you lost some from the Speeders.

Definaltey drop the AssCan from the Darkshroud. This thing is the priority target for your opponent. Therefore you want to turbo boost it every turn to increase its cover save, you'll never shoot it.

The Pred doesn't really add anything to that list - it#s just gonna draw all the AV fire your opponent has and die immediately.

Combat Squadding the bikes works as follows: You get 6 bikes, including the seargeant, a separate attack bike and a separate Speeder, if I'm not mistaken,

In total... For 1850 you can get Sammael, a Command Squad with the Dakka Banner, a Libby on a Bike for support, 3 full Squads with Meltas, Bikes with Meltas and the mentioned HB/TML Speeders plus 4 extra Black Knights and a Darkshroud.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401143.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401143.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Combat squads - this IS how it works, you get;
2 bikers + sergeant,
3 bikers,
Attack bike,
Land speeder. That's 4 scoring units. So, in your list, if you combat squad you'll get 16 scoring units!!

I'd honestly look at not taking multi meltas on the speeders, you want to keep them away from the enemy! Far away! Typhoons are awesome for long ranged fire support and are pretty all rounded!

So here's what I would do, drop the pred and drop one attack squad. You'll still have 12 scoring units with combat squads.

I'd then make the 3 speeders typhoons, and he's right - no assault cannon on the shroud. Turbo boost that every round for 2+ cover!

Ok, what to do with saves points - put a melta gun in each attack squad, it means when you combat squad down, one group of 3 has a Meltagun, 1 group of 3 has the flamer you then have set purposes.

Then upgrade that Ravenwing banner to a banner of devastation. With your level of bike mounted boltguns that banner will be awesome! Keep the units close, each bike licks out 4 shots at 24"! It's a lot more useful in this list than hit and run. Anything left over? Plow it into a unit of black knights. Those guys really are one of the best units in the dex! They are so so so good! Keep them near the shroud for a number tough and survivable unit!

Hey, these are just my thoughts. I like the list, I just think there's some wasted points that need tweaking! It's opinion though! It might be wrong ;-)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401183.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401183.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!

I was actually going to stick a Whirlwind in instead but I decided against it because of the minimum shooting range which would drive me up the wall!!!

Let me have another go, back in 5

Thanks for the comments guys...
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401199.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!

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Let me know how you get on with tweaking!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401216.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401216.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
I figure, 9 black knights, Sammael and a Techmarine will ruin someones day.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401228.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Shingen wrote:
Is it worth taking a Techmarine on a bike for "Bolster Defences"?

I figure, 9 black knights, Sammael and a Techmarine will ruin someones day.


......bolster defences has absolutely no effect on bikes at all, and is an utter waste of points in a Ravenwing build!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401237.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401245.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401245.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! RW lists a Libby can do the same and is generally more useful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401280.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401280.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Let me explain,

Jink is a type of cover save, it isn't an improvement on a cover save! So, if you drive your bike behind 4+ cover then you would use that as it's better than a standard jink save! Things you want to help jink is skilled rider, stealth, shrouded as they improve cover saves!

So, black knights!

Moving is 5+ cover because of jink,
Skilled rider is +1 cover
A darkshroud gives them stealth (+1 cover)
That's a total of 3+ cover - the same you'd get with bolster. The problem with bolster is it is a single piece of terrain so you have to stay still, with using and improving the jink save it becomes a mobile save that goes with them everywhere! See the bonus? The only HQ other than sammael worth thinking about is a librarian - on a bike.

Sorry for being brutal! :-(]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401282.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401282.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401539.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401539.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401553.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6401553.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!

Okay I changed it to the following, it suits the way I play more than anything plus a few tips of yours.

Command Squad - Dev Standard, Apoc
Sammael on bike
3x Ravenwing Squadrons - 6 bikes, 1 flamer, 1 melta, 1 land speeder (twin melta), 1 attack bike (heavy bolter)
1 darkshroud with just the heavy bolter
3x land speeders with melta
2x whirlwind


Some of your ideas are in there, like the melta / flamer squads, standard of dev etc and some of the ideas I came up with, i love multi melta's so they are staying, however I did drop the attack bikes down to heavy bolters.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402775.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402775.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! dev banner with all those bikes will be awesome though!


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Also, if you're interested, I'm kit bashing a bike librarian over in the modelling section of the forum!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402879.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Lol'd at the veterans withCS&BP. lol. why.Just don't.Especially in a rhino.

I rarely find Azreal useful apart from the whole Dualwing thing, otherwise just take the apropriate HQ, or better yet Libbies.HQ part isn't the place where you want to spend with DA.

Termies, especially DW, dont really benefit from heavy flamer. Itlly probably get 1-2 template shots at best. Also, doesnt benefit from splitfire. Take Assault Cannon to kill tanks and other nasty things.

12 bikers with just boltpistols is a waste. If you want to keep them as cheap as possible, park them behind a terrain and at last possible moment turboboost to objective. Otherwise take meltas, plasmas, or better yet, just tspend the points on Black knights.Theyre dope.

I never freaking ever take landspeeders without rockets. 24" with 10/10/10 is just bad. Also,heavy bolters are meh at best, so without rockets they are seriously outperformed in points by pretty much everything. Well, aside from chainsword veterans, ofc.(same thing for melta speeders)

And dev banner just gives more bolters. Whoptifuckingdoo. If it can be killed by a bolter, it can be killed with impact hits, sarges with powerweps/fists, termies and everything else.

To me, ravenwing is strong because of speed and blackknights, not because of that redicilous banner.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402919.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402919.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
vWreN wrote:
Too lazy to read though all the comments, just gonna comment on the innitial list.

Lol'd at the veterans withCS&BP. lol. why.Just don't.Especially in a rhino.

I rarely find Azreal useful apart from the whole Dualwing thing, otherwise just take the apropriate HQ, or better yet Libbies.HQ part isn't the place where you want to spend with DA.

Termies, especially DW, dont really benefit from heavy flamer. Itlly probably get 1-2 template shots at best. Also, doesnt benefit from splitfire. Take Assault Cannon to kill tanks and other nasty things.

12 bikers with just boltpistols is a waste. If you want to keep them as cheap as possible, park them behind a terrain and at last possible moment turboboost to objective. Otherwise take meltas, plasmas, or better yet, just tspend the points on Black knights.Theyre dope.

I never freaking ever take landspeeders without rockets. 24" with 10/10/10 is just bad. Also,heavy bolters are meh at best, so without rockets they are seriously outperformed in points by pretty much everything. Well, aside from chainsword veterans, ofc.(same thing for melta speeders)

And dev banner just gives more bolters. Whoptifuckingdoo. If it can be killed by a bolter, it can be killed with impact hits, sarges with powerweps/fists, termies and everything else.

To me, ravenwing is strong because of speed and blackknights, not because of that redicilous banner.



.....yeah, this guys a douche!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6402998.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
vWreN wrote:
Too lazy to read though all the comments, just gonna comment on the innitial list.

Lol'd at the veterans withCS&BP. lol. why.Just don't.Especially in a rhino.

I rarely find Azreal useful apart from the whole Dualwing thing, otherwise just take the apropriate HQ, or better yet Libbies.HQ part isn't the place where you want to spend with DA.

Termies, especially DW, dont really benefit from heavy flamer. Itlly probably get 1-2 template shots at best. Also, doesnt benefit from splitfire. Take Assault Cannon to kill tanks and other nasty things.

12 bikers with just boltpistols is a waste. If you want to keep them as cheap as possible, park them behind a terrain and at last possible moment turboboost to objective. Otherwise take meltas, plasmas, or better yet, just tspend the points on Black knights.Theyre dope.

I never freaking ever take landspeeders without rockets. 24" with 10/10/10 is just bad. Also,heavy bolters are meh at best, so without rockets they are seriously outperformed in points by pretty much everything. Well, aside from chainsword veterans, ofc.(same thing for melta speeders)

And dev banner just gives more bolters. Whoptifuckingdoo. If it can be killed by a bolter, it can be killed with impact hits, sarges with powerweps/fists, termies and everything else.

To me, ravenwing is strong because of speed and blackknights, not because of that redicilous banner.



.....yeah, this guys a douche!


Haha +1!

On to the actual list and discussion,

I'm still wanting to run the Dakka banner inside a LRC with two RAS with melta's, plasma's, AB's and Land Speeders backup by RWBK's, a Biker Libby, Sammael and a squad of Dev's. The only thing holding me back is the notion (or at least, my perception) of their low model count. Shooting up bikers is really easy for most armies (especially Eldar, Tau and Necrons). I fear I will get wiped easily with the bolter shots not doing a whole lot.

How does the Dakka banner fare against these armies?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403021.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403021.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Tau wise I face both farsight and regular forces quite a lot, the banner is good for both, but this is why I take shrouds. Either army normally has riptides. Tau players love riptides. To get the best from the banners you need close formations, this makes riptides ejaculate pie plates in your direction! So, jink with the shrouds stealth actually offers you pretty good protection from blast templates! Otherwise they need to get close to you to hurt you (except fire warriors)

Now let's take 6 bikes. Without the banner they have 6 shots at maximum range. Just 6. With the banner, that goes up to 24! And as good as tau and eldars shooting is, their toughness and armour is not great, and will struggle under mass bolter fire.

As for eldar, they have pathetic range! So 4 shots at 24" will shred them! Just keep them far away.

And don't forget! Those 24 shots ARE ALSO TWIN LINKED! It makes the bikes almost equal on points as a tac squad, but a HELL of a lot more powerful, and flexable!

This is why the dakka banner is awesome.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403104.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403104.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
I also play eldar and my Dark Reapers really like some dead bikers. 5 Dark Reaper with Prescience/Guide will put out 10 s5 ap3 ignore jink shots at 48 inch range. But I get your point. This is an army in which variance plays a big role and if luck is on your side you will often have a good time.

I'm looking forward to fielding my Ravenwing and seeing how they before nonetheless ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403135.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403147.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Play what you want to play, how you want to play it.

That being said; to compete with Dark Angels you've pretty much just got to embrace the rock paper scissors. Right now, your list is like, wet paper. Not gonna cut it.

You can certainly do the LRC rush. It has trouble against flier heavy and MC heavy; or of course anyone with enough melta. BUT; it can certainly blow away hordes and if you play carefully, you can effectively employ a board control/area denial strategy.

My favorite DA list? Black Knight/RWCS spam. It's actually a close combat list at heart; but obviously has good shooting as well with all the plasma. It looks something like this:

Sammael (Jetbike)
Librarian: BIke, ML1, PFG- 115

RWCS x5: Apothecary, RWCB- 245
RWCS x5: Apothecary- 230

RWAS x3- 80
RWAS x3- 80
RWAS x3- 80

Land Speeder: MM- 60
Land Speeder: MM- 60
Land Speeder: MM- 60

RWBK x5: Meltabombs, 1 RWGL- 215
RWBK x5: Meltabombs, 1 RWGL- 215
RWBK x5: 1 RWGL- 210

Total: 1850

Your troops are extremely weak so they're reserved and subsequently hidden until they need to gun for an objective. Other than that, your 25 black knights beat face; MM speeders are there in case you run into AV14. It's a glass cannon list, but it is fun to play. Just figured I'd add options.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403171.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403171.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Also, the player asked for HELP not positive encouragement, I mean if the heavy bolter landspeeder is bad, it is just bad. And calling it bad, telling to stay the feth away from it is a way greater help(to me) than finding idiotic situations or excuses to use it.

Anyway,right now I've gotta bail, I'd be happy to respond to any more opinions of harsh love.

Oh, and if anyone wants to defend Dakka banner and how it just adds to the redundancy of bolters(especially with two fething whirlwinds, or black knights on the field) be my guest.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403515.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403515.page GMT Re:Dark Angels 1850 - Help! AV vehicle are just an awful combination.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403528.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403528.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
vWreN wrote:
Yeah, about the douche thing, you actually might want to argue a point instead being overprotective, white knight or whatever. in this game you've got to think and think critically. That's what the army list forum is for, right?

Also, the player asked for HELP not positive encouragement, I mean if the heavy bolter landspeeder is bad, it is just bad. And calling it bad, telling to stay the feth away from it is a way greater help(to me) than finding idiotic situations or excuses to use it.

Anyway,right now I've gotta bail, I'd be happy to respond to any more opinions of harsh love.

Oh, and if anyone wants to defend Dakka banner and how it just adds to the redundancy of bolters(especially with two fething whirlwinds, or black knights on the field) be my guest.


I'm in utter agreement about heavy bolter speeders, in fact I was in agreement with pretty much everything you said, until you got about 4 lines from the end.

If you'd of bothered your arse to read all the thread, rather than 'I can't be bothered' you'd of seen that bolter speeders aren't being suggested. But to throw suggestions out after not bothering to read the thread, I guess you were kinda stabbing in the dark. It actually makes your post pretty null and void.

Lastly, the dakka banner, you are the ONLY person voting against it, doesn't that tell you something? It works, and is good, and for quite a measly amount of points it greatly increases the effectiveness of any RAS in range, by quite a substantial amount.

Anyone who is going to take full a RAS or two as their troops choices should always take that banner! Otherwise they can be out gunned by tac marines. In a RW list where model count is low, you need to get the most out of every single unit on the field, the dev banner is best for that.

For your info, I run a 2K RW list, I have 2 command squads of 5, 2 BK squads of 5, 2 full RAS with 2 melta guns, a MM on each attack bike and a TML on the speeders. Plus a shroud, Sammy and a Libby on a bike....pretty much the things YOU suggested, so in fact we actually have pretty similar ideas...apart from the banner! (I have it!)


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 sing your life wrote:
Why are you using veterans with Pistol+ Chainsword? Those units in a non- AV vehicle are just an awful combination.
those units are gone PLEASE read the full tread people!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403534.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403534.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! CC.

In a mixed setting, pretty much everything can outperform it. Well, aside from Vengeance, lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403585.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403585.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403708.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403708.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! RCS that good? I'd rather use those points for black knights. or devastators. Or Vindicators, or whatever.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403904.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6403904.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! RCS Are black knights, but aren't on the FOC. And my bikes are never still, I always want that jink save!


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Btw, RCS means if you're clever enough you can have 5 units of knights....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404088.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404088.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! lol) units of knights.

And since you always want that jink save the banner loses the best part of it's bonus. But yeah, going to bed now, it;s been an age old debate and always will remains such. Each to their own, anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404623.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404623.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6404934.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! AV 10 all round is too flimsy to risk getting that close.

As for the banner loses NO part of its ability if the bikes move? I don't know what on earth you are on about? I can only assume that as it means they are salvo weapons you are suggesting that moving means they only get the first profile. However, bikes have the relentless USR, and if you read the rule book on relentless related to salvo, it clearly states that the second profile is always used. This means the bikes ALWAYS count as stationary for the purposes of resolving shooting attacks, even if they moved.

Jesus this is hard work with you kids!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405336.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405336.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Anyway; this whole conversation is a moot point. DA cannot compete in this meta. You can go LRC spam and hope to rock-paper-scissors people, or as I laid plain, hope to overwhelm them with a plasma volley and assault...both are incomplete.

At least my version can beat Wave Serpents.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405347.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
DA competing, well....I honestly think it just depends on the terrain. If not for the bloody things that take away cover saves....

What you do need,though is Drop-pods with libbies who force initiative tests. That's for damn sure.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405667.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6405667.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406588.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406588.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
It's taking shape - as long as it's stuff you like and things you want to play with. It's ashame the attack bikes have lost the meltas, those dudes excel at tank hunting, but I am also a melta fan. Any room for typhoons? Those missiles on speeders are really good? Though I'm sensing you're not sold on the idea? I also get the feeling you don't have any love for the knights? The dev banner with all those bikes will be awesome though!


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Also, if you're interested, I'm kit bashing a bike librarian over in the modelling section of the forum!


Linky ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406850.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/571626.page#6406601]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406914.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6406914.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! DS or Pod.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6407453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6407453.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
vWreN wrote:
I'm not talking about a drop pod list, just a pod. Or just a librarian who can insta gib tides, crisis teams and such douchedickeries, probably via bike, DS or Pod.


Now you're totally talking my language! Libby's on bikes - love em!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6407733.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6407733.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6409340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6409340.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
Shingen wrote:
Thanks for all the comments so far guys. This all is starting to make sense in my head now which is good!


A lot of it does depend on what balance you're going for, just fun, super competitive, a middle ground of both?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410132.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410132.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410815.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410822.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! GK]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410830.page GMT Re:Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
1500 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1498

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts, Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 295 pts)
4 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Standard of Devastation

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 321 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Sergeant + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (7#, 266 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Sergeant + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (4#, 168 pts)
3 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (4#, 168 pts)
3 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 80 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410873.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6410873.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help!
I would be tempted to drop the vet sarge upgrades off the ravenwing bikes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6412792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6412792.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! RW Champion. Simply because you get more Precision Shots that way, 2 Characters snipe more than 1 Trading Rending for AP3 is kinda meh, but ok too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6412838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6412838.page GMT Dark Angels 1850 - Help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6413940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/571114/6413940.page GMT