<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Trolls should regenerate in some way

Trolls should be weak to fire, possibly afraid of fire. Maybe they cannot regenerate wounds from fire.

Trolls are very strong.

Trolls can see in the dark (although if this breaks game balance its pretty optional).

Trolls have no ranged attack or weapons, but perhaps could have a vomit attack using a template?

I also have that Troll Hag model from Forge World, which is much larger, but lets get into that later.

Thank you for your ideas.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6420848.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6420848.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Regeneration - I think there's a regeneration rule somewhere in the rulebook. Give me a sec... okay. No, it's not a special rule in the rulebook (from quickly skimming thought the rulebook) but it can always be given to the Trolls.

Weak to fire - If a Troll is attacked by a Flamer, it cannot regenerate. It must also take a leadership test. If the test fails, it falls back.

Very strong - In WHFB their S appears quite decent.

Can see in the dark - The Trolls can have the Night Vision special rule.

No ranged attacks (except vomit) - One Troll may take vomit. Vomit has the same startling as a flamer.

Hope that helps! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421426.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421439.page GMT Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Night Vision won't break the trolls at all - darkness only affects ranged attacks in 40k.

I think that the best way would be to treat them as Infantry (40k has no equivalent to Monstrous Infantry) with a near-Marine statline, something like;

WS 4 BS 1 S5 T4 W3 I2 A2 LD7 Sv 4+*

*4+ save is due to 'toughened hide and scaly skin'.

Then give them It Will Not Die! (4+) as a special rule, meaning that instead of a 6, they regenerate wounds on a 4. Then addendum that with antoher special rule;

Burn them! - Wounds from weapons and effects described as using 'flames' or 'acid', such as Heavy Flamers, or Tyranid Acid Blood cannot be recovered using It Will Not Die!

Wargear wise, a hand weapon would be suitable, but they should perhaps Rending to represent the fact they're much more dangerous than their pure lifting power would imply.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421675.page GMT Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Give them a statline similar to ogryn, but with It Will Not Die and maybe Feel No Pain too.

I wouldn't give them better than a 5+ save. Scaly skin is only going to do so much to stop autocannon shells.

Vomit attack could work like a flamer, or give them the equivalent of grenades (offensive and/or defensive).
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421827.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421827.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?

Lets start with their stats, using fantasy as a base (I may not have the latest version)

WS: 3
BS: 1
S: 5
T: 4
W: 3
I: 2
A: 3
LD: 5

Lets give them some equipment and natural armour.

Sharp Claws and Massive Clubs - Trolls use a variety of nasty weapons in combat that use the following profile:
S: User, AP: 4, Melee, Shred
Vomit - Some trolls have the ability to empty the contents of their stomach in a vast gush over quite a distance using the following profile:
Range: Template, S: 5, AP: 6,
Tough Hide: Trolls have a 5+ Armour Save

Some Universal Special Rules.

Adamantium Will - They are to stupid to be effected by "magic"
Very Bulky
Fear
Feel No Pain & It will Not Die - These combined give the right unkillable monster feel.
Acute Senses - Nightvision is of no use to them but they maybe able to outflank under special circumstances so this seems more appropriate.

Then a couple of Unique special rules.

Vulnerable to Flame: A Troll may not take a Feel No Pain save against wounds caused by a Flame or Melta weapon.
Stupidity: Trolls are very dim and don't react to things as normal rational beings do, to represent this they automatically pass all moral checks they are required to make and maynot choose to go to ground.
Unfortunately they can't be relied upon to carry out a battle plan so each unit of Trolls must take a leadership test at the start of their movement phase (may use the leadership of an attached character), if they pass they may act normally this turn. If they fail roll a D6 and consult the following table to see how they are effected this turn.

1-2 Urrr.. : The Trolls cannot take any voluntary actions this turn. (No moving, Shooting, Running, Assaulting, etr..)
3-4 Umm.. : The Trolls move D6" in a random direction instead of their normal movement, stopping if they would enter impassable terrain/another model/1" of an enemy model.
5-6 Grrr.. : The Trolls gain the Rage & Furious Charge special rules for the rest of the turn and must attempt to assault the closest enemy unit if one is within 12" during the assault phase.

Now the hard part - Points Cost.

They are close combat monsters that are pretty survivable but they don't have good AP on their weapons, take up lots of transport space if you want to give them a ride and ideally need a character in the unit to keep them under control.
If we compare them to 3 Boyz (who take up the same transport space) they have the same T & W but have slightly better armour and FNP+IWND so come out on top in survivability terms. They have alot less attacks but are stronger with better attack special rules so are reasonable even depending on the target.
So I'd generally much prefer them to 3 Boyz (who cost 18pts) and as these are homebrew rules it's best to overcost than undercost, also remember a Nob with 'Eavy Armour and Big Choppa costs 30pts.

Trolls: 28 points per model

Unit size: 3-6

Any Troll maybe upgraded with the ability to vomit: +7pts


OK those were longer than they appeared in my head, let me know your thoughts
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421901.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
 WisdomLS wrote:
OK those were longer than they appeared in my head, let me know your thoughts

Vomit seems a little too strong for what it is. Even Troll vomit should be less lethal than napalm. Maybe something like S 2, AP 6, Blind, would be more appropriate.

T 4 makes them vulnerable to instant death from S 8+. See Tyranid players' opinions on Tyranid Warriors for how popular that makes a unit.

Concussive would seem to make sense for their melee attacks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421926.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6421926.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Perfect Organism wrote:

Vomit seems a little too strong for what it is. Even Troll vomit should be less lethal than napalm. Maybe something like S 2, AP 6, Blind, would be more appropriate.

T 4 makes them vulnerable to instant death from S 8+. See Tyranid players' opinions on Tyranid Warriors for how popular that makes a unit.

Concussive would seem to make sense for their melee attacks.


I'd agree that the vomit seems a little good compared to heavy flamer, maybe S: 3, AP:6, Blind. I think 2 strength is to low to do much and the ability does cost extra points.

I know T4 suffers from instant death but that's one of the balancing factors, a daemon prince is T5 and trolls are nowhere near as tough as one of them, their main survivability is due to them being able to regenerate wounds.
At T5 they would need to cost alot more, it all depend on how competitive the OP wants them to be I suppose. As I said its always best to design self made units to be overcosted as then people are more likely to be ok with you using them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6422005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6422005.page GMT Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
Perfect Organism wrote:
Didn't chaos armies used to be able to take trolls? I'm sure I remember seeing stats for them in Epic, at least. Or maybe I'm thinking of minotaurs.

Give them a statline similar to ogryn, but with It Will Not Die and maybe Feel No Pain too.

I wouldn't give them better than a 5+ save. Scaly skin is only going to do so much to stop autocannon shells.

Vomit attack could work like a flamer, or give them the equivalent of grenades (offensive and/or defensive).


Autocannons are AP4, so they'll still ignore the trolls' scaly skin save. 4+ protects against most small arms fire, while still being vulnerable to medium heavy weapons like heavy bolters and autocannons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6423062.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6423062.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
I really like the stupidity rule as well.

Are they Monstrous Creatures, or is that overpowered? Too small to be MC's?

I do agree that their staying power should come from regeneration. I don't have a problem with them being susceptible to ID.

So far as costing, I'd only ever play with friends, so they won't care. I don't have any good feel for points at all so whatever you guys think is "fair".

Should I rebase them onto round bases? If so, what base size is appropriate? They're on square bases that are about 2 inch by 2 inch by default.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425578.page GMT Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k? 40k. For Monstrous Creature equivalents, you're looking at more like dragons, manticores, etc (Monsters).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425633.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425670.page GMT Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k? ID is that it well and truly makes it *not* "as tough as three boyz" as mentioned before.

However, a slow, braindead, close range unit with ID vulnerability will *never* be any good competitively, so don't even worry about it.

I wouldn't bother costing it at all, just make it into a campaign game unit or something and have a laugh

Edit; Chuck them on the 40mm bases imo. It'll look better than the squares.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6425727.page GMT Re:Looking for assistance creating rules for Trolls in 40k?
It Just Won't Stay Dead; Models with this rule follow the Necron Resurrection Protoculs rule. Basically at the end of any phase in which a Troll was killed roll a D6, on a 5+ place it back on the table where it died with one wound. This effect cannot be used in a phase in which the model suffered a wound from a Flame or Melta weapon.

Adds the ability to get back up from instant death whilst also adding to their flavour, would need to up their points by maybe 5ppm to 33. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6426191.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/572531/6426191.page GMT