changerofways wrote:
I think the black mace would be better on the daemon prince. The brand is really only a good item to put on cheap lords, as it gives them the power of a heldrake, but at only 100 points instead of 170. If you put it on a 250 point FMC that is going to use it once, go into CC, and then die...its not so worth it.

Your troops are unusual, but seem ok.

your predators should not take possession. BS3 is not worth what it gains...they should not be getting fired upon enough for this to be worth it. Really only vindicators are worth taking this upgrade on.

If you're going to do a gunline CSM list you really need some oblits and an ADL

Why would this be cheesy? This isn't an OP list at all

Iron General wrote:
Opinions on this list welcome =]

Keep in mind I'm trying to be well rounded and limiting on the cheese factor!

HQ 250pts
Daemon Prince w/Burning Brand, Power Armor, Mark of Tzeentch, and Wings

Troop 267pts x3
Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta, Las Cannon, Icon of Vengence
Champs with Combi-Meltas+Power Fists
Rhinos w/ Havoc Launchers

Fast Attack 170pts x2
Heldrakes w/ Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Chaos Predator w/ Twin-Linked Las, Las Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, Possessed 167pts
Chaos Predator w/ Twin-Linked Las, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, Possessed 147pts
Havocs w/ Autocannons x4
Champ w/ Icon of Vengence 140pts

5pts to spare!

Pros:
5x Las
4x Autocannon
5x Havoc Launchers
Ap 2 in units
Mobility
Air AP3

Cons:
No Deepstrike
No 2+ Armor
Not very melee capable

Strategy involves rhino screens/gunlines with a very shooty early game targeting anti air/troop transports, transitioning towards objective capture when air support weakens ground units.

aeglos wrote:

Iron General wrote:
Opinions on this list welcome =]

Keep in mind I'm trying to be well rounded and limiting on the cheese factor!

HQ 250pts
Daemon Prince w/Burning Brand, Power Armor, Mark of Tzeentch, and Wings

Troop 267pts x3
Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta, Las Cannon, Icon of Vengence
Champs with Combi-Meltas+Power Fists
Rhinos w/ Havoc Launchers

Fast Attack 170pts x2
Heldrakes w/ Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Chaos Predator w/ Twin-Linked Las, Las Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, Possessed 167pts
Chaos Predator w/ Twin-Linked Las, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, Possessed 147pts
Havocs w/ Autocannons x4
Champ w/ Icon of Vengence 140pts

5pts to spare!

Pros:
5x Las
4x Autocannon
5x Havoc Launchers
Ap 2 in units
Mobility
Air AP3

Cons:
No Deepstrike
No 2+ Armor
Not very melee capable

Strategy involves rhino screens/gunlines with a very shooty early game targeting anti air/troop transports, transitioning towards objective capture when air support weakens ground units.

Looks like a well-rounded list. I do have a few comments, and may be able to free up some points for you.

Havocs: Icon of Vengance is useful for being sure that they will not run off the board (as long as champ remains alive!), but is very expensive. Maybe consider Veterans of the Long War instead? It will save you 20 points that could be deployed elsewhere, and buffs your Ld to 10 (9 if champ dies), which is pretty darn good.

Laspreds: I love these, and have two myself. I think that the Havoc launcher is a waste, though. The Havoc is a Str5 AP5 TL weapon, and is much better as anti-personnel. It will not harm most vehicles and isn't terribly useful against MCs, either. Since the Laspred is a anti-vehicle / anti-MC specialist, the points may be better spent elsewhere. If you want it on there for one more weapon (in case of weapon destroyed penetration rolls), the combi-bolter is much cheaper. But, I would leave that off myself, and save the points.

Rhinos: Havoc launchers make much more sense on these, but given that Rhinos tend to die quickly, these may be wasted as well. If you are going to put a squad in a Rhino and hang in the backfield for a late-game objective sprint, then the Havoc launcher is a good idea. It can provide long-range anti-personnel fire, and your lascannon CSM can fire from one of the access points as well. If, however, you are planning to push forward with the rhinos, then I would leave the launchers off - at least for the rhinos that are going to move on turn 1.

Potential total point savings from above changes: 80 (assuming all havocs get dropped).

I completely agree with the other poster about demonic possession on the laspreds. You need these guys to hit hard, and hit often. BS3 hurts you. AV13 and 3 hull points should keep them in the game for a few rounds, and you will probably not be moving them around a lot once you find a good cover position (deployement, hopefully). So demonic possession is a large point spend against a low-probability outcome should you suffer a penetrating hit. That frees up another 30 points, bringing you up to 110, plus the 5 your had to spare to begin with.

You are now flirting with being able to afford a three man termicide unit or a 5 may raptor squad, both of whom could be a deepstrike threat. Or, maybe a cheap lord, sorcerer, or dark apostle as a 2nd HQ unit.

Last thought would be to delete a power fist or two from your CSM champions to free up more points for a very effective termicide squad. 115 plus another 25 or 50 gives you a very capable deepstrike squad that could combi-melta their way through enemy armor and may survive to get into CC in their backfield.

Good luck,
-Aeglos

Iron General wrote:
Considering Changing HQ to DP w/ Burning Brand, Nurgle Mark, lvl 3 psyker and casting from cover w/ Shrouded

Area Terrain cover saves and Nurgle seem very difficult to deal with

aeglos wrote:

Iron General wrote:
Considering Changing HQ to DP w/ Burning Brand, Nurgle Mark, lvl 3 psyker and casting from cover w/ Shrouded

Area Terrain cover saves and Nurgle seem very difficult to deal with

I've not tried that with the burning brand, but it does sound like it could be very effective if you can manage the cover and stay in range of the torrent weapon. There are quite a few "ignores cover" weapons out there, but he's pretty tough to kill.

You need to take at least 2 abilities from the nurgle list, though, since at least half must be from the "marked" list. They aren't the most effective ones in the book and two of them are 12" or less range. The torrent weapon has 12" range + template length.

I'd choose Biomancy for the last power, hope for Iron Arm or Endurance as a buff.

I think it could be a good combo.

-Aeglos

 westiebestie wrote:
I think you overupgraded your troop choices a bit. You are either going to waste the lascannon or the meltas as they have very different ranges. Do you really need the fearlessness that bad?

I'm also not convinced you can give an Icon to your champion as he is a character and has a separate upgrade/wargear mention. Same as. he cannot take the heavy weapon, or a NM champion cannot take a Sonic blaster. The Champion gets to buy wargear from the Wargear section at point costs listed there.

 Sparkadia wrote:
The second Laspred may as well swap his Heavy Bolters for more Lascannons. No use diversifying the weapons when it has a dedicated AT role.

In the same way, the Warpflame Gargoyles won't be very useful as the vast majority of the time its STR will not be high enough to damage its target, vehicles.

If the second Pred is intended to be anti-infantry, just leave it stock with HB Sponsors and take Warpflame on it (as the Soul Blaze can actually damage infantry)