http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net LOS, don't want to move, and have the unfortunate luck of going second? My only idea is Target Saturation. Using Dreads, Blobs, maybe blocking them with a rhino, but if that gets wrecked and blocks your LOS you still have to waste another turn moving.

Generally I use Oblits that can move and shoot, so I haven't had this problem yet, but I really wanna try a Triple Havoc list.

An aegis defence line is also an option.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6466849.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6466849.page GMT AP variants, he isn't targeting your tanks or fast CC elements.

Blocking them with a Rhino with a Havoc launcher that has the same range is also a pretty good tactic.

That said, I'm an Eldar player, I just often play against CSM and picked up a trick or two.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6467941.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6467941.page GMT
The Rhino trick, even with the flat out gimmick, is too much of a waste of points to be effective.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6468022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/575270/6468022.page GMT