http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
I’m just getting back into 40k after a good 16 years away so everything is new and a lot different to when I used to play. I decided to start a marine army and picked Dark Angels just because I always loved them and the Dark Vengeance box set was much better value for money than anything else.

My problem is I’m having a hard time against my friend. We play at the 750pt mark and I’m yet to beat his Saim Haim Eldar list out of a good 20 games (I have come close a couple of times).
We have decided to up the points a bit to 1000 and I would really like to field an army that is a little bit competitive. He normally runs 1 of 2 different setups. The first is a bike heavy list with farseer a shed load of bikes (Normally 10 to 12), 3 x walkers and some dire avengers in a wave serpent. This is the list I have a hard time against. The second list is a fire prism, wraith lord, some wraithguard and dire avengers.
I have purchased a number of new models and I can field a few different setups. My list of available models is as follows:

Belial, Azreal, Librarian (Infantry and converted bike) and Company master as HQ choices.
15 x Deathwing terminators (2 x DV sets and Deathwing command boxset)
1 x Venerable Dreadnought with Lascanon & Assault Cannon for right arm and Missile launcher, Auto canon and powerfirst/bolter combo for left arm.
6 x bikes (2 x DV sets. 1 sgt I have converted to a librarian so really only 5)
1 x landspeeder typhoon
2 x 10 man tactical squad with 1 x rhino
5 x scouts with sniper rifles
1 x landraider Crusader
1 x Dev squad with 2 x Lascannon and 2 x Plasma cannon
Aegis defence line

Any help on creating a 1000pt list is very much appreciated. I also have money to spend so any suggestions outside my current available models is more than welcome.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6503790.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6503790.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6504484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6504484.page GMT tac marines for obj?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6504646.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6504646.page GMT
A quick breakdown of what I have been running at 750 points.

Level 2 librarian on bike with power field generator - 150 points
Dreadnought with Twin Linked Lascannon and Twin Linked Autocannon - 140 points
5 man scout squad with cloaks and sniper rifles - 60 points
10 man Tactical Squad with plasma gun and plasma cannon (Sgt has plasma pistol) - 185 points
Ravenwing squad 3 x bikes + Sgt (2 x plasma gun) - 137 points
Land Speeder with Typhoon missiles and heavy bolter - 75 points

total = 747 points

I normally sit my dreadnought out the way as 48" is normally in range of everything. I like divination on my Librarian mainly for prescience, and I obviously keep him with the rest of the bikes for the 4++ save on them.

The bikes normally do really well I think my biggest problem is my troops. Its hard to get to where I need to be without being targeted, marching my plasma cannon across the board also makes it pretty useless and my scouts are normally wiped out on first turn. Then with my mate having loads of bike he can just turbo boost around the board grab objectives and the games over.

I did have a list in mind for 1000 points but I'm not sure if its any good.

HQ - Librarian level 1 (Just for prescience) power field generator - 95 points
Elites - 1 x Terminator squad with assault cannon and cyclone missile launcher - 265 points
Troops - 2 x 10 man tactical Squad with 2 x plasma gun and 2 x plasma cannon 1 x Rhino - 375 points
Heavy support - 1 x Dev squad 2 x Lascannon and 2 x Plasma Cannon - 140 points
Aegis Defence Line with Quad-gun - 150 points

Total - 975 points

My plan was to combat squad the tactical squads and keep the plasma cannons behind the aegis with the dev squad. This would give some extra bodies to soak up wounds. The Librarian would be behind the aegis with the rest casting prescience on the devs and firing the Quad-gun.

The remainder of the tactical squads would jump in the Rhino and move across the board for objectives.

Deathwing squad would deathwing assault and try and take out his bikes.

This still leaves me with 25 points to spend.

any advice is much appreciated, I was thinking of removing the dev squad and Quad-gun. Keeping the two combat squads with plasma cannons behind the aegis then spending the points on a bike squad with landspeeder and putting my Librarian on a bike again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also in answer to your question Guitarquero, I haven't put them together yet so I can build as needed. I didn't fancy a command squad for 1000 points but was thinking of just running them as normal terminators. I could also build them as knights but against the eldar army I would never get close enough.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506413.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506413.page GMT
Your issue is you have a bit over everything and that doesn't really work for competitive play, particularly with a very middle tier (at best) codex. Tau can get away with having a bit of a hotch potch in normal play and so can Eldar to a lesser extent. But any marine list needs focus and DA need it more than most (they are probably the weakest marine codex).

So what type of list do you want to run? Deathwing (will always struggle against decent players), Greenwing (easy to play but very predictable), Ravewing (black knights are boss this probably the best way to go), Crusader spam (rock, paper, scissors list that can still beat some of the top tier lists).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506443.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506443.page GMT
I have always been drawn to Ravenwing, I think my biggest concern was the high points cost of the HQ units. I'm thinking of getting Sammael next and invest in a Dark angels battleforce.

Can you viably field a competitive Ravenwing army at 1000 points though?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506504.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506504.page GMT

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sammael is expensive but not too bad get a 5 man Ravenwing Command to join him to and a bunch of bikers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506577.page GMT
I think greenwing sounds the most fun, I like deathwing but terminators seem way to expensive for a 1000point list and like you say they never do too well against good players.

I'm going to order a Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad, so I'll have the banner and a razorback as a starting point.

With that in mind how would you field a 1000point greenwing? I want to have fun more than anything. I have put something together from what I have so any advice is greatly appreciated.

HQ - Librarian with power field generator LvL 2 - 130 points
HQ - Command Squad with Banner & Razorback - Not sure how to kit this group out but with boltguns and 1 x plasma gun it comes in as 255 points
Troops - 2 x 10 man Tactical Squad 2 x plasma gun and 2 x plasma cannon + 1 x Rhino - 375 points

So that's 760 points leaving me 240 points to spend on anything else.

What would you include for the rest of the points? Would you combat squad the tactical squads etc.? do I take my dreadnought and order a drop pod? Devs and the Aegis defence line?

Thanks]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506652.page GMT ADL. I'd go all plasma on the command squad. Probably wouldn't bother mechanising. Would instead just get more boots on the ground. You want 2-3 full squads for this type of list. Then Devs for Heavy support as they provide AT and more boots and boltguns.

Something like this:

Libby: 65
Command Squad: banner of Devastation, Apothecary, 4 combiplasmas 220

10 Tac Marines: plasma gun 155
10 Tac Marines: plasma gun 155
10 Tac Marines: plasma gun 155

10 Devastator Marines: 4 MLs 200

ADL

That's potentially 156 boltguns shots at 24"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506675.page GMT
I have a few questions mainly to do with tactics. How would you play this kind of list. Do I stick them all behind the aegis? Do I take care of his ranged units with the Devs and wait for him to come closer? How do I deal with objectives etc.

Noob question but it's been a long time since I played properly.

Thanks]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506723.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506723.page GMT ADL doesn't have to be in your deployment zone. It depends on whether your opponents army is going to come at you or not. If he will then castle up behind it. If not put it about 6" forward from your deployment zone and walk up to it turn 1.

Use the Devs to pop vehicles, plasma to supplement. Then boltguns down anything with a T value. You will be able to get rerolls to hit on a unit too. 36 twin linked boltguns shots from a tac squad is pretty scary.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506757.page GMT
Thanks again.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506873.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/577746/6506873.page GMT