<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft Just drawn up this list with a view to making it as competitive as possible (it probably sucks at the minute!).

Any and all changes can be made so suggest away, this is very much a WIP list!!!

I usually play very fluff driven armies based around my Word Bearers so not used to writing power lists, anyway, here goes:

HQ
Daemon Prince
Mark of Nurgle, Wings, Black Mace, Sigil of Corruption
270

Troops
CSM Squad (10)
2 Plasma Guns, Add. CCW's, VotLW, Icon of Vengeance, Rhino
278

CSM Squad (10)
2 Plasma Guns, Add. CCW's, VotLW, Icon of Vengeance, Rhino
278

Chaos Cultists (10)
Shotgun*
52

Chaos Cultists (10)
Shotgun*
52

Fast Attack
Heldrake
Baleflamer

Heldrake
Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Havocs (5)
4 Autocannons
115

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
115

*had X points left over so put a shotgun on both cultist champs]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6524305.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6524305.page GMT Re:1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft CSM troops. I would drop and go Tri-Las on the Predator if you can scrape up the points. Make the predator your primary anti MC and vehicle unit.

I would probably go plague marines instead of vanilla CSM. You get fearless and FNP, and 7 of them is more survivable than 10 CSM in my opinion. You still get two,special weapons, and can do combi weapons on champs if points allow. Plus with poison they can actually hurt MC opponents in melee.

Your dp is going to attract a ton of shooting before your drakes come in. Sigil is 4++ but expensive. No power armor means 16% more hits even from bolter fire, etc. I'm worried about his survivability. Maybe some other folks will have options for you. For those points you could go dark apostle with the cultists and a cheap lord or sorcerer to join a plague marine squad. Just one option.

Aeglos]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6525269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6525269.page GMT Re:1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft DP, in case that's what you were thinking. The "Daemon of Nurgle" upgrade will give him Shrouded and Slow & Purposeful, but does nothing for his Toughness. The DP can buy Chaos Rewards (Ichor Blood, Gift of Mutation, Familiars, etc) and Chaos Artefacts, but has no access to Special Wargear (Sigils etc).

So, to clarify, your DP cannot have Mark of Nurgle, and cannot buy a Sigil of Corruption. He can have Wings and a Black Mace (Chaos Artefacts), and he can get T6 Toughness via a lucky Gift of Mutation roll, but he's not what you think he is.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6525416.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6525416.page GMT Re:1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6526156.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6526156.page GMT Re:1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft VOTLW and IoV on your CSM.

You do not have enough troops for a chaos undivided list. This would be fine if you had zerkers or PMs or tsons, but you just have vanilla CSM, so you need, oh, 4 squads of 10 in rhinos with doubled out special weapons.

A nurgle DP is not fluffy! Get rid of him. Besides, 1 FMC always disappoints. They are not durable enough for how aggressive they must play, and I can tell you from experience that you must take at least 2 if not 3 FMCs for them to be effective.

Aren't the word bearers sorcerers? Take two ML 3 ones with telepathy spells, they rock! Use them to bring some great utility to the battlefield.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6526235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6526235.page GMT Re:1500pts CSM Tournament List - First Draft
aeglos wrote:Unless you are facing mostly marine armies, I'm not sure VoLW is worth it on the CSM troops. I would drop and go Tri-Las on the Predator if you can scrape up the points. Make the predator your primary anti MC and vehicle unit.

I would probably go plague marines instead of vanilla CSM. You get fearless and FNP, and 7 of them is more survivable than 10 CSM in my opinion. You still get two,special weapons, and can do combi weapons on champs if points allow. Plus with poison they can actually hurt MC opponents in melee.

Your dp is going to attract a ton of shooting before your drakes come in. Sigil is 4++ but expensive. No power armor means 16% more hits even from bolter fire, etc. I'm worried about his survivability. Maybe some other folks will have options for you. For those points you could go dark apostle with the cultists and a cheap lord or sorcerer to join a plague marine squad. Just one option.

Aeglos

I mainly do play against Marines, however, I want this to be an all comers list that I could take to a tourney and wouldn't get embarrassed by my opponents with! As such I'll drop the VotLW. Agreed on the Predator, I just didn't have the points before but I've re-jigged now.

Not switching to Plague Marines as I like my Word Bearers and want to keep the army reasonably fluffy, although i agree with all your reasons for using them, I was planning on adding a PM Bike unit at larger points, less fluffy but I think a great unit

The DP has gone and been replaced by a Sorceror now, he survives reasonably well in the games against my gaming group, but we have plenty of terrain to make the most out of Shrouded and keep him alive!

Mizzri wrote:You can't buy Mark of Nurgle for a Daemon Prince (I know, I know - I just found out myself) so that's not a T6 DP, in case that's what you were thinking. The "Daemon of Nurgle" upgrade will give him Shrouded and Slow & Purposeful, but does nothing for his Toughness. The DP can buy Chaos Rewards (Ichor Blood, Gift of Mutation, Familiars, etc) and Chaos Artefacts, but has no access to Special Wargear (Sigils etc).

So, to clarify, your DP cannot have Mark of Nurgle, and cannot buy a Sigil of Corruption. He can have Wings and a Black Mace (Chaos Artefacts), and he can get T6 Toughness via a lucky Gift of Mutation roll, but he's not what you think he is.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(

Doh....I meant Daemon of Nurgle, just a throw back to the old days when you gave them marks I didn't realise he couldn't take the Sigil though

Thanks for the heads up on that, would rather know than play and basically be cheating, although unintentionally.

elaps wrote:Stick your Nurgle prince in terrain and he gets a 2++ save since shrouded is cumulative with terrain save. In my opinion, drop the shotguns and bring an extra cultist, it's more worth the points.

Well I agree with you on the DP and in my gaming group he survives really well, but he's now gone in my list and will be saved for larger games whilst I try to create and then use a tourney list. I agree on the extra cultist being worthwhile, that's just my OCD of liking to have nice numbers in units

changerofways wrote:I find Icon of vengeance is pricey to take on anything but a deathstar. I feel your list wastes points by putting both VOTLW and IoV on your CSM.

You do not have enough troops for a chaos undivided list. This would be fine if you had zerkers or PMs or tsons, but you just have vanilla CSM, so you need, oh, 4 squads of 10 in rhinos with doubled out special weapons.

A nurgle DP is not fluffy! Get rid of him. Besides, 1 FMC always disappoints. They are not durable enough for how aggressive they must play, and I can tell you from experience that you must take at least 2 if not 3 FMCs for them to be effective.

Aren't the word bearers sorcerers? Take two ML 3 ones with telepathy spells, they rock! Use them to bring some great utility to the battlefield.

The Icon of Vengeance AND VotLW have been dropped from my units in the new list, not sure if it was wise to drop both or not though?

I agree that I didn't have enough regular CSM's for an undivided list, but I don't think I can squeeze in 4 of them at full size in a Rhino at 1500 points. The new list has 3 of them in as well as a cultist unit to roll on in reserve to claim objectives near my deployment zone.

I'll be honest and say the Nurgle DP has never disappointed me! However it seems to be the general consensus to drop him so he's gone now and been replaced by..... a Mastery Level 3 Sorceror I normally run a Sorceror who is my Dark Apsotle (I still don't agree with every legion/warband having them) because I think the Dark Apostle is overpriced, but maybe I'm just using him wrong!
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Thanks for the input guys, here's my new redesigned list, taking into account things that have been said and adjusted to how I think makes it work best. If anybody has any comments and critiques then please post them so I can develop my list further if need be. Anyway, here's the list:

HQ
Sorceror
Mastery Level 3, Spell Familiar
125

Troops
CSM Squad (10)
2 Plasma Guns, Add. CCW's, Rhino
Lightning Claw, Meltabombs
243

CSM Squad (10)
2 Plasma Guns, Add. CCW's, Rhino
Lightning Claw, Meltabombs
243

CSM Squad (10)
2 Plasma Guns, Add. CCW's, Rhino
Lightning Claw, Meltabombs
243

Chaos Cultists (10)
50

Fast Attack
Heldrake
Baleflamer

Heldrake
Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Havocs (5)
4 Autocannons
115

Predator
Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
140]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6542544.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/579000/6542544.page GMT