http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
HQ
Haeme

ELITES
3 trueborn
2 lances, venom w extra cannon

3 trueborn
2 lances, venom w extra cannon

TROOPS
5 warriors
Blaster, venom w extra cannon night shields

5 warriors
Blaster, venom w extra cannon night shields

5 warriors
venom w extra cannon night shields

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager

Ravager
Night shields, gristly trophies

Voidraven
Flickerfield

Eldar allies
HQ
Farseer
Bike, mantle

TROOPS
3 jetbikes

FAST ATTACK
Crimson hunter exarch

HEAVY SUPPORT
Wraithknight

There it is. I think the things that did best for me was the gristly trophies on the ravager letting me eerily psychic checks to twin link my ravagers. And my flyers where invaluable when I played a flyer spam necron list. I think the biggest trouble for people with this list was target saturation. They either wheat after the venoms and forgot to kill the guys inside because my wraithknight was getting close or went for the wraithknight and the ravagers and forgot the venoms. I did get a little lucky with some rolls (made 3 flicker field saves on my void raven which then killed 2 broadsides) but I think If played well it challenges top tier armies. Please note my fort game was against a MC spam nid list as soon as he saw my army he said he might as well take it off I felt bad for him but he was a great sport.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6561987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6561987.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6563484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6563484.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6563620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6563620.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564831.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564831.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564859.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564859.page GMT DE dont have twin linked on anything makes for some pretty grim times.

Reserves are a problem as well as there are no characters that can add +1 to reserves. The best you can do is an allied Eldar Autarch or a Comm Relay on a ADL or Bastion.

To make DE competitive you need to use Eldar really as the Primary list and DE as allies. There are a number of different ways of making this work.


Quirky things that work and can be used to great effect...

2 Farseers, Baron Sathonix & a Beastpack.

If the Farseers get Fortune you end up being able to reroll saves on the Beastpack, Khymera are the basis of this list as they are incredibly cheap, have a 4+ invul and have 3 base attacks in CC. You can take up to 25 of them in a squad which would give you 100 attacks on the charge assuming they are all still alive, plus the Farseers attacks, the Barons and the Beastmasters.


FNP

Wracks are probably the best choice of base unit in the Codex. Take 5 of them in a Venom with a Liquifier gun and watch Bike armies cry a slow and painful death.


Haywire

This is something DE excel at, somewhat better even than spamming lances. Wyches are not only cheap but you can easily kill any armored vehicle in 1 turn. Best bet is to stick 9 of these in a Raider with a Haemonculus, give the Raider Retrofire Jets and deep strike it. You cannot charge the turn it arrives but you can still chuck a Haywire Grenade and use the Dark Lance on the Raider on a Vehicle. Alternatively you can get out and fire off the Haemoculus' Liquifier and 9 Splinter Pistol shots (or chuck a Plasma Grenade for good measure with 1 model.


Blasterborn in Venoms

Deep Strike these so they don't all die on turn 1. If they start on the board the Venoms will be priority number 1 even before the Ravagers. 4x S8 AP2 shots at 18" plus 12x Poison AP5 shots on the turn they arrive can be deadly. Plus they can shoot separate targets.


Spamming Dark Light Weapons

Despite popular belief, Ravagers are better with 3x Disintegrators on them, you can get anti vehicle from other sources (namely the Haywire or from Armorbane weapons on Eldar Allies).

This goes back to the not having ignoring cover and no twin linking, you would be surprised how often you roll poorly with only 3 shots each.

This can work well however if you can drop enough of them in one place at once. Again this goes back to Autarch for 2+ reserves and dropping 3x Blasterborn Squads and 3x Ravagers on someones head.


Poison Weapons

Despite being good against Monstrous Creatures they are practically useless against most anything else. Only AP5 and always wounding on a 4+ doesnt help in any way with shooting Vehicles, hordes of low toughness models or anything with a 2+, 3+ or 4+ save. You can make this work though on Raiders with Splinter Racks and either 10x Warriors or 10x Trueborn in them.


Grisly Trophies

If you have Eldar Primary with Farseers or Warlocks this is perhaps the most useful 5 point vehicle upgrade ever.


Skyshield Landing Pads

You have to pay to upgrade Ravagers and Raiders to get a 5+ invul. If you take 6 of those you are spending 60 pts, a Skyshield is 75 Points and gives a 4+ invul and an even better cover save. Plus you can deep strike onto it without scattering. Deploy it as close to the enemy as possible and utilize it as best you can.


Anti Air

DE suck at this, there is nothing else to say on the matter, you need Eldar allies to glance them down or Give Ravagers Twin linked. You can also use Warlocks to remove their Jink save (its a Malediction, you dont need to roll to hit although they still get a 6+ Deny the Witch).

You could of course take a ADL for the Quad Gun but its a waste of points. Crimson Hunters are without Doubt the best Anti Air unit in the game, with the Exarch upgrade you are hitting on 2+ and with Pulse Lasers and Bright Lances you have 6x S8 AP2 shots. Also the Crimson Hunter has a skill that lets you reroll failed Glances and Penetrations. If it doesnt kill a unit a turn its a miracle.

They are very flimsy though but considering they have Vector Dancer its your own fault if it dies as you have basically misplaced it.


Things to stay away from...

> Venom Spam, it doesnt work, dont bother trying it.
> Mandrakes are useless.
> Helions are crap.
> Webway Portals sound good in Theory but really they suck (unless you are using 3x 10 Man Reaver Jetbike units with 9x Cluster Caltrops in which case they are truly epic, you should end up with 33x S4 Wounds and 27x S6 Wounds the turn they arrive plus because they turn boosted you will have a 3+ Jink save next turn, very expensive to run these units however).
> Dont put a single Blaster in a 5 man Warrior squad in a Venom, its pointless.
> Dont give any Infantry unit a Dark Lance or you are stuck not moving or snap firing the thing, Scourge would be a good option here with Blasters or Haywire Blasters but you are mixing weapons again.
> Never mix Poison and other Weapons in 1 Unit, you will be wasting shots most of the game (as per the 2 points above).
> Never take Vect's Dais without a Skyshield, its an expensive Pinata.
> DE are all about fast movement, dont take anything that has to sit and shoot.
> DE are Glass Cannons, if you wont be able to hit with something in turn 1 because you will be out of Range dont use it.


There are some good Flying heavy lists you can make with Eldar / Dark Eldar, the Beastpack or Warlock Council are the most used units probably from both codex's. Realistically you can use DE on their own but its not advisable.


As for your list, I would suggest you take some of the tips above and put them to work. There are some DE Primary lists that work but I would never entrust them with reserves.

If you want to run a list with Flyers and Reserves I would suggest you take an Autarch in Eldar Primary (2+ reserves), you can then have 3x Crimson Hunters (only 1 Exarch though) and then have a Voidraven or Razorwing. The Razorwing is one of the best anti troop flyers in the game. 4x S6 large blast missiles, 2x disintegrators and a splinter cannon are deadly to almost anything. You can kit it out for AV but dont bother, its a troop killing machine, leave the AV to the Crimson Hunters. This works especially well if you take a ADL with a Comms Relay as you get a 2+ rerollable reserve roll. You can then put the Autarch with a Farseer in a Beastpack with the Baron although you are much less likely to get Fortune that way, you might be better off taking Eldrad in this case and just conga lining the Beasts. Also the Autarch's 2+ works even when he is in reserve so if you like you can start him off the board.

You need a source of Twin Linked, Ignores Cover / Removes Stealth & Shrouded and mainly AP2 to make DE work. Dont spam Posion its pointless and stupid.


Here is my current 1850 Eldar / Dark Eldar list. It might be of some help to you or might not, it works for me and my play style but others will disagree no doubt. There are merits and perils to both lists but they cover most basis very well.

I have added the reasons for each units in Red afterwards, that might help you learn some of the Synergies between the 2 armies.


HQ
2x Farseer - Jetbikes, Singing Spears - Aim here is to get as much Twin Linked as possible, if I roll Doom (re-roll failed to wound rolls), Misfortune (enemy re-rolls successful saves) or Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover) I take it but anything else is swapped to Guide / Prescience
1x Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun, Agoniser, Soul Trap - Mainly here for the Liquifier Gun (ignores cover template and as a tarpit unit for the Wracks
2x Warlock - Jetbikes, Singing Spears - Only taking the Primaris power on Runes of Battle on these so I can remove Stealth / Shrouded


Troops
4x Wracks - Venom (2x Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies) - Venom gives my Farseers & Warlocks Rerolls on Psychic tests and gives the rest of the army Rerolls for Leadership tests.
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon) - Waves Serpents are amazing, nothing more to say here. Dire Avengers are pretty nifty as well.
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon) - As above.
6x Windrider Jetbikes - Ablative Wounds for Farseer, Warlock and Scoring Units
6x Windrider Jetbikes - As above.


Fast Attack
3x Hornets - 2x Pulse Lasers (these are forgeworld models, check with your gaming club if they are allowed) - Probably the most undercosted unit ever, they have Armor 11 at the front so small arms dont do anything and the squad fires 12x S8 AP2 shots at 48"
3x Vyper Jetbikes - 2x Shuriken Cannons - S6 AP5 Rending Shots, basically what Splinter Cannons wish they where. Sadly only 24" Range but they can move 12" so its not a problem.


Heavy Support
3x War Walkers - 2x Star Cannons - Basically for Troop mashing and Glancing Vehicles


Fortifications
1x Skyshield Landing Pad - Hornets & Vypers start on this as they can be a bit squishy without it. If you spread them out correctly then you cant get drop pod assaulted by anything with Melta's etc as they wont fit on the Skyshield.



Hope some of that helped...!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone might have a decent Beastpack list saved. If someone does can you post if for the guy please?

Also one DE army that does work very well is a Coven list. You can essentially give every unit you have FNP or an Invul save making them MUCH more durable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564981.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6564981.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6565327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/581049/6565327.page GMT DE but after playing a lot of games with DE primary or just solo they simply don't work.

Fun yes, competitive, sadly not.

Your list above would probably be okay against some horde lists but any top tier list will rip it to pieces.

My old de list was 3x blasterborn squads in venoms, 3x warrior squads in raiders, 2x ravagers, 1x razorwing as a core.

What looks good on paper rarely is with DE. You need decent synergy, your list doesn't have any I can see.

You have lots of shooting but that's about it.

You can take my advice with a pinch of salt. Best bet is to play a few games with your list. You will quickly see what does and doesn't work.

I will say though or at least give you to think about the following and how you think you'll kill it.

Helldrake spam
Wave Serpents
Marine bike squads
Ovesa star.
Marine drop pod lists.
Necrons in General (armored lists)

Those sort of lists will cause you massive problems.


As I said, pinch of salt. Best bet, grab some dice and toss them.


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If you get turn 1 your opponent (unless they are stupid) will sit out of range of the Lances (as best they can do) or out of LOS and if you don't get turn 1 against any decent list you can expect half your list to disappear very quickly.

I've been tabled turn 2 against Necrons with a similar list to what you have against a very good player.

As I said, looks good on paper but isn't.

Ive just been throwing some dice out of interest and my list above that you don't see as competitive managed to blow up both Ravagers, 2/3 Venoms and their occupants turn 1 without breaking a sweat.

When I let you go first your list managed to kill 2 Vyper Jetbikes.

I love DE, dont get me wrong, they are my favorite Codex to play with and I would love them to be more competitive but trying to spam Venom's and a few Dark Lances doesn't cut it sadly.

You have no CC, no Ignores Cover, no Twin Linking or Rerolls, no Synergy at all, MSU units that when their transport dies will just run off the board, a Farseer who has 3 Jetbikes as his unit which is pretty much useless.

I sound like I am ranting a bit and I am sorry for that but I am trying to point out the issues you will have going forwards.

If you want to run a competitive list take a Beastpack and mostly coven units with Eldar Allies to provide the firepower. DE CC units are some of the best in the game so use them.

Incubi murder anything they get into Combat with that isnt toughness ridiculous.

Grotesques are just amazing.

Beastpacks are probably one of the best units in 40k atm.

Baron Sathonix is the most undercosted unit ever, any DE primary list should have him.

Wracks are a good source of tarpitting and killing MC's (especially Wraith Knights)

Wyches have their uses (like my 9 wyches in a raider last weekend that killed a baneblade top of turn 2 with Haywire Grenades).

Add in the fact you can get all these units in your opponents faces in turn 1 and your laughing.

Dont use DE Transports as units you rely on to do anything, except for Ravagers they are simply transports that will die very quickly. Keep the points down and use the points on something more useful.

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