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Burn Squad [Elites]....................................... 55 points

Veteran: WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Sergeant: WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+

Unit Composition: 1 Sergeant and 4 Veterans

Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Hand Flamer, Laspistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Flak Armour

Special Rules: Scout

Options:
May include up to 5 additional Veterans: + 10 points/model
Any Veteran may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Laspistol: Free
- Hand Flamer: +1 point/model
- Bolt Pistol: +1 point/model
- Shotgun: +1 point/model
One Veteran in three may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Flamer: 5 points
- Meltagun: 10 points
- Plasma Gun: 15 points
One model may take a Vox Caster: 5 points
The Sergeant may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Laspistol: Free
- Hand Flamer: 1 point
- Bolt Pistol: 1 point
- Plasma Pistol: 15 points
- Power Weapon: 15 points
The Sergeant may take Metlabombs: 5 points
The squad may take Carapace Armour: + 30 points
The squad may have Preferred Enemy (Orks): +20 points
The squad may be mounted in a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport*

*Replace this option with Valkyrie for Burn Squads taken as part of an Elysian detachment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6607023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6607023.page GMT
That is a lot of templates. A lot. On the other hand, if they run into something that's got good Toughness or Armour, they're going to flail helplessly and then die. A very specialized unit -- and the Guard has ways of dealing with hordes from much greater distances, e.g. artillery, even including the ability to Ignore Cover.

And how'd you work out costing? IG vets cost ~6 points per man with lasguns and replacing lasguns with a handflamer is at least 5 (since replacing a pair of bolt pistols with a pair of hand flamers cost Seraphim 10). So at 10 ppm, these guys may be a little undercosted.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608329.page GMT
pretty sweet i must say.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608356.page GMT Why is Carapace Armor a flat cost regardless of squad size?
Why is Preferred Enemy (Orks) a thing they can buy? Shouldn't they just start with it?

All in all, I see a 115 point unit that should cost at least double that. This squad will kill 4.4 TERMINATORS with one shooting phase. Adding in a Psyker who can use Divination makes them go from powerful to broken, too. (For about 200 points you can get a mobile unit with 20 Hand Flamers, 4+ armor, and rerolls to wound.)

Even with their fluff, why don't they just use normal flamers? The Hand Flamer variety are supposed to be somewhat rare and venerable, not give-to-the-cleanup-crew weapons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608497.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608497.page GMT
Actually, that probably influenced my making them the same points cost as bolt pistols. ^^;

They're also only S3. Costing them the same as flamers doesn't sit right with me - Seraphim pay extra because they reroll to wound, after all.

However, I can take advice. First drafts are never perfect. Does this look a bit better?

Burn Squad [Elites]....................................... 65 points

Veteran: WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Sergeant: WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+

Unit Composition: 1 Sergeant and 4 Veterans

Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Hand Flamer, Laspistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Flak Armour

Special Rules: Scout, Preferred Enemy (Orks)

Options:
May include up to 5 additional Veterans: + 12 points/model
Any Veteran may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Laspistol: Free
- Hand Flamer: +4 point/model
- Bolt Pistol: +1 point/model
- Shotgun: +1 point/model
One Veteran in three may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Flamer: 5 points
- Meltagun: 10 points
- Plasma Gun: 15 points
One model may take a Vox Caster: 5 points
The Sergeant may exchange their laspistol and/or hand flamer for:
- Laspistol: Free
- Hand Flamer: 4 points
- Bolt Pistol: 1 point
- Plasma Pistol: 15 points
- Power Weapon: 15 points
The Sergeant may take Meltabombs: 5 points
The squad may take Carapace Armour: + 30 points
The squad may be mounted in a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport*

*Replace this option with Valkyrie for Burn Squads taken as part of an Elysian detachment.

Carapace armour is a flat cost because that's how the Guard do things. The command squad can be 5-9 models strong and pays 30 points for carapace armour no matter how many people are in it.

Veterans are now half the price of Burn Veterans, which feels wrong considering they have more than twice the range and are Scoring, and the Burn squad are going to die, really fast, with T3, W1 and only a 5+ save without even Stealth to protect them unless you double the cost of the squad with a chimera.

Preferred Enemy (Orks) is an option rather than a default to represent the fact that while all burn squads are veterans, their job mostly consists of targetting undefended clutches of mushrooms. Taking ones who have actually fought Orks would represent a veteran Burn squad who have been doing the job for a while and survived somehow. Plus, since they mostly have template weapons, the rule doesn't actually do much for them since it only applies to their laspistols or bolt pistols.

So, here's my attempt to reason out the cost, Ovion style (as opposed to my normal GW-style method).

Veteran statline: 6 points/model
- scoring: 1 points/model
- heavy weapon option 1 point/model
- special weapon option 1 point/model
- lasgun 1 point/model
- special character options 0 points/model
- doctrine options 0 points/model
+ hand flamer 5 points/model
+ Scout 1 point/model
+ Preferred Enemy (single, reduced effect) 1 point/model
+ arbitrary tax 3 points/model
= 12 points/model.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608632.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6608632.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6612625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6612625.page GMT any heavy weapon options.

Heavy flamers will go through fuel so much faster than their other weapons that it's just not feasible to equip a long-range patrol unit with them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6613132.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/583430/6613132.page GMT