thanatos67 wrote:
Dat vector strike...

Hilariously good rolling by Frankie to kill those knights. He needed it though-had he not killed off that last one this would have been even rougher to watch. Knights just poo poo all over combat, which is kind of bad for the game in my opinion. I know they have obvious weaknesses, but man their strengths are just as obvious IMO.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Yeah Everyone says knights are relatively balanced but I'm going to have to disagree.

While they aren't that hard to kill outside of combat they are exactly the opposite while in it. Shooting can take out those pretty easily, especially if you have it coming from different facings. They completely neuter Close Combat Armies (Daemons, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos to an extent) that rely on CC for a lot of their anti-AV13/14.

And the problem with this is that people who play armies that have reliable ranged anti-tank will say that they are balanced for their points.
No, no they are not balanced. Any Daemon list (unless it is the Flying Circus and you pick off a knight at a time) would be utterly crushed by any amount of knights. Orks can tie them up, literally nothing more. But stomp attacks are designed to mitigate that. Tyranids would have trouble with them anyway you design a list.
All the while eldar/tau/necrons/deldar/space marines can handle them.

I'm frustrated because they completely murder CC armies. I mean you saw one round of combat from the knights that killed two lords, 3 oblits, and 2-3 spawn from two knights.

I'm going to say that's about roughly 700 points of the Chaos army gone in one phase of the game. That doesn't really fit in in my mind.
And Frankie's anti-tank wasn't really at all in CC. Imagine if he had a majority of his anti-tank brought in CC. He would be boned beyond belief.

Finally, please consider what CC armies have to take down a knight:

and think about the poor armies of close combat that are already getting shafted by this edition the next time you say that imperial knights are balanced.

IamCaboose wrote:

Is this a joke? Knights don't do anything that deathstars don't do already. I'll take facing 3 knights over Seerstars, O'vesastars, and screamerstars anyday. Even the farsun bomb is more broken than knights.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
The question is, if you shoot at two different targets...which one can you assault?

 herpguy wrote:
I mean, I can't see how Tyranids are not completely and utterly boned against a Knight Army, I mean there is really not much they can even do excepy vector striking crones, but those are really not hard to kill, and definitely couldn't kill 3-4 Knights on their own.

 herpguy wrote:
I completely agree with you thisisnotpancho. All these battle reports showing how knights are apparently "balanced" are against armies that seem to be tailored to fight Knights. I'd like to see a battle of Knights vs. Hound Rush, any Tyranids, any Ork army, a CSM army not built around as many obliterators as possible, even Flying Circus will pretty much have to fly around and hope they don't get grounded. Soul Grinders are pretty much built to die against Knights.
I mean, I can't see how Tyranids are not completely and utterly boned against a Knight Army, I mean there is really not much they can even do excepy vector striking crones, but those are really not hard to kill, and definitely couldn't kill 3-4 Knights on their own.

Against a shooty army with plenty of long range AT, Knights do seem balanced, but against armies that do not possess these qualities, their whole list is completely invalidated. It's easy to say daemons can kill one by sending in Be'Lakor, but a 350 point character that after whiffing is pretty much toast come the Knight's swings, and dead if the D blast hits it, that's not a good tradeoff at all.

An army that makes most of your army paperweights without tailoring is very bad.

Could I beat a Knight army? Sure. Could I do it while remaining competitive against other armies? Probably not.

Hm. I don't see your viewpoint to be honest. Because a couple reasons:

You mention Flying Circus. I think actually Flying Circus would do fine against Knights. The Knights can only hope to hit on 6s...with a few Heavy Stubbers here and there? I'll take those odds. I assault, ignore the Ion Shield, gang 2 princes on 1 Knight just to make sure that I don't get slapped by a D, then Knight goes bye bye. I don'te see Knights as unbalanced at all TBH. are some armies going to be hard-countered by them? Yes, but that is the case for just about every army out there

 jy2 wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
The question is, if you shoot at two different targets...which one can you assault?

Any. Super-heavies can assault any target within range (except flyers), even ones that they don't shoot at. So a IK can shoot at Unit #1 with its battle cannon, Unit #2 with its heavy stubber and then charge Unit #3.

 y0disisray wrote:
I did think about the Deff Rolla Reece and I was worried about Death or Glory since that is almost a guarantee destruction of my Battlewagon. I then forgot that you get 2d6 Deff Rolla hits if they Death or Glory so more than likely you're going to trade a Wagon for a Knight.

Don't have my rulebook with me now, but I don't believe you can tank shock a walker nor can it do a DoG. With vehicles vs vehicles, it's a Ram, not a tank shock.

 y0disisray wrote:
Either way it's in the Ork FAQ that you still get the Deff Rolla hits whether you Ram or Tank Shock. Checking the rules for Walkers they cannot make the Death or Glory attack. So effectively this is THE best way for Orks to deal with Knights.

 Reecius wrote:

Any MC that swings first stands good odds of killing it. Hit it with two, and forget it.

D weapons don't auto-kill multi-wound creatures. They average 3 wounds per hit.

thisisnotpancho wrote:

IamCaboose wrote:

Is this a joke? Knights don't do anything that deathstars don't do already. I'll take facing 3 knights over Seerstars, O'vesastars, and screamerstars anyday. Even the farsun bomb is more broken than knights.

It just depends on what army you play how powerful you think the knights are. Yeah, they are balanced against shooting and mixed armies. But can you design any Daemon/Ork/Tyranid list trying to be competitve against other armies and knights? It's few and far between

Seerstars, Screamerstars, and O'vesastars do not wipe your models out without any deviation in combat. Literally nothing can stand up to a knight in close combat barr 2-3 Monstrous creatures charging into one at the same time with higher initiative than the knight and not charging through terrain. That's a lot to ask for for 350 points.

The knights are mostly balanced, but they take one phase completely out of the game for the opponent. And if that's the phase your army relies on to win, there is nothing you can do.


Strength D has no place in competitive 40k. I stand by that opinion