<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Building towards a 2000 point SM army"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Building towards a 2000 point SM army"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Building towards a 2000 point SM army
Primary Detachment - Raven Guard Tactics

HQ
Shrike - 185

Chaplain - 105
Jump Pack

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 200
5 additional SM, 1x Plasma Gun, 1x Combi-plasma, Rhino

Tactical Squad - 195
5 additional SM, 1x Melta Gun, 1x Combi-melta, Rhino

Scout Squad - 135
5 additional Scouts, 1x Power Sword

Scout Squad - 70
5x Camo Cloaks, 5x Sniper Rifles

ELITES
Vanguard Veteran Squad - 195
5x Jump Pack, 4x Power Weapon, 1x Power Fist

Dreadnought - 100

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 195
5 additional SM, 1x Flamer, 1x Power Sword, 1x Melta bombs

Assault Squad - 195
5 additional SM, 1x Flamer, 1x Power Sword, 1x Melta bombs

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad - 210
5 additional SM, 2x Missile Launchers, 2x Lascannon

Stormraven Gunship - 225
Typhoon missile launcher

TOTAL - 2000

Thoughts, opinions, ideas, constructive criticism welcome. Thanks!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6667881.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6667881.page GMT Re:Building towards a 2000 point SM army http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670100.page GMT Building towards a 2000 point SM army RG, but I think there are a few places you could use a little work.

Overall you are very light on anti tank weapons.

HQs are fine.

I take both the special and the heavy in my tac squads, but I’m old fashioned like that. This might be a good spot to add some melta, rather then plasma. At least on one squad. Take advantage of your scout move to scoot up and shoot. It helps mitigate the range issue.

I might take a 5 man scout squad in a LSS rather then 10 CC scouts trying to cross the table.

I’d toss a HB into the snipers, but they work fine as is.

Vanguard have jump packs? If not they need them. I’d keep two bare bones at the front of the unit to eat wounds. No reason for everyone to have a power weapon, they should be able to mulch troops with just a few. If you can scape up 5 points, a melta bomb would be a good buy here.

What’s the dread armed with? And he’s just strolling around on foot? Does not really fit in with the list.

Each of your assault squads could fit another flamer. 20 assault marines is a lot. I know you are playing RG, but these guys are not the most point effective thing in the codex.

I like the raven with the free options. But it works.

Flack missiles are overpriced point sinks. If you want more AA, take more flyers, or an ADL w/quadgun, or the new AA tanks. You can swap the dread for a talon if you can scrape some points together.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670431.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670431.page GMT Building towards a 2000 point SM army

Nevelon wrote:
Overall you are very light on anti tank weapons.

That always seems to be my problem. So getting advice on my list normally helps there.

Nevelon wrote:
I take both the special and the heavy in my tac squads, but I’m old fashioned like that. This might be a good spot to add some melta, rather then plasma. At least on one squad. Take advantage of your scout move to scoot up and shoot. It helps mitigate the range issue.

I don't take the heavy weapons in the Tactical Squads as they'll be on the move a lot and it seems like a waste of points. Switching over to Melta/Combi-meltas is 1 or both squads could shave a few points off.

Nevelon wrote:
I might take a 5 man scout squad in a LSS rather then 10 CC scouts trying to cross the table.

Maybe I'm just stubborn and wanna be a bit more "fluffy" than I need to. I already have the unit painted and done, hate to waste them. Yes, probably not a great usage of points but they're a scoring unit and they could tie up a unit in CC while my other units move into where they need to be.

Nevelon wrote:
Vanguard have jump packs? If not they need them. I’d keep two bare bones at the front of the unit to eat wounds. No reason for everyone to have a power weapon, they should be able to mulch troops with just a few. If you can scape up 5 points, a melta bomb would be a good buy here.

Yes the VV have jump packs, I factored it into the points but forgot to list it. I can see your point 100%. Running them as a 10-man squad with no upgrades is "better" but I already have the models setup that way (trying to stick to WYSIWYG). It's really just about adding a fluffy unit. A 6-man squad jumping out of the Stormraven with a Dreadnought as support is just a WOW! factor I guess.

Nevelon wrote:
What’s the dread armed with? And he’s just strolling around on foot? Does not really fit in with the list.

MM & CCW, standard loadout. Transported by the Stormraven with the VV & Chaplain.

Nevelon wrote:
Flack missiles are overpriced point sinks. If you want more AA, take more flyers, or an ADL w/quadgun, or the new AA tanks. You can swap the dread for a talon if you can scrape some points together.

What do you think I should have the Devastators loaded out with then? I planned to combat squad them too, have 2 different heavy weapons so I can fire 2 of each kind a separate targets if need be.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670508.page GMT Building towards a 2000 point SM army if you are lucky. I can see the dread thematically. But for the most part, you want your AV fire on the table at the start of the game.

2xML, 2xLC is not a bad dev load. It’s primary AV, which you need, but can dump frags and bolters into troops as needed. It’s mostly the flack missile I object to. I personally use devs in an anti horde role. That way the extra guys can contribute bolter fire as well as soaking wounds. But unless you re-jigger your list, you need these guys cracking tanks.

There are a number of ways to get more AV fire into your list.

While tanks aren’t necessarily fluffy, you already have some rhinos rolling around. Taking a pred would not be totally out of line.

TML/HB speeders are good, long range support. Suicide melta also works for cracking hard targets.

Bikes are hot these days. You don’t need to play White Scars to use them.

The flyers. You already have one.

Drop pods. I always thought they hybrid drop list suited the Raven Guard. You have fast moving sneaky stuff start on the table, and then the slow stuff hammers down from orbit. Lets you use stuff like sternguard and dreads better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670579.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670579.page GMT Re:Building towards a 2000 point SM army AV fire, not so good, got ya. But that Stormraven coming in a bit late could be a bit of a surprise.

So the 2x ML w/flakk might be overkill? Keeping it as 2x ML and 2x LC saves me some points (always good). My Devastator Squad is a main source of my AV, not the best, probably but I've always been a fan of them. It all comes down to giving them the best heavy weapons for their role in the army.

Other AV options, I do like the suggestions, just not for me really. I'm not trying to be a snob at all, so if I come off that way I didn't mean to.

Tanks, meh. Rhinos are the biggest "tanks" I'd wanna field. Fluff and all...
Speeder, something to look into in the future. Just another model to buy...
Bikes!!! I ain't no White Scars, we're talking about Raven Guard here!!! (kidding)
Drop Pods, them paired with Sternguard is what I would do. Yet again more to buy...

It's funny how with every army list I've ever posted there is ALWAYS something wrong or missing. But that's just another person's opinion I guess.

When it comes to an army list I'm more worried about if I have my units equipped/upgrade in there right way. More often or not I get people suggesting to add 2-3 different squads, 4 new tanks, change to Drop Pods and so on...I feel like everybody is working for GW, trying to make me buy more!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670925.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6670925.page GMT Building towards a 2000 point SM army
You need to be able to get scoring units to objectives, and keep them there until the end of the game.

Ways to kill:
Heavy armor
Light armor/transports
Monstrous creatures
Flyers
Hordes

Ideally you have overlap and redundancy.

Some units do things better then others, but nothing is useless. When you want to stick to a fluffy list, we have more limitations to deal with. Nothing wrong with that. That’s why I gave a list of options, to find one that works best for you.

It is the nature of this section of the forums to be critical. Every piece of advice is filtered though the opinions and experiences of those giving it. Personally, I try to keep as much of the original spirit of the list, while tweaking it to play a little better on the tabletop. But every list and poster is different. Some people proxy, others are strictly WYSWYG. Some people won’t use certain models due to looks.

If you don’t take my advice, I don’t mind. You might not be happy playing my list anyway. But I do hope our conversation helps you get a new perspective on list building and become a better player, even if you ignore everything I say.

As for buying new models, there is not much for that. It’s the nature of the game. My only real suggestions on that front is to proxy before you purchase, and magnetize where you can.

If you don’t want to pick up anything new, by dropping the flack missiles and using those points to give melta bombs to all your sergeants, you will help patch the AV gap your army has. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6671098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6671098.page GMT Re:Building towards a 2000 point SM army 40K and playing the game itself, I also love "theoryhammer". Go back and forth on forums (in a civil manner) is part of it too.

Fluff does hold you back sometimes but I'm looking to create an army with a vision that I came up with. Part of what makes it fun for me. And you're right, isn't that really the goal anyway?

I try to play WYSIWYG but it's hard, I proxy where I have to as well. And yes, magnets are key. Nearly all my jump packs have magnets so I always use normal backpacks.

I'll edit my original post with an updated list. See how that plays out.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6671178.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6671178.page GMT Re:Building towards a 2000 point SM army
HQ
Shrike - 185

Chaplain - 115
Jump Pack, Teleport Homer

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 220
5 additional SM, Melta Gun, Combi-melta, Missile Launcher w/flakk , Rhino

Tactical Squad - 225
5 additional SM, Plasma Gun, Combi-plasma, Missile Launcher w/flakk, Rhino

Scout Squad - 135
5 additional Scouts, 1x Power Sword, Teleport Homer

ELITES
Terminator Squad - 200

Vanguard Veteran Squad - 220
5 additional veterans, 10x Jump Packs

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 200
5 additional SM, 2x Flamer, 1x Power Sword, Melta bombs

TOTAL - 1500

I'm not able to field my Devastator Squad yet as I won't have the models done by Sunday. The only two units I have that I could field in the Command Squad, just don't see that fitting into a 1500 game, and my AOBR Dreadnought. The Dreadnought could maybe fit if I made some changes. I'd more than likely upgrade it too, so it wouldn't be WYSIWYG, no biggie there.

The way I see it I have about about 70 or so points to work within too. I tacked on extra only because I had the extra points.

-Teleport Homer on the Chaplain is there so when I Deep Strike my Terminators I can do it to the Scouts or Chaplain. Allows me flexibility so I can have them support in more than one area.

-The 2x Missle Launchers w/flakk or there because I plan to combat squad them and have those squads hang back and be my (weak-ass) heavy support. Flakk is there because I have no anti-air anywhere else.

-I could also shave 20 points by ditching the VV squad and just making them into another ASM squad.

-About another 20 points adjusting can be made to special ranged/melee weapons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6684829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6684829.page GMT Building towards a 2000 point SM army HF can find a place. While a full 2xLC terminator squad is very fluffy for RG, I’d like to see at least a pair of TH/SS guys in there. Put them towards the biggest threat when landing, so you don’t get plasma’d off the table as soon as you land.

Combat squadding 5 marines and a flack ML is a horribly point inefficient way to get AA fire into your list You are basically paying 95 points for a single BS4, S7 skyfire shot. If you don’t own any of the better options, it’s something to toss up into the air. But I think I’d rather ignore flyers, and spend those points focusing on scouring my opponent off of the ground base objectives. YMMV

While it’s always a fight between points and efficiency, I’d like to see some more toys on the VV. Even if it’s just a few meltabombs. With the bombs, you could take advantage of the no penalty multiattack and large squad size to have a guy or two slap into a nearby tank to blow it up while the rest of the squad mulches some troops. But I’d definitely put the VV sarge on the top of the list for a power weapon.

Assault squad is fine.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6684899.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6684899.page GMT Re:Building towards a 2000 point SM army
For instance, a tactical squad with plasma & combi-plasma is equipped to deal with 2+ armor targets, but with melta bombs to overlap into anti-vehicle and anti-MC if in a pinch. They are in a rhino which allows them to move fast and safely into position to take advantage of this unit's weakness. There are 2 fire-points so you can get 4 plasma shots from safety if needed, and still on the same target as you were originally targeting. NOT having a heavy weapon is best for them because you will be snapping it all the time. This is an example of what I'm talking about.

That being said, I think you should drop the heavy weapon all together from your tac squads and give melta bombs. I like one melta squad, and one plasma squad.

Following the same advice, here's how I'd modify the remaining units:

Scouts - keep them sneaky and outflank them long-range with cloaks (to take a last turn objective) or deep-strike them in a land speeder storm w/combi-flamer (template weapons are good for models that suck at shooting) and heavy flamer on the speeder and burn infantry. Sure they can charge out of the speeder, but bolters work best on infantry in these two scenarios. Drop the power sword and teleport homer, you won't want the terminators teleporting into terrain right on them where they'll be camping probably anyway... and the goal should be for these guys to combat squad and take/contest objectives spread out across the board... ideally after you've cleared an enemy from them.

Terminators - Honestly, they're gonna die pretty easily within 24" of stuff (or close range to MC's and characters) so I'd use them to take away from an enemy and fortify an objective (as a denial-type unit) and take long-range shots with a cyclone missile launcher. No one is gonna be able to take an out-of-the-way objective from them after they've deep striked down and crippled a small unit sitting there... they won't bother.

Shrike + Vanguard Vets + Chaplain - Use this to smash all their scoring infantry quickly and efficiently. I think this unit can really shine and be very deadly, you just have to make sure it's not up against monstrous creatures, tough characters, or armor. I'd kit it out to rip through blobs and swarms, and survive that type of combat.Try to keep them in combat every turn with a new unit and run it down in their turn. That being said, I'd equip the vanguard vets with a couple lightning claws, a power fist or hammer, and at least one storm shield to tank some nasty wounds (like AP3 overwatch, S8+ shots, etc.) They are expensive, but I feel like if you're committing to them, might as well buy them toys.

Assault Marines - Pretty versatile for tying up big units or placing melta bombs. Expect them to die, and feed them to nasty units while Shrike's "shredding squad" takes care of the rest of their troops.

Those are my thoughts... hope it helps. Sorry it was a bit long

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6685187.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/586812/6685187.page GMT