<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
i would prefer something that can be played more than 1 way with a good mix of useful units to pick from. I like the look of Lizardmen, Dwarfs, or Warriors of Chaos.

I think i may have made the mistake of researching each army a little too much while not knowing enough about the game.

Dwarfs - I like the idea of anti magic drunken little people but kinda worried i would miss out on a big part of the game by picking an army with no magic. I am also worried that they are only any good when used as a defensive shooting army.

Warriors of Chaos - The models look awesome and sound tough as nails just not sure how varied they would be to play or are they completely point at the enemy and march.

Lizardmen - I haven't been able to find that much about these guys but they have cool models, seem to have great magic but alot of useless units? as far as how they play i can't find that much about them.

I know I have said i would rather play something that's versatile but i don't mind so much if they do one thing really well while having a wide choice of units. any help or advice would be awesome =)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6726967.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6726967.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727066.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc Woc/Dwarfs are all good armies.

You have to understand that each army is better at some stuff than others. Otherwise, there wouldn't need to be different armies.

All three of those armies are updated for 8th and have a fair amount of things to do. What kind of models you like is important. What your play style is is important.

From the 500 foot level:

-WoC is pretty offensive and melee-based. You need to get into combat. You can cast spells and can use lots of monsters. Generally elite units with good armor. Have good chariots. Very customizable units because you can put different god marks on even basic troops.
-Dwarfs are more defensive and have great ranged and war machines and solid melee. No magic at all. No monster at all. Fairly slow except for some helicopters. No chariots, no cavalry. Great armor, fairly elite units. Lots of options on heroes/lords and even war machines.
-Lizardmen can be great casters and very solid in melee. Their ranged troops are usually massed poison or some monstrous creatures. They have access to numerous monstrous types on the ground and air. Have access to non-elite troops who can shoot or hold up the enemy. No chariots and their cavalry isn't so good. Probably less customizable than the above two, except for their super casters, who have more options than nearly any caster in the game.

-WoC wants to end the world in the name of the dark gods (evil)
-Dwarfs want to retake their homelands, mine, and mostly keep to themselves (good)
-Lizardmen want to remake the world as it originally was thousands of years ago (good)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727403.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727533.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727533.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
Warriors
+ Hero stat lines on basic soldiers
+ A chaos lord is a match for even a vampire lord
+ Strong armor and number of options - flavors of MI and cavalry
- Restricted list of lores based off mark system
- One of the easiest armies to chaff (no shooting, expensive blocks)

That last con is why WoC isn't point & click. You'll run over other newbs, but play someone who knows how to redirect and you'll chase shadows all game.

Lizards (My army)
+ Best wizard in the game, combining top tier magic with top tier survivability.
+ 3d6 drop highest leadership combined with large target general who can be a magical BSB without restricting magical gear
+ Mixture of 25mm R&F and 20mm skirmish infantry, has a unique look
+ Chariots and war machines that are Monster and Monstrous Beast profiles
- Saurus are let down by Ws3 and I1
- Hammer units are slow, subpar heavy cavalry that require light magic to work
- Large portions of your list will be copy/pasted into other lists

Dwarves
+ Best warmachines
+ Multi purpose BS shooters that can fight
+ High T and AS
+ Strong dispel
- Slowest army in the game, even undead are faster
- No magic
- Game style can be repetitive]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727647.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727647.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727772.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727772.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
Andy06r wrote:
large target general who can be a magical BSB


Slann aren't large targets.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6727803.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
I play lizardmen and would only recommend starting them if you are a man who can see the big picture during a fantasy game. Lizardmen don't have super units that can win you the games, they use there entire army to wear the opponent down. They win late game and every fight you have, requires magic buffs on your units to win.

Hope this help and good luck if you pick lizards]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6734061.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6734061.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
alex87 wrote:
Andy06r wrote:
large target general who can be a magical BSB


Slann aren't large targets.


Mazdamundi is a Large Target-General-BSB combo of amzing-ness for the low low price of 780 points!


I play Lizardmen, so my vote if for them. Their Movement Phase is solid being average (at M4: Saurus, Slann, Bastilladon), above average (at M6: Skinks, Kroxigor, Stegadons) and even flying (Terradons, Ripperdactlys, Cloak of Feathers)!! Their Magic Phase is amazing: Slann are the masters, with the help of Priests, Engines (both Solar and of the Gods) they are hard to top in the casting department. Their Shooting Phase is pretty good. Skinks and their War Beasts do just enough to keep pace with other armies, at least at close range. The lack of true long range shooting is one hefty weakness, though. Their Close Combat is actually quite good. It does, often, require magic support to excel, but Saurus are good at taking on similar type infantry. While Cold One Riders aren't the best cavalry in the game they do get a bad rap; but the power is in the Monsters here. Stegadons and Carnosaurs are absolute terrors to deal with. Deal with war machines early with Terradons/Ripperdactyls or Chameleon Skinks and the Monsters will wreak havoc.
The units are diverse and each can fill several roles. One of the best parts is that the core of the army is almost always the same, big Saurus blocks and Skinks. So once you build that up, the rest of the army can change. This helps keep lists simple and effective. The Lizardmen Battalion is amazing for this reason.


I can't speak about WoC too much. But I can speak about Dwarfs. While they are an entirely infantry based army, they have the tools to really do some damage. Their Movement Phase is probably their weakest. At only M3 (save the Choppers) they are really slow. BUT, they can't be march blocked and have a cheap-ish banner that can give a few units a Vanguard move at the start. They also have a decent Scouting unit in Rangers, that come with all sorts of fun toys. Their Magic Phase, well, they don't have one. Their dispeling is pretty good, but have some must take runes to make it viable. Their Shooting Phase is fantastic. The core units, Thunderers and Quarellers are solid and have some CC options. Their war machines are so great; each being able to take a boat load of useful runes and support from Master Engineers or Grimm (who is amazing). Also, Irondrakes are impossibly good. The Dwarf Close Combat Phase is also very solid. Their characters are solid in CC as defensive, offensive or mixed and have an insane amount of options in runic gear. Their actual CC units are amazing. Longbeards are a super elite unit that is CORE. Hammerers are one of the best infantry in the game. Ironbreakers with an Oath Stone character are an insane anvil/tar pit/ meat grinder. Their biggest strength are the runes, with ones that give Fight in Extra Ranks and 12" Stubborn bubbles, for example. While they lack cavalry and speed overall, Dwarfs really have the stuff to fight with the best of them.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737292.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
Slann badness - overgrown toads too good to touch the ground and can crack planets with the utterance of a single word, giant dinosaurs, DINOSAUR MEN fething WALKING AROUND SMASHING HEADS. BIG JUNGLES FULL OF BIPEDAL DINOSAURS USING SHIELDS AND SWORDS AND MAGIC.

Rules fluctuate, awesome lore and amazing models stay the same!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737519.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737519.page GMT Re:need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737538.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737538.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc
WoC are very boring and limited to getting into close combat as fast as possible.

Dwarfs are similar, they mostly focus on shooting and offer little diversity among their choices.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737662.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6737662.page GMT need help deciding - lizardmen, dwarfs, or woc WoC are the space marines of WHFB. They get regular updates like clockwork, are more heavily represented than any other faction, and are always near the top of the power curve. They're also very point-and-click, despite what others here have said. The "netlist" is so common that the entire meta basically revolves around dealing with it, and the general strategy of the army is "push gak forward and get into combat."

Dwarves are the anti-WoC. Whereas Warriors is just about pushing your army across the table, Dwarfs is about barely moving your models and just rolling the dice for the shooting phase. Then once they do hit your lines you have big blocks of tough, stubborn units that are very hard to shift. It's a castle-and-shoot army. Their new book gave them a bit more flexibility and some stuff to fly around and participate in the movement game, but they're still largely just a gunline army and many consider them quite boring to play, both with and against.

Lizardmen are an interesting beast. Compared to their last book (which was at the top of the power curve) they've been somewhat nerfed, but that's mostly due to the fact that Slann got more expensive and they can't really run two anymore. Which is fine...because they just run one Slann who got a lot better.

There's basically two different types of Lizardmen lists, built around what you decide to use for core. There's the "all skink" list, which fills core with units of 10 skirmishing skinks, and the "all Saurus" core, which is big blocks of saurus that rely on buff magic to do well. The skink list traps up your lines with skinks and makes it impossible for you to do anything (they arrange themselves in waves and flee from charges, bouncing back through their lines so that you just fail charges and can never fight them). The Saurus list lives and dies based on the buffs you get off on them.

Either is then supported stuff that will actually hit stuff. The saurus list tends to use temple guard to bunker the slann and lay on the hurt, while the skinks tends to rely on rippers or dinosaurs to create the pain. Dinosaurs are cannon magnets though, which makes it really easy to pull their teeth with the right kind of list.

Both list tend to run 2-3 "scar vet cowboys" as well, which are cheap hero-level characters on cold ones that are extremely tough and extremely killy.


Of the three I would say that lizards are probably the funnest choice. That said, some people really like the simplicity and hitting power of Warriors. Others play them for 6 months and sell them because of how fething boring they are, while the rest of us silently rejoice because playing warriors is obnoxious and boring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit: Note that of the two lists, the Slann is actually more protected in the cloud of skinks. Templeguard are a big nasty stubborn bunker, but if you throw enough pain at it you'll grind it out and reach the juicy Slann at the centre. 10x10 skirmishing skinks you are NEVER going to get through, and might as well just stop trying and dismantle the teeth instead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6738026.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/589958/6738026.page GMT