<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "barb wire holder"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/8.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net barb wire holder
I could just make it look like concertina wire:



... but coiling that stuff means I'm going to have to make like eight times as much. And if someone comes by and accidentally pushes down on the top, now it's all flattened and re-fluffing it up back up will be a huge pain.

The problem, though, comes from when I want barbed wire to look like this:



Because I can't figure out how to make it work structurally.

Firstly, anything just straight plasticard is out, as tiny pieces of plasticard reaching out in graceful little support struts is going to be more vulnerable to smushing than the concertina wire. On the other hand, if I were to try something like brass rod, I'd have the structural integrity, but no way to mount the wire to the strut. I'd wind the wire around the poles, and then it would all just slide down.

Which means I need something with tiny hooks or tiny holes in it that will give me the structural support of metal. The problem is that I can't think of anything that accurately resembles the things they use in real life like these little guys:



The best I've been able to come up with is to use brass rod, but then glue some little plasticard triangular teeth to the bottom. That way, the brass rod takes the brunt of the damage, but the little teeth on the bottom will help stop the wire from just sliding down. The problem is that either the teeth are good at anchoring the wire, in which case any serious jolt will knock the teeth off the rod, or it wouldn't be good enough at anchoring the wire, in which case I'm going to have to keep messing with it after even relatively minor jolts.

Anyone have any ideas?


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774063.page GMT Re:barb wire holder without weakening structural integrity. Furthermore, it would look exactly like the second image you posted, so it won't look as out of place.

Just out of curiosity - what exactly are you going to be doing with this piece that would cause such catastrophic damage? Just transportation?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774110.page GMT barb wire holder
 Ailaros wrote:
On the other hand, if I were to try something like brass rod, I'd have the structural integrity, but no way to mount the wire to the strut. I'd wind the wire around the poles, and then it would all just slide down.

Soldering iron?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774115.page GMT Re:barb wire holder http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774142.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774142.page GMT barb wire holder
edit: If you're thinking of using the normal paperclip method solder will work fine.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774166.page GMT Re:barb wire holder )]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774196.page GMT barb wire holder
But again - it depends on how delicate the metal is for the wire. It's definitely not a guaranteed best thing, but it might work. Just offering it as a suggestion.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774211.page GMT barb wire holder http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774215.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774215.page GMT barb wire holder pc heat sink and some hefty shears? You get some very thin vanes on some of those babies and you should be able to cut and punch it reasonably easily if its thin enough.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774241.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774241.page GMT Re:barb wire holder ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774260.page GMT barb wire holder
http://www.hobbylinc.com/hobby_and_craft_metal_sheets_metal_strips]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774266.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774266.page GMT barb wire holder
Plenty of flux on your barbed wire and the holder - and you shouldn't have any blobs. I normally use a propane torch as opposed to an iron for this sort of work - no reason not to and the torch is so very much faster.

Twist up your barbed wire out of copper wire. You can use tinned wire if you want a silver look to it - bare wire if you plan on painting and want a rusty look.

Use brass flat stock (at this scale no need to mess around with bending the bracket). Use a square file to file small notches where you want the wire to connect to the bracket. Should only take a couple passes with the corner edge of the file to make a notch

Pinch the brackets in a heavy locking heat resistant clamp (I use Vise Grips...a good bench vise works too). Use something like alligator clips to keep the wire at the notches. Strike up your torch and get the wire and brass toasty, touch some silver solder to it and move on to the next joint. You should be able to do several in a very short period of time. Helps to have some clamps that can help to keep the wire taught while soldering so that the spacing remains consistent. I'll normally have 6 vise grips on the bench at a time. Two for the ends of the wires, 4 holding my brackets. I solder the inner 2 brackets while the outer two are just to maintain the spacing. After the inner two are done, it gets slid down and I line up another 3.

The solder is a very strong joint that remains very flexible. If you don't want to solder - you can drill larger holes and thread the wire through (easy if it is just twisted wire - more difficult if it is actual barbed wire). Most adhesives don't bond very well to metal though - and those that do bond well (epoxy or super glue) are either fairly blobby (epoxy) or very brittle (super glue). Every time I have tried super glue instead of solder, the joint barely lasts long enough to assemble the final product before breaking. With epoxy, the joint is plenty strong - but you will either have to mess with it a bunch to get a clean joint or come back after it has cured with a file to remove the excess adhesive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774300.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774300.page GMT Re:barb wire holder Use some angle iron, cut notches in it, spot of glue over the whole thing (where the wire goes through the notch), easy.

Also, what is the barbed wire made of? Metal or cotton thread?
If metal, use brass angle; if cotton, use Plastruct sections.

Good idea for a terrain piece BTW. Pics when it's finished please?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774335.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774335.page GMT barb wire holder
... Which is the problem. Soldering steel wire onto a brass tube? I might as well just use superglue.

Unless, perhaps, I had more similar metals, or I had a metal that would have a lot more surface area for a bond. But if I had that, I wouldn't have this problem.

@struts. As mentioned, thin pieces of plasticard are going to break. The shear strength of styrene is terrible, which is why you can just score and snap. I'd like to avoid the possibility of it snapping without the scoring first.

I could consider brass, but I guess I'm a tiny bit concerned that it will still sort of bend. Also, basically the only tool I have is an x-acto knife, so I'm not quite certain how well I'll be able to cut the brass, unless it's really, really thin... in which case I have the same problems as plasticard.

@integrity. No, I'm not anticipating anyone sitting on it or anything, but I've played 40k enough to see how beat-up terrain can get. I'm just trying to figure out a way to not have to keep fixing it over and over again.

@etc.

I've had a few other ideas as well, I just wanted to float to keep the pump primed. One is to use a bit of hollow brass tubing, and shove a long steel wire down into it. The wire pops out the top, and I bend it to lie flat with the brass tube along the bottom. Then I can sort of just tie wire onto wire... I think. It might also be incredibly futzy, and I'm not quite certain how it fixes the everything slides down problem.

The other idea was to get thin brass tubing, and then just drill holes through it. Then run the wire through the holes (or, well, run the base wire through, and then add the barbs). The hollowness of it means less drillwork, and I could do it with just my hobby knife. Or could I? Boring through tiny bits of brass wire also seems incredibly futzy.


---

Ah, what about this? I have a thin piece of brass rod, or, in this case, I could almost use steel, like a hacked-down pin (the sewing kind). I put the rod into shape, and then I make a V-shaped bit of plasticard and put it down over the pin (so the metal rests in the pit of the crease). Then I can do whatever I want to the plasticard (notching, drilling, etc.). If you push down on it, the pin will bear the lode, which means the only problem is getting the plasticard to stayed glued to the pin, like the problem was before.

In this case, though, there's more plasticard than just a few little teeth, and it's all a "single" piece of it, instead of a bunch of little pieces that could get ripped off. The best part is that I'd be able to glue the base of the V to the wall itself, so the plasticard couldn't slide down the pin. It could slide up and off, I suppose, but if there's one thing plasticard DOES do well, it's staying attached to other pieces of plasticard that it's glued to.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6774991.page GMT barb wire holder http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775024.page GMT barb wire holder

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775035.page GMT Re:barb wire holder http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775060.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775060.page GMT barb wire holder
It is much easier if you use related metals like brass to brass or brass to copper (but then again, it is much easier to make barbed wire from annealed copper wire as opposed to any alloy that is used for making steel wire...).

If you want to avoid metals (and to be honest if the depth of your toolbox is a hobby knife, that may be best), use oriented polystyrene. It is the same material used to make the clear covers of CD jewel cases. It is extremely rigid and able to be shaped with simple inexpensive tools like emery boards. You can glue it with solvent cements as well (somewhat more resistant to them than regular HIPS formulations).

Acrylic is another option, although gluing acrylic normally requires a different solvent than what you find in regular hobby level solvent cements.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775089.page GMT Re:barb wire holder
Sean_OBrien wrote:The bond is similiar to glue in terms of how it holds, but the molten metal flows into fine scratches in the metal surfaces much better than adhesives do.

Right, but it's still just a better glue.

Unless this is a MUCH better glue, as in, the wire will snap before the hold gives out? I guess I've never tried silver soldering before.

Sean_OBrien wrote:use oriented polystyrene.

Which is still just plasticard.

Well, I guess it's higher impact plasticard, but would a thin strip of it really break les?

Jimsolo wrote:I saw someone once who recommended taking a screen, like a screen for a window, and trimming away a single wire. You can leave little bits of the intersecting wires, which if clipped short enough will look like 'barbs.' It looks pretty good.

I saw this too, and fell completely in love with the idea... briefly.

It looks great at first pass, but when you look at it closely for any length of time, it's pretty obvious that it's a flat ribbon that's been twisted around. If things wind up going from futzy to futzier using the nurgle's rope method, I might re-consider it.

On the plus side, I did just check my mailbox and found my super tiny-gauge steel wire. So I guess it's time to put it on the futzometer and see.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775160.page GMT Re:barb wire holder
 Ailaros wrote:
Sean_OBrien wrote:The bond is similiar to glue in terms of how it holds, but the molten metal flows into fine scratches in the metal surfaces much better than adhesives do.

Right, but it's still just a better glue.

Unless this is a MUCH better glue, as in, the wire will snap before the hold gives out? I guess I've never tried silver soldering before.


Provided that you have properly cleaned the metals and applied adequate heat and flux to get the solder to flow - you are talking about a strength in the 10s of thousands of in/lbs to break the bond. The wire and the brass will fail before the solder joint fails.

I do a lot of brass work - and now a lot of brass and stainless steel work. The only thing I rely on to join those metals together is solder, and although it might not seem like much, the kits I assemble need to be able to survive a derailment off from 5' high bench work with a half dozen railcars falling on top of them. I wouldn't rely on any glue to do that.

Even with regular soldering, unless you have a cold solder joint - the leads of the components generally fail long before the solder joint itself fails.

 Ailaros wrote:

Sean_OBrien wrote:use oriented polystyrene.

Which is still just plasticard.

Well, I guess it's higher impact plasticard, but would a thin strip of it really break les?


Not exactly. Plastics are not all created equally. Remember, polystyrene ranges from white foam cups all the way to the oriented polystyrene used for jewel cases. In no way would I suggest the material properties of the white foam cup are comparable to that of the jewel case. Chemically they are related, but that is the fun bit about plastic is that you can formulate them to do vastly different things. That cup will break with minimal effort, while the OPS can be used to fashion a shank for prison yard fights.

Provided that you cut the lengths with the grain of the material, it is very strong. You can get thin pieces that should not sag at all, even when being manhandled.

For the fun with numbers side of things, although it will vary with the specific formulation, HIPS may have a tensile strength of roughly 3500 psi. OPS starts at around 9000 psi and goes up to around 12000 psi. More to the point, the Young's modulus will determine stiffness (higher equals stiffer). HIPS will be in the 240,000 psi range. OPS will be in the 450,000 psi range.

Yep, a bit more than just plasticard.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6775227.page GMT barb wire holder
 Ailaros wrote:
So, the solder will leak in and around the barbed wire, sure, but what will keep it all connected to the smooth brass rod?

The solder.

Find an old electronic device you don't want. Get the circuit board out. Try and pry off one of the chips. Keep trying. If/when it does come off, look at what part failed first. 99% chance you have a little leg of the chip sticking up out of the solder.

Sean is much better at explaining this though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6776084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/592441/6776084.page GMT