<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
In preparation for attending an upcoming tournament, myself and my friend Sam played a bout of THE WORLDS GREATEST GAME™. I had warned Sam that I was bringing a tournament list, or at least as tournament list as the Fail Kings can get, and he responded by bringing his, well, usual list of Skaven with all the trimmings. I hope that you guys all enjoy this game, which I have written in the old-school photos and text format, and don’t forget to leave any comments or criticism below!

The Armies

I brought a Ramhotep list, taking advantage of the comp allowing special characters.








General – Tomb King, Destroyer of Eternities, Dragonbane Gem, Other Trickster’s Shard
Hierophant – Grand Hierophant Khatep (special character with a staff that lets him re-roll the casting dice, Loremaster Nehekhara)

Ramhotep (special character who gives his own unit Hatred and Frenzy, and one random Construct unit have re-rollable armour saves)

Skeleton Chariots – 6, Banner of Swiftness, Full Command
Skeleton Horse Archers – 6, Banner
Skeleton Archers – 19, Musician, Standard

Tomb Guard – 38, Halberds, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant
Necropolis Knights – 6, Full Command

Casket of Souls (never leave home without one!)



Sam, meanwhile, brought ALL THE FILTH:






General - Grey Seer, some Warpstone Tokens (Cracks Call, Dreaded 13th, some other spells nobody cares about)

Battle Standard Bearer- Storm Banner
Warlock – Doomrocket, some Skaven thing that lets him channel on 5+
Plague Priest on the Plague Furnace thing (he had Wither and some other nasty spell)

Skaven Slaves – 40, some command
Skaven Slaves – 40, some command
Stormvermin – 40, Full Command, Warpfire Thrower team

Plague Monks – 35, Plague Standard

Hellpit Abomination – Regen save, Magic Resistance (probably, since I casketed it once and it made Sam very unhappy)
Doomwheel
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warp Lightning Cannon


For those keeping track at home, under Swedish Comp my list scores a 14.5 while Sam’s scores a mighty 0.5! I didn’t realise until I sat and worked it out just how harshly his list would be comped normally. Wowsa.

Anyway.

The Mission

We rolled and got Meeting Engagement, which is indeed one of the missions that will be played at the tournament. Sam won the roll, and opted for the corner nearest the big tower. We never discussed the terrain, but moved it around to our mutual satisfaction and didn’t use mysterious terrain. As with most GW store tables, our one looked good but was slippery and slightly underfed for terrain after we removed the useless Skull Hill of Skulls. Why did we do this? Well, because we have this strange notion that terrain should actually allow our units to stand up properly on it. Call us crazy.

Sam won the roll, so got to deploy first. He promptly rolled terribly, and had these units start off the table:



That is his Stormvermin, including BSB and Grey Seer, a unit of Slaves and the Hellpit. I was loving it…



This was his deployment in the end. The Plaguefurnace unit deployed next to the Doomwheel, on my right flank. The Skavenslaves deployed in front of the Warp Lightning Cannons in the far corner.



The Plague Monks fancied their chances. Meanwhile, my elation at Sam’s poor luck resulted in me being the victim of nemesis, as I also rolled terribly for which units would be in reserve:



That is my Horse Archers, the Casket of Souls and, worst of all, the Tomb Guard mega-block with my Tomb King and Ramhotep in it. Bummer.



For the rest of my army, I chose to deploy the Snakes strongly against the Plague Monks, as I felt that this was a very favourable matchup for me. The Chariots were assigned to go threaten the Cannons. Meanwhile, Khatep and the Archers stood behind the Snakes, trying to pretend that 19 bow shots would be useful against that many Skaven.



That is a long way to go…



“See those guys? I want to kill those guys.”

I did not steal first turn, and so Sam began the game.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6790431.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6790431.page GMT Re:The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report Skaven turn 1

So our first rules error of the game was Sam not moving his reserve units on at the start of turn 1. I’m not sure why I didn’t remind him, as I was certainly aware of the rule; perhaps I was so fixated on my strategy that it never occurred to me. We only remembered during his shooting phase, which was a bit late, but he moved them on and we quietly ignored the changes that it would have made to the magic phase in particular.



His left flank was bolstered by the arrival of the HPA, which couldn’t move thanks to the order of the movement sub-phases, while the Stormvermin went straight into the tower and camped out. [In the actual tournament he couldn’t have done this – maximum of 30 infantry / 8 monstrous infantry models in a building – but I didn’t think it fair to spring that on him at this point, especially since he isn’t going to the tournament himself.]

Meanwhile the Plague Monks moved forward, wheeling a bit, just far enough to spend the rest of the turn sliding down the untextured slope. The Doomwheel whizzed forward a fair way.



Not much happened in the magic phase, mainly thanks to the Grey Seer being off the table. The shooting phase saw the Cannons blowing the crap out of my poor chariots. :(

The Doomwheel did zap a Plague Monk or three though.

Tomb Kings turn 1



My army started sheepishly drifting on to the table. The Tomb Guard started a slow slog towards the tower, the Casket set up camp behind my Snakes, and the Horse Archers went on my right in order to try redirecting his random movers. Meanwhile the Chariots continued trundling towards the corner.



The Snakes reformed to be four wide – mostly to clear up Khatep’s fire lane towards the Plague Monks, and also to minimise Dangerous Terrain tests. The Archers failed a Swift Reform test, so Khatep went halfway down the unit and then they all stood there and looked stupid.



Magic saw me attempting to cast Vengeance (-d3 move, unit must take dangerous terrain tests) on the Plague Monks, but it was dispelled sadly. On the plus side, I managed to cast Protection on the Snakes, giving them a 5++ ward save.



Finally, I threw a Skullstorm (S4 vortex, the round template you can see sitting in front of Khatep) through the Plague Monk unit, hitting a goodly 14 of them. This resulted in a grand total of one dead, after my terrible rolls and Sam rolling three out of four MR2 saves. Woo.

Shooting saw a couple of Slaves die to the Chariot bows. Woo.

Skaven turn 2



The Hellpit started the turn by rolling triple 2 on the dice, and promptly ran straight off the table. Don’t worry folks, it’ll be back next turn.



The Plague Monks trotted forwards, making rude gestures at the Necropolis Knights. The Doomwheel also went hell for leather this turn, but was still slightly closer to the Plague Monks than my units.



I’m not sure what those dice are for, but I remember them being important. Ho hum. Regardless, I believe that Sam’s main magical effort was to cast Dreaded 13th on my Tomb Guard, which I dispelled.



Both the Cannons shot at the Casket this turn, in large part because of how wonderful Skaven leadership values are, but Sam only did two wounds to it, after the first shot failed to wound at all.



The Skaven shooting woes continued over on my right flank, as the Doomwheel misfired. Apparently the result on the table was that it would now move 4d6 inches every turn. Oh good.

Tomb Kings turn 2

I started my turn as every murderous undead warlord should – with a bevy of charges!



The Chariots declared against the Skaven Slaves, receiving a Doomrocket to the face for their troubles. Unbelievably it actually hit, and removed a whole chariot. :(



Meanwhile the Necropolis Knights went in against the Plague Monks, in the FIGHT OF THE CENTURY.

Everything else shambled forward mainly. I had hopes of the Tomb Guard getting into combat sometime around turn twenty.

My magic phase this turn was really fun. For me. ^_^



I removed the Doomwheel with the Casket. ^_^



The Necropolis Knights were graced with not only Smiting (+2 attacks per model) but also Protection (5++ ward save). I also managed to cast Desert Wind, moving the Archers closer to the Tomb Guard in the hopes of then casting Desert Wind on them next turn. ^_^

In the shooting phase, a couple of Stormvermin got plinked off by the Skeleton Archers. Nobody cared.



The first combat – against the Skaven Slaves – saw the Chariots kill the Engineer and a bunch of Slaves for only one wound back, but predictably the Slaves held on LD10 re-rollable.



The other combat was an absolute slaughter. Sam’s unit lost this many models…




While my unit weathered the storm of five separate types of special attacks from the Plague Furnace and forty-three attacks (WS3, S3, rerolling all to-hit and to-wound rolls) and took a grand total of two wounds. Two! I laughed for about five minutes. Sadly his unit was unbreakable, so we just stayed locked there in combat.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skaven turn 3

Unfortunately, my photographs get a bit patchy at this point, so you’ll have to bear with me.

The Skaven movement consisted of the HPA walking back onto the table, and the Skaven Slave unit behind the tower moving forward a bit.

In magic, the Grey Seer managed to cast Wither on my Snakes, which I let through (I judged that their armour would protect them regardless) while nothing else of note happened.

The shooting phase saw the Cannons once again shoot at my Casket, which was back on full wounds after the Desert Wind of turn 2 had healed it. Combined, they managed to take it down to… one wound. Har har!



In the left combat, my Chariots lost wounds thanks to the Skaven and their static combat res, meaning that I only had one chariot left, on a single wound. 375pts well spent!



The Necropolis Knights, however, continued their rampage by killing the rest of the Monks, killing the Plague Priest, and putting three wounds on the Plague Furnace itself. In return, though the Monks didn’t really get any wounds through, the Furnace itself did better thanks to my Toughness now being 3. The combat was another landslide for the Snakes, who now reformed to the above formation to maximise their attacks against the Furnace.

Tomb Kings turn 3



This is the battlefield after my movement phase. Sorry for the really blurry photograph, I as trying to take them quickly and clearly messed it up a bit. The Tomb Guard continue their Long March. Thanks, Cruddace! :(

The magic phase saw Sam rolling hot, not only dispelling the Casket on the Cannons but also my attempts to cast Smiting (extra attacks) on the Snakes and Desert Wind on my Tomb Guard. I did manage to get Protection (5++ ward) onto the Snakes again, though.



Combat saw the Snakes finally crush the Plague Furnace, and reforming to face towards the Tower, the Slaves and the HPA.



Oh, those poor, stupid, useless Chariots.

Skaven turn 4



First his HPA lumbered towards my Snakes…



…then the Slaves pinned them to the front. Bummer.



In the magic phase, Sam’s fortune continued. He started by casting Crack’s Call on the Snakes, which I declined to dispel. This killed one Snake and two Horse Archers. We had to look at the FAQ to find out what the spell actually did though, because god knows that the Skaven Army Book didn’t tell us!

He then managed to get Dreaded 13th off, as I failed to dispel by two points, and completely decimated sixteen models from Khatep’s unit. No regen saves kids, because that wouldn’t be fair on the poor struggling Grey Seers…




The Cannons once again failed to kill the Casket, and indeed one of them misfired and shot through the other one. It only did two wounds though – consistent, at least. Meanwhile his Warpfire Thrower lobbed hot searing death at my Tomb Guard, but it fell short.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6790521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6790521.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report Tomb Kings turn 4



This is the table at the very start of my turn, before the party started.

I began my turn by charging the Skaven Slaves. The Tomb Guard actually declared a charge on the tower, but rolled a 4 and a 1, so moved 4” towards it. This is exactly as fast as they would have moved anyway, so no harm. For their part, the Horse Archers moved to intercept the Hellpit.



In the magic phase, the Casket got dispelled, but I did manage to get Smiting (+2 attacks per model) onto the Snakes, in order to beaver through the Slaves faster. Otherwise a cheeky casting of Desert Wind got me some Archers back, and moved the Tomb Guard towards the tower. So… very… close…



In the combat phase, the Necropolis Knights once against displayed their party trick of absolutely murdering their opponents. Glorious. The Skaven Slaves held though, because, well, 8th edition.


Skaven turn 5



The Hellpit Abomination charged (randomly, of course) into the Horse Archers.



The other Skaven Slaves unit moved to be exactly one inch in front of the Tomb Guard, and thus ensuring no attempt on the tower would take place this game.


During the magic phase, I allowed Wither to get through, reducing the Snakes to Toughness 2, in order to save dice to protect Khatep. However, Sam managed to get Dreaded 13th off on Khatep’s unit with irresistible force. The outcome was as painful as expected.



To add insult to injury, he got a free unit of Clanrats.



A very surprised Hellpit Abomination watched as the Horse Archers popped from crumble thanks to the Hierophant’s death…



…along with the Casket. Oh dear. Those Tomb Guard over on the right are those that were killed by the Warpfire Thrower, which got a solid hit.



Combat saw the Snakes take one wound, losing a model, while the Slaves lost another two ranks. However, they continued to hold on Stubborn LD10.

Tomb Kings turn 5

I didn’t take any wounds from Crumble, thanks to the LD 10 on the Tomb Guard and effective LD 9 on the Necropolis Knights.

I apparently forgot to photograph it, but the Tomb Guard charged into the Skaven Slaves, trying desperately to justify their massive price tag.

With no more magic or shooting, I proceeded straight to combat.



Losing another wound somehow, the Snakes finished violating the Skaven Slaves, and turned to face the inevitable Hellpit Abomination charge. While running away, the slaves had exploded but done nothing to anyone.



Meanwhile I believe that the Tomb Guard eradicated a good twenty or so of the Skaven Slaves in the other combat. They actually killed so many that the Slaves lost Steadfast, and ran like the chumps that they were.



In the process they exploded all over the Warpfire Thrower, which died, and one of the Tomb Guards who also died. I reformed really wide, in order to minimise the inevitable Warp Lightning Cannon barrage.

Skaven turn 6



The Hellpit charged in along with the summoned Clanrats, making it dark days indeed for the Snakes.

Shooting saw two Cannons fire directly at my Tomb King. Frighteningly I failed the first LoS! roll, but Sam then failed to wound him. Otherwise a couple of Tomb Guards died.



In combat I focused all of my attacks backwards, killing off the Clanrats. However the Hellpit then put so many wounds onto my unit that the last Snake lost its final wound to combat resolution and crumbled away. Such a sad end for such a mighty unit. They will be missed.


Tomb Kings turn 6

I declined to do anything on my turn, as I couldn’t realistically expect to do anything to the Stormvermin in one turn of combat. I mean, I’d have probably killed all ten of his boarding party, but they would then still be Stubborn on LD10 with a reroll, so it seemed mostly pointless. Thus we shook hands and started to add up the points.

Final Scores

The Skaven scored 1,563 victory points.
The Tomb Kings scored 1,168 victory points.

With a difference of 395pts, we had an 11-9 win for the Skaven!

Analysis

I think that my army performed mostly well. Obviously all failures were caused by the machinations of my enemies, the cruel vicissitudes of fate, and by my dice rolling like they hate me.

Necropolis Knights – they absolutely murdered the infantry units that they encountered, and had been seriously weakened (with the lost of four models and 2 toughness) by the time that they were finally crushed by the Hellpit. It is hard to praise them enough, really; they were a rock upon which the Skaven tides were parted, and they looked good while doing it. Love this unit.

Tomb Guard - Thanks to starting off the table, they just didn’t get a chance to do anything. If they had deployed on the line, they would have probably either eaten the Hellpit or gone for the tower and spent a few turns battering the Stormvermin into submission. We can only speculate, sadly.

Skeleton Chariots – Unfortunately these guys disappointed once again. Losing four out of six to artillery was painful, but then someone was going to suffer against that Skaven assemblage. However to then lose combat to Skaven Slaves is super embarrassing, especially for a unit costing 375pts. If I get the models in time, I intend to cut this unit back to four, and instead run another unit of Archers. At least then Khatep will have a backup bunker to use.

Skeleton Archers – this isn’t really a matchup where they can shine, as with no squishy elves or expensive skirmishers to shoot, they didn’t have much impact on the game. They served as a good bunker, until they all died. Sodding Grey Seer.

Skeleton Horse Archers – they moved about, they got in the way. Good times.

The Casket – as always against experienced opponents, this got dispelled whenever it had a good target (such as the Cannons), but it continues to be the best support war machine in the game. Killing the Doomwheel at that particular moment was also absolutely crucial, as it could have totally turned that side of the board around with the flank charge that it was threatening.

Tomb King – Didn’t really get a chance to swing, but he sure gutted those Skaven Slaves good and proper.

Ramhotep – What a champion. Absolutely vital for the Snakes. If only you could pick the target, so that I could also take my beloved Sphinges…

Khatep – I really like this guy. He costs 120pts more than a level 4 of Nehek, but the reroll and the Loremaster are totally worth it. My magic phases are easily twice as good with him around, thanks to my terrible luck being evened out.

So yeah. Thanks for reading guys, and don’t forget to leave some comments below if you enjoyed the report!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791513.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791513.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
2x3 makes two decent harassing units who can shoot, clear chaff, and crash in late-game to tip the combat in your favour.

I think this list could also use a second wizard, or a second casket. Something to give you a bit more ranged teeth?

Either way, great report! I think Skaven are a really tough matchup for TK so you did quite well all considering.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791901.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
While I like your list I really do think you replace the chariots with more snakes lol. They seem like game winners.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791914.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6791914.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6792110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6792110.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I've found I like 2x3 chariots far more than a single unit of 6. S5 is cool and all but the turn after you have 165 points worth of ablative wounds on 18 S3 attacks. Nooooot worth it.

2x3 makes two decent harassing units who can shoot, clear chaff, and crash in late-game to tip the combat in your favour.

I think this list could also use a second wizard, or a second casket. Something to give you a bit more ranged teeth?

Either way, great report! I think Skaven are a really tough matchup for TK so you did quite well all considering.


I think that I read your post over on the other forum ruminating on this issue. I've been using the big Chariot unit for a while. Partly because they are really fun. Also they have a strong psychological impact on the opponent - my opponent shelled them when he should have gone after the Snakes for sure. But you are right - they just don't kill enough to justify their price tag.

I'm planning on instead running 4 chariots in one unit, and then two units of 19 archers. I'm expecting to see more Elves than Warriors, what with the bandwagons riding hot of late. It would also give me another drop, which isn't a bad thing.

Another Wizard or a Casket is tempting, but I'm not sure that I can find the points for them. One of the good things about this is that the Special units are so big and tough that it is quite hard to kill them outright; so I'm leery of reducing them in order to get another ranged item. Perhaps I could get a Tomb Prince instead of the King, but the loss of the DoE would really impact the Tomb Guard's ability to handle monsters. It would save me exactly enough to get another Casket. But.... the King! :(

Thanks for the comments! I keep mentally straying to my new High Elves, but then feel guilty and always end up coming back to the Tombies. Nehek for (un)life!


GimlisonofGloin wrote:Great report, Skaven are always a hard match up even for some of the more powerful 8th ed books.

While I like your list I really do think you replace the chariots with more snakes lol. They seem like game winners.


Thanks! I did indeed feel pleased to not get totally crushed by the Skaven, who seem to have all the tools and few of the targets for us. Sadly the Chariots are Core, while Snakes are Special. If I could, I would! This list only runs about five or ten points above minimum Core, so no savings to be made there :(


Red_Zeke wrote:Really great report. Thanks for all the pictures- one of the clearest photo reports I've read in a long time.


Cheers man. I've always attempted to make my reports look and read like the old White Dwarf reports from when I was a kid, you know, when they were these eight page efforts with loads of analysis and sound tactical decisions mixed in with a funny narrative. The benefits of a forum over a magazine is that I can use a million pictures, where they were limited to one a page.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6792870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6792870.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6797028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6797028.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
As for squishing in double-box, you definitely have room to shave your other units. With rammy's reroll you really don't need that 6th snake, and can easily drop the champion (that way you get +1 CR when you're on your last snake, which can make all the difference).

You could probably drop 3 tomb guard as well, though those points should go into the razor standard instead of the gleaming pennant (-3 to armour doubles the penalty that 1+ saves are taking...totally worth 45 points).

If you're shrinking to 4 chariots then I'd suggest dropping the champion at least off them, if not the musician as well. The horse archers should drop to 5 models too and lose the standard (unless you need it for tournament scenarios you're better off not giving up the +35 victory points).

And honestly...I'm not super stoked on the DoE king. He's cool but he's also kind of gimmicky, and a big unit of razorguard with hatred and frenzy can mulch pretty much anything, monsters included. Double box would hurt a whole heck of a lot more than a single 300 point HKB model in an already very expensive unit, that can only move 4" a turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6797914.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6797914.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
Just a thing about Skavens and building, Skavens hate building for good reasons ... You don't have ranks in a building, that big unit of Stormvermins was Ld7, not 10]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799697.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report MC model by himself. I'm not sure that lots of S5 would cut it by itself - that still lets Demis save on a 3+, after all.

He also ensures that things which might otherwise savage the unit - like the HPA or double Dragon - suddenly start staying away. Thunderstomps are a big problem for infantry blocks, and he is a good way to preventing them from happening.

Saying that, he is certainly the easiest thing to cut out in order to get other stuff. I'll think about it... but since I don't actually own a second casket then that probably isn't on the cards.

Light Council I've never tried. It seems like double Casket is about the same thing as Banishment, though BSB rerolls do rather make it unhappy. That would require quite a radical restructuring as well; the addition of 3 more mages wouldn't be simple!

Oh, and you should never drop the Champion model in the Snakes. He gives you the ability to put him on the flank to soak bad charges, well worth the nominal price. And hell, he is hilarious in challenges. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799719.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799719.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6799823.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 Charles Rampant wrote:
1) Thing is, I'm going to need a Royal in the unit, and my preferences definitely lean towards the King rather than the Prince. There is also the fact that against some opponents (1+ armour saves for sure) I really need to have some juicy HKB and -4 armour saves going on. He can usually be relied on to eliminate a MC model by himself. I'm not sure that lots of S5 would cut it by itself - that still lets Demis save on a 3+, after all.

2) He also ensures that things which might otherwise savage the unit - like the HPA or double Dragon - suddenly start staying away. Thunderstomps are a big problem for infantry blocks, and he is a good way to preventing them from happening.

Saying that, he is certainly the easiest thing to cut out in order to get other stuff. I'll think about it... but since I don't actually own a second casket then that probably isn't on the cards.

3) Light Council I've never tried. It seems like double Casket is about the same thing as Banishment, though BSB rerolls do rather make it unhappy. That would require quite a radical restructuring as well; the addition of 3 more mages wouldn't be simple!

4) Oh, and you should never drop the Champion model in the Snakes. He gives you the ability to put him on the flank to soak bad charges, well worth the nominal price. And hell, he is hilarious in challenges.


1) Honestly, with just Ramhotep in there that unit was doing fine for me. Against the units that really gives them trouble (fast high-attack models like witch elves, stuff with impact hits, cheap rank-and-file) the King doesn't help you much. And honestly, against monsters I've found that frenzied Tomb Guard are just fine. Even WS3+hatred is typically enough. I've done well enough without a royal, but I think just a prince would be fine. Definitely throw Razor Standard onto that unit though. It makes them really mean.

2) Thunderstomps are a problem, but most monsters hit even after I3 tomb guard, who with hatred and frenzy will rip them apart. Just protect their flanks and the unit does fine.

3) Light Council is quite similar to double-casket, save that your big threat can't miscast (nice) and doesn't add the wizard level to casting (not nice). It's a mixed bag. The best part about the light council, though, is that it comes with a bevy of tools to make your snakes and tomb guard hit faster and hit harder. Both are very much appreciated. It's one of the reasons I don't run a prince in my tomb guard: why pay 104-154 points for something I can do with all that magic phase I'm already shelling out for. Timewarp on the snakes, Speed of Light on the tomb guard, and we're off to the races.

4) Perhaps it's that you're running 6 where I run 5, but I quite often find myself with 1 model left just slowly grinding away the enemy, and that +1 combat res is a huge deal. For every combat where I wish I had a champion for challenge shenanigans and flank charges, there are two that I'm glad I had that standard around to let me stick it out for a few extra rounds of combat.

Honestly I'd probably put a champion on if I had the points. It would have meant cutting another tomb guard model though, and my unit was getting pretty anemic as it was. Light councils are expensive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6801739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6801739.page GMT Re:The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6801876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6801876.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
I loved the turn by turn detail and pictures and the in depth analysis at the end is invaluable to someone new to WHFB like me. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6802225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6802225.page GMT Re:The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report

If I wasn't using Khatep, then I'd be tempted by a L4 on Light. But Khatep is so good!


Slipknotzim wrote:THANK YOU this was awsome and you should feel awsome.




Jdredsox wrote:Thanks for the great report.

I loved the turn by turn detail and pictures and the in depth analysis at the end is invaluable to someone new to WHFB like me.


I'm glad to hear that you could follow it easily. I tried to explain what all the spells did as I went, and not simply assume audience knowledge. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6803777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6803777.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 thedarkavenger wrote:
I think you'd like light in this sort of list.

The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.


Can you please illuminate me, to what the Council is?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6808675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6808675.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
Chariots are pretty bad. I've tried them so many different ways I just don't take them any more. Only justifiable way I have found is 3-4 with flaming banner. so what to fill the core with?

Horde of warriors with sword and board, royal, necotect, lvl 2. This is my money maker. This unit does depend on the WS boost, so I skip the DOE and take sword of strife, Dragonhelm and 4+ ward. usually get the ironcurse icon as well. Necrotect who can take a hit. LVL 2 death to use the LD10. My caster usually a lvl 4 nehek and archers follow this unit to the end of the world.

I've been using a big unit of snakes, and like them a lot. Sphinx provide target saturation for my casket and titan. But I aim at his guns first with skuallapults.

Skaven are a tough but very beatable matchup. But I think death magic is key. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6809192.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6809192.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
I think you'd like light in this sort of list.

The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.


Can you please illuminate me, to what the Council is?



Level 4 light, with all the level 1 light mages ever.

Not only does this guarantee that you get the main buffs on your level 4, you also get a ridiculously high strength banishment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6809741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6809741.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
I think you'd like light in this sort of list.

The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.


Can you please illuminate me, to what the Council is?



Level 4 light, with all the level 1 light mages ever.

Not only does this guarantee that you get the main buffs on your level 4, you also get a ridiculously high strength banishment.


Thank you.

Do you by any chance have what a 2500 list would like like/]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811347.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
I think you'd like light in this sort of list.

The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.


Can you please illuminate me, to what the Council is?



Level 4 light, with all the level 1 light mages ever.

Not only does this guarantee that you get the main buffs on your level 4, you also get a ridiculously high strength banishment.


Thank you.

Do you by any chance have what a 2500 list would like like/


Level 4 light, level 4 nehek, 2 caskets, 2 catapults, hierotitan, archers, and 2 units of 6 snakes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811743.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
I think you'd like light in this sort of list.

The council also alleviates the need for DoE, as it provides you with 2d6 Strength 4+X hits. As well as all the buffs.


Can you please illuminate me, to what the Council is?



Level 4 light, with all the level 1 light mages ever.

Not only does this guarantee that you get the main buffs on your level 4, you also get a ridiculously high strength banishment.


Thank you.

Do you by any chance have what a 2500 list would like like/


Level 4 light, level 4 nehek, 2 caskets, 2 catapults, hierotitan, archers, and 2 units of 6 snakes.


Thank you!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811892.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811892.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6811928.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
Jdredsox wrote:
2 caskets? One seemed like more than enough on its own!


Two is a great way of drawing out dice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6812024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6812024.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
Jdredsox wrote:
2 caskets? One seemed like more than enough on its own!


It's easy to dispel one casket, but two casket strains your opponents' dispel ability if you have another threatening spell like Banishment. 4 dice at banishment, 2 at the casket, 2 at the second casket. Since your opponent is probably more concerned by banishment, they'll throw all of their dice at that and let the two caskets through (unless they scroll one, and throw their dice at the caskets). In a 12-dice magic phase that'll let you get some other nice ranged buffs/debuffs off too, like vengeance, net, or pha's protection.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6817878.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6817878.page GMT The Fail Kings march again! Tomb Kings vs Skaven, 2400pts, a photographic report
I play a list similar to this sometimes.

Khatep
Prince with Gw and 2+ magic armor
Ramhotep
Necrotect
Tomb Herald - Banner of Undying Legion

20 skeleton bunker for Khatep
6 Chariots, full command
2x 5 skeleton archer horsemen

8 Snake Surfers, full command
22 Tomb Guard, full command and halberds

Casket


I deploy my snakes in 2 ranks of 4, and add the Tomb Herald and Ramhotep to them. Yes, it slows them down, but as they aren't being healed by your lore attribute, you can fully heal d6+2 models to the unit. He's hard to focus in combat because the snakes are so wide, and he's shoved all the way out to the end.

I deploy the TG either 3 ranks of 7 of in ranks of 5 and add the prince and necrotect.

I find that the extra banner really helps keep them alive from big giant multi-charges that are prone to happening. Yea, a cannon can snipe out the BSB without a LoS, but that's life. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6972358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/593211/6972358.page GMT