Latest posts for the thread "Chaos is gross in 7th Edition"

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Serg Rush — GMT

Okay. So I've read all over this forum and others that Chaos in 7th is terrible with the helldrake nerf. You guys aren't thinking through all the possibilities. CSM Suppliments are AMAZING in 7th. Run Black Legion with Crimson slaughter allies and you can do this Grossness I've listed below.

Black Legion Daemon Prince
(These are are manditory to run right)

Mastery level 3, Spell familiar, Last Memory artifact.
Add whatever else you want. I recommend wings, armor, skull of Ker'geth(eternal warrior), spineshiver( You get +1 initiative daemon weapon that is AP2 cause monsterous creature)
Level 4 Daemon Psycher with rerolls. Your Welcome

2 BL HQ

Socerer
Level 3,

Enjoy your additional warp charges

Spend next to nothing on troops. You will be summoning daemons out the but. Bring cultists

Ally Crimson Slaughter

HQ Sorcerer

Level 3, Spell familiar, Prophet of the Voices (LOLZ IMA DAEMON!)
Level 3 psycher who no longer brain burns while summoning daemon with fail casts rerolls. Perils on ones are hard to do.

Bring 3rd cultists for troops.

Really whatever else you want., your opponent is going to hate you.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

winterman — GMT

Should note that taking Black Legion Primary and Crimson Slaughter in an ally detachment is not legal per the 7ed rulebook. You could take them as two Combined Arms detachments though, but a lot of folks are not allowing that in their tournaments and thus their day to day gaming.

So it really depends on how you and your opponents, play group or TO rules allies and multiple detachments, etc.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Lucarikx — GMT

You do know that a real summoning list will destroy you, right? Y'know, since they have 36+D6 summoning dice after all. I actually think a Thousand Sons list can get more Warp Charges. Arhiman is brutal since he can cast Psychic Shriek 3 times.

I think the best bet for CSM is to take Belakor and put Invis on a unit of Spawn w/ Juggerlord (or something similar). I think more Maulerfiends is good too.

Also, a Sanctic spam GK army is gonna have a field day. Just sayin.

Lucarikx

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

jifel — GMT

Is there something I missed? How does a Sorceror at ML3 generate 4 warp charges?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Serg Rush — GMT

winterman wrote:
Should note that taking Black Legion Primary and Crimson Slaughter in an ally detachment is not legal per the 7ed rulebook. You could take them as two Combined Arms detachments though, but a lot of folks are not allowing that in their tournaments and thus their day to day gaming.

So it really depends on how you and your opponents, play group or TO rules allies and multiple detachments, etc.

Regardless. Run them individually with a secondary level 4 psycher. Buffing their psycher. Summon horrors and heralds. More warp charges.

thats a bunch of hard to peril warp charges on turn one before summoning daemons. CSM now 1 on 1 has the best psychers in the game. A level 4 psycher that you spent next to nothing on. Terrible.

jifel wrote:
Is there something I missed? How does a Sorceror at ML3 generate 4 warp charges?

Sorry. Misinterperetation readings. My bad. I've embarrised myself on the internet. Whoops.

Lucarikx wrote:
You do know that a real summoning list will destroy you, right? Y'know, since they have 36+D6 summoning dice after all. I actually think a Thousand Sons list can get more Warp Charges. Arhiman is brutal since he can cast Psychic Shriek 3 times.

I think the best bet for CSM is to take Belakor and put Invis on a unit of Spawn w/ Juggerlord (or something similar). I think more Maulerfiends is good too.

Also, a Sanctic spam GK army is gonna have a field day. Just sayin.

Lucarikx

Agreed. Specifically designed lists will beat this list. You can talor a list to deal with anything. I'm talking in terms of general strategy. Not competitive. Not to face specific lists. There are a lot of players that think the heldrake nerf killed chaos. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

GoliothOnline — GMT

Serg Rush wrote:
winterman wrote:
Should note that taking Black Legion Primary and Crimson Slaughter in an ally detachment is not legal per the 7ed rulebook. You could take them as two Combined Arms detachments though, but a lot of folks are not allowing that in their tournaments and thus their day to day gaming.

So it really depends on how you and your opponents, play group or TO rules allies and multiple detachments, etc.

Regardless. Run them individually with a secondary level 4 psycher. Buffing their psycher. Summon horrors and heralds. More warp charges.

thats 8-9 warp charges on turn one before summoning daemons. CSM now 1 on 1 has the best psychers in the game. A level 4 psycher that you spent next to nothing on. Terrible.

jifel wrote:
Is there something I missed? How does a Sorceror at ML3 generate 4 warp charges?

How spell familiar works now. Instead of reroll leadership. You get an additional warp charge.

Lucarikx wrote:
You do know that a real summoning list will destroy you, right? Y'know, since they have 36+D6 summoning dice after all. I actually think a Thousand Sons list can get more Warp Charges. Arhiman is brutal since he can cast Psychic Shriek 3 times.

I think the best bet for CSM is to take Belakor and put Invis on a unit of Spawn w/ Juggerlord (or something similar). I think more Maulerfiends is good too.

Also, a Sanctic spam GK army is gonna have a field day. Just sayin.

Lucarikx

Agreed. Specifically designed lists will beat this list. You can talor a list to deal with anything. I'm talking in terms of general strategy. Not competitive. Not to face specific lists. There are a lot of players that think the heldrake nerf killed chaos. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

Citation?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

DarknessEternal — GMT

Serg Rush wrote:

How spell familiar works now. Instead of reroll leadership. You get an additional warp charge.

Familiars are unchanged.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Serg Rush — GMT

Yeah I apologize. I misinterpereted something i read.
Embarrising.

But unchanged familiars is actually even worse. Oh I didn't get that power. It would be a shame if got to reroll.Its also going to very hard to peril on ones.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

Just to be clear, Heldrake nerf didn't kill CSM. CSM was already one foot in the grave and the Heldrake nerf is the shovel pushing dirt on a shallow grave.

So we're not dead because of the Heldrake nerf, but we're hurting pretty good, especially in the Air Combat department, particularly with the Hades Autocannon never getting a rear shot on anything with an equivalent maneuverability.

Or, to scratch out the hyperbole, it'll be maybe 1 turn of VS and Shooting before the Heldrake is rendered ineffective and has to fly off the board for another strafing run.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Azreal13 — GMT

He has me on ignore, but I feel I should mention that TheRedWingArmada is really cross about the recent change to Heldrakes.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

JubbJubbz — GMT

So you got a 400 pt BL prince whose doing the job of one Tz herald. He sure isn't going to be cc'ing anything whilst flying and without shrouded/invis you he won't last long on the ground. This is a really bad waste of points.

Then you got two ML3 sorcs, one of which is only there to feed warp charge to the DP and the other sorc. Now you have roughly 700 points tied up into what 10 warp dice and maleific powers that can do little else. A good roll on the D6 for warp dice and you might get to summon two units a turn. Good luck spending 3 turns just to overcome the handicap you gave yourself. This looks like a really bad tactic for CSM.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

DarknessEternal — GMT

Serg Rush wrote:

But unchanged familiars is actually even worse.

You may want to re-check your math. Spell Familiars make chaos space marine psykers the undisputed champions of using psychic powers in this edition.

For example, they can cast a warp charge 1 power with 1 die 75% of the time. That's a staggering gain of efficiency over everyone else.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Tyrius — GMT

winterman wrote:
Should note that taking Black Legion Primary and Crimson Slaughter in an ally detachment is not legal per the 7ed rulebook. You could take them as two Combined Arms detachments though, but a lot of folks are not allowing that in their tournaments and thus their day to day gaming.

So it really depends on how you and your opponents, play group or TO rules allies and multiple detachments, etc.

LOL. So you know what alot of people are doing throughout the world? If your local group won't allow detachments they are Redacted.

Be careful with word choice; the auto-filters are there as a convenience, but you are still responsible for your word choices. --Janthkin

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

ZebioLizard2 — GMT

JubbJubbz wrote:
So you got a 400 pt BL prince whose doing the job of one Tz herald. He sure isn't going to be cc'ing anything whilst flying and without shrouded/invis you he won't last long on the ground. This is a really bad waste of points.

Then you got two ML3 sorcs, one of which is only there to feed warp charge to the DP and the other sorc. Now you have roughly 700 points tied up into what 10 warp dice and maleific powers that can do little else. A good roll on the D6 for warp dice and you might get to summon two units a turn. Good luck spending 3 turns just to overcome the handicap you gave yourself. This looks like a really bad tactic for CSM.

Have to agree with this, most basic lists would somewhat conquer this list outright.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

RiTides — GMT

I'm hoping most TOs will allows armies to ally with themselves (rather than having to take a second full CAD) to fix this issue.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Tyrius — GMT

Most responses I have seen on different forums is setting a limit to detachments, but not removing detachments completely. In the end if a TO does this they will only draw a crowd of like minded crybabies.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

barnowl — GMT

From what I can tell reading the Chaos stuff, it looks right now like you can legally mix and match CSM, black Legion and Crimson Slaughter in one CAD. I have not spent to much time hammering the legal on that but does look legal upfront as they are all the same faction with no restrictions.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

Is it more was there not a completely duplicate thread on this.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

greyknight12 — GMT

winterman wrote:
Should note that taking Black Legion Primary and Crimson Slaughter in an ally detachment is not legal per the 7ed rulebook. You could take them as two Combined Arms detachments though, but a lot of folks are not allowing that in their tournaments and thus their day to day gaming.

There are people who believe that all the supplements are part of "Faction: Chaos Space Marines" and can actually be taken in the same detachment. I haven't delved into that one enough to really know though.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

SlaveToDorkness — GMT

The BRB explicitly says that any supplements should count all the units from it as part of the faction the book is supplementing.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

ohh my, do we still have cry babies boohooing over the Helldrake?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

insaniak — GMT

zachwho wrote:
ohh my, do we still have cry babies boohooing over the Helldrake?

You get that this sort of response to a discussion pretty much goes out of fashion when you start counting your age in double digits, right?

Please see Dakka's rule #1. People are free to disagree with others' opinions, but there is no call for this sort of response.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

herpguy — GMT

You do realize that if you put more than 1ML into a last memory nova (which you will pretty much have to do) your psyker is removed from play right? With changes to psychic powers that is very likely to happen, even with rerolls. One bad roll and *poof* goes your 400 pt points dump.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

SlaveToDorkness — GMT

On top of the fact that the Memory nova isn't even that powerful.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

ZebioLizard2 — GMT

And that it's really over-costed for what it does.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

winterman — GMT

Tyrius wrote:
Most responses I have seen on different forums is setting a limit to detachments, but not removing detachments completely. In the end if a TO does this they will only draw a crowd of like minded crybabies.

GWs own tournament restricts you to one combined arms detachment one ally detachment and then formations and whatnot. That is the kind of restriction I was referring too because the OPs idea would be disallowed. Lot of other events are doing similar restrictions.

So not really sure what you are going on about.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

DarknessEternal — GMT

herpguy wrote:
You do realize that if you put more than 1ML into a last memory nova (which you will pretty much have to do) your psyker is removed from play right? With changes to psychic powers that is very likely to happen, even with rerolls. One bad roll and *poof* goes your 400 pt points dump.

It's only if the power fails, not if it is used.

Also, you, the player, control how likely such a scenario is.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

MWHistorian — GMT

That's your fix for the CSM dex?
No thanks.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Leth — GMT

I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.

Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.

As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

Leth wrote:
I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.

Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.

As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Tyrius — GMT

winterman wrote:
Tyrius wrote:
Most responses I have seen on different forums is setting a limit to detachments, but not removing detachments completely. In the end if a TO does this they will only draw a crowd of like minded crybabies.

GWs own tournament restricts you to one combined arms detachment one ally detachment and then formations and whatnot. That is the kind of restriction I was referring too because the OPs idea would be disallowed. Lot of other events are doing similar restrictions.

So not really sure what you are going on about.

GW doesn't run any events in the US. So not really sure what you are going on about and hasn't for last few years. Ard' Boyz being the last official GW event run in the US.

http://www.thatsyogarbage.com/games-workshop-cancels-ard-boyz-and-doesnt-even-bother-to-announce-it/
http://www.3plusplus.net/category/ard-boyz/
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/03/40k-wfb-rip-ardboyz.html

Guess you missed the memo.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

On a side note: Has anyone started looking at dollar amounts to pull some of this off?

Dataslates, Supplements, Codex's, models, giving up or putting in Heldrakes, Forgeworld Decimators, etc.

Man, it took me forever to just get a rhino, a Heldrake and two Dark Vengeance worth of Chaos models, plus paints and supplies.

Seriously, wth do you people do that lets you afford such an enormous wargaming budget? @__@ Even if I start small like I've been doing, I couldn't hope to pull off even half of these lists without going bankrupt first, which I think is another reason I've been harping on the Heldrake so much as of late, now that I think of it.

Jeebus. Shiz cray-cray.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

The more I get into the list and building it etc.. the more it seems that taking like taking more than a couple hundred points of pink horrors is the smart thng to do.

I've switched over to going almost 50/50 Telepathy and Summoning and that is working super well. Invisible squads are awesome.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

TheRedWingArmada wrote:
On a side note: Has anyone started looking at dollar amounts to pull some of this off?

Dataslates, Supplements, Codex's, models, giving up or putting in Heldrakes, Forgeworld Decimators, etc.

Man, it took me forever to just get a rhino, a Heldrake and two Dark Vengeance worth of Chaos models, plus paints and supplies.

Seriously, wth do you people do that lets you afford such an enormous wargaming budget? @__@ Even if I start small like I've been doing, I couldn't hope to pull off even half of these
lists without going bankrupt first, which I think is another reason I've been harping on the Heldrake so much as of late, now that I think of it.

Jeebus. Shiz cray-cray.

I've been playing for and collecting for 18+ years, i have alot of stuff. i set a weekly budget, just like a bill, and i stick to that. it just piles up lol.

i also playtest alot, using proxies before i buy, i don't want to waste my money. i also build to a list not necessarily to a collection. once i build that list, that's what I'll play for that edition from that codex. idk that's just me.

also, earlier i called you a crybaby over the Helldrake, i shouldn't have. it does suck, it was good, really good. i played the same list all of 6th using 2 of them, it was khorne themed and i loved it! after 7th dropped, i lost alot of value in that list.

the drakes, my bloodthirster, my khorne princes, hammered!

but looking at the rules for positives, i can see so many good things we've inherited. my happiest being the helbrute is better,and our Walkers in general.

so my apologies for being a donkey cave, i do understand your lament.

pm me if you need any help or ideas looked at!!!

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR, BROTHERS!!!!

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

Yeah, I know I've been going on and on about the Heldrake, but I didn't mean to dismiss everything else in the process. Personally, that's my first Showcase model (which isn't saying much) and it was hard enough just getting him out of reserves before I died, let alone accomplished anything with him. Then that happened. ><

I am a firm believer though that GW will do the right thing and fix the arc again to something like 90 or 180. But then that is "belief" based on absolutely nothing but irrational fuzzy-good feelings.

All of that aside, apology accepted. The internet is known for hiding true intentions, ambitions, emotions and meanings. I enjoy the reconcilation better than the fight, especially if it can be found on common ground.

That said, I think in a few years I'll be in a considerably better position (even though my army got thrashed yesterday [literally]) particularly because my fellow primary fellow players will be of age (my kids) and they'll have a collection to jump in with rather than do what I did at a late age, with no guidance and rampant WAAC players in my neighborhood.

Hence, why I don't go to GW for anything anymore. Even switched my paints from Citadel to Valejo, they were pissing me off so bad. lol

Ref: First game against a Cron player and HE decides a monolith is appropriate. Mind you, I don't have Havocs, and my Chosen were my shooters at the time (before I understood what it took to get into CC and make them work, in spite of their horrible kits).

In conclusion:

LET US SHOW THEM THEY WORSHIP NOTHING MORE THAN A ROTTING CORPSE!!!

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Leth — GMT

TheRedWingArmada wrote:
On a side note: Has anyone started looking at dollar amounts to pull some of this off?

Dataslates, Supplements, Codex's, models, giving up or putting in Heldrakes, Forgeworld Decimators, etc.

Man, it took me forever to just get a rhino, a Heldrake and two Dark Vengeance worth of Chaos models, plus paints and supplies.

Seriously, wth do you people do that lets you afford such an enormous wargaming budget? @__@ Even if I start small like I've been doing, I couldn't hope to pull off even half of these lists without going bankrupt first, which I think is another reason I've been harping on the Heldrake so much as of late, now that I think of it.

Jeebus. Shiz cray-cray.

One, most of those things are optional to buy outside of the main rulebook and the codex. Even then for most of the other stuff it is easy enough to find the rules. Second the heldrake is still good, it is just not the auto take it was before in multiples. 1-2 is still a solid addition to the force.

Also a lot of the dark vengence models can be repurposed and used as many different things to cut costs. You can always buy a bulk of your models second hand and then only buy specific models you want to work with new, new. There are plenty of ways to get into this hobby on a budget, just takes a little more work.

As to the raptors, what made them not be taken was the old need for scoring as well as competeing in slots with the heldrake/spawn. Same problem bikes had as well. Now that the heldrake is not as big of a deal and the mobility to grab objectives is necessary I can see them being useful in a few builds.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

obsidiankatana — GMT

TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Leth wrote:
I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.

Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.

As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

Before, Raptors weren't Heldrakes.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

Leth wrote:

Also a lot of the dark vengence models can be repurposed and used as many different things to cut costs. You can always buy a bulk of your models second hand and then only buy specific models you want to work with new, new. There are plenty of ways to get into this hobby on a budget, just takes a little more work.

I got keds man! And I'm disabled! By definition, I'm broke all the time. XD Looking at like 1 box of something a month if things are going good <--going good being the operative word here.

I'll say this as well: Personally, me and mine are in a bad way that I won't get into because I come here for inspiration and to assuage my PTSD. That aside, we're not always like that and won't be again for a very long time (barring unforeseen tragedy) so whenever I can put my workshop back together, then I guess I'll be more on par again.

Can't believe my friggin CSM's got smashed to bits though. That was a gut punch. @__@ And I'm almost out of glue, I just realized!! >

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Tyrius — GMT

You know what taking heldrakes out of my list did? Freed up 510 points. I have found a replacement in allying daemons and bringing some nurgle daemon princes and I get to use my favorite model.

"Fatty"

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

obsidiankatana wrote:
TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Leth wrote:
I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.

Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.

As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

Before, Raptors weren't Heldrakes.

In a way though, Raptors could be better than Heldrakes. They're small, so they can hide. They can deepstrike + rear armor melta enemy armor. They've also get jetpacks that can get them in and out of combat quickly.

It always bothered me when I'd talk tactics with someone and the one factor they'd always leave out is LOS. And I mean true LOS. Ex: Big problem Chaos is going to have now is the Daemon Prince not being able to charge or do much of anything after it lands. So then land it behind a big rock where no one can draw line of sight, and for that turn its dead in the water, tempt the enemy to "come at me bro," as the kids seem to say these days.

I have to say, thinking in terms of denial and pushing units around the board against their own wishes and thoughts has been the only thing that's kept me in some of my games longer than round 3. Still not saying much, considering what I have, but you get the idea. If I were dealing with top tier supplies and such, I can imagine my games would be even more devastating that way.

Another example of using model size and terrain to your advantage. One strategy I'm looking forward to breaking out is a Vindicator line with Preds, Land Raiders and Rhinos behind it. Let the Vindicators steam forward, take their shots and block LOS on the other vehicles behind that need to get into assault or something. The vehicles in back go untouched, the ones up front out live their usefullness, and you can confer coversaves to the conga line behind you as well. If you can do it right, like I think if you put a pred behind a vindicator, you'd get to shoot all your weapons and be crazy protected thanks to obscured front armor and such. Yet to be tested, but I'm wondering if mechanized lines aren't more effective than they've been played so far.

I'm sure some 4 Star General could point that out though, seeing as how what I'm talking about is similar to the tank formations our current military(s) employ.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Kyutaru — GMT

When the majority of our codex is infantry, making that armored column work is gong to be tricky. Las Predators can be fun though if you are on a map devoid of cover.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

Don't forget the obvious benefit Chaos recieves now with Cursed Earth affecting Obliterators and Defilers.

Oblits were probably one of the better units, having a Chaos Sorcerer w/ Term armour with them casting Cursed earth and summoning Daemons is pretty great, especially since he only has to use a low amount of dice because of the reroll for spell familiar.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

Kyutaru wrote:
When the majority of our codex is infantry, making that armored column work is gong to be tricky. Las Predators can be fun though if you are on a map devoid of cover.

yeah that's what i want, a map devoid of cover so i can have fun with laser preds.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Exergy — GMT

obsidiankatana wrote:
TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Leth wrote:
I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.
Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.
As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

Before, Raptors weren't Heldrakes.

Even so, Raptors arent Bikes.

With the VotLW upgrade, a bike is 21 points, a Raptor is 19 points.
The bike gets guarenteed HoW+reroll charges, T5, relentless, a twinlinked boltgun, turbo boost and the option to jink. They can also be taken in smaller units
The raptor can go over impassible terrain, Deep strike, can be taken in a group of 20, and can climb stairs.

The CSM fast attack remains stacked, with warp talons sitting there saying how much better they are than possessed but still no takers.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

TheRedWingArmada — GMT

Kyutaru wrote:
When the majority of our codex is infantry, making that armored column work is gong to be tricky. Las Predators can be fun though if you are on a map devoid of cover.

Actually, I disagree with the first part about an infantry based army having trouble moving the armored column. While cover will definitely break an armored columns effectiveness (or at least cause it to choose a track) I think the armored column increases the survivability of infantry by forcing enemies to waste their infantry killing shots to glance the vehicles to death.

Anyone remember a thread from Frontline Gaming that was called Tips, Tricks and Dirty Tactics? Great thread, if no one has seen it, and it was what made me believe in Assault Combat again, especially with Chaos being so Close Combat oriented. The one point in particular though that Reecius put out was "How to get around Overwatch?" and he had a follow up there called "Slingshot Engage" which basically made Abbadon move 12 inches into combat some which way or another. It was pretty sneaky.

But about Overwatch and charging into combat: My understanding is that you ever only want to put one guy in LoS with enemy Overwatch, forcing them to waste all of those shots on the one guy. When he dies and your charge range gets reduced (which one has to factor in if they want to make the charge anyways) the rest pretty much run around the corner once the firing stops and rather than Tau ripping apart an entire squad of Dark Vengeance Chosen, he instead eats the Power Ax and the rest eat the Tau.

In the armored column/support "formation" I'm alluding to, this makes that Overwatch cheat even easier to pull off because your infantry are behind the vehicles already out of LoS, and then when the tanks get close enough (or Rhinos/Landraiders), then deploy out the back, hide behind the Rhino with one guy poking his head out, let him eat 20 overwatch shots and then "CHAAAAAAARGE!!!!"

Thoughts?

One more quick thing, since Walkers in Chaos are actually valid for a little while: Can walkers tie up combat? If so, then riding behind a Maulerfiend and letting him take the overwatch could let infantry get in for more kills too. Or Helbrute, w/e. You get the jist.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think a conga line of infantry behind vehicles is the way to go, although you're still grouping up pretty heavy for Barrage and Ordinance shots, not to mention the infamous flying template. XD But still, mitigation and clever planning could make that happen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doubled up because I forgot this:

Exergy wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Leth wrote:
I am seeing either two detachments as the norm, or one combined arms, one ally with self allying allowed.
Chaos has gotten a significant boost across the board with the edition change.
As with everything, open the book back up and start looking at units that you removed as a possibility. Lots of things are looking decent now(raptors are actually not bad now with the scoring changes)

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

Before, Raptors weren't Heldrakes.

Even so, Raptors arent Bikes.

With the VotLW upgrade, a bike is 21 points, a Raptor is 19 points.
The bike gets guarenteed HoW+reroll charges, T5, relentless, a twinlinked boltgun, turbo boost and the option to jink. They can also be taken in smaller units
The raptor can go over impassible terrain, Deep strike, can be taken in a group of 20, and can climb stairs.

The CSM fast attack remains stacked, with warp talons sitting there saying how much better they are than possessed but still no takers.

While bikes are probably more utility, the problem I have with them is that there is that there are those first 2 or 3 turns where the thing you want those bikes to kill isn't quite dead yet and it's doing everything in its power to make sure that doesn't happen. Where as Raptors literally hit the field and nuke a vehicle, and if they're clever about it, have negated LoS for other enemies to avenge their falling (for sake of argument) Leman Russ. Even better is that if you put that backfield threat on them, you could force the enemy to pull away from the front lines to deal with your dedicated vehicle hunters, and thin the lines, which is bad for the Armored Column/Infantry blender I painted the picture of above. >>

Thoughts on this as well?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

ArbitorIan — GMT

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The BRB explicitly says that any supplements should count all the units from it as part of the faction the book is supplementing.

Yup, but unfortunately that's not how supplements work.

You don't 'take a Lord from the Black Legion book''. There's no such unit in the Black Legion book. You take the Lord from the CSM book and if he's in a Black Legion Detachment then he gets the artefacts (along with every other character in the detachment.

The rule in the BRB refers to new units which are in supplements, which is currently only Farsight's buddies. It confirms that, yes, that are part of the Tau Faction, but their own rules require your detachment to be a Farsight Detachhment of the Tau Faction to take them.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Nightlord1987 — GMT

Bikes get HoW yes, but where do you get re-roll charge distance from?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

techsoldaten — GMT

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

I can agree with this, except I wonder what was holding raptors back before? Personally, I always kind of thought of them as a mainstay, even though Fast Attack options seem limited to either Bikes or HelDark.

The issue was they were not scoring and bikers only cost 3 points more. With the additional toughness, you had to ask yourself if the ability to pass over impassable terrain was really worth it.

I am not playing 7th edition, but if I was, I have 73 Raptors right now and would be playing a Raptor spam list. MoS, IoE and Meltas to ruin people's days. Add some psychic powers to buff individual units and you have a new way to play Chaos.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

lets turn this into actual tactics thread.

with the Nerf to the drake, and its overall value dropping (its still decent imo) how are chaos players dealing with enemy fliers now? necron air, and the heavier SM vehicles in particular?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

Fire Raptors.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

fire raptors? wtf are fire raptors?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

winterman — GMT

zachwho wrote:
fire raptors? wtf are fire raptors?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine_Aircraft/FIRE_RAPTOR_GUNSHIP.html

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Nightlord1987 — GMT

I have always just ignored flyers. Most of them waste their time shooting at my Heldrake. If they take down a Drake, the other one coming in just gets angry and spiteful. And if they are targeting infantry they're rarely getting more than 2 Lascannon shots, and a few ap5 pie plates that I can usually ignore with armor saves and cover. I do hate those Necron Death rays though...

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

zachwho wrote:
fire raptors? wtf are fire raptors?

A beefed up Stormraven-like flyer with 4 HPs, 7 TL Str6 AP3 shots and 8 TL Str7 AP4 shots for much flyer-lovin'. Oh, four hellstrikes too. On average, you can strip around 3.4 hullpoints right off the bat, meaning the turn it enters from reserves, you can wreck that Stormraven with relative impunity. If they have two? You can take Armoured Ceramite so you can laugh at other Stormravens that try to Melta you.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Spellbound — GMT

I haven't seen many enemy fliers. With objective secured etc etc the enemies I've been facing can't really afford to take them. They were good at killing some key targets, but now they need more guns.

Plus, if the enemy wants their fliers to score, they have to go into hover mode. Which means the necron fliers can't ever score, and it's not that hard to keep them off of objectives. Other fliers, if you go second, you can make a bid at killing them on the last turn.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Leth — GMT

I feel necrons are going to shift to ghost arks or a mix.

That presents an entirely different set of problems -_-

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

BlaxicanX — GMT

Does the Fire Raptor have official rules yet?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

Leth wrote:
I feel necrons are going to shift to ghost arks or a mix.

That presents an entirely different set of problems -_-

i agree, the OS g.ark spam will be no fun at all!!

those with the dread wraithstar....

just have to hit it from behind like a noisemarine!!!

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

BlaxicanX wrote:
Does the Fire Raptor have official rules yet?

Not anywhere outside of the Experimental Rules for Chaos, unfortunately. SMs get theirs in the 2nd edition of the IA book for Marines. It's a shame, because they replaced the Hellstrikes with similar missiles that aren't Ordnance, which actually makes using them viable. I think they also got cheaper, points-wise.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Godless-Mimicry — GMT

zachwho wrote:
with the Nerf to the drake, and its overall value dropping (its still decent imo) how are chaos players dealing with enemy fliers now? necron air, and the heavier SM vehicles in particular?

The majority of competitive Chaos lists didn't use Drakes for anti-air though, they were used to kill infantry. Chaos has always had an issue with AA, however the new edition does make flyers a little less enticing to take, so that might help.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

A GumyBear — GMT

zachwho wrote:
Leth wrote:
I feel necrons are going to shift to ghost arks or a mix.

That presents an entirely different set of problems -_-

i agree, the OS g.ark spam will be no fun at all!!

those with the dread wraithstar....

just have to hit it from behind like a noisemarine!!!

Well look on the bright side, now you don't have to worry about the wraithstar since now we have the broken CCB overlord of doom!

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

i know that, but it gave us an air presence that i feel we've lost all together. it was able to wreck other aircraft with it's vector strikes on the old damage chart. it's not nearly as feasible now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A GumyBear wrote:
zachwho wrote:
Leth wrote:
I feel necrons are going to shift to ghost arks or a mix.

That presents an entirely different set of problems -_-

i agree, the OS g.ark spam will be no fun at all!!

those with the dread wraithstar....

just have to hit it from behind like a noisemarine!!!

Well look on the bright side, now you don't have to worry about the wraithstar since now we have the broken CCB overlord of doom!

the cron players here are using both....

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Leth — GMT

zachwho wrote:
i know that, but it gave us an air presence that i feel we've lost all together. it was able to wreck other aircraft with it's vector strikes on the old damage chart. it's not nearly as feasible now.

Vector strikes are AP 2, so now combined with the immobilized having a chance to kill the flier, the chance of actually killing them has gone up

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Jancoran — GMT

Daemon Summoning is indeed good times.

So are Vindicare Assassins. Wonder how many are legal...

IG with Precision whooting 50 man blobbs could be painful to the Psyker troop summoning as well. Not sure but it would seem a good use of their potential.

Killing off the minor sorcerers is easier. So probably want to do that then.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

Jancoran wrote:
Daemon Summoning is indeed good times.

No they aren't...

Jancoran wrote:
So are Vindicare Assassins. Wonder how many are legal...

Unless you're shooting tanks, these aren't either.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Furyou Miko — GMT

Chaos are awesome in Seventh, to the point where I'm renaming 7th edition "Thousand Sons Edition".

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

Furyou Miko wrote:
Chaos are awesome in Seventh, to the point where I'm renaming 7th edition "Thousand Sons Edition".

How so? Tsons are better for sure, but that still doesn't mean they're even approaching "good"...

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

SarisKhan — GMT

Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
Chaos are awesome in Seventh, to the point where I'm renaming 7th edition "Thousand Sons Edition".

How so? Tsons are better for sure, but that still doesn't mean they're even approaching "good"...

Sarcasm?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

SarisKhan wrote:
Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
Chaos are awesome in Seventh, to the point where I'm renaming 7th edition "Thousand Sons Edition".

How so? Tsons are better for sure, but that still doesn't mean they're even approaching "good"...

Sarcasm?

It sure would explain a lot!

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Spellbound — GMT

tsons with AP3 bolters, if they get ignores cover?

Spam witchfires with spell familiars for extra shooty goodness?

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

DarknessEternal — GMT

Where are they getting Ignore Cover from?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Extreaminatus — GMT

Divination spells, I think.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

CrownAxe — GMT

Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Extreaminatus — GMT

CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

CrownAxe — GMT

Extreaminatus wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

The point is they aren't getting divination spells

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Veteran of The Long War — GMT

TSons are still garbage. The only thing they got was the Sorcerer's crappy Primaris. but, it is now harder for the sorcerer to cast and more likely to perils. So if anything they got worse.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

The point is they aren't getting divination spells

Truth. Being hopeful and fishing for one divination spell with one Sorcerer in the hopes that one lucky TSons squad can get Ignores Cover is just... well, hopeful. If you want Ignores Cover bolters, ally in LotD.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

obsidiankatana — GMT

Enigwolf wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

The point is they aren't getting divination spells

Truth. Being hopeful and fishing for one divination spell with one Sorcerer in the hopes that one lucky TSons squad can get Ignores Cover is just... well, hopeful. If you want Ignores Cover bolters, ally in LotD.

Ignore cover AP3 bolters. Slight difference.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Spellbound — GMT

Yes, the crimson slaughter sorcerer can get ignores cover bolters. That is who I was referring to.

Of course, he could also get a 4+ invul save power.....aw, wait....

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

obsidiankatana wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

The point is they aren't getting divination spells

Truth. Being hopeful and fishing for one divination spell with one Sorcerer in the hopes that one lucky TSons squad can get Ignores Cover is just... well, hopeful. If you want Ignores Cover bolters, ally in LotD.

Ignore cover AP3 bolters. Slight difference.

Ignore Cover AP3? Heldrake.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Extreaminatus — GMT

Enigwolf wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Extreaminatus wrote:
Divination spells, I think.

Only one sorcerer (with the special wargear from Crimson Slaughter) would get to roll of divination. TKs aren't rolling on div at all

Just answerin' the man's question.

"How would someone get ignores cover with Thousand Sons?"

"Divination spells."

The point is they aren't getting divination spells

Truth. Being hopeful and fishing for one divination spell with one Sorcerer in the hopes that one lucky TSons squad can get Ignores Cover is just... well, hopeful. If you want Ignores Cover bolters, ally in LotD.

Ignore cover AP3 bolters. Slight difference.

Ignore Cover AP3? Heldrake.

Doom Sirens!

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

I've been having crazy good success with my Daemon Summoning army and Combined Arms armies with Chaos Space Marines.

I've not got it to the level it needs to be need to purchase more Daemons :( .

The only game I've hardcore lost is with Maelstrom missions and Wave Serpent spam is difficult to deal with and even those are pretty close. It's just hard to deal with something that moves like they do and is able to instantly grab objectives. In normal Eternal missions, I've yet to have a bad game with the Chaos Daemon army mixed with Chaos Space Marines.

They're not even that like difficult and long anymore at first it was a long time but once you know what your doing it's basically just the shooting phase.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

What's the list you're running? I think CD/CSM have a lot of potential in seventh actually. Eldar are always going to be a pain though, but they were in sixth. We need to find ways to catch them and punch them in the face. Maulerfiends, slaanesh grinders and screamers are a good start, with daemonettes for troops.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

KOS - Level 3
3 Heralds of Tzeentch , Grimoire, Portaglyph, 2 Discs @ Level 3
1 Herald of Slaanesh on Steed @ Level 2

Troops
3 to 4 Squads of Blue Horrors w/ Muscicians usually make these guys 13 to 14

Fast Attack
Steeds of Slaanesh w/ Icon
Screamers usually not a large squad

H. Support
Daemon Prince , Slaanesh, Level 2 - 3
Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

CSM Allies
Sorcerer w/ spell familiar and term Armour usually or Prophet of voices going full Tzeentch and getting a Disc so get get the hell out of LOS

Troops
Chaos Cultists

H. Support
Obliterators x 2

Aegis Defense Line w/ Comm Relay

This is been working really well as I've enjoyed it , yeah it may be not that crazy competitive but I've had a lot of fun with it. Still building out my Chaos Daemons so I'm limited a bit on some issues. Around 26 Warp Charge which is plenty and fine.

Also sometimes just go the complete opposite and Ally Daemons with CSM and usually go Belakor a Beast of a Chaos Sorcerer and just try and maximize my Warp charge.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

obsidiankatana — GMT

Enigwolf wrote:
Ignore Cover AP3? Heldrake.

A week ago the Heldrake was garbage. Dakka is fickle.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

It's still really good I dunno why people think it's Garbage , I mean it's a straight beast. yeah it lost some rules , but that just made it overpowered now it's just really really good and honestly other than bikers like the only choice that CSM have in the FA.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

JGrand — GMT

It's still really good I dunno why people think it's Garbage , I mean it's a straight beast. yeah it lost some rules , but that just made it overpowered now it's just really really good and honestly other than bikers like the only choice that CSM have in the FA.

Spawn? You are forgetting perhaps the best unit in the slot.

Re:Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Hollismason — GMT

I always forget about Spawn , I don't really use them that often and should. I have used them though. I should use them more, but oh wells.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

obsidiankatana wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
Ignore Cover AP3? Heldrake.

A week ago the Heldrake was garbage. Dakka is fickle.

I've never ever said that the Heldrake was garbage. Not when it first came out, and certainly not after the "nerf" where it became a hull-mounted weapon and not a turret weapon. I've always flown my Heldrakes that way, even when it was FAQ'd otherwise in 6th. I think it's fair, and balanced that way.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

NuggzTheNinja — GMT

Vomikron Noxis wrote:
What's the list you're running? I think CD/CSM have a lot of potential in seventh actually. Eldar are always going to be a pain though, but they were in sixth. We need to find ways to catch them and punch them in the face. Maulerfiends, slaanesh grinders and screamers are a good start, with daemonettes for troops.

I'm thinking a dual Spawn-Star w/ Maulerfiend backup could be a nasty counter to annoying skimmers.

Go something like 2x Lord w/ MoN, Blight Grenades, Fist, Claw, Bike, Sigil (170 ea)
2x 5 Nurgle Spawn

2x Maulerfiends

Now you're at 950 points. Add in a couple Rhinos with Plague Marines, maybe another Maulerfiend or a Forgefiend and you're golden.

Each of the Spawn + Lord units clocks in at 350 on the dot. Throwing 2 of them in a 1,500 point list is completely doable.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

I've been playing with a similar idea actually. The issue is that you have no psychic ability there and it seems a shame to waste that potential (invisible nurgle spawn ftw). However, swapping out the lords for sorcerers means you can't take PMs as troops and you lose the pure beatstick potential of the lord. Tough choice to be sure. It may be worth ignoring the psychic trickery altogether and going all out rush.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

karandras15 — GMT

We almost have to take rhinos due to speed and spamming when playing maelstrom of war...
Unless the plan is to summon your butt off

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

karandras15 wrote:
We almost have to take rhinos due to speed and spamming when playing maelstrom of war...
Unless the plan is to summon your butt off

But isn't that most armies in 7th ed? Where speed and mobility are needed now?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

ArbitorIan — GMT

Been asking this on an army building thread, but what about Helbrutes? Does anyone have any cunning uses for them now that vehicles are tougher and Smash is nerfed?

Maybe with the Dataslate rules?

500pts - 5x Dual CCW Dreads in a unit running across the board, and taking advantage of glances to get some models further than others (chooses Crazed results).
300pts - 3x Multimelta Dreads with IWND deep striking into the enemy deployment zone on the same turn.

Something like

- Warpsmith
- 2 Heldrakes
- Forgefiend
- Obliterators
- 5 Running Helbrutes
- Cultists?? Cheap CSM??

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Godless-Mimicry — GMT

ArbitorIan wrote:
Been asking this on an army building thread, but what about Helbrutes? Does anyone have any cunning uses for them now that vehicles are tougher and Smash is nerfed?

For me the real reason Helbrutes always were a no-go is the Crazed rule. As a rule of thumb for competitive play at least, you want units that perform consistently enough, and one that unpredictable usually gets the shelf. While it got more durable, Crazed hasn't changed unfortunately.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Ventiscogreen — GMT

Chaos benefited this codex, and Emperor knows the poor sods deserved it. They went from drake/bike mono-build to BUILD ALL THE THINGS thanks to the changes to vehicle durability. Maulerfiends are a lot better now, and will do unpretty things to your everything. Forgefiends can also do some awful things, and a possessed Vindicator is a bitch to deal with.

Chaos Demons got better, and if you don't bring a template weapon you WILL be swarmed. The Spam is a double edged sword though, since you can still hold the objectives against the demons and win, and turn it to an advantage in killpoint games. If I hadn't jacked up with my crisis suits last game I played against a demon factory, I would have won for the killpoints I kept getting shooting the newly summoned demons.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Leth — GMT

I might use one of the helbrute formations if it didnt use up the ally slot preventing me from taking mah daemons.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

Leth wrote:
I might use one of the helbrute formations if it didnt use up the ally slot preventing me from taking mah daemons.

Huh? Where has this limit come from?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Leth wrote:
I might use one of the helbrute formations if it didnt use up the ally slot preventing me from taking mah daemons.

Huh? Where has this limit come from?

he's referring to the BAO and NOVA tournament restrictions that say you can have one ally or formation. alot of groups and tournaments usually follow suit and do the same. it helps prevent list building abuse and spam shenanigans. my local group does the same.

I've faced the same delima, helbrute formation or allies earlier in 7th when list building, but I've since swapped the primary to demons with csm allies anyways.

but man, being able to take a helbrute formation with an ally would be soooooo sweet!! maybe I'll talk someone into a 2.5k game and see if they'll let me!!

I'm really enjoying chaos in 7th, and I've recently found out how amazing fast slaanesh demons are, and a squad of demonettes with a beguiled herold and invisibility is possibly my favorite unit in the game right now.

its pretty shocking, being such a fan of khorne for the last 19 years, how good slaanesh demons are.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

Ah I see. Well that makes sense if your group chooses to follow those restrictions. It's worth being clear though that a lot don't really pay attention to what a bunch of TOs are doing half a world away... (Just my experience in my area of course, yours may well be very different so go with that).

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

Oooh absolutely, every group is different, i just didn't want anyone to think that was a BRB ruling. its absolutely not.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Vomikron Noxis — GMT

Yeh good shout, thanks for clearing it up!

Also, on the subject of slaanesh daemons: they're frighteningly quick! With the nerf to FMC spam, they might be the way to go...

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

two units I've been considering, are beasts of nurgle and nurglngs.

beasts are somewhat fast, and seem very tough. they're attention seeker rule make them seem like the perfect counter charge unit in an assault army.

nurglings on paper look to be good OS choices for as cheap as they are, but i don't have experience with either, anyone have some advice for these two?

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

ArbitorIan — GMT

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
ArbitorIan wrote:
Been asking this on an army building thread, but what about Helbrutes? Does anyone have any cunning uses for them now that vehicles are tougher and Smash is nerfed?

For me the real reason Helbrutes always were a no-go is the Crazed rule. As a rule of thumb for competitive play at least, you want units that perform consistently enough, and one that unpredictable usually gets the shelf. While it got more durable, Crazed hasn't changed unfortunately.

Yeah, this is why I was leaning towards the Murderpack - every time you take a HP of damage you get to choose a bonus. No randomness.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

zachwho wrote:

nurglings on paper look to be good OS choices for as cheap as they are, but i don't have experience with either, anyone have some advice for these two?

I was thinking the same thing. For less than 100 points, you get a ton of easy-to-hide bases with lots of wounds.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

i guess no one has used them yet, lol.

I'll get some games with them in, and let y'all know.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Spaz431 — GMT

To redwingarmada & zachwho:
As a player who at first lamented the nerf bat breaking the wings off my first space chicken *BUKAWK*, i know the pain. But believe me, unless you are aiming for super competitive build, the drake has become a mainstay in my list, now in 7th more than ever. In all honesty (no abbreviation here), I have, since 7th dropped, bought and painted 2 more. I am only playing the maelstrom of war missions. FUN!!! One of the trickiest moves that several of my opponnents, including GW employees, have seen me pull is go into HOVER to take objectives. DISCLAIMER: This Is A Gamble Move. I have lost a drake or two to this trick. I have also vector struck a flier out of hover and killed it.
The list I have played has not changed since the drop is: 2000 points even.
2 Dark Apostles, Nurgle, Gift of Mutation
2 Nurgle Marine Squad, plasma & combi plas
1 20 man cultist blob
2 baledrake
1 boltdrake
1 mauler
1 ectoplasma forger
And my Anti-Paladin Chaos Knight

I have lost my anti-paladin only in fights with other paladins and a stompa in EPIC COMBAT. But when I lose him, they have lost theirs to the resulting explosion.

But back on topic, yes, my drakes may have to fly off board some turns. But my opponents have started to dread my monstrous hoard.

ALSO, to the poster who asked how I can afford so much. I sell appliances as a commission sales person. I look at what's coming out next, and work to be as polite and helpful to customers, so I can be a jerk to my buddies on the gaming table.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

zachwho — GMT

i am well beyond the initial wave of omg they nerfed my stuffs!! i think its good, not great, and it still scares people.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Enigwolf — GMT

Back to Heldrakes again? I think we should create our own version of Godwin's Law...

Dakka's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of discussing Heldrakes and GW failures increases. Exponentially.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Spaz431 — GMT

In my defense, enig, by the time I found this post, there were already 4 pages, and I wanted to read and not just assume what people were saying.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Badablack — GMT

I've been running Thousand Sons lists with double sorcs and tzeentch daemon allies and it's doing pretty good. Pump out daemons with summoning and portalglyphs to power up marine spells and hold objectives, and the Thousand Sons tear things up now. Firestorm for hordes, Doombolt for elites. Then rapid fire ap3. And then assaults with invisible units armed with force axes and 4+ invulns. Probably the best 1k sons have been since the first chaos codex.

Chaos is gross in 7th Edition

Ignatius — GMT

My mono Khorne mostly Berzerker chaos army is still going to get its backside handed to it whenever I play a semi competitive game unfortunately