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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Nerfs for marine & chaos units that are already bad."]]></title>
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		<description><![CDATA[Latest messages posted in the thread "Nerfs for marine & chaos units that are already bad."]]></description>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ When bad units get new incarnations, they are usually the same unit with an ineffectual bonus.  This happens with marine units especially, since they have so many codexes and there is no way to radically change one book with all of the other ones still using the previous paradigm.  <br /> <br /> MARINE CAPTAINS: everyone knows you are a joke, marine captain.  In the last codex, you were weak and people didn't use you.  Now they can spend 70 points on relics to make you good at a marginal phase of the game, also you always have a bike.<br /> <br /> You're nerfed!  You are down to ws5 and two wounds.  You cannot take terminator armor. <br /> <br /> Wolf Lords are fine.  You, however, have been demoted to wolf guard battle leader.  You were pretty pointless before, so now you need have some leadership effect.  Lots of people think you should change the force org more than just for bikes, but I think that is dumb.  I always thought you should do something special like be able to target units for the rest of the army to get a bonus against, but since there are already warlord traits to show leadership, you should just get to roll on two different tables, if you want. <br /> <br /> It's pretty dumb that the chapter master and terminator captain have different stats, so when people want terminator captains they can just take a chapter master.<br /> <br /> <br /> CHAOS WARPSMITHS:  for years everyone wanted to know where the chaos techmarines and chaos apothecaries were.  Now one of those things is one of the 17000 choices that chaos have for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> units, and since it is in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> it has a bunch of dumb rules.  If you are ever going to matter, you are going to have to be demoted to a slot that is less competitive, like... troops.  That's right, you are not even a unit anymore.  On the other hand, you get to lead your own unit, all by yourself.<br /> <br /> Champions in regular units of troops section chaos space marines may take one of the following items of special equipment:<br /> <br /> Servo Arm: gives you a powerfist attack and the bolster defences special rule.  You're not a techmarine, you're an Iron-warriors style siege engineer.<br /> <br /> Combat Drugs: or you can be an apothecary!  start of movement, choose any number of abilities from preferred enemy, +1 strength, +1 ballistic skill, fleet of foot, or feel no pain, then roll a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span>. If the result is equal to or less than the number of abilities chosen, the unit takes the die result in wounds, with no saves allowed.<br /> <br /> Thrall wizards: you become a ml1 psyker.  You can take up to four thrall wizards, and remove any number of them from play to generate the same number of warp charges.<br /> <br /> Also: since you are a champion, you get ws5 and ld10 by default, and the squad <i>has</i> to take you, but you cost 45 points base.  Since bolster defences is useless for a unit that is not good at being in a gunline, the basic chaos marine unit can take one special/heavy at six models, two special/heavies at nine models, and three! special/heavies at eleven models.  Rhinos can also have pintle heavy bolters.<br /> <br /> Also there is no way to take marks for this unit because look, it is really customizable now.<br /> <br /> <br /> CHAOS WARP TALONS<br /> <br /> You have the cheapest lightning claws anywhere, but you are still really bad.  So, you don't get lightning claws anymore, just claws.  You are demoted to Shred, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>ap</span> -.  You also can hit and run, even if you are not in combat.  Hit and run works when units aren't in combat, now.<br /> <br /> <br /> MARINE LIBRARIANS:<br /> <br /> You are so good that nobody takes anything else.  Now, you have to be taken the same way as a techmarine is, i.e. one per <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>, and techmarines are taken one per vehicle that has no transport capacity.  You also have ld9.  So do chaplains.<br /> <br /> <br /> If someone really wants an <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> librarian, they can take a chief librarian that has the same profile as Corbulo/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(392);'>WGBL</span> and is nonsense expensive.  <br /> <br /> <br /> EVERY ARMY THERE IS: there are about two weapon skills in existence, and no matter which one you have everyone hits you on 4+.  Tau are ws1, guardsmen and termagaunts are ws2, guardians, necron warriors, veteran guard, and ork boyz are ws3, aspect warriors, nobs, and marines are ws4.<br /> <br /> <br /> POWER ARMOR:  There really isn't any such thing as an antipersonnel gun used in this game.  Power armor is 4+ with a +1 to all rolls, and marines have <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(265);'>fnp</span>.  <br /> <br /> <br /> LIGHTNING CLAWS: unless you are a special character - or like, at least an <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> -  only models in tactical dreadnought armor can take these. The entire point of lightning claws is that your armor is such a heavy counterweight and your strength is so enhanced you can put a sword on every finger.  You can't normally have lightning claws unless you have relentless.<br /> <br /> <br /> STERNGUARD: special issue ammunition is insulting.  If they didn't have it, sternguard would have the same shooting as a tactical squad for more points, which is nonsense for veterans.  You don't get it anymore, you have to actually be skilled now, sternguard.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> EVERY UNIT THERE IS:  nerfed.<br />  <br /> <br /> <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 20 Jun 2014 18:40:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ pelicaniforce]]></author>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you are trying to do here? Could you please explain?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 22 Jun 2014 16:50:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sgt_Smudge]]></author>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Looks all good to me.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:34:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ GoonBandito]]></author>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Sorry I don't get the point of this, why nerf already bad units? Shouldn't the objective be to make all units relatively good instead?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:50:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Archon_Zarbyrn]]></author>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I think it's a joke...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:40:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ spiralingcadaver]]></author>
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				<title>Nerfs for marine &amp; chaos units that are already bad.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I read through all of that and all i got was more confusion....Please clarify]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:33:04]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Drogga]]></author>
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